just shows how bad the cost of living is getting...

lol

I honestly feel sorry for the guy. I can understand why he did it.

I would have done the same thing... He made out with $5100 RL cash. no RL criminal charges, case closed!

I used to bot toons in games for RL cash, made a couple G... but his way is far easier.

RL trumps game life. no harm done.

He did it for his family.. While it was wrong, I can't honestly say I blame him, and if I was in his position I might have done the same thing. And even more he knows what he did was wrong, and is willing to live with the consequences. Looks like there are still some good people in this world.

At least the game producers realized the embezzlement was simply a part of life (an unfortunate part), and didn't boot him because he stole the in-game money, but rather because he broke the rules of service.

Hopefully the people he stole from remember it's just a game, but I have a feeling someone is going to try to sue him, people are just that pathetic.

Yea I would have to say I would have done the same for my child. Hmmmm choices get banned from a game or help my child? Kinda a no brainer if you ask me.

But anyway people sell ISK all the time in that game. People also sell toons for RL cash too. I know a few people who have bought extra Hulk pilots and I personally have sold a Rorq pilot.

Oops, I should clarify that I don't support embezzlers, and people who do it in real life should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. What I meant was, the Eve Online producers realize that when you simulate an economy on that scale, you are going to simulate the good and bad parts, and can't punish people in real life for their actions in-game. If there were an in-game justice system, I'd be all for sentencing his character Bernie-Madoff style.

Yeah, who needs principles or morals... too bad this guy wasn't in charge of a REAL bank with your money in it, or investment company. Like Madoff.

I mean he did for his family right! I bet you guys wouldn't mind a bit huh?

So let me get this right - people pay with real world cash to get game world cash(either by buying a subscription and taking an opportunity cost hit by playing, or directly buying it), put this converted real-world cash into his virtual bank, and then he embezzels this converted real-world cash from his virtual bank to pay for real-world expenses, and no one thinks this unethical or illegal?

Sorry. I have medical bills, I have expenses, I have a house - I would NEVER think of stealing real or virtual cash in order to pay for these expenses! I know it currently is not illegal, but it still is highly unethical.

Again, would anyone have had any problems if he has "only stolen a couple of cents out of each player's real world bank account" to raise $5100 for expenses? After all, its not like anyone will miss a few pennies individually - they probably have that much lost in the nooks and crannies of a single couch at their home. After all, he had a good reason for STEALING the money - so that makes it ethical and legal enough for me.

Now, had he turned to the community and asked for help ("I am struggling with high medical expenses for my son, if you can afford to donate anything - even a penny - to help my son get his needed medical expenses, I would be eternally grateful") then I might have sympathy for him.

So, RL trumps game life and no harm done? I disagree. Can I blame him? Yes. Do I understand why he did this? Entirely. It is easy to say "well, its only monopoly money, so I am not really stealing anything" without realizing its roots are in real world money, mainly because so few people actually think fully about what things really represent.

I agree with Dan222. No matter what the situation is stealing is wrong. Real money or not. If someone stole your WoW account and sold it in Ebay would you not be mad? I mean it was the sake of his family. Your bank steals your money because the CEO needed the money for whatever reason would you not be upset? It is pathetic not because people will sue, its pathetic people don't care and say what they will as long as it doesn't happen to them. I bet if it was your money you would not be so sympathetic.

lol, guess the global financial crisis is affecting virtual banks as well.

hellwig -

I'd almost agree with you if the guy embezzeled in-money game and used it to purchase things in-game. If the game made it clear they expected some of this behavior and were going to simulate courts and other consequences for such actions (ie, you get caught, your character is put into a "prison" or possibly lynched), then I would agree.

However, because this wasn't part of the game, because people invested real-world money, and because his embezzelment took it back out into the real world, I feel his crime is a little bit more deserving of punishment - such as paying restitution to the people for the $5100. This could be divided up amongst those who suffered game losses and would be applied as a credit to their accounts against their monthly fees. THAT would send a clear message.

dan222, kpride017 it's pathetic to compare this with real life. come now it is just a game. it's meant for you to try things you wouldn't do in reality. because if you just act the exact same way as in reality than there's no real reason for you to play that game just live you life.

kpride017 stealing money in the game is not at all like stealing an WoW account. because you still have your character just that it was riped off. it's more like being fooled in WoW to give away your money or items, but you would still have your account.

now think a bit about it. isn't murder a crime too? how about when we play a shooter in multiplayer mode. I guess to you shooting at your friends character would be just like shooting your friends in real life?

It's against the TOS to sell creds for REAL cash. They ban people for it all the time. That may seem like a lot of money but google 'eve isk', all those sites are making more

bogdan22, people paid for the credit with real money, which the guy stole. The equivalent in real life would be killing a character, and the person behind it dieing as well. See what I mean? People will have to replace the in game currency using real money. In the end, the guy made players suffer a monetary loss. Obviously, the game currency had a real life value, and he took it. How is this different from stealing?

