Google Accuses Microsoft Bing of Stealing Search

4:50 PM - February 2, 2011 - By Marcus Yam - Source : Tom's Guide US

Let's get ready to rumble!

Uh oh, this could be the clash of the titans here with Google and Microsoft going head to head over the issue of stolen search engine results.

A report on Search Engine Land, which was published with help input from Google, details what the search giant believes to be Microsoft's Bing copying some of the search results turned up by Google.

Google tested its suspicions by creating "honeypot" instances where a nonsensical search string returned a very specific result. Google says that this is the only time it has ever manipulated search results, and it has since disabled the tweak from the system.

Read this to get the first part of the story.

Microsoft responded to this in two different instances. The first response was from Stefan Weitz, Director, Bing:“We use multiple signals and approaches in ranking search results. The overarching goal is to do a better job determining the intent of the search so we can provide the most relevant answer to a given query. Opt-in programs like the toolbar help us with clickstream data, one of many input signals we and other search engines use to help rank sites.”

Then in another statement given to ZDNet another Microsoft representative said flatly, “We do not copy Google’s results.”

Then finally Microsoft published what could be its final response in its search blog, written by Harry Shum, PhD, Corporate Vice President, Bing.

We use over 1,000 different signals and features in our ranking algorithm. A small piece of that is clickstream data we get from some of our customers, who opt-in to sharing anonymous data as they navigate the web in order to help us improve the experience for all users.
To be clear, we learn from all of our customers. What we saw in today’s story was a spy-novelesque stunt to generate extreme outliers in tail query ranking. It was a creative tactic by a competitor, and we’ll take it as a back-handed compliment. But it doesn’t accurately portray how we use opt-in customer data as one of many inputs to help improve our user experience.
Read more.

Then Google decided to write a blog of its own, with words penned by Google Fellow Amit Singhal with the theory is that Bing is drawing off of things that Internet Explorer users share:

As we see it, this experiment confirms our suspicion that Bing is using some combination of:
Internet Explorer 8, which can send data to Microsoft via its Suggested Sites feature
the Bing Toolbar, which can send data via Microsoft’s Customer Experience Improvement Program
or possibly some other means to send data to Bing on what people search for on Google and the Google search results they click. Those results from Google are then more likely to show up on Bing. Put another way, some Bing results increasingly look like an incomplete, stale version of Google results—a cheap imitation.

At Google we strongly believe in innovation and are proud of our search quality. We’ve invested thousands of person-years into developing our search algorithms because we want our users to get the right answer every time they search, and that’s not easy. We look forward to competing with genuinely new search algorithms out there—algorithms built on core innovation, and not on recycled search results from a competitor. So to all the users out there looking for the most authentic, relevant search results, we encourage you to come directly to Google. And to those who have asked what we want out of all this, the answer is simple: we'd like for this practice to stop.
Read the rest here.

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djackson_dba 02/02/2011 11:07 PM

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Is this the same Google that was just accused of stealing code?

LOL!!!

someguynamedmatt 02/02/2011 11:11 PM

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No way. Bing sucks way too much to be using Google's search results.

elgranchuchu 02/02/2011 11:11 PM

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THIS IS GONNA BE EPIC!!!!

Anonymous 02/02/2011 11:13 PM

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-1

Seems pretty clear cut. Looking forward to microsofts (real) response, which will probably come after consultations with their lawyers...

gogogadgetliver 02/02/2011 11:17 PM

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Why does everyone just regurgitate this without investigating?

Bing is watching the behavior of the Bing Bar users. Google just made a synthetic result that would normally never occur then impersonated a Bing Bar user to "upload" the data into Bings ranking engine. The test is only valid within the parameters of the test itself.

Bing did something pretty innovative and clever that Google again didn't think of first and they are floundering in a temper tantrum that reeks of childish insecurity.

The Blogosphere meanwhile is swallowing this tripe and giving a free PR ride to Google (who let's face it is probably the biggest IP thief on the planet).

