GeForce 3... me don't care

By reading the THG article, I fall in love with GeForce3.
I'm geek and I want this very badly.
Unfortunately, nVidia only support toy OS.
I use BeOS, and it seems I can only wait for ATi Radeon2.

Long Live ATi for supporting BeOS.

Get BeOS (http://free.be.com)
The Best ever Operating System

>ATI supports BeoS? Really?

According to this, ATi & 3DFx support BeOS.
http://www.benews.com/story/3760
http://www.benews.com/story/3587

>Don't know much about BeoS. Can you fill us in?

BeOS is a new OS created from scracth.
It's more advance than Linux (Linux is based on Unix)
and it's more advance than WinNT (NT is based on Windows)
You could find some BeOS news on
* http://www.benews.com
* http://www.beoscentral.com

Or download BeOS from:
* http://free.be.com
* http://www.gobe.com
* http://www.bebits.com

some BeOS tips:
http://ww.betips.net

NVidia say no to BeOS.
http://www.benews.com/story/3813



Get BeOS (http://free.be.com)
The Best ever Operating System

Exactly. What's the point in supporting an OS that has hardly any users? Companies will support the one that will win them the most customers first and work down the list from there.

What's the point of using an OS that has NONE of the software support that I need? I think if any OS could be called a 'toy OS', it's BeOS. Think about it. It's written by a bunch of people with nothing better to do. It has crap for hardware support. It has crap for software titles. It's only used by people too cheap to pay the people that have worked hard to write good code. Even Linux is more accepted than BeOS, and it's only major selling point is the price. Yes, Linux is better than Windows in some ways. But it's user interface still needs a LOT of work to be as stong and user-friendly as Windows.

BeOS? It's the toyest of all the OS's out there.

Pah.

I'll use my Windows system and have my GeForce3 right when it comes out, thank you very much. And then I'll play every game that comes out then and supports it, all right then. I'll have driver revisions when they're needed. I'll have software patches when they're needed. Why? Because I use Windows.

- Sanity is purely based on point-of-view.

>By "toy OS" I assume you mean those with an installed base greater than 10k.
>I'm sure if BEOS ever took off, then nVidia would support it.

I really hope so.
It seems a bit imposible right now because nVidia has been laid by MS.

>Seems kind of nonsensical right now.

See...
This is a chicken and egg problem (catch-22).

If BeOS wanted to success it should have supported A, B & C.
But in order A, B & C to support BeOS, it should be success first.

>In fact, if I were ATI, I would worry about getting Win2k right before worrying about BEOS.

You were right.
ATi doesn't build driver for BeOS.
But when Be talked to ATi that they want to support Radeon & Rage, ATi give Be the documentation.
Whereas, nVidia refuse to give Be the needed documentation to support TNT/GeForce.
And nVidia doesn't want to build for the driver either.

And nVidia already stated that they *WOULD* never support BeOS.
It's a pitty.
Such a great product, but I can't use (and won't recomended it to a friend either).

Get BeOS (http://free.be.com)
The Best ever Operating System

First off, I gotta tell ya, the BeOS chicken and egg paradox is not nvidia's to solve. If they really want to be a "company," then it rests on BE and BE alone. That nvidia doesn't want the hassle of working with BE to ensure that their drivers work for a puny 50k market seems to be a pretty wise decision, in my business opinion. It's not as simple as "giving the documentation" since, at the end of the day, someone has to support the driver.

Second, as for them saying "never," what any business means is "never until I think I can make a real profit in that market." If BeOS took off, by some miracle of God, then nVidia would have a driver out in 3 months time.

Third, what exactly is at this link if not a BEOS driver for all nvidia products? http://www.bebits.com/app/1622

Lastly, why wouldn't you recommend it to a friend who uses Win9x? Are you that petty that you'd rather have your *friend* get a lesser card because you chose a mickey mouse OS? (No offense to ATI, as the point is more whether this guy would actually be unbiased if the OS were different)

-------------------------------------
Nature abhors a moron. -- HL Mencken

Linux is better than Window in server, but not in home/office user.
Linux is better than BeOS in Server, but not in home/office user.
BeOS is better than Linux/Window in home/office user

The newer versions of Linux (I use Caldera) is pretty damn good for home use. Runs all the games I play, GIMP is fantastic and I've never managed to crash it. Still have win 98 for some of the other software (Bryce, Truespace and a few games that don't support Linux).

But Linux is growing for home use. (BTW I use Caldera on my server too)

I have to admit the Beos disc that I have has never been in one of my machines - never had the time to try it out.

Hmmmm... Donuts

>This BeOS actually looks interesting, one problem....I play online games, surf the net,
>run a website and temp servers at time, and program (windows visual c++) as well as use
>basic word processing etc etc.....what can I use BeOS for, what is it compadible with?

Well, BeOS is new.
And it doesn't have all kind of software.
If you want to use BeOS right now, you can only use it for
surf the net (Mozilla 0.8, Opera 3.62, N+), run a web site (Robin Hood, Apache). Basic Word Processing (Gobe, Abi Word).
To program you will need BeIDE (free from http://free.be.com), but it's not compatible with Windows.
About online game, you can't use it with BeOS yet. That's why some of us still have Windows & BeOS at the same time. And that's why I called Windows the toy OS.


