DIY HD HTPC Extravaganza - Page 2

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For System #1 Microsoft Windows XP Professional was used, but XP Home would have worked, too

For System #2 Microsoft Windows MCE 2005 was used.

Been reading Tom's for years....great site.

I think just about everything of importance in relation to HTPC has been covered in this thread so far, but I just have to post.

First off, here is what I ended up with.

Windows MCE 2005
Ahanix Dvine (D3 i think) case
AMD Athlon 3000+ (water cooled)
Asus A7V600
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro with Zalman Heat Pipe
ATI HDTV Wonder (external powered antenna)
ATI TV Wonder Pro
Seagate 160 GB SATA (2)
Coolmax Fanless 350 watt P.S.
Asus Quiet Track DVD drive
NEC 16X DL DVD
Soundblaster Audigy2 ZS

I put this PC together with some new and old components last year. Try not to scoff at the Athlon or 9800

PC runs at between 57 and 62 degrees C. It's hot because there is only 1 60mm exhaust fan. Poor cooling in the early Ahanix cases, hot Athlon, and hot components like northbridge, P.S., and vid card all add up when you have inadequate case cooling. Even with all that I don't get above 62, and have never had a temp. problem.

Here are some things that need to be mentioned. I'm using a 57" Toshiba rear-projection TV. The only way I could get a usable resolution was to get the DVI to component converter from ATI. At the standard 1080i resolution I wasn't able to read the text outside of the Media Center app. I run 720p with the font and icon size increased up.

I tried using the onboard sound, connected to my reciever. Bad choice (crackles and pops, volume changes). I had to get the Audigy 2. The sound quality is great, but you can only pass the digital signal to the reciever when using an app like Power DVD. While watching any non-digital TV, recorded TV, or any music, the sound passed is not digital. Don't know why this is...

I use the Logitch DeNovo wireless keyboad and mouse. I was less then impressed with Tom's choice (cheap looking). I use the microsoft MCE 2005 remote control ($30 with IR blaster). The IR blaster is a must for changing the channel on any cable or sat box. And speaking of the cable box, having to pass HD content via S-video is terribe. When are tuner cards going to add a DVI or component input?

I had to add the Asus Quiet Track DVD drive because the NEC insisted on running at full (and loud) speed the entire time I watched a DVD. The Asus is inaudible in comparison.

That's because to do that you'd need a DD 'live' encoder, found on Soundstorm and the newer C-Media chipsets. Only really necessary if you haven't got 6ch input on your receiver though, since DD is a lossy compression.

And agreed, an 'HTPC on a budget' article would be a *great* idea... difficult to pull off, but great nonetheless.

As the objective is: "a quiet Windows Media center-based HTPC suitable for living room use that can play back a wide variety of video and audio formats. Our HTPC should also be able to record and play back HDTV content and play standard DVDs." I would expect the author to keep an eye on the ball here.

The objective is to have a PC that would capture video (tuner) record it on hard disk and play it back sometime(s). Added is the capability of playing audio (radio, mp3, ...) and video (DVD, DivXviD, ...).

So, a modern VCR (DVR/PVR). Price conscious.

For that, I do not need a 256 MB ram graphic card with dual core CPUs. I would need a decent capture (HW supported) card and a lousy CPU that would enable me to play DivXviD with subtitles type of videos. For that alone a Pentium 700 would be enough. A TV OUT function could fulfill any low cost graphic card. So, there you have it. A low cost DVR.

In that sense, the article was a big flop as it did not (thoroughly) review the TV IN cards (tuners). So, should I choose Leadtek WinFast PVR2000 or Sapphire Theatrix 550 pro? Well, how should I know? Perhaps old but proven Hauppauge WinTV-PVR 150 is the best of them all? No info there.

How about the TV OUT capabilities? Everyone is talking about HDTV, I do not have a display for this, but I do have a 16:9 geometry. Some of the TV OUT cards do not even support that (on the budged here). In this regard, I do not want to be future ready, as in when the future will be now, I will gladly replace the TV IN and TV OUT cards with contemporary ones.

From this basic issues, author could expand to issues like keeping the noise down. A diskless DVR PC would come in handy. This could be achieved trough a solid state disks, bootable DVD OS (not likely) or simply boot via BOOTP (wirelessly) from you file server that is as noisy as it usually is but it does not bother you as it is far far away in the...

