Tungsten C out of stock

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Michael Haase <michael.haase@alcatel.de> wrote:

>Is there is a new TC version under work?

With Palm classic style PDA sales down a whopping 30% in just one year, I'll bet
they cut way back in new models in favor of the better selling phones.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Arthur Hagen wrote:

> AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
>> Michael Haase <michael.haase@alcatel.de> wrote:
>>
>>> Is there is a new TC version under work?
>>
>> With Palm classic style PDA sales down a whopping 30% in just one
>> year, I'll bet they cut way back in new models in favor of the better
>> selling phones.
>
> That's looking at it the wrong way. The market of people who don't have
> a PDA is /much/ bigger than the market of people who don't have a cell
> phone.


....Yet many people with a cellphone will be willing to 'upgrade' their
cellphone and get a PDA at the same time. Two birds, one stone. Having said
that, I might as well mention that a standalone PDA might appeal to less
people because it means carrying two devices. Also, a person with a
cellphone would probably like to keep having a cellular phone of one type
or another.


> Perhaps if Palm went back to making high quality professional PDAs like
> they did when they *did* sell a ton of them, instead of the cheap
> plastic bug-ridden toys they make now, the PDA sales wouldn't drop 30%.


I perfectly agree with that. They still outsell any other vendor, but the
trend is worrying.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Fri, 29 Jul 2005 10:32:19 +0200, Michael Haase wrote:

> I'm wondering that the TC is no more available in German shops. Also
> from the European PalmOne sites it cannot be ordered anymore.
>
> Does anybody know why? Is there is a new TC version under work?

The LifeDrive replaced it.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Arthur Hagen" <art@broomstick.com> aszonygya:
eople seem to have one, there are plenty of people who don't want one
r can't have one, or at least not a phone with a camera, which includes
:*all* pda/phone combinations.

I do not want a cell phone with a camera [I have an LG 1200], and I do not
want cell phone/PDA combos [I have a TC + about a dozen older Palms which I
use for testing only].

Despite its shortcomings, the TC is almost perfect and is definitely less
buggy than all the other Palms by palmOne [aka Palm] with OS 5 such as the TT
TT3, TT5, Treo 6x0, etc., and is certainly way better then the disastrous
LifeDrive.

/PaulN

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <dcdme8$91r$1@cauldron.broomstick.com>,
"Arthur Hagen" <art@broomstick.com> wrote:

> AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
> > Michael Haase <michael.haase@alcatel.de> wrote:
> >
> >> Is there is a new TC version under work?
> >
> > With Palm classic style PDA sales down a whopping 30% in just one
> > year, I'll bet they cut way back in new models in favor of the better
> > selling phones.
>
> That's looking at it the wrong way. The market of people who don't have
> a PDA is /much/ bigger than the market of people who don't have a cell
> phone.

LOL! It's not the market of people who don't have that matters. What
matters is the market of people who want. The market of people who want
cell phones is several hundred times bigger than that of people who want
PDAs.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Arthur Hagen" <art@broomstick.com> wrote:

>Perhaps if Palm went back to making high quality professional PDAs

My Zire 72 has a hundred times the capability of my earlier Palms.
Which Palm did you want to go back to?

>like they did when they *did* sell a ton of them,

Which earlier model should they make to sell a ton of them now?

>instead of the cheap plastic

What's wrong with plastic? It's durable and lightweight. And I especially like
the plastic screens because they're much more shock resistant. And of course
plastic is economic so they could be sold at a lower price. Which plastic model
didn't you like?

>bug-ridden toys they make now,

My 2 newest models (TE and Z72) never crash unless I'm trying new software.
Which bug were you referring to?

>the PDA sales wouldn't drop 30%.

It's not because of quality.
And it's not because Palm stopped making the Pilot Pro either...

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
> "Arthur Hagen" <art@broomstick.com> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps if Palm went back to making high quality professional PDAs
>
> My Zire 72 has a hundred times the capability of my earlier Palms.
> Which Palm did you want to go back to?
>
>> like they did when they *did* sell a ton of them,
>
> Which earlier model should they make to sell a ton of them now?

I don't want an earlier model, I want the *quality* and *simplicity* of
earlier models, upgraded with today's features.

