If they're correct, the unit will retail for $599 at Best Buy locations with no service agreement. That's a lot of dough!

And I though the PS3 used to be expensive...I can buy two of those for the price of this thing!

^Thats just without contract. Im sure you can get it significantly cheaper with a 2 year contract

The actual devices are slated to come in on the 25th as well. http://crackberry.com/storm-2-head [...] tober-25th

So looking forward to this. $599 for no contract, not cheap but I don't plan to get it without a contract.

I am going to get one IF IT IS NOT AS SLOW AS THE STORM 1

My only complaint with my current storm is that it is just SLOW. I am pretty sure it can be fixed with software but RIM does not seem to care enough to do this....the TOUR with the same hardware is MUCH faster

This is what I do not understand.... Cell phones have been around how long? the telephone part of your cell phone costs maybe $2 in parts, the processor and screen, keyboard, etc might cost $20 in parts, and yet the phone retails with out a contract for $599 ? My netbook for $349 has more parts value than a cell phone and the company is making a profit from the netbook...

I do not like government regulation, but the whole cell phone thing has gotten out of hand, the best cell phone out there might be worth $60 in reality, and and an unlimited contract should be no more than $30 a month.

How many of you have read the info on how text messages are send through un-used white space between the frequency's and it is like 98% profit for the cell companies to charge crazy fees for text messaging.

First the auto industry, then the health care industry, next the credit card industry and then the cell phone industry.

I just needed to see a dentist and even with good insurance they wanted a $350 deposit, what a scam.

Well, I personally am unable to design, manufacture, market and support a phone at a $599 price point. A new phone is a lot like a new car... you have a limited time to sell it and actually make money because it quickly starts to lose value as other models come out. While I'd never pay $599 for a phone, I'm pretty sure my EnV Touch is a $400+ phone (without a contract) Verizon has hands down the best coverage in this area so a 2 year contract made sense for me... I paid $49 for my EnV Touch. Seemed like a fair trade to me since I wasn't leaving Verizon.

How about calling it the Blackberry "Typhoon" or "Hurricane", of course if it's not a spectacular new product, we certainly wouldn't want to call it the "Tropical Depression".

What you think a "part" in a given cell phone should cost versus the actual part cost to make is very different. I guarantee that a screen such as the one in BB Storm or Storm 2 does not cost just 20 dollars to manufacture. I am willing to bet a screen like this cost roughly 150-220 dollars each. I find it funny when people figure that their FREE phone they got was in fact a free phone. When in fact it likely was a 160-200 dollar phone. My point is that there is a lot more than 2 dollars for a radio/antenna, screen and keyboard that goes into a phone. Also, the amount of money that is made on a netbook or any computer is 5% or less.

True wookiness, the research and development cost is high, now I do not agree that they need to make it back in the first two months of release, but then again perhaps they do given the short life cycle of todays cell/smartphones.

It couldn't be much worse than a Storm 1. For my company I support nearly 2000 Real Estate Agents of which I've come across about 30 Storm users. EVERY SINGLE ONE has had to be replaced by its user at least TWICE.
Don't get me wrong, its a nice device, but hey, you though Vista was rushed to market. You ain't seen nutt'in til you've seen this P.O.S's record!!!!
Please God let the Storm 2 be more reliable. Until then I'm still recommending iPhones - rock solid, if a bit geriatric! (Oh, and crappy network too!)

$599 without a contract is way too much for a smart phone, much less a phone.

You know what else is a scam? Waiting 3+ months to use an MRI. Of course that is what you wait in Canada on average because government run health care has stifled innovation, the doctor to patient ratio has skyrocketed, and there isn't enough money for equipment. There is a way, however, to get an MRI within a week if you live in Canada. You can either be a dog, be a cat, or fly to the United States and have it done almost immediately.

Which system needs fixing? The one that costs more but you get the treatment you need right away or the one that is "free" but you don't get the treatment you need right away.

Why is it that people all over the world fly to the United States to get medical care? By a showing of hands, how many people here in the United States fly to other countries to get medical care? ... I don't see any hands. For profit = innovation. Innovation saves lives.

tayb, you are spo wrojg its not even funny, MOSt US people goto other countries, my country is cheaper than your for healthcare, ever hear of healthcare holidays, health care in my country is ALOT cheaper than the US

If you know that china underground factory produces a cheap version of iphone (although not fully functional as iphone) only costs around $20.00 street price, you know that $599 is indeed expensive.