Next level of features cold be games. Finally those 256 MB cards and dual core CPUs will come in handy. All those emulators! Playing Ridge Racer from PlayStation on your favorite DVR PC perhaps Commodore 64 and its assortment. So, we come to the software issue. More precisely, OS issue. Do I really need an MS W Media CE 2005 OS, or, could I use regular XP (perhaps some UNIX flavor, linux) and configure skins of my favorite programs to have buttons ten times the size they usually have. With more general OS, I could dig into all kind of games, via emulator or not. No problems when there is a new codec available for whatever and software.

As this is still a PC, I could be happy with wireless keyboard with integrated substitute for a mouse.

The is a lot that could come from this article, but did not (except for the pictures).

I think the components are reasonable. Recording HD content is totally up-in-the-air (LOL) anyway, but its nice to know you chose an interface for at least video out to an HD display.

The only concern I would raise is that the PVR software and associated hardware probably should be evaluated together. There are many great software products, and they mostly support specific hardware (tuners with hardware encoding and/or decoding for example). I would worry that you would limit your software choices by picking the hardware first and the software later.

Now for a quick rant...

As a survivor of the original Gateway Destination, I can tell you that today the situation is SO much better than it was back then. While I only have the case from my original Destination and the 36" screen from that little venture, I have built anew from scratch, using "off-the-shelf" parts, and freeware software. And even Microsoft is supporting the HTPC arena now, if you want an end-to-end supported product. Whereas in the past you had to rely on an expensive and proprietary manufactured solution with no choice in hardware and software, you now have a huge range of choices in off-the-shelf products!

I would say to anyone who is saying the HTPC "has a long way to go", it sounds as if you have'nt been on the playing field for very long.

More power to you THG for keeping tabs on this landscape!

LA.

What good is investing all this money if it does not support HD content or provide a decent image via DVD's? There are a lot of people who have no idea what they are doing reading this forum and do not know what HDCP (High bandwith Data Content Protection) is or that HD material will only be available via HDMI or DVI with this protocol. Just look at all the displays sold with component inputs or DVI without HDCP support. There are going to be a lot of upset people when the switch is made.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=851

Convenience over Quality seems to be the story of the day. Just look at the popularity of MP3' and Bose speakers.

Didn't Tom's choose kind of a low-end processor whose advantage is that it is not very hot? (I mean low-end in comparison with Sempron's and so forth actual processing power. That's not a loaded question, it's a real one, I have not found a comparison chart, it's just the impression I got given the description, mhz, and price).

You say no 64MB graphics card, does that mean that you would rule out onboard graphics entirely?

What about a board like this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813136007

with the cheapest processor that would fit on it (and no additional graphics card) (and a big slow quiet fan and heatsink)?

Again, these questions are not loaded, they are genuine (just trying to see what I get for spending $500 on the processor and board in this install). I have been meaning to get around to building one of these since around Christmas time (to replace my low-GAF gbpvr on old-laptop) and was really happy to see that Tom's was finally doing another article on media centers (there was one a long time ago, but the box came out to like $2500 as I recall) but was really disappointed with the post-case-choice installment chapters of this (which seem more like regular magazine fluff than the usual thorough Tom's stuff imo...note the contradiction from I to III's "very important to have a quiet harddrive, in fact here's an expensive all-RAM thing" to "we didn't see much difference in drives so just put one in we found lying on the floor" [paraphrasing of course].)

SO let's say I want to do HDTV, record one, watch another, using MCE. What do I really need for processor and graphics card, in your opinion, presuming the box will never be used for gaming or anything besides in this media capacity (occassional remote desktop logins for patches and such, would be about it)?

Also, you mentioned that Windows MCE was just XP with MC on it...is the media center software available seperately for purchase/download/install on XP?

Thanks.

I think that using an Athlon 64 with a "big, slow fan" would be a better solution than the mobile Pentium unless you are going for small form factor. Using a $50 heat sink with a 120 mm fan (Cooler Master, AC, Thermaltake...) would seem to be quiet, powerful, and cool. And I personally feel that cases by Ahanix, Silverstone, and even Thermaltake tend to have a little more quality and better looks than most others on the market.

As far as HDDs are concerned, I've noticed that my Seagate (can't remember model #) is far quieter then the WD I've used. Alot of people are probably thinking that the noise from a HDD or DVD drive is too trivial, but I couldn't stand watching a movie and hearing the DVD drive spinning at full speed, or the HDD going nuts during quite dialog.