The design of the V/Vx was a killer. It's small enough that people
always can carry it with them, and being metal and glass, sturdy enough
that you can keep it in any pocket without fear that tension will break
it, and massive enough that it won't jump out of your shirt pocket if
running.

Now upgrade it with new features, like a 480x480 "electronic paper"
screen (like on the Sony eBook reader) for those who value battery life,
or a 320x320 OLED screen for those who "must have" colour. Add USB 2.0
High Speed, 802.11g WiFi, lots of memory and built-in flash, and an
upgraded PalmOS 4.x on a mc68k, not running under an emulator on a
power-hungry CPU.

It's a shame that the GUI is _less_ responsive on a 200MHz PalmOS 5 PDA
than on a 20MHz PalmOS 4 PDA. Umpteen layers of abstraction and
emulation on top of mediocre code does that -- compared to the lean,
mean and effective code on earlier Palm PDAs.

>> instead of the cheap plastic
>
> What's wrong with plastic? It's durable and lightweight.

Light weight is not a plus if it means a bigger device. A four ounce
small PDA will stay in your pocket a lot better than a six ounce PDA
that's twice the size, and feel better in your hand too.

> And I
> especially like the plastic screens because they're much more shock
> resistant.

On the other hand, the plastic isn't rigid and gives, leading to
inaccuracies in screen recognition. Plastic is also less clear than
glass, and has higher refraction.

> And of course plastic is economic so they could be sold at
> a lower price.

This isn't necessarily the main buying point for a PDA. Else, how can
you explain how the Vx, initially at $450, was such a big seller?

> Which plastic model didn't you like?

*All* of them.

>> bug-ridden toys they make now,
>
> My 2 newest models (TE and Z72) never crash unless I'm trying new
> software. Which bug were you referring to?

Where should I begin? Network UDP wake-up being broken in all 5.x
versions? Errors in memory consolidation after hotsync, leading to
fragmentation and eventually running out of memory (try syncing 20 times
in a row on a PalmOS 5 device). "Mad digitizer" syndrome? Graffiti 2
(which is "broken by design", in that some combinations are incompatible
with shortcut actions)? Or one of hundreds of others you can find
described even here in c.s.p.p.

>> the PDA sales wouldn't drop 30%.
>
> It's not because of quality.

It's because they haven't launched a model that excited the market. Why
that is, and why they did so well five years ago should be asked someone
*NOT* working at or for Palm. I don't have all the answers, but I am
pretty sure that continuing in the direction they've been heading since
the the introduction of Zire and Tungsten is not the solution.

> And it's not because Palm stopped making the Pilot Pro either...

Of course not. But it's likewise not because the LifeDrive is such a
marvelous device that people *must have*.

Remember that specs and price isn't everything -- the iPod still
outsells all other MP3 players, despite not having the best
functionality nor being cheap. It's damn expensive, has limited
functionality, but it has a killer design and simplicity of use.
Perhaps those are features that Palm might want to look at again.

Regards,
--
*Art

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article <dceu03$2d7e$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk>,
Roy Schestowitz <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote:

> You are mistaken here as I have a real apathy for cellular phones. They were
> recently said < http://www.isracast.com/tech_news/250705_tech.htm > to
> cause eye damage as well as what we already know about risk of brain
> tumours. The long-term effects are yet to be seen.

More urban legends. All such claims shown not to be proven
scientifically.

> I read some months ago that the number of cellphones in the EU has become
> outrageous.

Interesting word, "outrageous." I imagine TV ownership long ago passed
"outrageous."

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Arthur Hagen" <art@broomstick.com> wrote:
>The design of the V/Vx was a killer. It's small enough that people
>always can carry it with them, and being metal and glass, sturdy enough
>that you can keep it in any pocket without fear that tension will break
>it,

This newsgroup was queried often about how to replace the broken glass screen of
the Vx. The metal may have been tough but the glass wasn't. Then we gave them
the bad news about how the thing was held together with glue and they needed a
hair dryer to get it apart. Glued together. Now that's real quality...

>Light weight [plastic] is not a plus if it means a bigger device. A four ounce
>small PDA will stay in your pocket a lot better than a six ounce PDA
>that's twice the size, and feel better in your hand too.