Yet some Canadians swear thier Healthcare system is top notch. *rolls eyes*

I was planning on getting a blacberry for personal use but...ouch! I am in the middle of my 2yrs contract. I'll wait. Personally, I would take the HTC Touch Pro II over this.

"You know what else is a scam? Waiting 3+ months to use an MRI. Of course that is what you wait in Canada on average because government run health care has stifled innovation, the doctor to patient ratio has skyrocketed, and there isn't enough money for equipment. There is a way, however, to get an MRI within a week if you live in Canada. You can either be a dog, be a cat, or fly to the United States and have it done almost immediately. "

Dude, just stfu, you have no idea what you are talking about. It took me over 2 months to get an MRI and I live in the US. My doctor said that he wanted me to get an MRI but he had to ASK the freaking Insurance ripoffs first. My doctor also told me that they would deny it the first time, which they did, and he would have to escalate the request. Who would you rather have paying for your health insurance? A company that profits off giving you the least amount of coverage their contract says they can or a government agency that doesn't make a profit that you helped elect? You can keep lining the insurance companies pockets and keep buying them mansions. I'm done with that.

Oh, and btw, 95% of people on Medicaire think it's great.
Over 65% of people that go bankrupt, you know losing all the property you own, do so from medical bills in the US.
The US is ranked 33, next to Cuba, in health care.
45,000+ US citizens die EACH YEAR, from not having health insurance since they have no access to a regular doctor.
If you have no insurance and get cancer, some politicians (rebulicans) suggest you go beg for help at a charity.

The greatest country in the world spits on its people with such poor health care. I really hope you get some disease or injury that requires multiple surgeries/long term care, you go bankrupt, lose your home, loe your health insurance, and freaking die 20 years early.

"You know what else is a scam? Waiting 3+ months to use an MRI. Of course that is what you wait in Canada on average because government run health care has stifled innovation, the doctor to patient ratio has skyrocketed, and there isn't enough money for equipment. There is a way, however, to get an MRI within a week if you live in Canada. You can either be a dog, be a cat, or fly to the United States and have it done almost immediately. "

Dude, just stfu, you have no idea what you are talking about. It took me over 2 months to get an MRI and I live in the US. My doctor said that he wanted me to get an MRI but he had to ASK the freaking Insurance ripoffs first. My doctor also told me that they would deny it the first time, which they did, and he would have to escalate the request. Who would you rather have paying for your health insurance? A company that profits off giving you the least amount of coverage their contract says they can or a government agency that doesn't make a profit that you helped elect? You can keep lining the insurance companies pockets and keep buying them mansions. I'm done with that.

Oh, and btw, 95% of people on Medicaire think it's great.
Over 65% of people that go bankrupt, you know losing all the property you own, do so from medical bills in the US.
The US is ranked 33, next to Cuba, in health care.
45,000+ US citizens die EACH YEAR, from not having health insurance since they have no access to a regular doctor.
If you have no insurance and get cancer, some politicians (rebulicans) suggest you go beg for help at a charity.

The greatest country in the world spits on its people with such poor health care. I really hope you get some disease or injury that requires multiple surgeries/long term care, you go bankrupt, lose your home, loe your health insurance, and freaking die 20 years early.

The US pays 2x as much as the second closest country per person in health costs. Why? Because we have a middle man that wants to profit off of us.

I work for a company in the US that also has a similar location in Canada providing tech support. I talk to my counterparts there all the time through an instant messaging program. We get paid the same hourly amount and the SAME EXACT taxes. Just one difference, he gets all the health care he wants while I have to pay for stupid health insurance which I need to subtract from my pay check.

The Canadians that come to the US for coverage are paraded by the health insurace industry on their commercials/lobbys every day. These Canadians are probably rich or hypocondriacts(sp?). Shoot, how do you suppose Steve Jobs got a liver so quick while others wait up to 5+ years for one? Money talks.

Health insurance is not health coverage btw. You still have to go broke if something catastrophic happens. The doctors will still try to sue you if they can if you don't pay up. They sure sued me when I didn't pay the last 5% of my bill when I was disabled for over a year recovering from a car accident that was not my fault.

You guys live in la la land. You guys have no clue. Talk to someone that has to go to the doctor for a chronic condition or has had a bad accident/serious disease, and see how much they "love" our pathetic health industry.

If it has wi-fi I would get one without a contract just to develop apps. Then maybe i'd get the cell service. The simulator for the blackberry is really cool but its still a simulator. The whole reason I don't like my iPhone is because I need a mac and I have to write my code in objective-c which is currently used on Macs only as far as I have seen. Used C/C++ and Java on AIX, Solaris etc.

