U.S. Court: Software is Owned, Not Licensed
Autodesk said that its products are licensed, not owned. A recent ruling says otherwise.
Most software publishers believe that their products are licensed, not owned. Most consumers disagree, saying that once they shell out the ridiculous gobs of money for said products, it's theirs for keeps no matter what publishers claim. This mentality especially holds true for Windows, with consumers purchasing one copy and installing it on multiple PCs. But as most consumers already know, Microsoft squashed those hopes and dreams with the release of Genuine Advantage, making it impossible for multiple installations without applying a WGA crack.
But there may now be some hope for consumers. In its battle to prevent the second-hand sale of its software, Autodesk has discovered that the "products are licensed" theory just doesn't jive with the government. According to Out-Law, the US District Court for the Western District of Washington is backing eBay retailer Timothy Vernor who was selling legitimate copies of Autodesk software in his eBay store.
Originally, Autodesk said Vernor didn't have the right to sell the software, claiming copyright infringement because the company only sells licenses. The court disagreed, and said that Vernor had every right to sell the software in his eBay store. The court based its decision on the previous "Wise" case, a ruling that said an actress had ownership over a Hollywood film because the rights were transferred to her name via a previous agreement.
With that said, the court made a groundbreaking decision that may effect every software publisher from here on out. "The Autodesk License is a hodgepodge of terms that, standing alone, support both a transfer of ownership and a mere license," the ruling dictated. However, the court eventually concluded that the previous Wise case "leads to the conclusion that the transfer of AutoCAD copies via the License is a transfer of ownership."
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So, let me get this straight. I own a piece of software, therefore, I can copy it as many times as I like and sell it?
Sounds good to me! Thanks, U.S. Court!
if that becomes the case, companies will not be able sell software because they will only sell one copy.
Licensing? Do these software companies take us for fools? I paid the money for the pretty Windows box and the software inside, I walk out of the store with the package in my hands. That's ownership.
^
No. How I interpreted it, is they were saying that if you buy a piece of software/license and you sell that software, the license transfers to the new owner.
my comment was directed at precariousgray. I was just slow hitting submit, I guess =)
this is huge if generates enough awareness due to the precedent that was created; it could be that the end of stupid DRM is near, as any owner of any piece of software, including games, would be entitled to make his own back-up copy and install it on multiple systems.
I hate lawyers and frivolous lawsuits, but I only hope that an avalance of such lawsuits, or even a few class-action suits will follow; the most important thing is to raise awareness about this and tell anyone you know and has been burned by DRM issues...
I don't think that spending $100 or so on something that cost millions to produce makes us owners of that something, but I would say that we should be owners of one copy of that something or 3 in a family pack or whatever . We should not be able to reproduce and sell our copy, but we should be able to sell our one, or however many copies without keeping another for ourselves.
Exactly. They are just saying that you own the software. You own the disk and however many USERlicenses you purchased. You can install it that many time OR you can resell it with the same amount of licenses. No one is saying you can copy software a million times. The liceses only means you are licenses to use it for whatever number of users you purchased.
I'm not sure I like the tone of this article, especially the "ridiculous gobs of money". Software costs "ridiculous gobs of money" to develop and support. I'm not even too happy about the "transfer of license" ruling; unlike most second-hand items, used software is just as functional as new software. There would be little to no incentive for a user to buy a new copy of used software was available. Autodesk should be entitled to a percentage at minimum.
"ok, people own software, everyone thank Autodesk for bringing this to our attention"
Microsoft,apple and every other software company then stares down Autodesk and beat him when he walks out.
i will be happy when i can install windows and office as many times as i want.
.ummmm I guess you don't own your PC, Cell Phone, or your car. All of those items cost millions and in some cases BILLIONS of dollars to create. When you buy your Dell laptop, you own it. You Toyota, you own it. When you buy Windows 7, you own that COPY of Windows 7. If you sell THAT copy, then Microsoft looses nothing.
Corporations create products and unless they are renting or leasing that product as a service, when you pay for it you own it.
Where is Judge Judy when you need her!
Ummm.. I believe this means, if you own a software, and decides that you don't need it anymore, you can sell it (permitting that you are not going to use it anymore) - hence, the transfer of ownership.
This does not mean that you can just install on many PCs at once. (The ownership has been transferred, so you cannot use it legally)
One copy, once license, yours to do as you wish. Period. No illegal copying and distributing. You own ONE copy. If you have TEN "legit" copies of a program, lets say... boxes and all, then you still have TEN legit copies to sell as you wish.
Why would they be entitled to anything? They are not out of anything. They still have the money they received when the original owner purchased the software. If he resells it and doesn't keep it, they are not out of anything. Even though it works "like" new, the new owner is not entitled to upgrades or new versions, UNLESS he purchased it new, registered it new.
Again, that is like Honda saying you cannot sell your car. They are out of more money than AutoCad cost.
I'm not sure I like the tone of this article, especially the "ridiculous gobs of money". Software costs "ridiculous gobs of money" to develop and support. I'm not even too happy about the "transfer of license" ruling; unlike most second-hand items, used software is just as functional as new software. There would be little to no incentive for a user to buy a new copy of used software was available. Autodesk should be entitled to a percentage at minimum.
when you sell your house or your car, they are still functional and I don't see you giving money back to Chrysler or whatever company you bought it from; according to your theory, you should give back that percentage, regardless of the quality of the product, if you are able to make money off of it.
Incentive for buying new software: registration, which entitles you to customer support, and which is "dedicated" to that license; a good quality CD/ DVD, and so on...
So I can choose to SELL my copy old of Windows XP after I upgrade to Windows 7?
You all hear that??? that faint plopping sound accompanied by a groan... it's the sound of every software CEO collectively crapping their pants.
