What do you think?

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Hi Everyone,
This is my first post at Tom's. I figured there's so many knowledgeable people here that it would be a good place to get some insight on my questions. Please accept my apology in advance as I'm going to mention things that extend beyond Mobos and chipsets. Basically, I'm buying a new rig soon and would really like some input from the (many) people who know more than I do. Firstly, here's a list of my components.

Athlon XP 1.53 *Retail Box* *or??*
Asus A7V333 (DDR) *or??*
Thermaltake Volcano 7 Fan *or??*
512MB PC2700 333mhz DDR RAM (OR 512mb 266mhz DDR, depends on price of 333)
80 Gig Maxtor DMA133 IDE *or??*
Asus Geforce4 Ti-4600 128MB (if available, no video card if not)
Sony DVD
Plextor 24/10/40 CDRW
SoundBlaster Live! 5.1
Yamaha m40 speakers
Viewsonic P95 19"
Medium ATX Tower 400 watt
Logitech MouseMan Dual Optical
No Keyboard
No OS

Ok, so here are my questions.

1. Should I fork out the extra dough for a faster processor or is overclocking a viable solution? The cost increases ridiculously for smaller and smaller increments in speed between processors(i.e. XP 1700, 1800, 1900, 2000 etc.)

2. I live in Canada, the Asus A7V333 won't be here for while, but the MSI KT333 has arrived. Is it worth waiting for the Asus? (considering the negligible performance gains in Tom's review) Moreover, is it worth waiting for KT333a instead?

3. I know nothing about fans. I picked the Volcano cause it sounds cool - I'll need to read up, but any suggestions are appreciated.

4. Ok, I hear that 333mhz ddr ram is bottlenecked by the 266mhz fsb on the current AMD processors (not to mention the CL2 issue), so I'll never see a performance gain unless I upgrade my processor when 166mhz fsb comes out (sledgehammer?). Should I just save my dough and go for 266 instead, and a 266 board for that matter (ie. a7v266)? Do the benefits of USB 2.0, 133 DMA Support, 333ddr support outweigh the costs?

5. Assume I go for a 333 mobo that supports 133 DMA. Will I get better performance from a Maxtor drive with 133 DMA support and 2mb cache or the new Western Digital drives with 8mb cache?

6. Raid or not to Raid?

7. Any gamers have experience with MouseMan Dual optical? I've heard some good things, but as a diehard quaker, I'm quite accustomed to a wheel mouse...opinions?

8. Is 512mb RAM enough?

9. Given the choice between win98se, win2kpro and winXP, which would you choose as your OS?

That's about it. The main purpose of this machine will be games and 3D Studio MAX, Premiere, Photoshop etc. I'm willing to pay good money, but obivously not out to get ripped off either...I figure I've got the makings for a tidy kick ass little rig here, but it could use some tweaking (hence this post ;)

I'm really looking forward to some replies.

Thanks and have a great day.

Buckwilde

"Better to shut your mouth for fear of souding like a fool then open it and leave no doubt"
-Mark Twain

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Holy Questions Batman!

Here's my 2 cents...

for the cpu.. Retail box gives you a stock heat sink fan (hsf) and a longer warranty (a few years I think). If you are going to overclock, you'll probably want to just get the OEM cpu (short/no warranty). Most people get OEM cpu's and then pick a good hsf (such as the Volcano 7... which is good - I use one) The Volcano 7 is cost effective, and the variable fan speed can result in a quieter system. If you plan on agressively overclocking you might want to fork out more money for a top performing top-of-the-line hsf.

Also about the cpu... if you can wait until the thoroughbred is released by AMD in a week or two, you can either pick one of those up (which will likely overclock much better than current XP's), or at least it will drop the price of the current XP's if you don't wish to agressively overclock. (I personally got an 1800XP+ last month because it was the sweet spot for the price - jumping up an additional $100 to the 1900 didn't make sense)

512mb of RAM is fine for just about anything right now. My rule of thumb is to leave a RAM slot open on the motherboard to allow me to buy more if my needs grow in the future (so if you have only 2 ram slots... buy 1 512 stick?) Getting good brand name RAM can save a lot of headaches, and is absolutely necessary if you plan on overclocking. DDR rated at PC2400, PC2700 and PC3000 basically just give you a guarantee that the ram won't be a bottleneck in raising the fsb when you overclock. However, PC2100 from Crucial or Mushkin high performance DDR (and some other brands) will overclock just as well as some of the higher rated ram.

For the hard drive, you would almost certainly get better performance from a WD drive with the 8mb buffer. The 133 DMA drives don't get any real performance boost in current systems.

For the motherboard... it would be nice to get an upwardly mobile motherboard. Waiting a short while (a few weeks) might let you snag a nice 333 based mobo with good options :) It also fits nicely with the thoroughbred timeline :)

Finally... the OS... just about everyone and anyone will tell you to go Win2k or WinXP.