Um it took me 3 days to get an MRI. Dentist, anywhere from "Later on in the afternoon" to a week. Medical Treatment, Call my doctor..and anywhere from 1day - 3days and I am in. Maybe its just you..have you ever thought of that?




95% of people think medicaid is great because its free. When was the last time you got something for free and thought "Shit, I don't want this for free, I want to pay for it", with a smile? For the rest of us, we work hard for our Health Insurance. And for the rest of your quote, dude, you sound like politician spewing stuff from his buttocks.




You sir, should go live in Canada.




Oh...just wait when you live in Canada and your paycheck is cut by "20%+ to 40%+" to support all the "La la" perks the Canadians get. Paying $100 a month in deduction from your Paycheck for US private secotr medical benefits will seem like you won the lottery.



You answered you own question. Canadians with $$$ don't want to wait for said medical treatment. Thats "WHY" they come to the US. Our doctors have better and more advance medical facilities, tools, and software etc. Failed argument.




Again you contradict yourself and answer your (Question/rant?)own blame/fault - They suresued me when I didn't pay the last 5% of my bill..

Wow...
Did you not get the Medical Attention? If you did, then the clinics/hospitals provided a service and should be paid for it. If your Medical Insurance doesn't cover "X" amount, it is up to you. Perhaps you should look into your medical coverage and choose plan that covers 80%+ with $200 deductible in your case.

I guess you would like your Company, you work for, not to pay you for your work/services? That is exactly what you are saying.

Overall - you sound like a teeenager who whines about things and can't help himself. You also make slanderous remarks insted of being professional about your comments. You seriously need anger managment. No one takes you seriously when you can't even have a civil debate without name calling and swearing.

Kids these days...soo full of rage and hate. *shakes head*

You know what I haven't had in a while? Big League Chew...

Brings back memory of when I was 10yrs old and the smurfs were still on. Aaaaahhh....Big league chew! Pricesless!!!

Take a look at this article from the Denver Post please, because it sounds like you're just spewing back uninformed talking points you've heard over the years.

Debunking Canadian Health Care Myths

Err, didn't mean to post that without adding on, that while Canada's system might not work for the US, it doesn't mean it's a bad system and that we need to spread falsehoods about it. Or take a story of one person who had to wait a bit too long to get their MRI and make it seem like that is the "norm" for Canada, it really is not.

I have family on both sides of the border, both receive excellent treatment and health care, and pay close to the same taxes. However the only portion of which bothers me about the US health care is that you have to fight with some insurance companies, tooth, nail and claw just to get covered for simple procedures at times. At least I know I do, with my insurance policy (Aetna) of which I pay $400 a month for myself and my kid and supposedly my work pays for 50% of it (totaling $800/month). Plus I have a $1000 deductible.

I had to go to the ER for a kidney stone and my insurance refused to cover it because I didn't call them first. Why should I have to call them ahead of time for an emergency... Luckily after fighting with them for months over it, they finally covered it, which was only after the hospital tried to get a judgement against me for the bill.

That's what bothers me about our healthcare in the US. The insurance companies do everything they possibly can to limit or not cover you if you need to go to a doctor or even the ER. Why do I pay $5200 a year to a company for healthcare, which doesn't want to let me receive the treatment I need?

Suffice to say, this November when open enrollment for my company's health plans are available, I will be shopping elsewhere for coverage.

Whatever dude, I'm sure Canadians get their MRIs in less time than you said. All I know is my insurance denied it the first time. Who the fuck are you to say either way. You keep talking about crap you have no idea about.




Is that the best you can do? You cherry picked one statistic and that's it? You just want to forget about the other stuff they we so fail in? Good for you. You should run to be a repulican.

Over 65% of people that go bankrupt, you know losing all the property you own, do so from medical bills in the US.
The US is ranked 33, next to Cuba, in health care.
45,000+ US citizens die EACH YEAR, from not having health insurance since they have no access to a regular doctor.
If you have no insurance and get cancer, some politicians (rebulicans) suggest you go beg for help at a charity.




BS again. Only the upper middle class and above pays slightly higher taxes than we do. Everyone else SAVES MONEY compared to us as they pay the same taxes and yet don't have to pay that $100 a month for insurance, nevermind the deductibles, copays, and other BS you foam at the mouth for.

