Sony Files Patent on PS2 Emulator
Source: Tom's Guide US | Keywords: PlayStation, Console, Patent, Emulator | Themes: Software
Sony filed a patent that looks to bring backwards-compatibility back to the PlayStation 3.
If a recent article posted by Siliconera holds true, Sony plans to re-fit the PlayStation 3 (PS3) console with the ability to emulate PlayStation 2 (PS2) games once again. Earlier models of the PS3 (20 GB and 60 GB NTSC) originally featured the PS2's Emotion Engine processor, enabling the newer model the ability to play older games without the need for software emulation. However, to cut down the overwhelming cost of the PS3, Sony decided to remove the chip and attempt software emulation on two models (60 GB PAL, 80 GB NTSC). Those who bought the newer PS3 console without hardware or software emulation have been forced to pull out the older PS2 from the closet, or pick up a fresh new PS2 Slim for roughly $100.
But a patent filed by Sony back in December 2008 could change all that, as it describes a method that would allow the PS3's Cell processor to translate code from the PS2's Emotion Engine processor. Apparently, this process will be unlike the previous emulator that was limited to playing certain games. Rather, the new method will serve as a complete replicator of the PS2 processor. This would mean that every existing PlayStation 3 console will be backwards compatible. It's also speculated that this emulator will be built into the rumored PlayStation 3 Slim, and will more than likely be offered as a system update for all current PS3 owners.
The big question to ask Sony is why it didn't install this emulator in the beginning. And what exactly is the difference between the old emulator and the one used in the patent? Siliconera explained it as: the old emulator acted like a translator, as if someone converted English to Japanese twenty-four hours a day, non-stop. The new process instead, translates a set of words and then stores them in a 'dictionary that can be referenced.' In this case, it will translate instructions based on the Emotion Engine chip into referenced chunks.
Currently PS3 owners can purchase, download and play digital versions of PlayStation (One) games through the PlayStation Store. This may also be the case for PS2 games in the near future rather than allowing gamers to play the older disks. Of course, everything is mere speculation at this point--despite the patent filing--until Sony comes forward with an official announcement.
-
Previous News Article
China Delaying Green Dam Software -
Next News Article
Doom Resurrection Now on iTunes...
Pcsx2 FTW!
It's definitely nothing like the pc emulator I hope.
Probably the patent only spans over the PS3.
Pcsx2 FTW!
^ +1
(I just need to get a working game controller for my PC though...)
^ +1(I just need to get a working game controller for my PC though...)
logitech sells a few that are similar, cheap and USB (no vibrate at least for the model i have)
PC Emulated PS2 games look sooooo much better then native PS2 as well..
you can play real ps1 discs as as well as the digital download versions in the ps3, hopefully the ps3 still supports the ps2 discs (they were just dvd right?) so that it will be able to play our real games and not just the digital versions. I think there would be less negativity towards the ps3 as a gaming system if it was fully backwards compatible with all playstation games
Yeah i have the logitech controller, its like $20.
I use to play with the keyboard, that was harddd lol.
This should have been done right, in the first place! Took sony long enough to realize that, with sales of PS2 still high, it would be smart to to offer backwards compatibility with PS3.
I've been so confused about the whole backward compatible with the PS3. Are the PS3 being made now backward compatible for PS2 games or are they saying that you Sony will have a program that you can download from their online virtual world that will allow PS2 game play?
Sony, Who cares! Just stay focussed and release GT5!
I do realize its too late to discuss the merits of removing the Emotion Engine processor from PS3, but now that PS2 CPU is about 9 years old, doesn't it cost next to nothing to make and integrate into the PS3?
If so, then removing the EE CPU wouldn't have cut the cost much anyway, while at the same time losing many potential customers.
I've been so confused about the whole backward compatible with the PS3. Are the PS3 being made now backward compatible for PS2 games or are they saying that you Sony will have a program that you can download from their online virtual world that will allow PS2 game play?
Its most likely going to come in the form of an updated firmware. Although I wouldn't put it past Sony to offer the emulator through the PSstore for say $50. There is no real telling how they will distribute it though. I'm looking forward to an emulator and the online store PS2 games.
Hmm, sounds just like what Transmeta did ... not sure how patentable that is; though I'm always amazed at what gets a patent awarded!
Oddly enough, this might be the biggest thing sony could do to increase PS3 sales.
eddieroolz : removing the ps2 chip increases ps2s' sale so in a way, 'cuts costs for ps3'
by creating this emulator, they could essentially turn ALL current ps3s into ps2 compatible machines, much better than actually releasing new batches of ps3s with ps2 chips in them.
it has long been speculated that Sony intended to make a PS2 emulator for PS3 but refused to announce it because it would cause PS3 sales to skyrocket and PS2 sales to plummet which would further bankrupt Sony's Playstation division since PS2s are sold at a profit but PS3s are sold at a loss.
what i'd like to know is if they will make this emulator like the emulators on PC which allows the render resolution to be almost limitless.
This should have been done right, in the first place! Took sony long enough to realize that, with sales of PS2 still high, it would be smart to to offer backwards compatibility with PS3.
I think the fact that they could release this only now says a lot about how difficult it is to code with Cell.
I do realize its too late to discuss the merits of removing the Emotion Engine processor from PS3, but now that PS2 CPU is about 9 years old, doesn't it cost next to nothing to make and integrate into the PS3?If so, then removing the EE CPU wouldn't have cut the cost much anyway, while at the same time losing many potential customers.