I can't give you an experienced opinion on using motherboads with built in video with Nvidia or ATI chipsets as I've never used them. Every on-board sound I've ever used has been atrocious. But consider this info from Microsoft: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/w [...] ingPC.aspx

I've recorded lots of TV shows in HD, and I usually end up with an 8 GB file per 1 hour show. I've tried to play it back on PCs with 64 MB onboard video and 2 GHZ Pentium 4 and it was extremely choppy.

I've never seen the MC app seperatley (someone may have hacked it though).

I just priced out what I thought would make a good HTPC using the MB you mentioned, Athlon 64 3500, and 500 GB storage; came out just under $800.

DFI RS482 motherboard - $96.99
AMD Athlon 64 3500+ - $201
ARCTIC COOLING Freezer 64 Pro - $34.99
CORSAIR ValueSelect 1GB (2 x 512MB) - $66.90
Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 250GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA150 (2) - $190.00
NEC IDE/ATAPI 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Model ND-3550A - $35.99-$37.99 (black or silver)
ASUS Black/Silver IDE DVD-ROM Drive Model DVD-E616AG - $22.99
SILVERSTONE LASCALA SST-LC13-S Silver Computer Case - $99.99
Thermaltake TR2 W0070 430W Power Supply - $39.99

Total $790.94
Total with all options $1,208

I didn't include TV tuner cards because it really depends on what you want and can get. I use ATI cards because when I built my system they were one of the few that made MCE compatible cards. An analog card like the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR-150 are $62.99, or a top-of-the-line ATI TV Wonder Elite from around $118. You can also grab the ATI HDTV Wonder for $115. I ended up with 3 remote controls though, LOL.

I would always do research to see if the CPU fan and P.S. will fit in any HTPC case you purchase. Many of these components I have never used, so I can't tell you how well they will all work together, but from my exp with this type of equipment and brands, they should work nicely.

Suggested additions:
Microsoft MCE with remote control and I.R. blaster - $159.94
Logitech DeNovo wireless keyboard and mouse - $80-$135 (RF or Bluetooth)

Been reading Tom's for years and always interested in HTPC articles as I think it's the future of Home Entertainment. I have evolved my setup over the past 1 year or so trying various components. Basically it started like this.
I had an old iCute case, Asus A7n8x-deluxe (NF2 chipset) & 2 80gb HDD's lying around so I brought 2 x 512mb of DDR400 RAM, a Sempron 2200+ CPU (didn't need to be latest and greatest just fast enough and run coolish), a Samsung DVD ROM, Logitech Wireless Keyboard/Mouse combo and a Linksys USB Wireless adaptor, added to an ATi All in Wonder PCI card I aquired and XP-pro I had the basis of my initial setup. I hooked this up to my Sony CRT Widescreen with the S-video out and Sony 5.1 Amp with the co-ax out of the ASUS board.
This worked fine, great sound and plays DVD, DivX and holds my MP3 and film collection.
However the Akasa cooler was too noisy and the blue fans in the black midi case looked daft in the living room as well as being noisy, so after getting it running nicely I disconnected all but 1 of the fans on the case and purchase a quiet thermaltake cpu cooler, this worked to cure 90% of my noise issues. However I could now hear my two older 80gb drives making noise and they were 75% full.
I then purchased 2 Western Digital 160GB SATA drives and used them in a striped RAID set, this cured my HDD noise and gave me nearly 200GB free and a useful performance boost.
When I got a new job and a pay rise I decided to make updates to the system in looks and splashed out on a Thermaltake Mozart case (which was reviewed but not chosen) as it looked good, didn't cost the earth and most importantly could accomodate my ASUS board, combined with a Large Fan Slient 550w (I wanted plenty of overhead) PSU and a Freecom USB DVB-T stick (need to use it with my laptop when I use my Caravan for Racing) for Digital TV. I also added a CD Burner (I have a DVD burner on my workhorse in my office upstairs) for the wife to create CD's for her car MP3 player.
The look was now complete and it sits in the stand under the TV and looks far more natural, runs at about 55 degrees when loaded and is quiet enough so as not to interupt the TV. The Sempron has enough guts to play films, music or encode TV or DivX and the storage was fine.
Next I wanted to replace the aging AIW card so went for a Radeon 9200 VIVO so I could input from my old VHS and Hi-8 tapes as well as my Sky Digibox, it's a fanless card and low powered, but I don't play games on the system anyway.