Get BeOS (http://free.be.com)
The Best ever Operating System

Replying to my self

>If ATi card and nVidia card price/performance not far apart.
>Then I will defenetely suggest ATi card. For example.
>I recomend ATi Radeon 32MB DDR over GeForceMX. And I
>recomend ATi Radeon 64MB DDR over GeForce2GTS. But if
>my friend wanted more power such as GF2Ultra or the
>new GF3, then nVidia is the only choice.

Or I could tell my friend that asked me for advice to wait for Radeon2.

Get BeOS (http://free.be.com)
The Best ever Operating System

>Just out of interest take a look at this link
>http://www.bebits.com/app/1622
>Oh no it's a unified nVidia driver for BEos!
>How did I find it - from the nVidia website - isn't life complicated!

Be made this driver.
This driver is 2D only. Because nVidia only gave Be the 2D specs.
When BeOS run any OpenGL 3D, it render in software (slow).

Whereas the Radeon & V5 will have driver that support both 2D & 3D.

Get BeOS (http://free.be.com)
The Best ever Operating System

>LOL, well this begs the question: why do you need a GF2 to run those things?
>Heck, why bother upgrading from the TNT2? You certainly don't need a Radeon either.

I want to run game at 1024x768x32bpp


>You've really made nvidia's point for them: there is no
>viable reason for them to develop or support BEOS drivers
>since they have neither the market nor the apps that would take advantage of it.

Right.
But the day will came for sure.
BeOS right now is like Linux 2 years ago -- No company wanted to support it.

I'm waiting for Black & White (a game) that will run on Windows, BeOS, Linux, MacOS.
And by the time the game ships, nVidia were far too late.


Get BeOS (http://free.be.com)
The Best ever Operating System

You're just WAY over-dramatic about your precious BeOS. As we went through last time.

I never said anything like, "BeOS sucks."

You complain that, "Every time I post some message in THG about BeOS. You quickly make BeOS look ugly."

Well, maybe that in itself should say a LOT. After all, it isn't like it even takes effort to make it look ugly. It IS ugly. It's based on some interesting concepts, I'll give it that. But it's implementation is so horrible that in reality, it's in no way better than Linux or Windows.

I just thoroughly prove why it's such a pitiful waste for most people. A very rare few find any actual use for it. It has crap for hardware support and crap for software.

Why do people need to set up dual boot systems with it? Because it doesn't meet their needs. It's just THAT simple.

I mean let's face it, does it offer ANY advantage to anyone? Price. That's it.

I'd rather use Linux than BeOS.

And for your information, I happen to dislike Microsoft greatly. They write buggy code and charge people for upgrades that should have been free service patches.

But I'd like to see anyone prove that MS doesn't hold the world by the balls. They have the vast majority of software titles, and their OS is easier to use than any version of Linux I've seen.

One day Linux will finally get that part of their code together, and it might even one day compete strongly with Windows. But to do that the Linux communities are going to have to agree upon some standards and work together instead of against each other.

Meanwhile, BeOS has what? In theory, it sounds useful. In practice, it isn't. And in support of hardware and software, it's crap.

Do I need a whole new OS just to run a word processor or an email program or to surf the net? Hell no! Who in the world is insane enough to set up a dual boot for that?! Well, according to you 50,000 people. Let's see, compared to the population of the Earth that's how many percent? Hmm ... do decimal places go down THAT far? **ROFL**

Don't get me wrong. If YOU find BeOS useful, that's nice.

If people want to use BeOS, they have every right to. I won't even so much as say that they shouldn't.

But to go around calling BeOS the best OS ever when it's so useless to so many people, well, I just can't stand for anyone trying to warp people's minds like that.

You sit there and call me under Microsoft's control when I can sit down and name off a mile long list of complaints that I have against Microsoft and when I root for Linux. You obviously don't have even a quarter of a clue who I am or what I think. So don't YOU go telling ME what I think. Got that you moron?

And for Pete's sake, stop turning this forum into an advertising campaign for BeOS. If people want to try it, they will. You don't have to cram it down their throats.

So go off and play with your little toy OS, because you obviously have no idea about anything and have nothing intelligent to say. You couldn't make one good argument for why anyone should use BeOS before, and I doubt you ever will.

- Sanity is purely based on point-of-view.

>You're just WAY over-dramatic about your precious BeOS. As we went through last time.
>I never said anything like, "BeOS sucks."

Liar...
When I first post in THG about dual motherboard.
I wrote that I want THG to test dual processor mobo with several OS.
And please compare it with: NT4/2000, Linux kernel 2.3/2.4 (more is better), BeOS R4.5/R5.
I want to know which OS is better in Dual processor env.
I have read a lot about this, but never read it from hardware reviewer that I trust the most
(THG).

When I post for THG to benchmark with those OS,
you then discredit BeOS.
You wrote that THG shouldn't use/try BeOS because nobody use it, it's crap, not supporting your hardware, and not supporting your software. Now you want to tell the other way around??? LIAR

I don't expect Tom or other THG reviewer use BeOS as their everyday OS.
I just want to tell THG that one of their reader use BeOS, and want them
to include it in dual processor test, because Be claim that BeOS is the best in dual env.
And I don't know if it's true.

>You complain that, "Every time I post some message in THG about BeOS.
>You quickly make BeOS look ugly."
>Well, maybe that in itself should say a LOT. After all, it isn't like it even takes effort to make it look
>ugly. It IS ugly. It's based on some interesting concepts, I'll give it that. But it's implementation is so
>horrible that in reality, it's in no way better than Linux or Windows.