Here is the REAL response from Microsoft which is not reported anywhere..
http://www.bing.com/community/site [...] aight.aspx

malmental 02/02/2011 11:18 PM

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it was just a matter of time before this happened...
predictable but yet, whom do you believe in..?

gnookergi 02/02/2011 11:36 PM

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I just changed my search bar from Google to Bing.

Anomalyx 02/02/2011 11:43 PM

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-3

M$ got caught red-handed, claimed they weren't stealing results, then admitted to it, then tried to attack Google's practices (not it's search capabilities). Basically M$'s response is full of crap. It was proven that they are stealing results. Can't they just accept it without acting like a bunch of 5-year-olds?

gogogadgetliver 02/02/2011 11:43 PM

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gnookergi :
I just changed my search bar from Google to Bing.

Welcome to the dark side. Enjoy the cookies

PudgyChicken 02/02/2011 11:47 PM

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rubix_1011 02/02/2011 11:47 PM

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Dear Microsoft-

We have noticed that in the past, you have 'acquired' some IP in terms that might be considered....questionable. We at Google have recently taken this role as the world's leader in IP and code theft. We'd appreciate it if you wouldn't pick up old habits...or even pretend to. It's our playground now. We take the lunch money these days.

Nyah, nyah, boo, boo...stick your head in doo-doo.

Sincerely,

Google

rmmil978 02/02/2011 11:48 PM

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Making some popcorn...

eddieroolz 02/02/2011 11:50 PM

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Read about it, tried some results. Nothing out of the ordinary - it's not like Microsoft actually stole code that it didn't have access to, unlike a 'certain' company...

mikem_90 02/03/2011 12:37 PM

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gogogadgetliver :
Why does everyone just regurgitate this without investigating?Bing is watching the behavior of the Bing Bar users. Google just made a synthetic result that would normally never occur then impersonated a Bing Bar user to "upload" the data into Bings ranking engine. The test is only valid within the parameters of the test itself.Bing did something pretty innovative and clever that Google again didn't think of first and they are floundering in a temper tantrum that reeks of childish insecurity.The Blogosphere meanwhile is swallowing this tripe and giving a free PR ride to Google (who let's face it is probably the biggest IP thief on the planet).Here is the REAL response from Microsoft which is not reported anywhere..http://www.bing.com/community/site [...] aight.aspx

I love how the apologists and the astroturfers come out of the woodwork. Its times like these when I wonder how many of these idiots are actually paid shills for the various companies who are in hot water at the time, since its been shown that its a practice many companies are not above doing.

Reading how this was done, it seems clear cut. The only way for them to get the link for the site in question, is for Bing to have somehow COPIED the search link. Bing isn't going to suddenly know about the fake link if they search for something and come up empty.

Google searched from the web page interface, not in a special toolbar. The data was not "Fed" into Bing. So that means the data that Bing used, was gleaned knowingly directly on Google's web page. How is that not a sleazy way to get better results?

gogogadgetliver 02/03/2011 12:49 PM

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mikem_90 :
I love how the apologists and the astroturfers come out of the woodwork.

I love how people resort to attacking the messenger and not the logic.

"So that means the data Bing used, was gleaned knowingly directly on Google's web page"

You clearly don't even have a grasp the technical aspects of this so please refrain from moving on to any ethical aspects.

sseyler 02/03/2011 2:00 AM

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Anonymous 02/03/2011 2:05 AM

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Fun stuff to read but I don't take any of it seriously. I despise Internet Explorer; I won't use it (until I'm 'forced to' by some site or application that won't run in anything else...and then I make an heroic effort to avoid that site or app in the future). When a business entity begins to view itself as another 'government' in my life, I get rid of it whether it's AARP, AAA Michigan, or IE. Yeah, I know they aren't going to miss my business but man, it makes me feel good to dump them. Windows may be the next thing I dump entirely. Have been playing around with Linux a little, considering Mac again...ah, cutting the 'strings' feels so good. OH...I won't use Bing, either. Tried it; didn't like it. Get better and faster results with Google so far. Jeesh, is Dogpile still out there in the ether? Guess I'll go check on that right now... and just come back later to see how the war's shaping up.