To sum up I have:
Thermaltake Mozart Case
Sempron 2200+ CPU
1GB DDR Dual channel ram
320GB SATA RAID
Radeon 9200 64mb VIVO
Samsung DVD
Lite-ON CDRW
Freecom DVB-T Stick
Linksys USB Wireless
Logitech Wireless Keyboard/Mouse
Sony STDB-790 Reciever
Sony 32" Widescreen CRT
Sky Digibox

Where next then?
A remote control that can control most features (the DVB stick has it's own already) for the times when I can't be arsed to get up off the sofa.
32" or 37" LCD TV to enhance the viewing experience and my PC use more enjoyable.
Maybe an Audigy sound card to improve on sound quality.
A Sky Digibox with Toslink for better sound from the TV.
And more storage as my film library grows.

Carl.

It is all connected to my Sony Reciever so I may just leave that side of things alone.
I have been looking at the Thermaltake Media lab kit for my case to tie it all together with the nice interface and remote, so might go for that in a couple of months.
The one thing that is causing problems at the moment is the crummy Video capture and recording from analogue in.
To start with the picture in from both Svideo and composite on the Radeon was almost scrambled, however running a program called ATV2000 first miraculously brought it back to almost perfect. I say almost perfect because there is still a bit of distortion at the top of the picture and minor banding across the rest of it. This type of problem has been noticed on Rage Theatre based card and I can't find a conclusive answer (the ATV2000 one is the closest I can get ATM).
The other problem is with the amount of Video I can capture, even with working with 200GB free I get to about 15minutes of captured video and it just stops this is with PowerVCR and Cyberlinks DVD authoring encoder that came with my JVC DV Cam, Windows Media encoder freezes (but it's crap anyway). I was going to try Adobe Premiere but I think this will do the same, as it did with the old All in Wonder card. The all in wonder didn't experience the quality issues but the recording length problems was the same.

Carl.

I had just finished an HTPC using the Silverstone L16M-B when you wrote this. One trouble I had was that a full-length graphics card (e.g. any ATI X1800 or later) will not fit with even the smallest of DVD players in the 5.25" bay. To work around this, I made a custom power connector for the auxilliary power supply for an X1800XL. I don't think it would pass UL tests, but it gets the power where it needs to go without shorting out the DVD player...

LC16M-B
Intel X955XBK
Intel Pentium D 3.0 GHz, 830, with Thermalright XP90C (?) cooler
ATI X1800XL, with Zalman VF700Cu cooler
2 GB Ram (Geil, I think)
4 x 400 GB WD400 SATA drives, the RAID flavor (RE something), in a matrix RAID 5 (1 TB), RAID 0 (125 GB) array
HP lite-on dual-layer DVD R/W
ATI HDTV Wonder
Hauppauge 500 dual-tuner
Wi-Fi card

One added plus of this case is that the 2 80mm fans in the back are extremely quiet.

The system above works ok, though if I had to do it again I'd reduce the size of the RAID 5 array. It seems to be a lot slower than I expected. Also, I seem to get occasional stuttering of A/V for example when starting to record a TV show.

One thing I've found with HTPCs and MCE is that they would be <b>great</b> for home automation... if only the extra control panels and software existed. Imagine being able to dial up a playlist based on your entire music library from any room in your house, and play it in the room(s) of your choice. You can approach this with MC extenders, but what I found I wanted was a small in-wall control panel. I'm currently looking at the Dynamix 706, a 7" TFT-LCD touchscreen for this, but neither it nor MCE 2005 have quite the set of features I've been looking for. Perhaps some day.

I am considering building my own HTPC and outputing it to a 42" Flat LCD/plasma TV but am worried about all the compatibility issues that will definitely arise between my current cable co. leased Mortrolla DVR. For example how can I access the digital channels to record on th PC, Would I need to go to Direct TV? Is it possible to control and schedule recordings. Is there any way to pull recorded shows off of any type of DVR
Not to mention HDTV If I build a HTPC now will I have to change it all when HD TV becomes more widely avalible

I would be very interested in seeing some of the specs from the fellow members below. A couple of real world builds that have been in use for awhile would be very valuable.

Wonderful !! Thanks for great detail.. Have you built any HTPC recently.. can you post your latest recommandations please ?