See what I mean....
You always over react when I posted about BeOS.
I read that MS paid people to post in newsgroup.
And if someone said you is one of them, I would believe it.

>I just thoroughly prove why it's such a pitiful waste for most people. A very rare few find
>any actual use for it. It has crap for hardware support and crap for software.

Another MS FUD??

>Why do people need to set up dual boot systems with it?
>Because it doesn't meet their needs. It's just THAT simple.

Because the OS is good, that's why they use it for most of the task.
But unfortunately, it lacks some apps that make them dual boot for a while.

>I mean let's face it, does it offer ANY advantage to anyone? Price. That's it.
>I'd rather use Linux than BeOS.

Linux is more free than BeOS.
Your post here has no point.
Another FUD by slvr_phoenix the liar man.

>And for your information, I happen to dislike Microsoft greatly.
>They write buggy code and charge people for upgrades that
>should have been free service patches.

Well,
I happend to like MS.
I grown up with Windows 3.x/9x.
And I believe is their right to give/charge people for upgrade.
And although MS OS is not as good as other, they
know how to market it with good apps to make it good.

I use BeOS just because BeOS has more power, not because I hate MS.

>But I'd like to see anyone prove that MS doesn't hold the world by the balls.
>They have the vast majority of software titles, and their OS is easier to
>use than any version of Linux I've seen.

That's because they have been in these market longer than any other OS.
So they have more software titles.

>One day Linux will finally get that part of their code together, and it might even one
>day compete strongly with Windows.

I agree with you.

>But to do that the Linux communities are going to have to agree upon some
>standards and work together instead of against each other.

Not neceseraly.
This is what MS want other to believe.
This is MS FUD.
MS want discourage other to use Linux by saying that if Linux is not agree to some
standard then Linux is not good.

>Meanwhile, BeOS has what? In theory, it sounds useful. In practice, it isn't.

The OS has the most potential of all other OS out there.
It's usefull in practice. But it's lack some apps.
And THG as reviewer site should look into this wheter is it good or not,
whether is usefull or not.

>And in support of hardware and software, it's crap.

FUD again MR. phenix?

>Do I need a whole new OS just to run a word processor or an email program or to surf the net?
>Hell no!

Yes you right.
You don't need too.

>Who in the world is insane enough to set up a dual boot for that?!
>Well, according to you 50,000 people.

Not everybody created equal.
For average joe user Windows is good enough, because it has all their need.
But for some geek, we want more.
We want pure power.

>Let's see, compared to the population of the Earth that's how many percent?
>Hmm ... do decimal places go down THAT far? **ROFL**

good religion doesn't counted by their follower.
Could you say religion A is better than B because having more follower?

>Don't get me wrong. If YOU find BeOS useful, that's nice.
>If people want to use BeOS, they have every right to.
>I won't even so much as say that they shouldn't.

>But to go around calling BeOS the best OS ever when
>it's so useless to so many people, well, I just can't stand
>for anyone trying to warp people's minds like that.

Well,
let me repeat this one more time.
BeOS is stand for Best ever Operating System.
And it is....

The OS is great.
The apps is not there yet.

>You sit there and call me under Microsoft's control when I can sit down
>and name off a mile long list of complaints that I have against Microsoft
>and when I root for Linux. You obviously don't have even a quarter of
>a clue who I am or what I think. So don't YOU go telling ME what I think.
>Got that you moron?

People judge you by your act, not what your think.
When I read your post in this forum, I can say that you 100% against BeOS for no reason.

You just said it's bad, and you tell me to back off writing in this forum when I urging
THG to review it for dual mobo (from our battle in dual mobo forum).
Because BeOS doesn't run on your hardware, because your software can't be run in BeOS,
because you said BeOS is sux.

So, based on your post..... I judge you

>And for Pete's sake, stop turning this forum into an advertising campaign for BeOS.
>If people want to try it, they will. You don't have to cram it down their throats.

I don't running an advertise for BeOS.
And I hope you don't run anti-BeOS advertise.
You were the one who want to force people to think that BeOS is so bad. You were the moron.

>So go off and play with your little toy OS, because you obviously have no idea about
>anything and have nothing intelligent to say.

Ever learn the art of Zen?
You learn more by learning other.
I learn more about Windows when Using BeOS.
Because when I use BeOS I know what windows lack.

This is what inteligent are.
Do you know whistler has a feature that it stole form BeOS.
The feature is in BeOS since 1999.
MS sure know the art of Zen.
But I bet a moron like you didn't know anyting.

>You couldn't make one good argument for why anyone should use BeOS before,
>and I doubt you ever will.

Because there were no good reason why anyone should try BeOS.
BeOS is just like another OS (Linux, Windows, QNX, MacOS)... you named it.
There were no reason for other to change OS if the one they use is OK.

But, for reviewer like THG, using/learning multiple OS is a must.
Because THG can learn more by using multiple OS,
and THG can have more knowladge to share with it's reader.

Get BeOS (http://free.be.com)
The Best ever Operating System

Fair enough, but then - what is the point of having a computer that has 'potential' but can't actually do anything as it is? Thats stupid! It's like buying a car without an engine and saying 'well it has the potential to go really fast, but right now all we can do is sit in it'.

I know people like to fiddle with things, and I am no exception any interesting looking bits of software I like to try out, but most only end up being used once or twice because in the real world, they simply aren't very useful. If only OS like BeOS had more software and hardware support it might be a different matter, but even then, you are never gonna have the kind of support that Microsoft has, just because they have been around for so long.