A video game scam to pay the credit card bill... why not?

Sooo... why didn't he stop playing a video game and start working to earn the money?

Greg_77

You have no way of transforming that virtual money in real money back. So you lost your real money as soon as you went out and transformed it into virtual money. If you lose it in the game than that's that it's your choice you want to replace it with real money back in, or just try to compensate by try to play more cleverly. But I say to you again the game currency has no real life value because you can't get it back.

I have never played the game but why should it matter? You buy ingame money(a) with your real cash (b). So you loose b to get a. Now what he did was get b to earn a. I honestly dont think that he should even be in trouble (unless he actually stole something, and its considered illegal in the real world). If I was EVE I wouldnt ban him, but maybe even get some kind of fund going to help the poor guy (kid has medical issues...Thats big money)

Now THAT is the real question that deserves a answer.

There's a very good reason why it matters, it wasn't his money period. And he broke the EULA which states doing just what he did is a instant and permanent ban. He broke it, he got banned.

Then you are a idiot who wouldn't understand such things. Let go to your house and steal 7% of your stuff. Doesn't matter if it wasn't real life money, it still wasn't his.

So let me get this straight:

He has piling medical expenses from his child, so rather than WORK a bit more, to raise funds, he instead sits behind the computer and plays video games, then steals from the people he is playing with, and none of you find anything wrong with this??

Well, the guy in this article certainly converted the virtual money to real money, even if he did this against game rules. Obviously, it has real value. Even if the virtual money could not be converted to real money, it still has to be replaced with real money to enjoy the game. In the end, the game players are still going to lose real cash to regain that virtual money. Actually, I thought of a good example. Let's say you go to an arcade. You buy tokens. You play games with some token. You can not convert those tokens back to cash. Someone "takes" them. According to you, no one stole anything from you. I mean, they can't be reconverted into cash. Yet this is still considered stealing. No fun to be at an arcade without tokens, no fun to be in a virtual world with virtual money. So how is this different from stealing?

I share the opinion of MDillenbeck, Kami3k, and others. While this wasn't technically illegal, it is unethical, and were this anybody I knew IRL, it would be a person that would permanently loose my trust.

I don't condone theft of any kind - regardless if it's virtual goods or currency or if it's real-world goods. Either way, it impacts a real person and that makes it a real theft.

On a final note, there's a very good chance that the 200 billion ISK was 'confiscated' by CCP during the banning of the player. CCP's policy when banning players violating the TOS involves removing all money or goods that were traded for the Real Life cash. Too bad they have no power or authority to claim the Real-Life cash he earned from this.

Hmmm i played EVE For about 9 months and made lots of isk.
within my 14 day trial i had amassed over 600million isk.
But here is thing you cant actually buy ISK straight out.
I mean there are ways you can technically buy ISK through
EVE. But you cant say use your credit card spend $50 and get
ISK it doesnt work like that.

Straight Cash for ISK in EVE isnt supported so he could very
well only ripped out people who salvaged which is how i made
my living in eve. I ammassed way over 200 billion thats nothing.

Now Eve does allow you to say buy a time card with cash.
(Time card allows you to play eve online for a set period of time.)
So if you buy a 60 day time card, and say split it in half.
You can sale one half of the time card on Eves Market in game and
have people buy that for like 180-300,000,000 isk

People without all there morals and crap stealing virutal money is
not the same as stealing real money. Yes its still stealing but
there are different levels of theft. In real life you have several degrees of misdemeanors, then you have several degrees of felonies.

Given the circumstances I would have just asked the guy to replace the money and not let it happen again. Make it so he had to pay
for three months of service or something.
Because I know after my first month playing the game. my other 8 months where free because i just bought time codes through the ingame market place with ISK.

I love how NOBODY has mentioned the fact that he's a CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER?! They guy is or WAS f'ing LOADED. No “real” "CEO" that I know about makes under 200K/yr...

Now if in his RL he f'd up his money, then that's HIS prob. Med bills, house payments? Bologna! How about he SELLS some of the materialistic trash he's prob amassed with his cushy job and then talk about woe-is-me? Man some of you are so gullible—his taking a paltry amount of cash is NOT the issue. The RL issue is: HOW can we trust anyone, if the supposed "leaders," the retards that set up these "ethical" systems to CONTROL the rest of US while THEY DO NOT FOLLOW THEM AT ALL???

Hence HTF this country/rest of the world is in financial turmoil; THE RICH STOLE FROM US, PUNISH US for breaking the very laws they ENFORCE on US as a populous... But WHO goes to prison for costing 100,000 people their rightfully EARNED pensions, retirement and so forth? THAT is the central issue at hand, not about some stupid TOS, game or med bills. The FEUDAL SYSTEM is still in play here. WTF do you think all the super rich families from 100, 300, 500... 5000yrs ago went?