In all seriousness though, there is no way this ruling will stand for long, and not to the extent we all wish it would. Sure some smartass end user might take it to mind to install his single copy of Windows 7 on all three of his computers, and try to throw it on his brother's and girlfriends computers to boot, and he will be denied. And when he finds a daring enough (or bored enough) lawyer to take the case and attempt to start a class action lawsuit again M$, guess who can afford bigger guns...
It's a nice idea, but let's not all go getting bonerrific at the idea that WGA and other DRMs are going to be disabled anytime in the next 5 years.
...and it should work without a hitch on the new owner's PC, correct?
So I can choose to SELL my copy old of Windows XP after I upgrade to Windows 7?
I don't think it works like that. You still use the xp license.
.ummmm I guess you don't own your PC, Cell Phone, or your car. All of those items cost millions and in some cases BILLIONS of dollars to create. When you buy your Dell laptop, you own it. You Toyota, you own it. When you buy Windows 7, you own that COPY of Windows 7. If you sell THAT copy, then Microsoft looses nothing. Corporations create products and unless they are renting or leasing that product as a service, when you pay for it you own it. Where is Judge Judy when you need her!
Apparently you didn't read the second half of my post where I explained that you should own a copy of the software.
Also when you buy a Toyota, you don't own the design features and patents that make that car work or the right to copy those features and build your own Toyotas to sell. You only own the one piece of metal that you drove off the lot.
I don't think it works like that. You still use the xp license.
But I'm selling my Windows XP Installation disc. Shouldn't that license transfer WITH the sale to the new owner? Windows XP will not be on my PC's anymopre - Windows 7 will be.
Well, it's good to know that "ownership" implies ACTUAL ownership, not some fantasy legal interpretation thereof, and that, therefore, given the article states "Software is Owned," that means I should be able to do as I please with the software in question -- such as copying it a million times for distribution. If I am unable to do this, then the software is not actually owned, and therefore, it seems Toms Hardware editors' horrible writing skills strike again.
I look forward to many thumbs down for my rational interpretation of factual information.
I Agree. If the software is truely owned, then it can be modified, cracked, copied, and resold in any shape or form from the "owner"
I think it's fair that they can limit the amount of machines you put the software on. You don't buy a car, then duplicate it so everyone in the family can have one. and really, the only distinction between doing this and just putting it up on a torrent is that you're "only giving it to your other computers... and your family... and your really good friend..."
which really isn't a distinction at all.
also, I don't think the article was saying you can't license software, what they were saying is that if you sell a license to someone, they OWN that license, just like they would own any other product sold. this gives them the right to sell THEIR license to another person, which - just like any other product - means you no longer own the license, the person you sold it to does. however, I don't think they were having a go at the other terms of a license - including install limits - basically what autodesk was trying to do was give out a "license to use a license", which the court naturally found was stupid.
wow, the software companies arn't gonna let this decesion stay. And, with XP... I bought it and have installed it over 20 times WITHOUT any crack. The secret? When your 5 licenses expires, don't auto-connect to the internet. Instead call microsofts automated phone service. It works every time! I've only been asked once or twice if I had used the key before and I just say no and they give me the activation key.
A car cost billions to design and a lot to buy. It's not licensed to me. The same with the hardware. It really doesn't matter how much it cost to develope the CPU, once I buy it as a consumer it's mine. To claim that software is any different is idiotic. They provided a product I said, sure, bought it and now it's mine. It's their job to make up what they spent to research it by selling enough of them. Software companies however seems to be of the idea that they're only licensing their product to us, we don't own them but they don't take any responsibility of them if they cause our hardware to malefunction, other then patching it. They can't have it both way.
Naturally that means that if I buy a copy I only have the rights to use it on one machine, but it doesn't matter if I copy it in return in order to have a backup. Some people abuse it and sell their copies to others, some people abuse it and tries to install it on other systems. It's up to the manufacturer to decide whether or not they should create some kind of 'block' to stop a user from doing that. Other then that It's my copy and it remains that until I throw it away or sell it.
well this is good news for psystar in their case against apple. it mean they were right and apple was wrong.
All I can think is that this is a good thing because this might prevent more Spore-like and Mass Effect-like DRM from being created since we have the right to say they are limiting the use of something we own.
Not to say there probably isn't a way around it taking into consideration that large corporations probably can get out of a lot of stuff if they try hard enough and throw enough money at it but at least this might be a strong deterrent.
Also whats with all the negativity no matter what this is good for the consumer and unless you have some kind of financial ties to the software companies this doesn't affect you much and even if you are it doesn't affect you much since it was never illegal to sell software that you owned. All this really changes is that the software companies can't get on our backs about selling the software we bought.
ability not right* correction in first paragraph
But I'm selling my Windows XP Installation disc. Shouldn't that license transfer WITH the sale to the new owner? Windows XP will not be on my PC's anymopre - Windows 7 will be.
An upgrade does not give you an additional license; it supplants your existing license. If you were to sell your (full, not upgrade) XP disk, it would be unlicensed. That's why you didn't have to pay full price for Win 7.
I'm not sure I like the tone of this article, especially the "ridiculous gobs of money". Software costs "ridiculous gobs of money" to develop and support. I'm not even too happy about the "transfer of license" ruling; unlike most second-hand items, used software is just as functional as new software. There would be little to no incentive for a user to buy a new copy of used software was available. Autodesk should be entitled to a percentage at minimum.
A percentage of what? A percentage of the resale? They are adding nothing to the product, so they deserve no more money for the product. Older software may work the exact same as it did from day one, but that is a double-edge sword. There may be better software, or that software might have no use on the day it is sold.
If I purchase 10 new cars, then resale every one of them, the car manufacturer has no right to demand more money from me or the new owner. That is just asinine, as is your comment.