Linux is still crap. No-one can convince me otherwise.

>I know Linux is getting better on desktop, but it still hard to use for joe user.
I would say fine to use (Caldera is anyway) absolute fugging B***tard to change any system settings (for joe user)

Hmmmm... Donuts

Dear seven bloody demons of Hailrond!

Do you actually get dumber as time progresses?

The last time you main such a todo about BeOS, I came to you with honest questions about what made it any better. And you instantly jumped on my as though I had somehow profained all that was good in the world.

Then when I finally do get some actual information out of you instead of just your crappy attitude, I come to hear that BeOS is in actuality no better than any other OS used. It may have been based on better concepts, but the way that they are implemented isn't better at all. And with how much it lacks in other areas, it's a wonder anyone would ever want to use it.

You call me a liar because you say that I tried to discredit BeOS. All I did was show just how much it fails to be everything you claim it to be. It wasn't ME who discredited BeOS. It was BeOS who discredited itself by NOT being what it could/should be. Or perhaps it was you who discredited BeOS by claiming it was more than it actually is.

You want to know why THG doesn't run any comparisons against BeOS? Because it's impossible for them to! BeOS doesn't support enough hardware to run a benchmark with. And even IF it did, what benchmark could THG run on it since it doesn't support ANY software that THG uses? Hmm?

At least THG could theoretically sit down and benchmark Linux against Windows because they have some similar software titles. But BeOS has nothing that could be benchmarked with.

And this in itself says it all.

And you definately need to sit down and calm yourself and look in a mirror before you go even suggesting that the kettle is black.

You tell me that I over-react to your posts on BeOS. What have I EVER said that is an over-reaction? All I've done is ask you about it, research it myself, and find it to be sorely lacking. And so I tell people the TRUTH about BeOS. I haven't said a single thing about it that isn't true. If you can call that an over-reaction, then maybe you need to look up the words in a dictionary.

Meanwhile, there's you. You call me a liar when it's obvious to anyone who read those posts that you're the one not telling the truth. You constantly jump on me for things I haven't even implied in my words. You make extreme and completely incorrect judgements about me with absolutely nothing to base them on. I'd have to say that without any doubt, you're the ONLY one over-reacting here.

You talk of Zen like you know what it is. But then your words are so UN-ZEN-LIKE that it clearly shows that you either know nothing about Zen, or that you have no idea how to live Zen. Either way, only stupid people preach that which they do not practice.

And as for Linux, it really DOES need to come up with some better standards. My saying this has nothing to do with Microsoft, BeOS, or even the color of the sky. I think it's best summed up with the old proverb, "Too many cooks spoil the broth." Right now Linux is being pulled in too many directions. People are constnatly re-inventing the wheel. They spend too much time writing code to do the same thing that someone else wrote. And why? Because Linux doesn't have a set standard that everyone can follow.

Don't even try to suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about because as we speak I'm researching as much as possible into Linux as I can because I'm in the process of converting code from Windows 2000 to Linux and trying to use QT to do it. I KNOW Linux.

So stop your ranting and your lies. If you want to hold an INTELLIGENT conversation about BeOS, I'm completely open to it. But so far you haven't proven that you could even hold an intelligent conversation with a five-year-old.

And if all that you are going to do is over-react to everything that anyone says and call people liars and make up lies about them because they can prove that BeOS isn't all that you claim it to be, then don't even bother posting. This is a FORUM. A place for holding INTELLECTUAL conversations about topics. Not a place for you.

- Sanity is purely based on point-of-view.

>Dear seven bloody demons of Hailrond!
>Do you actually get dumber as time progresses?

I read your post too much, and learn too much from you.
I must stop reading your post if I don't want to get dumber.

>The last time you main such a todo about BeOS,
>I came to you with honest questions about what made it any better.
>And you instantly jumped on my as though I had somehow profained
>all that was good in the world.

You talk sweatly, but there were poison inside every word you said.

>Then when I finally do get some actual information out of you instead of just
>your crappy attitude, I come to hear that BeOS is in actuality no better than
>any other OS used. It may have been based on better concepts, but the way
>that they are implemented isn't better at all. And with how much it lacks in
>other areas, it's a wonder anyone would ever want to use it.

I never said this.
I wonder why you like to twist a fact so much.
I said that for server Unix/Linux is better than Win2000/NT/9x/BeOS.
But for desktop BeOS is the easiest & powerfull. It just it lack of apps.
And apps is not equal to OS.

>You call me a liar because you say that I tried to discredit BeOS.
>All I did was show just how much it fails to be everything you claim it to be.

I call you liar because you like to twist a fact so much.

>It wasn't ME who discredited BeOS. It was BeOS who discredited
>itself by NOT being what it could/should be. Or perhaps it was you
>who discredited BeOS by claiming it was more than it actually is.

See what I mean. You talked nicely at first sentence of your paragraphs, then twisted a fact with lie on the latter sentence.

>You want to know why THG doesn't run any comparisons against BeOS?
>Because it's impossible for them to! BeOS doesn't support enough hardware
>to run a benchmark with. And even IF it did, what benchmark could THG run
>on it since it doesn't support ANY software that THG uses? Hmm?

First of all, THG has Linux kernel compilation benchmark.
Why don't THG has Windows kernel compilation benchmark.

