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Eden.


Define, precisely, what the difference between "full-Palladium", and "partial-Palladium" is.

What, specifically, is against the rulez?

What will be the difference, exactly, between running a T-Bird 1.4ghz and Windows ME, and an ntel P4-with-partial-palladium-instrucions and what-the-holy-hell-evar-msft-OS-with-partial-palladium-code?

So, you can't run Kazaa Lite anymore? How about Clonecd with a illegal serial number? Photoshop 7.0beta, even though final has been out for a year and a half? How about Office2002: Corporate without SP1, and with an old msft-keygen code?

Making a 1:1 copy of Lord of the Rings-soundtrack? How about the Icewind Dale2-Collector's Edition Soundtrack that has a mixed mode1/audio (cd-extra) format?

Ripping Forrest Gump DVD to Divx (or hell, Cinipak and .mp3 for that matter)?


Where is the Partial Line being drawn at?


P4's @ 3600Mhz ()wNz J00 4LL!!!!!!

i believe you severely missed my point. you say everyone should pay for their software fairly because software people work really hard to develop it. i'm saying so does hardware people who developed your cpus. if you overclock, you're essentially getting a better cpu for the same price, right? .. while at this point, you might say, "so what, if i have the smarts and skills to do it and agree to invalidate my warrantee, there's nothing wrong with it".

but remember, doing something just because you can doesn't make it right. 16 yr old kids rip and d/l software because they can.

i still don't think i'm saying what i want to say, but hopefully you're getting my point that overclocking hurts businesses as well... my reason for speaking up wasn't relating to legality but integrity...

i will stand alone as the only person in this forum to acknowlege that overclocking is partial lack of integrity (cheating the company)... your argument for overclocking may be made to defend that mod chips for playstations/dreamcasts are gravy too. what a shame.

<font color=green> there's more to life than increasing its speed -Ghandi</font color=green>

I work for Intel, so if anyone here should feel "cheated" by overclockers, I suppose it should be me. But on the contrary, when I read about someone getting a great overclock with one of our products I'm glad to see it. I, and many of my coworkers, <b>like</b> to see people having fun with our products, and getting great performance out of them. For a while there was even talk of an enthusiast CPU (don't get too excited guys - I think it got killed(?) along with a lot of other projects due to the economy).

I don't think a CPU is any different from any other piece of hardware. If you pay your hard earned money for it, then by all means you should get every ounce of utility from it you can. (Do I lack integrity if I use a screwdriver to beat in a nail, instead of going and buying the manufacturer's hammer? Do I lack integrity if I add an after-market carb to make my car go faster?) Once you buy it, it's yours. Have fun. The integrity part comes in if you kill it in the process and want us to replace it for free...

* Not speaking for Intel Corp *

I'm going to have to go with ntel-boy on this one.

Dude, if you want to get idealistic, I can get midi-idealistic on your...

So, anyway, this is all highly subjective. That's why the Constitution and the Bible were written like that. That's why we have a Judicial branch, Priests, and Rabbii.

There's a bit of "interpretation" in there, and as of right now, Ca$h is the interpreter.

P4's @ 3600Mhz ()wNz J00 4LL!!!!!!

I knew you were from Intel! And I also know that indeed those who work there are people driven by enthusiasm. It has always been the marketting dept that simply ruins a company. They do nothing, but hype and stupid adds, while the people who really are smart, are never looked at.

Do you know Raystonn? He was another Intel employee in this forum, but the dude ran off and never came back, and pretty much destroyed my respect to him, as he only came back once to show Tbred's bad OCing, then never came back. Shame.

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as an enthusiasts, i completely understand your argument.. but if you're a good employee and cares about the bottom line profits of your company, you'd cared if 1 million users buy cheaper cpus to overclock them and save $100 each.. do the math. it is hurting somebody's profits i'm sure. ... and if everyone getz into the habit of overclocking, how much will it cost intel? come on, just because you and i think napster was great doesn't make it right.
have you ever heard of mod playstation so you can play copied games.. paying legit for something is one thing, but modifying it goes beyond that. i wonder why microsoft was pissed about it's xbox turning into a linux box.

you're a young employee and knows little of what affects a company like intel. you're promoting users they shouldn't buy newly research/developed cpus, but buy the old cheap ones and oc them. while i'm all for it, it is not right for the company and it is a 'partial' lack of integrity.

<font color=green> there's more to life than increasing its speed -Ghandi</font color=green>

>>>if everyone getz into the habit of overclocking, how much will it cost intel?

That's just it - not everyone will. It's an enthusiast thing. Not everyone hot rods their car. And they never will. Hey, if everyone wants to go buy a top of the line P4 I'm all for it - sure would help my stock options. But I'm not going to hold it against someone who wants to squeeze every ounce of performance out of a product they paid good money for - that's just plain greedy. And most enthusiasts want the fastest machine they can get - so they probably upgrade more often than the average person regardless of whether they overclock or not. I appreciate your sense of honesty and integrity, but I think it's a bit overboard. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Napster and modded xboxes are a completely different issue. There you're talking about using something (songs, games) for which a user never paid.

>>>you're a young employee

Sorry to disappoint - I'm not that young any more...

>>>and knows little of what affects a company like intel

That's more than a bit presumptuous. Who works here...and attends the quarterly business update meetings? I think I have a pretty good grasp of the factors, internal and external, that affect our business. Of all the things that affect our profits, the 2% or so of users who overclock just aren't a big factor, and probably never will be.

So to wrap it up:

Q: Does overclocking hurt our profits?
A: Perhaps minimally

Q: Is overclocking immoral?
A: My <b>opinion</b> - absolutely not.

