NVidia Launches the 7800 GTX Full Review

Bummer, I was hoping to wake up and see NDA ended up being earlier than 9:00AM Eastern time, or somebody else was dumb enough to break it. All seems quiet though and I'll be at work with no time to check the reviews as they pop up.

In the mean time, Newegg had 3 7800GTX's in stock for $599, but took them down. Zipzoom has <A HREF="http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=322726" target="_new">this one</A> up now also $599.


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<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Pauldh on 06/22/05 07:11 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Well now ball's in ATI's court now, but i highly doubt if ATI can have cards hitting retail the day they paper launch.

Here's my assessment:


The card brings a lot to the table in features. As some may know, I'm a freak of architecture complexity. Screw clock speeds and the rest, what I wanna know is how interesting the interior is, which is why I still think the NetBurst architecture is one of the most interesting concepts but with the worst implementation yet.

In that regard, the 7800 is very interesting. I really like all the stuff they've done to improve per-clock performance. What rather gets to me is why they seem surprised at that take, when it was the goal in all previous generations, at least from what I noticed. Better IPC has proven itself in AMD's CPUs, as they don't have to run hotter and yet can perform way better than the competition. The balance of clock and IPC rule no longer seems to apply or is as valid. So again, I don't think there should be any more touting on the IPC performance of the 7800 moreso than there was on the previous generation or should have had.
All of the new improvements in it are welcome, and I am eager to see what ATi's card will look like in the interior.
The problem will be when will we see optimized games for such designs?

Which brings me to the practical aspect impressions: I'm not very impressed overall. If you consider that it's 30MHZ faster only, you still end up with something not THAT better per clock right now. So much architectural improvements, so little being shown right off the box. (and as many have noticed, if it ain't outta the box, even if you buy it now with the idea it will be cooler later, it won't be before the next generation comes out that it starts to be apparent and that the actual performing versions are there, which are usually the new generation ones which can handle the load from the new technology used)
The whole notion of minimum frame rates being raised is also a bit confusing on THG's part, or more specifically, Darren Polkowski. (speaking of which, where is Lars? I wonder what the review would have been like if the usual writer would have made the article) He seems to be having a different definition of minimum FPS. There were no minimum FPS benchmarks, which leads me to believe he interprets min FPS as being the worst case scenarios counting in resolution and image quality, not in-context gameplay FPS.

Now it's not all that bad in performance though, as I may make it seem. I am very much impressed by some of the high resolution results for Single card mode when it came to performance hit deltas. If you noticed (I only found it out about halfway through the benchmarks and had to reinterpret the results in light of the discovery which was rather subtle), the two tests per card mode include not only a standard XGA resolution and UXGA one, but the latter also includes 4X AA and 8X AF (except for UT2003 which ran without any IQ enhancements), which at such a resolution is usually more than satisfying. This means we're jumping from one extreme to the other, sort of like Low and High Quality settings in a game. So to see the effect being in some cases as minimal as 10-20% is very much impressive and is to be commended. Although in very few cases I believe the 6800 Ultra could also manage that and in rarer ones, the X850XT PE too.
The latter is also making a rather ironic showing in this review, as it outperformed the 7800 GTX in a few areas, notably at XGA resolution.
Also, SLI isn't making a very impressive showing here either, where in some cases (in more than one game from what I remember) it underperformed way too much against the Single card mode. I think it was recurrent in the 6800 Ultra too, indicating that SLI is far from being perfected yet, if you consider THG used the most recent available drivers.

What this card reminds me of, right now, is of the 5800 Ultra, minus its horrid issues. In performance, the 5800 Ultra had some nice improvements overall, and let nVidia ride on it a bit. Unfortunately though, the gamers want more over what's out now, and in my opinion, for the price and the improvements in current games, it just isn't THAT justified for upgrading over the highest end cards of the previous generation. I say we need to wait a bit and see if the drivers are actually the ones that are holding the card back, because I like the fact they kept the clock speed as close to the 6800 Ultra as possible, as that allows for a better idea of how optimized the card is. (not to mention, the memory bandwidth is a mere 3GB/sec faster, which is pretty much your average XT to PE performance jump)
Perhaps I may be wrong and the card has serious potential that isn't tapped yet. After all, we all have seen how nVidia has had a history of unlocking serious performance out of some of their new cores with an updated driver. (Detonator XP anyone?)