Plastic or metal? Looks pretty close to me:

V/Vx ( metal case ) 4.5" x 3.1" x 0.4" 4 oz
Tungsten E (plastic case) 4.5" x 3.1" x 0.5" 4.6oz

>This isn't necessarily the main buying point for a PDA. Else, how can
>you explain how the Vx, initially at $450, was such a big seller?

The Vx was a flop compared to the sales of the Tungsten E at $199.

>Remember that specs and price isn't everything -- the iPod still
>outsells all other MP3 players,

You heard it here first. In a few years the iPod will suffer the same fate as
Palm. Those nasty phones are gonna take on the mp3 market too...

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Arthur Hagen" <art@broomstick.com> wrote:

>AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:

>>> and simple things that used to be blazingly fast on the original
>>> 16 MHz Palms are suddenly slow?

>> What things are you referring to? Certainly not video...

>Like tapping somewhere and expecting something to happen *immediately*.
>Like not having to wait more than a second for the address book to pop
>up or swap pages. Same for all the other core apps --

You must mean the new LifeDrive. Yes I would agree there.
On my Zire 72 and TE the core apps respond immediately.

>What part of "simple things" didn't you understand?

My Zire 72 searches 10 times faster than my IIIxe. That would be a simple thing.
My Zire 72 loads books in seconds vs minutes on my IIIxe. That would be a simple
thing. You gotta say exactly what you mean Art. Or is this question just an
attempt to be uncivil and I didn't get the meaning...

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"Arthur Hagen" <art@broomstick.com> wrote:

>You *wait* at least half a second for every action you do until
>something happens. Having five different PDAs
>from different eras, I notice the difference quite well.

Are you really griping about a *half second* wait Art?

>And flipping pages in a PeanutPress/eReader book
>is much slower on the Zire 72 than it ever was on any old model.

I have that reader on my Z72 and page flipping is less than half a second.
I guess you really are complaining about a half second. Don't you think that may
be just a little too critical?

>Isn't it "uncivil" to not look at who actually said it before trying to
>slam who *quoted* it? (Or to snip away the attribution while leaving in
>the text, for that matter?)

Huh?? You need to use English Art... But if you're trying to say you
don't like my editing, just show me where I changed your meaning and we'll
discuss it.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is alleged that Arthur Hagen claimed:

; It does? You seem to believe that everybody has a cell phone. It might
; seem that way to you, but in large parts of the world *including the
; Palm home market*, cell phones are not ubiquituous. And even where most
; people seem to have one, there are plenty of people who don't want one
; or can't have one, or at least not a phone with a camera, which includes
; *all* pda/phone combinations.

All? The Treo 6XX series do, but do the earlier Treos? The Kyocera
7135 does not have a camera. Neither does the Samsung i500 (Palm) or
i600 (Windows).

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"The Vorlons are very secretive." (Lt. Cmdr. Ivanova, B5 "The War
Prayer" )

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is alleged that Arthur Hagen claimed:

; I don't want an earlier model, I want the *quality* and *simplicity* of
; earlier models, upgraded with today's features.

Two of those wants are mutually incompatible. You cannot have
something that is both simple and full of features.

; The design of the V/Vx was a killer. It's small enough that people
; always can carry it with them, and being metal and glass, sturdy enough
; that you can keep it in any pocket without fear that tension will break
; it, and massive enough that it won't jump out of your shirt pocket if
; running.
;
; Now upgrade it with new features, like a 480x480 "electronic paper"

You just doubled (at least) the size, or made the resolution too small
to read.

; or a 320x320 OLED screen for those who "must have" colour. Add USB 2.0

You just halved the battery life, or increased the battery size,
thereby increasing the size of the unit.

; High Speed, 802.11g WiFi, lots of memory and built-in flash, and an

More battery sacrifice in either capacity or increased size, or both.

; upgraded PalmOS 4.x on a mc68k, not running under an emulator on a
; power-hungry CPU.

OS4 is dead. OS5 is current. So sorry, but deal with it.

; It's a shame that the GUI is _less_ responsive on a 200MHz PalmOS 5 PDA
; than on a 20MHz PalmOS 4 PDA. Umpteen layers of abstraction and
; emulation on top of mediocre code does that -- compared to the lean,
; mean and effective code on earlier Palm PDAs.