It would be a great article if THG could show the benefit of dual processor using an OS design for it.
Every OS do job differently. And Be claim that BeOS did the best on dual configuration.
I can't prove this because I don't have the knowladge to benchmark like THG did.
And I don't have Win2000/NT4.0 either. It's too expensive.
So I asked Tom nicely over several e-mail.

And THG did had hardware to do benchmark.
BeOS support great amount of hardware.
It even support propulsion chipset (8-way Xeon).
And THG could use some native BeOS software to test for SMP system.

It doesn't have to have the Window counterpart.
As THG didn't have Windows kernel compilation.

>At least THG could theoretically sit down and benchmark Linux against
>Windows because they have some similar software titles. But BeOS has
>nothing that could be benchmarked with.
>And this in itself says it all.
>And you definately need to sit down and calm yourself and look in a mirror
>before you go even suggesting that the kettle is black.

>You tell me that I over-react to your posts on BeOS. What have I EVER said that is
>an over-reaction? All I've done is ask you about it, research it myself, and find it to
>be sorely lacking. And so I tell people the TRUTH about BeOS.

How can you know the truth about BeOS if you never touch it.
You definetly playing a good troll roll here.

>I haven't said a single thing about it that isn't true. If you can call that an over-reaction,
>then maybe you need to look up the words in a dictionary.

This is why I hate you soo much.
You always said you never said a single things that isn't true.
But you put FUD everywhere on your sentence.
Like you said because THG doesn't have the hardware to do benchmark.
How do you know about it.

* motherboard: BeOS can run on i440BX, i440LX, i440ZX, i815, i810, i820, Atlon, Duron, VIA chipset, ALI chipset.
* processor: intel pentium & up, AMD K5 & up.
* memory: all
* HD: all
* Video card: nVidia Riva128 & up, ATi, Matrox G200 & up, 3DFx Voodoo2 & up.
* NIC: 3COM 905, 905b, 905c

So how can THG doesn't have the hardware?
This is your lie, fud, lie, fud, lie.

>Meanwhile, there's you. You call me a liar when it's obvious to anyone who
>read those posts that you're the one not telling the truth.

Where's my lie??
Can you point it out??
I don't want a twisted lie from you again.
Show me where I lie without twisting the fact!!!!

>You constantly jump on me for things I haven't even implied in my words.
>You make extreme and completely incorrect judgements about me with
>absolutely nothing to base them on. I'd have to say that without any doubt,
>you're the ONLY one over-reacting here.

As I said before, I judge you by what you did. And I found out you were a liar.

>You talk of Zen like you know what it is. But then your words are so UN-ZEN-LIKE
>that it clearly shows that you either know nothing about Zen, or that you have no
>idea how to live Zen. Either way, only stupid people preach that which they do not practice.

I did better than you.

>And as for Linux, it really DOES need to come up with some better standards.
>My saying this has nothing to do with Microsoft, BeOS, or even the color of the sky.
>I think it's best summed up with the old proverb, "Too many cooks spoil the broth."
>Right now Linux is being pulled in too many directions. People are constnatly
>re-inventing the wheel. They spend too much time writing code to do the same
>thing that someone else wrote. And why? Because Linux doesn't have a set
>standard that everyone can follow.

Standard limit imagination.
Only idiot like you need standard to use Linux.
Linux is good because it has more than one standard.
Even microsoft reliase this and had made WinCE, Win9x, WinNT.
Why?? Because one can't fit all.

>Don't even try to suggest that I don't know what I'm talking about because as we speak
>I'm researching as much as possible into Linux as I can because I'm in the process of
>converting code from Windows 2000 to Linux and trying to use QT to do it. I KNOW Linux.

Yeah right.

>So stop your ranting and your lies. If you want to hold an INTELLIGENT conversation
>about BeOS, I'm completely open to it. But so far you haven't proven that you could
>even hold an intelligent conversation with a five-year-old.

Don't tell me that you only 5 years old.
No wonder your post doesn't show any inteligent a grown up should have.
I appolize to you then. For 5 years old, your post is very GOOD.

>And if all that you are going to do is over-react to everything that anyone says and
>call people liars and make up lies about them because they can prove that BeOS isn't
>all that you claim it to be, then don't even bother posting. This is a FORUM. A place for
>holding INTELLECTUAL conversations about topics. Not a place for you.

Right...
This is a forum.
If you don't like the conversation about it.
Skip this thread, and don't spread FUD.

Get BeOS (http://free.be.com)
The Best ever Operating System

Dear all,

I'm really sorry that a couple of my last message is really Off Topic.
At first, I just try to tell how I feel about GeForece 3, but somehow
some troll bait me into flame war.

slvr_phoenix has been trying several time to bait me into flame war
in several topic we made.

I'm really sorry about all of this.. and won't continue the flame war.

Mr. Slvr_phoenix, if you really want to talk intelegintely about BeOS
I invite you to talk in person to more than 1 BeOS user, so you know
what going on in other side of word. And you will be ready for BeOS
if BeOS revolution success ;P

from: http://www.be.com/world/mailinglists.html
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Get BeOS (http://free.be.com)
The Best ever Operating System

Okay, you asked for it. You want proof that you're a liar, you've got it.

"It's more advance than Linux (Linux is based on Unix)
and it's more advance than WinNT (NT is based on Windows)"
Two lies right there. Newer does not mean more advanced. BeOS has crap for networking and very little driver support. So right there, you started this whole topic with lies.