You are welcome to differ in your opinions...

* Not speaking for Intel Corp *

i amazes me how you can agree that it affects profits and say that it is absolutely not immoral. at least i bent a little by saying 'partial' lack of integrity.

that's like saying you can steal a stick of gum from the groceries store and it's perfectly fine cos it's only a stick of gum and it costs almost nothing, and no one would miss it or worry about it.... however, i highly doubt you ever stole a stick of gum from the groceries store (well at least past grade school anyways). why? because no matter how small and insignificant it is, you know it's wrong.

when i said i stand alone in the forum to take the side against oc, i never imagine it was more true than i realized.

oc is after all, stealing a few mhz here and there. while some may argue that if you have the skills to do it, you should. well, a thief has the skills to snatch that stick of gum too, how is he more or less wrong than the overclocker that stole a couple mhz from intel?

<font color=green> there's more to life than increasing its speed -Ghandi</font color=green>

You're one of those people who will argue, just for the sake of arguing, aren't you?

Anyways, back to the Pall-a-dium deal.


Eden?

Are you just going to gaff me off, or answer my last question?

P4's @ 3600Mhz ()wNz J00 4LL!!!!!!

no, i don't blindly argue just to argue. i had a point in there somewhere.

earlier in the thread, ppl were swarming over the software/mp3 pirates, i just wanted to turn the table.. even for a moment. i wanted to be the clown that says 'let the person without sin casts the first stone'.

<font color=green> there's more to life than increasing its speed -Ghandi</font color=green>

Sorry shallowbaby, don't mean to attack or ostracize an honest man - especially when there are so few left. But the fact that someone overclocking their CPU might have a small effect on some company's profits does not in and of itself make the act immoral. If having a negative effect on a company's profits is immoral, I guess I better go destroy that blow dryer I've been using for 20 years. I'm sure it's lasted way longer than the manufacturer really intended it to, and must be cutting into their profits.

>>>oc is after all, stealing a few mhz here and there. while some may argue that if you have the skills to do it, you should. well, a thief has the skills to snatch that stick of gum too, how is he more or less wrong than the overclocker that stole a couple mhz from intel?

In one case, a person is taking something for which they did not pay. In the other case, they are using something they paid for as best it will perform. Even though both actions may have negative financial consequences for the companies producing the products, I see a huge moral difference between them.

I'm all for making a profit - my job depends on it. But once somebody <b><i>pays</i></b> their hard earned money for a product, I think they have every right to squeeze as much juice as they can get out of it.

* Not speaking for Intel Corp *

Sorry, I have no idea who the guy is. As you might imagine, this is a fairly large company (about 10,000 people on this campus alone).

Hey dude,
sorry I didn't reply, I was indeed distracted by other posts, but I didn't get what you were trying to say? Were you being against my claims or with? Please re-explain if you can!

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I bottom lined it for ya', but forgot to note-er-ize it.


Bottom Line: Where is the "Partial" line drawn at?

P4's @ 3600Mhz ()wNz J00 4LL!!!!!!

I personally don't know, but recent articles indicate it will fully use Palladium. In fact Opteron is said to use as well, but is not something which prevents use of non-Palladium software, as rumors had said.

I simply don't know the partial's meaning, I suppose using only a CPU ID, but not validation processes and extensions.

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Here we go:

<A HREF="http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/7/9/17842/90350" target="_new">http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2002/7/9/17842/90350</A>

This one describes only one particular. DVD's and TCPA.

But, you can broaden it out to whatever else you'd like.

Partial Palladium? I can't think of an instance where "Partial Palladium" could be "partial".

It's either full on, or full off. Anything else lets someone into the system. This is how they did the Sony PSX2, if you read through the article, and h3ll; if it's even accurate/factual/truthful.

You can boot into Linux on a PSX2, but you can't boot into Linux and watch a DVD. You're either watching DVD's, or you're using Linux. You're either using msft Palladium stuff, or you're not using msft.

Until someone gets enough distributed computing power together to crack the encryption. This is why the codekeys, firmware, and actual hardware for military secure-communications changes every day/quarter/two-years. When someone literally dies because of the security breech, you avoid the security breech.

If it's fixed, you can crack it.

"Fixed fortifications are monuments to the stupidity of Man."

[edit: this one was just so outstanding, I had to post it.

P4's @ 3600Mhz ()wNz J00 4LL!!!!!!<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by ejsmith2 on 09/26/02 05:05 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

As I read more and more about this, the possiblities are endless.

Dude, TCPA and Palladium roXXors my boXXors !!!!!!!!@@!!!@!




Thank you all for starting this thread. I was SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO (friggin) nieve before I read through a couple of the posted links, and started paying attention to my news ticker.


The people who totally make out on this are the marketing guys. They get all the booze, and now they will be running the coding division as well. It's like, Heaven on Earth!

I have got to get rid of this CE geek crap I've been reading about, and get over to the MBA track.


I am totally making those worthless bastages code me an updated version of Star Control 2 and Conan: Halls of Volta...


P4's @ 3600Mhz ()wNz J00 4LL!!!!!!

BTW...I was reading some of the posts about the "kid who just wanted to draw...." (sniff, sniff). The fact is that if you really just want to fiddle around with some of the really expensive software most companies will let you get an acemdemic liscense for cheap. I recently got a liscensed copy of visual studio.net for $4.95, Autocad LT for $69.00, and Visual J++ for $9.95. You can't go off and sell your creation or content under these liscenses, but they are fully functional and let you paly to your hearts content. There ARE legal ways of getting the applications without paying a full developer's price.

Is there a synonym for thesaurus?