My Treo 650 (OS5.4) is faster than my Kyocera 7135 (OS4.1) was. I
cannot compare it to my next previous, a Clie T615 because I sold it
two years ago.

; Light weight is not a plus if it means a bigger device. A four ounce
; small PDA will stay in your pocket a lot better than a six ounce PDA
; that's twice the size, and feel better in your hand too.

Maybe what you want is carbon fiber.

; On the other hand, the plastic isn't rigid and gives, leading to
; inaccuracies in screen recognition. Plastic is also less clear than
; glass, and has higher refraction.

Depends on the plastic and glass in question. I've seen non-reflective
plastic and glass that was nothing +but+ reflections (and no, it was
not a mirror). The screen protector I put on my Treo is plastic, and
has less reflectivity than the glass windshield of my car.

; > And of course plastic is economic so they could be sold at
; > a lower price.
;
; This isn't necessarily the main buying point for a PDA. Else, how can
; you explain how the Vx, initially at $450, was such a big seller?

I certainly could not afford the Vx when it was new.

; > My 2 newest models (TE and Z72) never crash unless I'm trying new
; > software. Which bug were you referring to?
;
; Where should I begin? Network UDP wake-up being broken in all 5.x

Why are you waking your PDA over the net anyway? Not saying your
statement isn't valid, I'm wondering why it's an issue.

; versions? Errors in memory consolidation after hotsync, leading to
; fragmentation and eventually running out of memory (try syncing 20 times

Is that OS5 in general, or NVFS in particular?

; in a row on a PalmOS 5 device). "Mad digitizer" syndrome? Graffiti 2
; (which is "broken by design", in that some combinations are incompatible

Graffiti 2 is a direct result of a lost lawsuit filed by Xerox.

; It's because they haven't launched a model that excited the market. Why
; that is, and why they did so well five years ago should be asked someone
; *NOT* working at or for Palm. I don't have all the answers, but I am
; pretty sure that continuing in the direction they've been heading since
; the the introduction of Zire and Tungsten is not the solution.

The original Palm was revolutionary. But, how can you make something
that simple exciting today? You can't. What to know what would excite
+me+? A cellphone/pda/media player combo with at least 20G of instant
access mass storage, and no camera, small enough to fit easily and
comfortably into a suit pocket (not that I wear suits, but it defines
the size I'm after).

; Remember that specs and price isn't everything -- the iPod still
; outsells all other MP3 players, despite not having the best
; functionality nor being cheap. It's damn expensive, has limited
; functionality, but it has a killer design and simplicity of use.

.... and as soon as I have ~$300 to spare on a new technotoy, I'm
replacing my iPod with something more functional.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"Do you know what its like when telepaths make love, Commander? You
drop every defense and its all mirrors reflecting each other's
feelings. Deeper and deeper until somewhere along the line, your souls
mix and its a feeling so profound it makes you hurt. It's the only
moment in a telepath's life you no longer hear the voices." (Talia
Winters, B5 "Mind War" )

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
> "Arthur Hagen" <art@broomstick.com> wrote:
>
>> You *wait* at least half a second for every action you do until
>> something happens. Having five different PDAs
>> from different eras, I notice the difference quite well.
>
> Are you really griping about a *half second* wait Art?

Yes. That's noticable, because *my* reaction time is faster than that.
It's worse than the difference between a slow electric typewriter and a
fast computer. Remember Telex? Type too fast, and you wait for the
device to catch up.

>> And flipping pages in a PeanutPress/eReader book
>> is much slower on the Zire 72 than it ever was on any old model.
>
> I have that reader on my Z72 and page flipping is less than half a
> second.
> I guess you really are complaining about a half second. Don't you
> think that may be just a little too critical?

No, I think not. That's enough for it to be an annoying wait. One of
the fundamental designs of the original Palm was that the user should
/never/ have to wait for the device (search obviously excepted).

>> Isn't it "uncivil" to not look at who actually said it before trying
>> to slam who *quoted* it? (Or to snip away the attribution while
>> leaving in the text, for that matter?)
>
> Huh?? You need to use English Art... But if you're trying to
> say you don't like my editing, just show me where I changed your
> meaning and we'll discuss it.