All in all, it's the features that interest me, but performance-wise, I am only impressed at some of the performance hit reductions between XGA and High quality UXGA.

--
The <b><A HREF="http://snipurl.com/blsb" target="_new"><font color=red>THGC Photo Album</font color=red></A></b>, send in your pics, get your own webpage and view other members' sites.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 06/22/05 11:46 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Sure, like this Gem in their final thoughts;

<i><font color=blue>the G70 is a testament to the potential the original NV30 design possessed.</font color=blue></i>

LOL!

Right, like the GF7800 is anything like the original NV30. That's like saying the R9700 was a testament to the Rage chips.

Although it is nice to see that Anand finally figured out how to move the resolution slider past 1600x1200. I guess he didn't have permission before this review.

Interesting Anand didn't benchmark FartCry unlike everyone else. Does making mention that SLI doesn't help HDR for GF6800U but does work for GF7800GTX cause an issue maybe? I would think that would be something people would like to know and more important than the meagre differences in other apps. It appears to also be one of the only ones where the GTX doesn't perform as well at high res. Wonder why Anand wouldn't include that but decide UT2K4 (extremely CPU limited) and Wolfenstein (extremely old) would matter? Not surprising really. I did find it interesting that they also have caveats all over the place for the poor performance in Everquest2 because of nV's issues with quality;
<i>"though in more reasonable settings the performance is closer. It's interesting to note that the 6800U actually outperforms the X850XTPE in the "Extreme Quality" mode. "</i>
LOL! So either relax the settings to reduce quality or push the quality so hard that all cards grind to a halt and the nV's finally pull ahead in uplayable framerates. But I guess lfickering is part of 'ExtremeQuality'.

Also where's Chronicles of Riddick? There are very interesting result in Riddick because of all the shader options with OGL2.0++ which still clobbers hardware.
BF2 DEMO, but not the actual game on sale now WTF? Do they need everything to be a freebie given to them with strings attached?

Stick with [H], TheTechReport, and Beyond3D (they don't bother with the us vs them BS) those are people who don't have an obvious agenda. Their reviews are far more thorough and don't look to make excuses for the results. The GF7800GTX is a damn fine card, why the need to massage the numbers? The most impressive work comeing from

Anand's pretty much useless when it come to a balanced review in Graphics (not bad for CPUs, but not great there either). I'd take a review by Lars any day, unfortunately Lars didn't do the THG one this time around.
Maybe Crashman can do the next one .


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

I've managed a few brief moments to gawk over the performance charts, but haven't read the meat of any reviews yet never mind Eden's MONSTER post up above. Tonight all the info shall be mine though. [H]'s number's impressed me. Especially my addiction: NFSU2. It stinks not being able to comment further.


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you must be retarded.

this card blows everything else away, matches SLI.. is cool, quiet.. single slot.. AND is AVAILABLE TODAY.
We'll see if ATI has cards available on launch.

not to mention with NV 80.xx you no longer need the same brand of card, or same bios, online SLI profile updates, dual core support, seamless SLI switching, independant OCing of each card... Crossfire is pretty much dead in the water.

On top of being the performance king without question, Nvidia STILL has better Linux/OGL and Windows drivers! And their stuff is available!

just what I want is a ALI/uli chipset in my rig to use that stupid dongle with crossfire and get two slow SM2 cards. Oh and if an ALI chipset is better than the ATI then I am laughing my ass off. Incompetance.

Dual 7800GTX in a NFORCE4, for me please. Heck, one and a guy would be set for massive resolutions and next generation titles.

I'll allow you to sit her and continue playing dumb.. but the launch was flawless, the cards are available and this thing performs exceptionally for a 24pipe card.

Good luck ATI and those of us like you who support them.
I remember saying how NV30 was just a fluke, one years past now.. and NV would step back up to the plate.. but you were like a pig in mud rolling around as long as possible ignorantly blissful to the truth. The Geforce6 was a winning round for Nvidia and this is too.

Hey, until ATI actually gets a card launched and HAS IT AVAILABLE.. theres really no argument you can put up besides personal attacks on those who are honest enough to admit the GF7 rules all.

Figures you'd crawl out of hiding today.

Well this 7800GTX is looking good to me so far. Seems NV worked alot of their GF6 weakness out with this new beauty. It's alot better than my now fifth place(IMO) GF6800U. (7800GTX, X850XTpe, X850XT, X800XTpe)

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ATI has its work cut out on this one, the nvidia 7800GTX IMO at this moment OWNS big style, i was expecting performance but this is more than i was expecting. GOBSMACKED Speechless.