[citation][nom]r3t4rd[/nom]You answered you own question. Canadians with $$$ don't want to wait for said medical treatment. Thats "WHY" they come to the US. Our doctors have better and more advance medical facilities, tools, and software etc. Failed argument. [citation]
No I answered YOUR question as to why Canadians come to the US for care. The rich can do whatever they want even if it is excess. See Steve Jobs liver transplant. He leapfrogged thousands waiting for a liver because he signed up at every hospital and had a jet gased and ready to take him there when he needed to.

[citation][nom]r3t4rd[/nom]Again you contradict yourself and answer your (Question/rant?)own blame/fault - They suresued me when I didn't pay the last 5% of my bill..Wow...Did you not get the Medical Attention? If you did, then the clinics/hospitals provided a service and should be paid for it. If your Medical Insurance doesn't cover "X" amount, it is up to you. Perhaps you should look into your medical coverage and choose plan that covers 80%+ with $200 deductible in your case. I guess you would like your Company, you work for, not to pay you for your work/services? That is exactly what you are saying. Overall - you sound like a teeenager who whines about things and can't help himself. You also make slanderous remarks insted of being professional about your comments. You seriously need anger managment. No one takes you seriously when you can't even have a civil debate without name calling and swearing. Kids these days...soo full of rage and hate. *shakes head*[citation]

I was pointing out how laughable the argument of tort reform is as a doctor sued me for 5% of the bill when i was FREAKING DISABLED FOR OVER A YEAR. Oh you also missed that part didn't you? You are a freaking fail. Like I said before, I hope you get into a accident that requires multiple surgeries or get cancer and you have to go bankrupt paying for your insurance doesn't pay, you lose you insurance because you cannot work anymore, and die 20 years early. Enjoy the worst health care of any powerful country. Enjoy health care on par or below that of Cuba. Idiot.

From the link above:

Myth: Taxes in Canada are extremely high, mostly because of national health care.

In actuality, taxes are nearly equal on both sides of the border. Overall, Canada's taxes are slightly higher than those in the U.S. However, Canadians are afforded many benefits for their tax dollars, even beyond health care (e.g., tax credits, family allowance, cheaper higher education), so the end result is a wash. At the end of the day, the average after-tax income of Canadian workers is equal to about 82 percent of their gross pay. In the U.S., that average is 81.9 percent.

Myth: Canada's health care system is a cumbersome bureaucracy.

The U.S. has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. More than 31 percent of every dollar spent on health care in the U.S. goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, etc. The provincial single-payer system in Canada operates with just a 1 percent overhead. Think about it. It is not necessary to spend a huge amount of money to decide who gets care and who doesn't when everybody is covered.

Myth: The Canadian system is significantly more expensive than that of the U.S.Ten percent of Canada's GDP is spent on health care for 100 percent of the population. The U.S. spends 17 percent of its GDP but 15 percent of its population has no coverage whatsoever and millions of others have inadequate coverage. In essence, the U.S. system is considerably more expensive than Canada's. Part of the reason for this is uninsured and underinsured people in the U.S. still get sick and eventually seek care. People who cannot afford care wait until advanced stages of an illness to see a doctor and then do so through emergency rooms, which cost considerably more than primary care services.

What the American taxpayer may not realize is that such care costs about $45 billion per year, and someone has to pay it. This is why insurance premiums increase every year for insured patients while co-pays and deductibles also rise rapidly.

Myth: Canada's government decides who gets health care and when they get it.While HMOs and other private medical insurers in the U.S. do indeed make such decisions, the only people in Canada to do so are physicians. In Canada, the government has absolutely no say in who gets care or how they get it. Medical decisions are left entirely up to doctors, as they should be.

There are no requirements for pre-authorization whatsoever. If your family doctor says you need an MRI, you get one. In the U.S., if an insurance administrator says you are not getting an MRI, you don't get one no matter what your doctor thinks — unless, of course, you have the money to cover the cost.

Myth: There are long waits for care, which compromise access to care.There are no waits for urgent or primary care in Canada. There are reasonable waits for most specialists' care, and much longer waits for elective surgery. Yes, there are those instances where a patient can wait up to a month for radiation therapy for breast cancer or prostate cancer, for example. However, the wait has nothing to do with money per se, but everything to do with the lack of radiation therapists. Despite such waits, however, it is noteworthy that Canada boasts lower incident and mortality rates than the U.S. for all cancers combined, according to the U.S. Cancer Statistics Working Group and the Canadian Cancer Society. Moreover, fewer Canadians (11.3 percent) than Americans (14.4 percent) admit unmet health care needs.