Not *my* meaning, which was the whole point here.
In your answer, you tried to ridicule me for the following statement:

>>>> and simple things that used to be blazingly fast on the original
>>>> 16 MHz Palms are suddenly slow?

The flaw you made is that it wasn't me who wrote that, it was Logan
Shaw.

--
*Art

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Jeffrey Kaplan wrote:

> Graffiti 2 is a direct result of a lost lawsuit filed by Xerox.

JFTR: Xerox lost the lawsuit, not Palm. Palm *could* dump G2 and go back to
G1....

Gruß,
Oliver
--
[Käufer ersteigert Computer bei eBay, bekommt wertlose Backsteine gelie-
fert, gibt zunächst positive Bewertung ab, 4 Tage später erst Beschwerde]
"Oder er hat versucht, 4 Tage lang auf den Steinen Linux zu installieren."
[Klaus Müller in daea]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

AaronJ wrote:

> If Palm went back to G1 then they/we would have to listen to all those new
> owners complaining about that terrible G1 and how much they loved G2...

Right. Maybe that's why they still stick to G2 :-(
I think it's just a matter of what you're used to. I didn't like G2 (aka
Jot) on my first WinCE-PDA and don't like it on todays Palms.

regards,
Oliver

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is alleged that Arthur Hagen claimed:

; > Two of those wants are mutually incompatible. You cannot have
; > something that is both simple and full of features.
;
; Things can be both advanced and simple to operate. In fact, technology
; advances can make things *simpler* -- you no longer have to crank the
; engine to start your car, or adjust the fuel mixture, or even use an oil
; dip stick.

On the other hand, we now have multifunctional audio entertainment
systems, video entertainment systems, transmissions that can be
switched from "economy" to "performance" modes, and oodles of other
buttons. I thought my car (Mazda6) had a feature-laden dash and center
panel, but it's positively spartan compared to my brother's (Saab 93).

As one aspect gets simplified, other things tend to get added that
maintain the overall complexity level. You simply cannot add options
without, well, adding the options to the UI. And as the software
demands go up, the hardware requirements go up. As the hardware
capabilities go up, there is more room for software capabilities.

; > ; Now upgrade it with new features, like a 480x480 "electronic paper"
; > You just doubled (at least) the size, or made the resolution too small
; > to read.
;
; No, you didn't. You're erroneously assuming that fonts will stay the
; same size. Instead you can have a font that's three times as high and
; wide, and much, much *smoother* and well designed. Same with lines,
; boxes and similar, which scale. PalmOS already has this functionality
; built-in, and that's why 320x320 devices work. 480x480 or even 640x640
; can work just as well (or actually better).

What is the point of diminishing returns? If you want a +simpler+
device, then there is no need for VGA or half-VGA resolutions on such a
small form factor. I obviously cannot speak for other people, but I
find 320x320 to be perfectly fine. The only issue I have with the
resolution is that many things are +not+ scaling. Unless the
individual graphics in applications were drawn with 320x in mind, they
are blocky when scaled up.

The only reason +I+ can see to go beyond 320x resolution is for
multimedia. And there goes your simplicity.

; > You just halved the battery life, or increased the battery size,
; > thereby increasing the size of the unit.
;
; I see that you (presumably deliberately) snipped what went between the
; above sentence fragment and the start of the sentence. Let me repeat it
; in full:

I was treating the two options you listed as separate options, so I
addressed them separately.

; Note the "... for those who value battery life, or ...". With the
; electronic paper type display, battery life would be /increased/.

I'm not questioning that. My comment about the "electronic paper"
display was only regarding the size/resolution you offered.

; As for OLED, it's less power hungry at the same intensity than regular
; colour LED screens, so while it would use more juice than a monochrome,
; it would use less than the current top models.

How much less? And also, how responsive is it compared to what we have
now?

; > ; High Speed, 802.11g WiFi, lots of memory and built-in flash, and an
; >
; > More battery sacrifice in either capacity or increased size, or both.
;
; More membory and built-in flash doesn't take up any noticable space. If
; anything, today's components are /smaller/ than the less capable
; components used five years ago.

I did not feel like splitting the line. But if the memory is not NVFS,
then it will require more power to maintain than less of it, and NVFS
has issues of its own.