">It has crap for hardware support. It has crap for software titles.
It's not"
It does too have a complete lack of software titles. And the ones that it does have are stripped-down pieces of garbage that hardly have near the functionality that Windows, Linux, and even Macintosh software have. It doesn't support NVIDIA video cards. It doesn't support a large number of cheap audio cards. It doesn't support ANY old hardware such as a Creative Labs AWE32. It has crap for hardware support and for software titles.

"Linux is better than Window in server, but not in home/office user.
Linux is better than BeOS in Server, but not in home/office user.
BeOS is better than Linux/Window in home/office user."
Linux and Windows 2000 are perfectly tied for server use. They're both darn good products. BeOS is absolutely NO FASTER than Linux or Windows when running on a single-cpu system. Since only an extreme minority of home or office users have dual CPU systems, this makes BeOS in NO WAY better. And add on to that the fact that there isn't even proof that BeOS even IS any better at running multiple CPU systems. And, if you account for the fact that BeOS doesn't have any real games, that means that it isn't good for many home users at all. Gaming is a large portion of home PC use.

"I wonder why you hate BeOS so much without ever trying it."
Yet another collection of lies. First off, I don't hate BeOS. I just find it severely underwhelming. Second off, I did try using it, and it couldn't even support my hardware, so I quickly got rid of it.

"pitty you.
used by MS
tricked by MS

money gone to MS for nothing
brain wash by MS
pitty you."
Another collection of lies. MS has never yet tricked me nor used me. I however use MS. That doesn't make me some sort of MS pawn. It just means that the software I NEED runs on the Windows OS. The money I have spent on MS products has been well spent as with MS products I get to use ALL of my hardware. I get to use any software that I need. And I get to write software that I know other people will actually be able to use. If anyone here is brainwashed, it's you. You seem to think that MS is somehow evil incarnate and that Windows is completely useless. I pity you.

"It seems a bit imposible right now because nVidia has been laid by MS."
Yet another lie! They are simply supporting the OS that has the MOST USERS! They support Linux too. Linux isn't MS. So it's dreadfully obvious how much of a lie your statement is.

"BeOS even more user friendly than MacOS."
Yet another lie. The ONLY thing that the Macintosh has over any other computer is that their OS is so annoyingly easy to use.

"BeOS/Linux beat Win9x/WinNT"
Yet more lies from you. This obviously your personal opinion because it has absolutely no fact to back it up.

"Liar...
When I first post in THG about dual motherboard.
I wrote that I want THG to test dual processor mobo with several OS.
And please compare it with: NT4/2000, Linux kernel 2.3/2.4 (more is better), BeOS R4.5/R5.
I want to know which OS is better in Dual processor env.
I have read a lot about this, but never read it from hardware reviewer that I trust the most
(THG).

When I post for THG to benchmark with those OS,
you then discredit BeOS.
You wrote that THG shouldn't use/try BeOS because nobody use it, it's crap, not supporting your hardware, and not supporting your software. Now you want to tell the other way around??? LIAR"
Yet more lies from you. I never did discredit BeOS. I merely pointed out the FACTS. The FACTS are that BeOS does NOT support enough hardware AND it does NOT have enough software titles. And that the BeOS API while sounding better, is actually in no way better than the Windows API because to truely multi-thread an application you still have to do it all manually under BOTH OSs. The ONLY difference between BeOS and Windows is that the software written for BeOS is all written as fully multi-threaded. And that, obviously, isn't even an OS difference. It's a software product difference!

"See what I mean....
You always over react when I posted about BeOS."
Yet another lie. You obviously don't know the definition of over-react because I didn't. I only gave FACTS that prove thatBeOS isn't the best OS ever.

"Linux is more free than BeOS.
Your post here has no point.
Another FUD by slvr_phoenix the liar man."
Again you lie. Because first, I didn't lie, so when you call me a 'liar man' you're obviously the one telling the falsehoods. And second, my point was that the only reason BeOS might be better than Windows is if you are looking at the price. But since Linux is totally free and much better than BeOS, it proves that BeOS really has no advantage over any other OS.

"I happend to like MS."
How in the world can you say you don't lie when you say things like that and then turn around and call me brainwashed by MS and wasting my money for using Windows? It's obvious that you've completely lied here.

"I use BeOS just because BeOS has more power"
Yet another lie from you. The BeOS operating system has absolutely no more power than Linux or Windows.

"MS want discourage other to use Linux by saying that if Linux is not agree to some
standard then Linux is not good."
Another of your lies, since these views are from the LINUX COMMUNITY, not from Microsoft. Frankly, Microsoft doesn't even care much about Linux because they have nothing to fear from Linux yet.

"The OS has the most potential of all other OS out there."
Yet again another lie from you. This whole statement is complete speculation. It can't even have a single fact behind it. The potential of any OS is based on the writers of the OS, not on the OS itself. When an OS needs to grow in areas, the programmers write the code for it to do so. It has absolutely nothing to do with what is already in the code.

"And THG as reviewer site should look into this wheter is it good or not,
whether is usefull or not."
Yet another lie. THG has yet to look into something that isn't good or useful just because someone thinks that THG should look into it.

"good religion doesn't counted by their follower.
Could you say religion A is better than B because having more follower?"
Another perfect example of you twist words. How can anyone compare an OS to a religion with a straight face?

"BeOS is stand for Best ever Operating System.
And it is...."
It most certainly is thoroughly proven that it is not the best OS ever. It does have some good concepts. But it lacks in MANY ways.