What then if they decided to kill the PS2, it would be uneconomical to keep a whole factory that just produces the EE when the PS3 could live without it.
Finally!!! one less complaint from the no-backward compatibility crowd. They really should have done this from the beginning.
logitech sells a few that are similar, cheap and USB (no vibrate at least for the model i have)PC Emulated PS2 games look sooooo much better then native PS2 as well..
Saitek controlers work awesome; their 6 button model is perfect for N64 emulation too.
PCSX2 is still a release or two away from being truly great; too many games (GoW series for instance)run into problems (although the GPU plugins are probably more at fault...), but for a lost of us, PCSX2 is a viable alternative.
And for the record, doing this is no easy task. Essentially, you're implemening the features of one CPU on another, which is no small feat when you consider the diffrent registers and instruction sets. To be able to do this with any reliability shows that at least Sony knows how to code for its product...
Isn't there something wrong with being able to get such a patent? Pcsx2 and many other emulators work using exactly these principles. Actually porting it's dynamic recompiler, while having all documentation of PS2 and PS3 processors/systems and an ability to run arbitrary code on both systems for tests, becomes rather trivial work (while still time consuming)
This firmware update better not affect my emotion engine ps3... screw software emulation!
The other benefit of doing a software emulator is that their next console could utilize the emulation.
An emulator is fine as long as it does all the necessary work fast enough. Happy users will be the final test, not just happy marketing people...
as long as it can upconvert the game. i saw a ps2 game on an hd tv and it looked awful. maybe it was just because it was a 1080p vizio that couldn't do a progressive scan?
I think the fact that they could release this only now says a lot about how difficult it is to code with Cell.What then if they decided to kill the PS2, it would be uneconomical to keep a whole factory that just produces the EE when the PS3 could live without it.
Well, it's not that the emotion engine chip cost anything to make. But, that the system board on the ps3 had to be designed to support the chip and the other ps3 hardware. Which cost more money than using a software solution.
And as far as difficulty coding for the Cell processor, I think it's more a combination of the two processors. There was a lot of griping about coding for the 128bit emotion engine processor back when it came out as well. Not to mention they need to have software that can translate 128bit risc code to 64bit cisc code. Which is one of the main reasons that it's hard to get a working PS2 emulator for the PC, at least that has any decent performance.
it has long been speculated that Sony intended to make a PS2 emulator for PS3 but refused to announce it because it would cause PS3 sales to skyrocket and PS2 sales to plummet which would further bankrupt Sony's Playstation division since PS2s are sold at a profit but PS3s are sold at a loss.what i'd like to know is if they will make this emulator like the emulators on PC which allows the render resolution to be almost limitless.
umm no lol NO console will ever make any game with a "limitless" resolution tv resolutions dont scale as much as pc monitor resolutions even when talking aobut HDTV's trhey are still limited in resolution compared to pc monitors what you need to ask is will this emulatator allow the ps2 games to upscale to 1080p (which is the current maximum resolution of HDtv's ),and even 1080 p will still produce "jaggies" (i know cos i ahve viewed 1080p on my friends 42 inch lcd). the question that concerns me , is will the next generation of consoles be able to do 1080p with 8x (or higher) AA, with out being little toaster ovens that consoles were this generation.
too little WAYYYYYYYY late.
maybe it was just because it was a 1080p vizio that couldn't do a progressive scan?
Strangely enough, the "p" in 1080p stands for progressive scan.
Backwards compatibility should be standard these days. If you want someone to upgrade to your latest product, then you shouldn't have them worry about holding onto the past. And as someone stated above about Sony preferring people buy the PS2 instead of the PS3 because they lose money on the PS3, I question Sony's logic in that case. If they are not profiting from it, they shouldn't be making it. We certainly don't view the PS3 as charity work.
as long as it can upconvert the game. i saw a ps2 game on an hd tv and it looked awful. maybe it was just because it was a 1080p vizio that couldn't do a progressive scan?
The p in 1080p means progressive. Perhaps you mean because the 1080p progressive scan TV doesn't have interlacing, which a PS2 practically relies on to not look like total crap. For the record, my Dreamcast looks better on an HDTV than my PS2 does - and the DC is using S-video and the PS2 is using Sony component cables. There are a couple of games which are an exception to this, but not enough to matter.
umm no lol NO console will ever make any game with a "limitless" resolution tv resolutions dont scale as much as pc monitor resolutions even when talking aobut HDTV's trhey are still limited in resolution compared to pc monitors
First of all, when you don't use any punctuation, your words read like a rambling buffoon. Second, when he was saying that emulators allow nearly limitless resolution, he means that an emulator can run a game in a higher resolution than it was originally intended for, thus making things look sharper, clearer, and reducing jaggies. You can also sometimes force things like modern anti-aliasing and filtering techniques onto these same games, that were never in there originally. This is not hard to understand if you've ever run a Playstation emulator before.
Furthermore, I don't know where you get off saying that HDTVs are very limited in resolution compared to PC monitors. 1080p is 1920 x 1080. That's pretty decent. Granted, the actual density of monitors is higher due to their generally-smaller size. But modern TVs run a respectable resolution. The PROBLEM is that most people don't have a true high-def source and connection to their 1080p TV, so it doesn't look like it should. If you have a decent blu-ray player hooked up to a modern 1080p set via HDMI, it looks pretty damn good.
As far as "jaggies" on your friend's HDTV, whatever game he's playing isn't really running at 1080p with full AA or it wouldn't look like crap. Oh, but that's a limitation of the Console/PC hardware, and not the TV.
Nicely put!