How do you think every society has been run—by some "King," and a few of his servants? WRONG! The BANKS that lend money so we all can have a "decent," middle class life style—that is who! How many of you could actually afford all that you have w/o a single credit card? Prob 90% of us could not; that money HAS to come from somewhere, and BANKS are it>.< Banks have owners, and owners have families, and those families RUN/MANAGE/OWN the bank... so WTF do you think OWNS the nation? The people with the MOST money to lend to the serfs — GET IT? No I don’t think many of you do; these people THINK they are “BETTER” than us. And overt-greed-based, capitalism supports them all the way. That guy in a Bentley, well he earns enough to buy your life’s work, so yep guess his life is “worth” more than yours/mine etc…. RIGHT? Sure sounds like it when these people get slaps on the wrist for doing crimes WE would go to prison for. Go ahead, slap your RULING-CLASS master on the wrist for stealing from the slaves of society—the “middle-class” hahaha… sickening how we have such a low opinion of ourselves.

Thus the problem that everyone has overlooked is... WTF is a "CEO" breaking rules? Someone with that clout and stature (supposed) is robbing a game for $5K... He doesn't have friends or fam he could easy borrow a pittance (in his class) 5K from? We're talking about a CLASS of people, not just some guy. Lesson to be learned: "Ethics" and "morals" are used to CONTROL YOU, while someone else violates them to profit off YOUR disadvantage.

SOCIOPATH- a person, as a psychopathic personality, whose behavior is antisocial and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility or social conscience.

And that’s what MOST of these types of people, in said position are. They DO NOT CARE about you, your med bills, your expenses, your problems—they ONLY care about themselves! Hence, how could anyone allow their company to implode and rob millions of money they legally and rightfully EARNED - THEY DO NOT GIVE SH~T, that's how. Screw this “guy” and HIS problems, he bilked people of an experience by cheating and tainting the game, hence he should not only be held liable in-game, the creators should take him to CIVIL COURT, which only requires proof of intent to DEFRAUD, b/c that’s just what he did!

Sheep... pull your own damn wool from your eyes! www.INFOWARS.com read, educate yourself.

v1212, he was the ingame corporations CEO. In EVE guilds = corporations and guild masters = CEOs.

Neog2, nowadays you can actually extremely easily use your credit card for some ISKs. You just buy game time codes and instantly transform them into PLEXes which you also instantly sell in game. 1 GTC = 2 PLEXes = ~700 mill ISKs.

For those that condemn and whatnot the guy, EVE is not your average MMO out there. Stealing/griefing/harassing/scamming other players is part of the game and everything goes. It perfectly legit to use any means available (mostly social engineering is used) to scam and steal from others. The first rule of EVE community is DONT TRUST ANYONE. And thats the beauty of the game. Its economy is completely player driven and CCP never really interferes. If you're a WoW player you'll have a hard time understanding how its possible to steal massive amounts of ingame currency but thats because WoW has a very restricted and sandboxed market plus all the goodies are "soulbound" (which imo sucks) while on EVE everything can be bought and sold. (you can even buy drugs and prostitutes in the form of items)

I feel that the people commenting here don't realize fully what kind of game EVE-online is.

First of; the EBank that the ISK got stolen from does not use game banking mechanics. Its just a corporation (for those more familiar with fantasy games such as WoW then you can put guild there instead) made up of a handful of players.

Second; In EVE NO ONE can buy ISK with cash. It is against the EULA. It is allowed how ever to buy PLEX's (Pilot License Extensions as the fine people at Concord call it) for real world money and sell them in game for ISK.

Third; EBank and the whole of the second market (Financial market in EVE, which is entirely run by players with no mechanics from the game to help) is not risk free. There are loads of scams and there have been people loosing billions of ISK on scams there since the dawn of the market.

Conclusion; After reading those three points above you should see that stealing in EVE is a part of the game and asking the GM's to help you get it back will make them laugh at you (seriously), selling ISK for real money is against the EULA so you would get punished for that by getting your character banned and finally saying, as MDillenbeck did, that since players paid real life money for the PLEX then sold it for in game money and then lost the ISK they should get it paid back is idiotic! The whole point with EVE is that you can back stab, steal, murder and pillage all you like without any consequences.

EVE-Online - Leave your ethics at the door!

Noted... My point still stands in general regarding this guy's (his type) "unethical" actions. And if "anything" goes, then this article wouldn't even be posted if he didn't do anything "wrong," since there is no "wrong" according to your POV. Sounds like a contradiction in terms; aka you/most people think it's "anything goes," UNTIL YOU GET CAUGHT? Lmao... "gamers," what a waste of time/life; glad I cut all that nonsense out and found ways in RL to EARN REAL money... Damn I'm so glad I stopped "gaming!" I've got friends, adults who still talk about this drivel, while surfing couches, bumming off their parents, forgoing a social-life with friends and WOMEN < Gaming? Sad...