"you 100% against BeOS for no reason"
Yet another lie, since I've given reason after reason after reason. And I'm not against BeOS. I'm against you preaching BeOS like it's some answer to all the world's problems. And against you arguing with me when I have facts and you have only your attitude.

"because you said BeOS is sux."
Another lie because I am 100% certain that I NEVER said BeOS, "sux".

"I don't running an advertise for BeOS."
Geeze! This is the biggest lie of them ALL! Your autosignature is an advertisement for BeOS. Or hadn't you noticed? And you posted this:
"BeOS is a new OS created from scracth.
It's more advance than Linux (Linux is based on Unix)
and it's more advance than WinNT (NT is based on Windows)
You could find some BeOS news on
* http://www.benews.com
* http://www.beoscentral.com

Or download BeOS from:
* http://free.be.com
* http://www.gobe.com
* http://www.bebits.com

some BeOS tips:
http://ww.betips.net"
What can anyone call that other than an advertisement for BeOS? You lie! You lie! You lie!

"Not everybody created equal."
Another lie. EVERYONE is created equal. Not everyone has the same needs, wants, personalities, etc., but everyone IS created equal.

"You talk sweatly, but there were poison inside every word you said."
No. There were honest questions that I had about the OS. I'm ALWAYS interested in looking for a better product. I asked you completely innocent questions. And you attacked me with absolutely no provocation. The ONLY poison in anyone's words, was the poison in yours. You claimed to want to have an intellectual conversation about BeOS, and then you turned it into a fight.

"I never said this." (Referring to you saying that BeOS being no better than any other OS.)
Yes, you did say it. You didn't say it in this section. You said it in the other 'conversation' (if you can call it one since it was only you attacking me). I asked why BeOS was better. You explained how the entire API is based on multi-threading. But then you explained how the automatic multi-threading is really very basic and not very useful. And that to get a good multi-threaded application you had to still program it all manually anyway. In case you're not smart enough to put two and two together, I will spell it out for you. THIS MAKES IT EXACTLY LIKE ANY OTHER OS! So you DID say that BeOS WAS no better than any other OS.

"I call you liar because you like to twist a fact so much."
Yet another lie, as I haven't twisted a single fact yet. They're all right there for anyone to plainly see. It's YOU who twist things. And it's YOU who lie because you fail to accept the truth.

"
>It wasn't ME who discredited BeOS. It was BeOS who discredited
>itself by NOT being what it could/should be. Or perhaps it was you
>who discredited BeOS by claiming it was more than it actually is.

See what I mean. You talked nicely at first sentence of your paragraphs, then twisted a fact with lie on the latter sentence."
Yet more lies from you. I didn't twist a single fact there. You ARE claiming that BeOS is more than it actually is and are serving to greatly discredit it in doing so.

"BeOS support great amount of hardware."
Yet more lies. It supports SOME hardware. It is hardly a 'great' amount though.

"And THG could use some native BeOS software to test for SMP system."
Yet another lie. They most certainly could not use some native BeOS software to test because then they would be completely unable to run the same software on a Windows or Linux system. And if they can't run the same software on all platforms, then it isn't any sort of a fair comparison because the software itself could be making the difference in performance. Thus it CANNOT be used to benchmark.

"It doesn't have to have the Window counterpart.
As THG didn't have Windows kernel compilation."
Again you twist things into horrible lies. THG has NEVER compared the performance of Windows against that of Linux. They have compared two different CPUs on how well they work under both platforms. That is COMPLETELY different from comparing the two OSs. So you CANNOT use this as a legitimate argument for why THG should benchmark BeOS.

"How can you know the truth about BeOS if you never touch it."
Again, another lie. First, how COULD you know if I never used BeOS? Second, I DID TRY TO USE BEOS. It didn't support my hardware. I couldn't use it.

"And THG did had hardware to do benchmark."
Since an important role would be to see how well the best hardware runs under each OS, that means they would be using a GeForce 2 Ultra. Where's the BeOS support for that, may I ask? Oh, it doens't exist?

"I did better than you." (referring to practicing Zen)
First off, I NEVER preached Zen. You did. So you can't possibly hold it against me for not practicing it because I never even suggested that I do. Second off, every other statement from you is an attack on me. Me, I only call you intellectually challenged every so often. So that in itself proves that you're again lying because it's blatantly obvious that I AM more Zen-like than you. Those who practice Zen don't go around attacking people. It's a simple and obvious fact.

"Standard limit imagination."
Spoken like a true liar. Standards do NOT limit imagination. Standards prevent numerous people from having to write the same thing over and over and over. Standards give a solid groundwork to things so that anyone else can come along and UNDERSTAND what is being done. STANDARDS ARE THE BUILDING BLOCKS OF GOOD PROGRAMMING! Anyone who says that standards limit imagination are only trying to hide the fact that they aren't smart enough understand the standards.

"Only idiot like you need standard to use Linux."
Again, you twist my words. I NEVER said that I needed standards to use Linux. I said that Linux will flounder and never be able to compete successfully against Windows until they can set some standards so that the different Linux coders aren't fighting each other anymore and instead can concentrate on just making the code better. Even Linux programmers will completely agree with that.

"Linux is good because it has more than one standard."
No, Linux is hard for Linux fans to upgrade because it has too many people trying to set completely different standards.