Userremoved 02/03/2011 2:18 AM

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I will get my popcorn!

NoniB17 02/03/2011 2:22 AM

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Well, I hope this is not some duplication of a post I tried to send previously...but jeesh, I had to say this: I love this thread because...I despise Internet Explorer, won't use it unless 'forced to' by some site or app that I can't find a workaround for AND, I am not all that keen on Bing either. I tried it, didn't like it, and went back to good ol' Google. Windows may be the next thing I dump; have been playing around with Linux, thinking again about switching over to a Mac...my little old Dell desktop CPU is doing okay yet with XP-SP3 but the big move to either Windows 7 or over to Mac OS is pretty much inevitable. And that Bing bar thing...no way in heck. Wow, it seems as if everyone lately wants ALL of my 'personal' information via Facebook. Got the sad news today that eHow is moving to a single portal...Facebook to log onto eHow. Nope, not gonna happen. Sad to have to dump eHow just when I had some really great articles to post. So it's time to kiss Facebook good-bye too (permanently). These entities that try to become another form of government annoy me enough that I've dumped AARP and AAA Michigan, prescription medication (Big Pharma can kiss my grits)...so why not Bing and MicroSssssssst too? Is there ANY big corporation out there in The System that does not steal what it can from whomever it can? Let me know, please, so I can support them (it?). Thanks!

digitalvampire 02/03/2011 2:34 AM

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As much as I hate to defend Microsoft here, and I REALLY do (Free/Libre software dev & advocate, if that puts it into perspective), I don't see what the problem is. Does Google not provide search results freely and openly to anyone? Is anyone not free to do what they want with those results? (I'm assuming yes, but that may not be the case, I genuinely don't know) So they are just upset that someone is using their results and maybe even repackaging/redisplaying/parsing/etc. them? Then good lord, don't provide the service. You don't think that free software developers get upset that EVERY Apple and Android device has their code on it and they probably don't get the credit they deserve, and zero money? Don't provide a service for free and then get upset when people use it. You do NOT have to provide that service. But at the same time, I understand that their are government regulations. Microsoft Pay in the billions every years for anti-trust fines, no one else even comes close. For example, if I was Google, I'd just block ALL my services from ALL Apple devices once Jobs started running his little mouth. I'd do the same if I was Microsoft. Put them out of business in like a month, but that whole government regulation thing. Anyway, I've made some points, you think about them. Both sides please.

jhansonxi 02/03/2011 3:03 AM

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Bing Is Nearly Google

randoMIZER 02/03/2011 3:18 AM

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djackson_dba wrote :

Is this the same Google that was just accused of stealing code?

LOL!!!

It sure is, however those accusations fell flat within a few hours of publication. These accusations won't vanish so fast I don't think, since it's one company's word against another company's word.

FloKid 02/03/2011 4:03 AM

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Clash of titans??? LoL. More like a squash of a bug by an elephant. Who even heard of Bing haha. I admit I used it, but only for C# and DirectX, who even knows about that stuff anyways lol. Bing Bing Bong, bounce outta here }: (

mlopinto2k1 02/03/2011 4:35 AM

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Google's responses and blog posts remind me a great deal of a dictatorship, hidden amongst the shadows, occasionally displaying it's ugliness. Honesty, not manipulation, will win in the end.

theshonen8899 02/03/2011 4:40 AM

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That's funny. It's almost as if this article is implying that we thought Bing was an original idea.

f-14 02/03/2011 5:07 AM

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should have stuck around to reading the user comments at the bottom of that very artile as 2 people debunked everything claimed by microsoft in about a heartbeat.

Quote : dominicjj 2/2/2011 1:45 PM - Doesn't it bother you that Google can "trick" your results?

- Don't you find it strange that you use "1000 signals" and yet the Google result is the one that Bing uses?

- Do you really think Google employees worry about Bing for more than a nanosecond each day when your division, the Online Services Division, flushes half a billion dollars down the toilet every year?