Myth: Canadians are paying out of pocket to come to the U.S. for medical care.Most patients who come from Canada to the U.S. for health care are those whose costs are covered by the Canadian governments. If a Canadian goes outside of the country to get services that are deemed medically necessary, not experimental, and are not available at home for whatever reason (e.g., shortage or absence of high tech medical equipment; a longer wait for service than is medically prudent; or lack of physician expertise), the provincial government where you live fully funds your care. Those patients who do come to the U.S. for care and pay out of pocket are those who perceive their care to be more urgent than it likely is.

Myth: Canada is a socialized health care system in which the government runs hospitals and where doctors work for the government.Princeton University health economist Uwe Reinhardt says single-payer systems are not "socialized medicine" but "social insurance" systems because doctors work in the private sector while their pay comes from a public source. Most physicians in Canada are self-employed. They are not employees of the government nor are they accountable to the government. Doctors are accountable to their patients only. More than 90 percent of physicians in Canada are paid on a fee-for-service basis. Claims are submitted to a single provincial health care plan for reimbursement, whereas in the U.S., claims are submitted to a multitude of insurance providers. Moreover, Canadian hospitals are controlled by private boards and/or regional health authorities rather than being part of or run by the government.

Myth: There aren't enough doctors in Canada.

From a purely statistical standpoint, there are enough physicians in Canada to meet the health care needs of its people. But most doctors practice in large urban areas, leaving rural areas with bona fide shortages. This situation is no different than that being experienced in the U.S. Simply training and employing more doctors is not likely to have any significant impact on this specific problem. Whatever issues there are with having an adequate number of doctors in any one geographical area, they have nothing to do with the single-payer system.

And these are just some of the myths about the Canadian health care system. While emulating the Canadian system will likely not fix U.S. health care, it probably isn't the big bad "socialist" bogeyman it has been made out to be.

It is not a perfect system, but it has its merits. For people like my 55-year-old Aunt Betty, who has been waiting for 14 months for knee-replacement surgery due to a long history of arthritis, it is the superior system. Her $35,000-plus surgery is finally scheduled for next month. She has been in pain, and her quality of life has been compromised. However, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Aunt Betty — who lives on a fixed income and could never afford private health insurance, much less the cost of the surgery and requisite follow-up care — will soon sport a new, high-tech knee. Waiting 14 months for the procedure is easy when the alternative is living in pain for the rest of your life.

From the link above.

Sweet. I have the Storm, and I like it, but I wish the OS were a little faster. Hopefully the Storm 2 won't let down. Too bad my Verizon "new every two" contract doesn't come around until February 2011... ARGH!

For $600 - no way.

Great post Saturn77! For those who want to pick out one statistic or another to support their personal view, STOP IT!

The bottom line is that there is great medical care in the U.S. and in Canada. The problems in the U.S. system are higher costs, people who have none or inadequate coverage because they can't afford it, and the possibility of denial even if you thought you had great coverage. If you have coverage and you get approved, you're in! and you get fixed up in jiffy. The problems in Canada are lack of doctors, lack of nurses, lack of specialists in a lot of areas. It's often very difficult now in Ontario to get a family doctor (primary care physician) because there aren't enough. People do have to wait for treatment that they do in fact need. But the reason they have to wait is because someone else needs the treatment more urgently or has in line ahead. When treatment is urgently needed you get it right away. It's a priority system which is not perfect (if you're the one waiting) but the solution is more doctors, more facilities, more equipment which costs money which comes from tax dollars and guess what... no one wants it when they're asked to pay for it (until they're the one waiting of course.

It's all about money in both systems it just manifests itself differently. I'd rather have the Canadian system... I sleep better at night without having to worry about whether I have enough coverage, whether I might get denied treatment that I truly need, whether I might lose my job and my health care along with it, eventually have my health care cancelled if I get a chronic illness and the insurance company gets tired of paying the bills (that is a BIG issue in the US system folks), or any other scenario in which I won't get treatment because I'm not covered for some reason.

Health care costs money. That's it. It costs a certain amount to pay for a certain level of care to the population. Do we pay through taxes or directly? I say through taxes and have the comfort of knowing I'll never be denied, my kids will never be denied, my relatives will never, and no one will lose their house because they or someone they know will DIE unless they can raise the money for their treatment.

Holy Off topic chatting batman! A blackberry article turning into a healthcare debate....

Anywho, this is a "normal" price for a new BB. The first storm came out with a price of $599 as well. Is it a fair? Tough to say but it isn't high by market standards. I can't wait for some reviews!