; Yes, 802.11g WiFi would use battery - *when used*. It doesn't /have/ to
; be used, unlike the display and CPU. And you'd be surprised how small
; those things are these days. The decrease in size for other components
; would easily make up for the extra chip. Going Bluetooth instead of
; WiFi almost certainly has hurt Palm sales.

The two are not mutually exclusive. AAMOF, they serve two different
purposes. WiFi is great for IP networking without wires, but BT is
better suited for wireless accessories, such as PDA/cellphone,
phone/car speaker kit, PDA/keyboard.

And, the T|C has WiFi and the LD has both WiFi and BT.

; > ; upgraded PalmOS 4.x on a mc68k, not running under an emulator on a
; > ; power-hungry CPU.
; >
; > OS4 is dead. OS5 is current. So sorry, but deal with it.
;
; So sorry, but a PalmOS 4 device came out as late as two months ago.
; Deal with it.

Who makes it?

; > ; Light weight is not a plus if it means a bigger device. A four
; > ounce ; small PDA will stay in your pocket a lot better than a six
; > ounce PDA ; that's twice the size, and feel better in your hand too.
; > Maybe what you want is carbon fiber.
; No, that's too light. You want something small yet massive.

Make up you mind, please. Or clarify better. It looked like you
wanted "small light and strong". Plastic is lighter than metal, but
(according to you) inherently bulkier, thus increasing the size for the
same strength. So, to make it smaller and not use metal, carbon fiber
(or similar) is an option.

; > ; On the other hand, the plastic isn't rigid and gives, leading to
; > ; inaccuracies in screen recognition. Plastic is also less clear than
; > ; glass, and has higher refraction.
; >
; > Depends on the plastic and glass in question. I've seen
; > non-reflective plastic and glass that was nothing +but+ reflections
; > (and no, it was
; > not a mirror). The screen protector I put on my Treo is plastic, and
; > has less reflectivity than the glass windshield of my car.
;
; I said refraction, not reflection.

So you did, sorry.

How do you feel about polycarbonate? My eyeglasses are made from it.
Thinner, lighter and stronger than glass with the same clarity.

; > ; > My 2 newest models (TE and Z72) never crash unless I'm trying new
; > ; > software. Which bug were you referring to?
; > ;
; > ; Where should I begin? Network UDP wake-up being broken in all 5.x
; >
; > Why are you waking your PDA over the net anyway? Not saying your
; > statement isn't valid, I'm wondering why it's an issue.
;
; It's the other way around. The PDA wakes up the HotSync software,
; shaving a few seconds off the time starting the HotSync.

Oh. Not synching via a network, I have no clue on that. I just leave
Hotsync Manager running and sync via USB.

; > ; versions? Errors in memory consolidation after hotsync, leading to
; > ; fragmentation and eventually running out of memory (try syncing 20
; > times
; >
; > Is that OS5 in general, or NVFS in particular?
;
; OS5 in general.

I've had my Treo (OS5.4 now, after applying the firmware/OS update),
was 5.2) for about six weeks. To my knowledge, I have not run out of
memory, and the crashes I did have were related to issues with how
PalmOS works with NVFS and purging the DBcache specifically. Prior to
my upgrade to the Treo, I hadn't paid close attention to OS5 issues (I
had actually thought I'd be able to skip OS5 entirely, but being a
smartphone user, my cellular provider changed my mind by not providing
service where I now live. Changing providers perforce meant upgrading
my device, esp. when going from CDMA to GSM).

; > ; in a row on a PalmOS 5 device). "Mad digitizer" syndrome?
; > Graffiti 2 ; (which is "broken by design", in that some combinations
; > are incompatible
; > Graffiti 2 is a direct result of a lost lawsuit filed by Xerox.
; And Palm has decided to stick with it *why*, again?

Because the base is what the current users are already familiar with,
would be my guess. Changing only what is needed to comply is usually a
good thing to do, unless you +want+ to completely revamp the item.