Win2k is a sterile, stable, kick-ass operating system. WinXP is Win2k with a teletubby interface and some goodies added (the activiation scheme sucks royally though). I personally suggest going to XP since everything will be geared towards it moving forward... driver support, etc, etc... and it is a sweet OS once you get used to the look of it. (you can make it look like Win2k if you really want)

Cheers! It's always nice helping out a fellow Canadian :)

:cool: <font color=purple><b>You have just proven that signature advertising works!</b></font color=purple> :cool:

Reply to Tiberius13

Hi Tiberius,
Thanks alot for your clear and informative input, I really appreciate it and think some of my questions are closer to being answered. Its always nice to get help from a fellow Canadian :) (or anyone else for that matter!)

Take care!
Buck

Reply to Anonymous
- 0 +

OK, ill take a stab at this too....

1- Id get the CPU with best price/performance at the time of purchase. Waiting for the Tbreds aint a bad idea!

2- I am afraid I cant answer this one too well as I am not familiar with the MSI board, but I have not heard anyone bitch about it either. If the price is right and the Asus isnt around when you buy go for it, but maybe others can give better info.

3- If you get retail the fan is fine, otherwise I would look at a variable speed fan like the volcano. If you plan to OC you may need something better.

4- DDR333 is a good buy as long as the price is not a huge increase. The DDR333 does help performance and has the added benefit of being slightly more future proof.

5- Western Digital 8 meg all the way. 133 is a gimmick at this point and serial ATA will be better. Bottom line is 133 will have no impact on performance.

6- RAID! I love raid myself, but some may argue. However the apps you are using could take good advantage of RAID cuz disk access is important for image and video manipulation so even the doubters should agree.

7- Nope, cant tell you about the mouseman. I use a basic scroll mouse and love it!

8- 512 is plenty for most people. The apps you are using are memory hogs so more MIGHT help, but 512 will vertainly gett the job done. Just be sure to leave at least one slot open to expend if you turn out to need more =)

9- I like win2k. All the crap with XP annoys me, but you can disable it all so its not too bad. 98 is outta the question, it would hinder you painfully with your setup.

Hope this all helps =)

Jesus saves, but Mario scores!!!

Reply to kief

Just commenting...

I agree with bang for the buck processors, so ~1700+ or 1800+ for $15 extra. Don't spend too much over $100 because TBred is around the corner.

HSF, well if you aren't gonna overclock it doesn't matter (to an extent). Some of the popular choices for OCing are the Alpha and Swiftec if you are rich, the Thermalright AX-7 if you are smart, and the Thermaltake SK6 if you are somewhere in between. As for the Volcano 7 it's alright, I would go with the 7+ since it performs a better. It's hard to beat the AX-7 though since you can use a nice quiet fan and get great numbers.

RAM, fork out the extra $15 bucks for the DDR333. Samsung and Kingmax are very cost effective and should run stock speeds at CAS2 easily (someone correct me if I am wrong though). I personally don't like Corsair because they are just marked up Samsungs. OCZ and Mushkin are popular also and not too expensive.

Make sure you have the power to run all this equipment. Antec, Enermax, Sparkle 350W or higher.

Ti4600 should last you a while.

Join the WinXP bandwagon, become assimilated, resistance is futile. Turn off the bells and whistles you don't like and keep it updated and it will be stable enough.

I would RAID if I could. Can't afford to though =(

Mouse? Am I the only one using a neural interface? j/k
It's a personal choice, if you like it, then it's fine.

Can't think of much else. Make sure you have at least an exhaust fan blowing hot air out and a decent intake vent. Some people run 12 fans in the case but I have no problems with using 1 as exhaust only. Intake fans aren't very helpful IMHO.

Calendil

Reply to Anonymous
- 0 +

1. The 1700+ and 1800+ are good price points. If you're not in a hurry, and looking to OC anyway, wait for the T-breads. Also, if you want to OC, get the OEM, as you void the retail the other way.

2. I love ASUS. I have yet to get an ASUS board I didn't like. If you are waiting for the T-Bread, waiting for the Asus board might not be bad. Especialy, with the KT333 chip and PC2700 ram, you can easily move the FSB up to 166 to OC your T-Bread, and they should be able to handel it. Otherwise, USB 2.0 isn't in much use yet, and ATA100 is hitting a wall on the motherboard bandwidth anyway, so ATA133 isn't going to do much, so the asus A7V266-e should do you well if you aren't going to wait.

3. The Volcano 7 is good. The Volcano 7+ is good for an OCer. It has better heat dissepation, and you can manualy control the fan for your own comfort level of noise and heat.