What i really cant believe is these cards are instock YES INSTOCK everywhere in the uk for £399 (USA $800). this launch beats the 6800 launch and x800 launch by far.

the r520 betta be better than this, because nvidia still has an ultra to release, which could easily be 32 pipline, and then go down to 90nm to push the bar up even higher.



<font color=purple> BOW DOWN AND SUCK MY eD!cK </font color=purple>

Congrats on making Gigolo. Now you have something in common with Wusy.

Congrats

Heck I'm still trying to catch GGA. Forget about Crashman.

I wish...my CC bill will be a little, ummmm, scary, when it comes (but I think I've saved enough over the past years to cover it all). Anyway, most of the sh<b></b>it I've bought will last me a while (speakers, case, watercooling, PSU, monitor, bluetooth module and HDDs). It's unfortunate that the 7800GTX won't stay top dog for long, but I'm perfectly content with what it offers (especially since I'll be watercooling it...I'm hoping for 530MHz on the core and 1400MHz on the mem).

Anyway, I wanna watch the sunrise and then get a couple hours of sleep before I go off painting my gf's new place.

Can't wait to use my 7800GTX on my 2405fpw as I'll be able to use 2x TR MSAA and 16xAF in just about every game at full resolution, but my 4400+ is gonna take forever to get here (I think...could actually ship soon).

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

Did anyone else hear something?

Ahh yes, Pauldh farted!

For a minute there I thought I heard the ghost of $hit-head past, but it's probably just another whiny little wind of lament.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

Keep us posted oh how the OCing goes.

Was that Game who just went in and out.

Exactly (BTW, I did mention that's the part to focus on because that's impressive [you might notice that when you get the time to read my epic as well as Eden's /JK])

Anywhoo that's what I'm talking about, overall the performance is mediocre for a new generation, but it's GREAT for a refresh, which is what it is an NV48 not an NV50 (hence the change to G70 for PR purposes?).

You might want to check a few more reviews on that, under idle it consumes less (not surprising with 110nm), but under load it consumes more, which also makes sense.

Not Bad? That's the way it's supposed to be. It's about time after all the F'in price gouging of the last generation and the total lack of real performance parts. This is definitely a good sign for us.

Oh there's no doubt about top spot either single or double (what about quad+? ). And I think that Crossfired X850XTs as a competing part makes no sense, they are more expensive and like SLi limited benifit/use for that expense at heat and power costs.

And like I said, I don't think that will be for a while, this will be staggered launches IMO where there will be defined leaders for 3+ month stretches at a time. I think this will increase the FUD and "wait until our part comes out" type of BS, but I guess we'll find out soon enough once ATi 'acknowledges this card' in the marketplace.

I think your GF6800U will be fine until mid-2006 when you may feel the need for more horsepower in UE3 based games, but by then the GF7800GTX will be getting a replacement and the R520 will be a mature product, so I don't see any rush for you. For someone like Vapor, this is perfect timing getting the GF7800GTX fits right in, and like he says if the R520 is faster without an equivalent reply he can sell it and get that. I would only feel sorry for people who payed this much for the GF6800U just weeks ago, and I know you got a great deal on yours so I'm not worried about you or your ego (as fragile as all of ours are ).


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new"><font color=green>RED </font color=green> <font color=red> GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

nice reply,

What usually happens with some of us including me, we get all excited when somthing new comes out then we start wondering about the possiblitys of the next gen, we start drueling and hoping and babbling crap about what could be but we dont appriciate what we already have like the 7800gtx.

Enough of that S##T

But still i really cannot wait for the 32 pipline cards, and the r520 to be released, i am gona have a tantrum i swear man.



<font color=purple> BOW DOWN AND SUCK MY eD!cK </font color=purple>

This isn't necessarily directed at you GGA, I just feel most comfortable leaving this after your post.

I don't know why every one thinks the R520 is going to be ATi's savior. Everything is pointing to it only being 24 pipes for now (a 32 pipe version may exist in some vaporware universe, but it won't be available this year).