"Even microsoft reliase this and had made WinCE, Win9x, WinNT.
Why?? Because one can't fit all."
Again you lie and twist things into complete nonesense. Microsoft wrote NT different from Windows9x because Win9x users didn't need (or want) things like forced security and multiple-processor support. Then later MS realized how painful it was to support several different OSs and wrote Windows 2000. Windows 2000 is Microsoft's effort to bring all Windows users back under a single Windows standard because THEY DON'T WANT TO SUPPORT SEVERAL DIFFERENT OSs.

"Don't tell me that you only 5 years old."
Again, you have twisted words into falsehood. I never said I was. I never even suggested or hinted that I was. It's only YOU TRYING TO FIGHT ME. Not very Zen-like, are you?

"No wonder your post doesn't show any inteligent a grown up should have."
Yet two more lies here. First off, my posts happen to be a lot more intelligent than yours because unlike you I actually give facts and reason, where as you just argue and attack my personhood. Second off, I think it's pretty obvious by your grammar who's posts don't show intelligence. But I'm willing to grant that you may not be a native speaker of English and am willing to overlook that. But again, the pot should never be calling the kettle black.

"but somehow some troll bait me into flame war."
For your information, in case you don't realise how much you're lying here, you voluntarily walked into it. And YOU'RE the only one blatantly flaming anyone/thing.

As for me, I've only been giving the side of the coin that you refuse to admit BeOS has: That BeOS does not meet the needs of most users, and that it is NOT the best OS ever.

I have never once said that BeOS is horrible and should never exist, or even anything close to such. I look forward to a day when fanatics like you will help to make it an actually good OS that may one day actually be able to compete against Windows.

However, if anything is capable of doing such I will be putting my bet on Linux.

Cycnuskus, so far you have sounded like a childish intellectually-challenged bully. And I don't for one second regret showing this to everyone here. Because it's obvious that anything that comes out of your mouth has a high probability of being twisted if not a flat out lie. For example, I haven't 'baited' you once. You freely walked right into starting a fight with me, even in the last section in the forum when I was only trying to ask you for more information about BeOS. You have time and time again started every fight. All I have ever done is try to give the whole picture to BeOS so that other people can decide for themselves if it is useful to them or not.

If you can call pointing out flaws with a product 'baiting' you into a 'flame war', then you have some issues to work out.

Personally, I'd LOVE to hold an intellectual conversation about the benefits of BeOS. Just not with you, because you obviously are not capable of such.

However, if you would like to prove me wrong and talk about it's usefullness without simultaniously bashing Linux, Windows, or myself then by all means please do so because I do enjoy a good conversation with intelligent people.


- Sanity is purely based on point-of-view.

>Good, please discribe some of the software that you use and is available in BEOS.

I use N+ to surf the net most of the time.
We also have Mozilla 0.8 & Opera 3.62/1, but I like N+ the best because it's speed.
For viewing a HTML 4.0/CSS/DHTML I use Mozilla 0.8.

I use BeMail for e-mail.

And also BeIDE for development (included in BeOS Pro,
and free download for BeOS PE from http://free.be.com).

I use ProcessController, Workspace Switcher (search in http://www.bebits.com).

>Is BEOS open source like Linux?

The kernel is not open source.
But the Tracker is open source (http://www.tracker.org).

>What particular (please be brief as possible) do you see better in BEOS?
>You have sparked my interest and hope you are not turned off by all the
>flaming.

I'm not really good as describing why I use BeOS.
I saw BeOS first on CPU-Central
(http://www.cpu-central.com/articles.asp?article_id=6879&decor_int=1)
And decide to buy it. After I try it I fall in love.
* It has journaled/MIME file system.
* It's responsiveness.
* It design natively with SMP in mind.
* It's the most OOP OS I ever use.

If you really want to know more, you might want to read: http://www.byte.com/index/Be_View
Scoot know how to describe a technology in an attractive manner.
So it won't bore people like I did

>Does BEOS support USB, AGP, busmastering, IDE ultraDMA100 for via chipsets?
>Does Via or BE have BEOS drivers for via chipsets?

For more information on Be hardware compability (http://www.be.com/support/guides/beosreadylist_intel.html)

Be support some VIA chipset.
I don't remember what VIA chipset, but I believe it's all Pentium, PentiumII/Celeron, PentiumIII, Duron/Athlon.
I've read some BeOS user use VIA dual processor for Pentium III (newest).

>Printer drivers? (Just be brief here please.)

Most HP, Epson driver.
Will support most of Epson printer (based on new relationship with Epson).
See (http://www.be.com/support/guides/beosreadylist_intel.html)

>I hope you will be able to answer some of the following.
>One note is that I can't say anything about BEOS since I've havn't tried it.
>Has everyone here tried it and are expressing their evaluation of the
>operating system? If not then why are you debating this issue? Thanks.

You could try BeOS: http://free.be.com
BeOS apps: http://www.bebits.com
BeOS tips: http://www.betips.net
BeOS pub: http://www.benews.com

Here you can meet some BeOS user to ask for help: http://www.be.com/world/mailinglists.html

Get BeOS (http://free.be.com)
The Best ever Operating System

Wow cysybakus or whatever your name, you're really on BeOS's nutz huh? I'm just curious, what the hell kinda NASA space program, high tech, hackin', programming, "work" do you actually do on BeoS that makes it so great. And makes Win2K (the greatest OS of all time) a "toy OS". Sounds kinda lame to me, like some geek who really doesn't use this for anything productive other than the fact of being able to argue about why you are so special becuase you use some whack ass OS.

Agreed (haven't tried the beos thingy though).