4. See my #2. If you aren't going to push the FSB, then don't bother spending more on the ram unless it's not much more. It will be usefull in later boards for later processors, but Hammer will not run in a Socket A anyway, so you would have to rebuild most of the computer anyway.

5. Go with whatever drive does the best performance in ATA 100 and you feel comfortable with. I usually stick with WD, but that's just a personal preference.

6. Both. Do not raid with your boot drive, but if you need lots of space anyway, Raid with a secondary drive. If you do raid on your boot drive, run in 0+1 RAID so you don't run the risk of loosing all your data with a problem with just one disk.

7. I have the Microsoft Optical Explorer (or something like that, it's got 2 extra buttons on the sides of the normal 2 buttons) and I like it a lot. Made me think of moving back to a mouse from my Trackman Marble. Ultimately, it's personal taste as to what you like.

8. 512 (2 x 256) will be enough, but if you can spare the cash, nothing wrong with going with either 3 x 256, or 2 x 512. See above for 2100 vs 2700

9. Win 2K Pro is very good and stable. Win 98 is asking for trouble with what you would be doing. Win XP Pro might work for you, it's still being smoothed out, but eventualy it will be a better platform for many things than Win 2K. It might be easier however to start with 2K and move to XP later.

10. Videocard, I would sudgest you look into the new flavor of Radeon that should be coming out soon. The 8500 tweek should have a faster clock speed and 128 MB of ram, and still be priced lower than the GF4 TI4600.

11. If money isn't an object, mind sharing some? :wink:

I do not like it Tom you see,
I do not like green PCB.

Reply to bront
- 0 +

I think these guys Touched on about everything and gave you IMHO pretty damn good Info..

I personally would just wait for the T-bred and the Kt333 chipset...

other then that..everything i think was explained perfectly

How would life be if there were no Computer's? That would Suck!!

Reply to Rob423

Wow, thanks a load for all your help guys! Everything makes alot more sense now. The last time I bought a PC (late 1998) I payed $3400 CAN for a PII 350, 128mb, 5 gig drive and a Matrox G400 (lol!) with a decent Optiquest monitor and a crappy burner (CDR) :P . I picked the parts for my 'beast' at the local shop and paid handsomely. This brings me to my LAST question. Where is the best place to shop? Online (all from one place or price hunt from various sites)? From the corner store? Through a connection? I suppose there is no concrete approach to this, but if some of you would like to share your experiences with buying and building a new rig, it would be awesome.

Again, many many thanks for all your input.

Have a great day!
Buck

"Better to shut your mouth for fear of souding like a fool then open it and leave no doubt"
-Mark Twain

Reply to Anonymous

www.newegg.com

If you find other sources you can check them out at:

www.resellerratings.com

Hard to beat a quality online merchant especially if you have some computer smarts. All online merchants will be more of a hassle if something goes wrong. The key is not to let that happen. Matching billing/shipping addresses, knowledge of the platform you are building, and the ability to pay attention to details help things go smoothly. Double check everything before you hit that power button for the first time.

Calendil

Reply to Anonymous

I'll add a vote for newegg.com

Reply to cellbiogeek

So now you want to know where to buy the computer/parts.... Considering that you are Canadian, it makes things a bit more of a hassle than it is for Americans. They have a bunch of great online sites to help them get the best bang for their buck. I don't think newegg.com ships to Canada... and even if they did, whatever you buy will suffer from currency conversion and then possibly get hit with some additional charges from the CCRA as it crosses the border.. ?

If you are in the Toronto area, I can recommend a few places I have used before.

KV Computers: www.kvcomputers.com - I got a Pentium 90 *bleeding edge* system from these guys back in.... 1995? I thought they were the best place to get a system made from quality components for a great price back then... and they are still around now. I guess that says something?

Infonec: www.infonec.com - I just bought a system from these guys at their Mississauga location last month. I definitely recommend them as they have great pricing and really seemed to know their stuff.

Wintronics: www.wintroniccomputers.com - I bought a system from these guys last April. They offer great prices and the service was decent (they swapped a stick or RAM that was causing me problems after 9 months without any hassle) but the general vibe I got from them was kinda blah.

In Ottawa I'm aware of www.shoprbc.com

and www.ncix.com is a huge online site with a Canadian setup out of Vancouver where you could buy components over the internet and have them shipped to you - if you choose to buy your system in pieces.

:cool: <font color=purple><b>You have just proven that signature advertising works!</b></font color=purple> :cool:

Reply to Tiberius13

If you are running only exhaust fans then the case will have negative pressure. What this means is that it will suck dust dirt etc.. in every opening in the case. CD,floppy,CDRW, and all input/output jacks.

It is better to have a slightly positive case pressure.

I aint signing nothing!!!

Reply to Rick_Criswell
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