- Did you know that Google's experiment was to catch you red-handed doing what you've been doing for months (working hard on core relevance eh?) rather than to trick your results once off?

- Do you know what click fraud actually is? Or did some poor minion have to tell you because you're non-technical?

Luigi Montanez 2/2/2011 1:52 PM When you're using click stream data from Google as a search signal, that's effectively copying from Google. You didn't do it directly or intentionally. But their results showed up in your results. At the end of the day, that's copying.

Will you blacklist click stream data from Google (and all other search engines)?

a great way to show this would be to use a few ficticious word phrases. use one word phrase on a linux system with firefox, use another word phrase on a linux system with IE8 and another word with linux and chrome. repeat on a windows machine with new ficticious word phrases and same search engines.
proof would be in the results

zodiacfml 02/03/2011 5:59 AM

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the question here, how much users are using Bing? if it's significant enough then Google could get serious. if taken to court or settlement, Google might only get MS to disable Bing toolbar as the default install in IE browser.
few Bing toolbar users will improve little to their overall search results from getting user data. it is pretty much like a mosquito stealing search results from an animal.

mayne92 02/03/2011 7:12 AM

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djackson_dba :
Is this the same Google that was just accused of stealing code?LOL!!!

...is your protagonist to your statement the same douche-bag company who steals open-source code verbatim and slaps a copyright on it...gets caught...and says there must be some mistake? Is it also the same company that advertised AND fooled 99% of Tom's readers and the author itself saying that Google is "spying" on you with what you type from the chrome address bar and showed demonstrations of such but yet FAILED to mention that the Bing search in IE does exactly the same thing? I just can't help but laugh at Tom's reader's who say they are "geeks" but yet make some of the stupidest comments on the net...you being one. Congrats.

scooterboi 02/03/2011 7:34 AM

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so basically, M$ IE is a trojan that phones home your search?

epic win M$

Manos 02/03/2011 7:36 AM

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I would like to state my opinion but for those of you hating MS so badly or are google lovers for some reason please don't read my opinion cause you will waste yours and other readers' time, having to read your pointless replies.

Ive been using for ages like most of us Google. I always hoped it wouldn't look so "dry" anymore ( same reason I am excited for the new Bios in Mobos like Asus' Maximus IV Extreme ). Its already having that MS-DOS feeling in it. Was the reason I ever used Bing a couple of times back in the days and I saw how poor the results are. I gave it another go a couple of months later. Still sucked and I instantly went back to find through Google what i was looking for.

Another couple of months later I needed to find something in video and picture results. Well... If you haven't tried Bing for that matter its ace. The results system it uses for pics and videos etc are SO useful, so pretty and convenient. Try Binging ( lol?) "Carmen Electra " and start scrolling down the results of pictures. No.. It wasn't what I first did but its a perfectly good example. I dare you to do so right now and then read the rest

Point is, that's the reason I gave some more time to Bing and now the results are million times better than they used to be and the fact its not as freakin dry as Google looks cause lets face it. Its ugly. "but its a search engine..." yeah windows is also just a platform if you wanna put it that way but we rather have it look like 7 than XP all over again. Simply just cant go back. Give Bing another go and see if you like it.

Sorry for wasting your time Thank you for reading and like i said.. This is purely my opinion. Personally I dont give a crap about what Google and MS have to say/argue about. For all i care google has fucked up in WAY too many lvls ( stolen code to stolen emails/data with their wireless drivebys x.x ) so its why I cant defend them in this case. Search engine is about our convenience so dont take sides. Try them and go with what you like. I do prefer Bing even if i still have to turn to Google 5% ( only ) of the times I search for something. Which is quite amazing progress for Bing or any other search engine if you ask me. Cheers

alidan 02/03/2011 9:03 AM

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well what it sounds like to me, bing takes goggle searches, en mass, and rehashes it.
less work on microsoft, and google, if it innovates, only improves its competition.

google has the right to be @#%#ed about this.