Let's also be honest about the practicality of power in current and future graphics cards. Increasingly more and more power is needed just to turn up the next setting. A 32 pipe 7800GTX won't be terribly faster than the 24 pipe version, maybe providing better AA capabilities (i.e., some) with 2048x1536 (although 1920x1200 is the best resolution for gaming ) or allowing a single level higher of AA in 1600x1200. That's what the next gen (R580 and G80) will be. That's not going to be worth it for 7800GTX owners and still maybe not for the 16-pipe-gen owners. What we need, rather than just raw power, are more options for making things look nice, such as HDR+AA. For instance, TR xSAA is great, frankly...foliage (among other things) looks disgusting without being AA'd and always pissed me off more than rough edges. We need more things like that.

Of course, I am talking about current games...Unreal 3 engine games won't be able to run at 1920x1200 on a 7800GTX most likely, and more raw power will be needed for that. We also need more of those games--games that push the envelope. U3 engine is the only one that I know of that will do this. Havok, Source, and D3's engines are all capable of being run on current gen at rediculous quality--they stressed the R3xx and NV3x ranges, and allowed the R4xx and NV4x ranges stretch their legs out, but they've been conquered. There's no batch like those on the horizon.

What I'm getting at is that eventually, all new cards aren't going to look as good as you were hoping because there is a ceiling in image quality. The only way they look good is if you are running a card that simply can't even come close to keeping up (my various 9800s for example). If 50% extra power isn't impressing a lot of people, I don't know what will (24->32 pipes is only 33% extra power....32->48 is 50% again, but that's a ways off).

Again, people need to realize that we're hitting a ceiling with the current games and engines, we need developers to push the graphics industry because clearly nV and ATi can keep up if there is a reason.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

Is the BFG card the way to go? I hope that this card doesnt have some of the same issues when OCing an Intel that some of the other Nvidia cards have had. Up unitl now, the Nvidia cards would limit how far you could OC an Intel while the ATI would allow you to go much higher. Thats a hell of alot of money to pay and not be any better off in my case anyway.

ASUS P5WD2 Premium
Intel 3.73 EE @ 5.6Ghz validated.
Corsair XMS2 DDR2 8000UL @ DDR2 <font color=red>1068</font color=red> 5-3-2-9
SuperPI in 25 Seconds and a verified bandwidth of 9267 MB/s

Good job Ape, for finally realizing that Kinney's not worth the keyboard taps and finger movements.

--
The <b><A HREF="http://snipurl.com/blsb" target="_new"><font color=red>THGC Photo Album</font color=red></A></b>, send in your pics, get your own webpage and view other members' sites.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Eden on 06/24/05 01:53 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

Ok, whoever at [H] designed their benchmarking method has GOT to be fired. This is the most ridiculous base method to bench cards. Apples to Apples goddamn it, not freakin' resolution with different IQ settings vs different res+IQ settings! Jesus that is just about the most useless comparison to find out which game will run how much better from your current card at similar settings.
Yes I'll admit it does make the card look impressive in many scenarios, but it'd have been even more if we'd see a true comparison of a common scenario.

--
The <b><A HREF="http://snipurl.com/blsb" target="_new"><font color=red>THGC Photo Album</font color=red></A></b>, send in your pics, get your own webpage and view other members' sites.

That's kinda what I'm saying (not exactly). What I'm saying is that from here on out, the raw pixel pushing power isn't going to get much better than it is today as quickly as it has recently. We need new features from these cards and new features in games.

There is a definite ceiling being hit now, so new engines need to be more graphically demanding to force the graphic card makers to implement the various necessary improvements you have named, Eden. There's a certain limit to those as well, though (inherently, better typically equals a smaller amount with these things) and the main parts of a graphics card that can scale as needed are clockspeed and pipelines.

More things like Embedded DRAM are needed, allowing the game devs to forget about having the card work at full performance, only resolution is needed as the Embedded DRAM adds AA and AF for free.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

There are plenty of other places to look at it apples to apples. Don't know why that matters though...max playable is all that really matters for games, IMO. [H]'s is not designed to directly compare the performance of two cards, but rather compare the image quality each card is capable of.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

yup, cant argue the facts so pretend you are holier than thou in some way.

its funny NV has your baby ATIs number, and has for a while now... so we stop talkign about video and concentrate on my character.
hey, whatever makes you feel like you have a big epeen. cuz it def isnt that 9600 pro. but you were the GF6/Xseries expert and walk on water around the GF7 series too... this guy is "disappointed".
i'd be disappointed gaming on a 9600.