--
Jeffrey Kaplan www.gordol.org
The from userid is killfiled Send personal mail to gordol

"I want us to be what we used to be. I want... I want it all back the
way that it was!" (Amb. Mollari, B5 "Signs and Portents" )

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Jeffrey Kaplan <cspp@gordol.org> wrote:
> It is alleged that Arthur Hagen claimed:
>
> ;
> ; No, you didn't. You're erroneously assuming that fonts will stay
> the ; same size. Instead you can have a font that's three times as
> high and ; wide, and much, much *smoother* and well designed. Same
> with lines, ; boxes and similar, which scale. PalmOS already has
> this functionality ; built-in, and that's why 320x320 devices work.
> 480x480 or even 640x640 ; can work just as well (or actually better).
>
> What is the point of diminishing returns? If you want a +simpler+
> device, then there is no need for VGA or half-VGA resolutions on such
> a small form factor. I obviously cannot speak for other people, but I
> find 320x320 to be perfectly fine. The only issue I have with the
> resolution is that many things are +not+ scaling. Unless the
> individual graphics in applications were drawn with 320x in mind, they
> are blocky when scaled up.
>
> The only reason +I+ can see to go beyond 320x resolution is for
> multimedia. And there goes your simplicity.

You're not doing a lot of reading, I take it? A font can be much better
rendered and kerned in a higher resolution, leading to much greater
readability. Why run 1600x1200 with large fonts on a 19" display, when
you can run 1024x768 and small fonts instead? The main reason for me
and many others is that text looks much better.

This is also why the Sony eBook reader (which name escapes me) has a
very high resolution -- it makes reading a much more pleasant
experience.

(Note that this is only true as long as there's no discernable gaps
between each pixel -- if there is, like on early LCD's, the opposite is
true, and using too high resolution causes everything to "run together"
and look washed out. However, today's display technologies are much
more mature than they were five years ago.)

> ; As for OLED, it's less power hungry at the same intensity than
> regular ; colour LED screens, so while it would use more juice than a
> monochrome, ; it would use less than the current top models.
>
> How much less? And also, how responsive is it compared to what we
> have now?

I'm not sure it would be suitable for games yet, but it sure looks
wonderful for images. As for battery use, it's hard to say exactly, as
it depends on what is being displayed, unlike regular back-lit colour
LCD screens. If the screen is full white, it would probably use /more/
battery than an LCD screen, but also be much brighter. If reducing the
brightness to LCD levels, power use with 2nd generation LEDs should be
comparable. However, if a large part of the display is NOT lit up
white, the power consumption should be much lower, down to near zero for
a black screen.

> ; > ; upgraded PalmOS 4.x on a mc68k, not running under an emulator
> on a ; > ; power-hungry CPU.
> ; >
> ; > OS4 is dead. OS5 is current. So sorry, but deal with it.
> ;
> ; So sorry, but a PalmOS 4 device came out as late as two months ago.
> ; Deal with it.
>
> Who makes it?

Some of the newer PalmOS 4 devices include Aceeca Meazura, Kyocera and
Samsung pdaphones, and the Fossil/Abacus watch/pda combos. I believe
there's also a couple of new products out on the Chinese market that we
don't see in the west.

> ; > ; Light weight is not a plus if it means a bigger device. A four
> ; > ounce ; small PDA will stay in your pocket a lot better than a six
> ; > ounce PDA ; that's twice the size, and feel better in your hand
> too. ; > Maybe what you want is carbon fiber.
> ; No, that's too light. You want something small yet massive.
>
> Make up you mind, please. Or clarify better. It looked like you
> wanted "small light and strong". Plastic is lighter than metal, but
> (according to you) inherently bulkier, thus increasing the size for
> the same strength. So, to make it smaller and not use metal, carbon
> fiber (or similar) is an option.

I want it light, but massive. An ounce of feathers weighs the same as
an ounce of iridium, but the latter is more massive. If you could make
a PDA half the thickness but weighing only a third less, it would feel
more massive.

> How do you feel about polycarbonate? My eyeglasses are made from it.
> Thinner, lighter and stronger than glass with the same clarity.

Not the *same* clarity, but close. Also, it's not as scratch resistant
as good glass, but that is less of a concern for a PDA which has a
plastic layer on top of the glass anyhow. As long as it can be *rigid*
enough, I wouldn't mind. However, most PDA screens today "give" when
you scribble on them, even when using a light touch, and I'm not too
fond of that.
Optical quality plastic would probably be much better, but likely more
expensive than either crystal glass or what's being used now.

Regards,
--
*Art