Last message on previous page:

Amen Barry!! Apple really sold out on thier iPod. If any company went to bat for us, it was Rio. To bad their gone now.

It's only misleading to one that thinks that playing a single file is gapless playback. Sorry if you don't understand what gapless playback is.

That's not a group of tracks, it's a single track. Once you join 2 or more songs into a single file, it is one track. From the iPod's point of view (that is from the firmware that runs your DAP) it is one song/One track. Your ipod will not suddenly say it's playing Money while playing that song and then say show that "Us and Them" is playing when that song is playing, if you've joined the tracks. It can't, because it's a single file, with a single Tag describing that file).

That's not gapless playback. If you went to ipod lounge, a very Apple friend board, you'd know that what I said is accurate.

It's not my definition skippy.

I said it does not support gapless playback. It does not. You want to say that playing a single file gaplessly is gapless and it's not. I'm sorry if you didn't understand what gapless means, but that doesn't make my statement inaccurate.

If someone demands gapless playback, the iPod is an unacceptable choice. If they don't, then the fact that it doesn't support it is irrelevant.

I was clear, you're just dense and/or obstinate.

Glad to see your response. In your corrections section, you note "For example, you are supposed to be able to backup copyrighted material for personal use to any media you want as many times as you want. Illegality comes in when you use those copies for commercial purposes, like selling bootleg CDs. DRM has made that right moot."

I don't like DRM either and certainly object to infringements on fair use, but it is still not accurate to say that Apple's DRM prevents making backup copies. In fact, Apple encourages it! You can make unlimited backup copies of songs purchased from iTMS to *data* CDs or DVDs. Just go to preferences and choose Data CD, rather than music CD, as your burning format. Of course, you can back up to tape or an another hard drive as well.

I am glad you noted that the seven burn limit for a playlist to a music CD is really no limit at all given the easy workarounds. I was not able to duplicate that "Burn playlist to CD" option gets greyed out on my Mac. Maybe that happens on the Windows version only?

Look who's the pot calling the kettle black.

What part of "a file without gaps" either joined from separate files or or a single file to start with, is not "gapless"?

Quit trying to persuede yourself (and, unfortunately, others that you are correct. You have already substatiated my argument with a link to Apple's knowledge base within YOUR OWN POST!

Fine so it becomes a single track (if that's how you want to state it), didn't it start out as multiple tracks? Would those track, if played back normally, not have had gaps? Did an option in Apple's software not eliminate those tracks? You are obviously a moron if you believe otherwise.

It must be your definition "skippy", you continually fail to post relevant fact to support your claim. All you do is say "go check the boards here, they will agree with me". I think we can all agree that M-W's definition of the word is correct. Saying "but they agree with me", only spreads this gross misinterpretation that you, and others like you, are infesting these boards with.

M_S

p.s. try again if you must "skippy", but this sort of misguided tomfoolery must end.

It's about time someone told the truth about those iPods. They're overrated pieces of garbage. If you compare the iPods' specs to any other digital audio player at the same price you can see it doesn't measure up. It was especially aggravating to read mags like Computer Shopper who acted like it was the best thing since sliced bread even when describing its many shortcomings relative to other digital players.

Congrautaltions. You've been done by THE BEST in the industry !
Feels good - eh ? The name of the game is control my friends. :!:
Can you say, 'anti choice.'

Look who's the pot calling the kettle black.

What part of "a file without gaps" either joined from separate files or or a single file to start with, is not "gapless"?

Quit trying to persuede yourself (and, unfortunately, others that you are correct. You have already substatiated my argument with a link to Apple's knowledge base within YOUR OWN POST!

Fine so it becomes a single track (if that's how you want to state it), didn't it start out as multiple tracks? Would those track, if played back normally, not have had gaps? Did an option in Apple's software not eliminate those tracks? You are obviously a moron if you believe otherwise.

It must be your definition "skippy", you continually fail to post relevant fact to support your claim. All you do is say "go check the boards here, they will agree with me". I think we can all agree that M-W's definition of the word is correct. Saying "but they agree with me", only spreads this gross misinterpretation that you, and others like you, are infesting these boards with.

M_S

p.s. try again if you must "skippy", but this sort of misguided tomfoolery must end.

<yawn>

Look who's the pot calling the kettle black.

What part of "a file without gaps" either joined from separate files or or a single file to start with, is not "gapless"?

Quit trying to persuede yourself (and, unfortunately, others that you are correct. You have already substatiated my argument with a link to Apple's knowledge base within YOUR OWN POST!

Fine so it becomes a single track (if that's how you want to state it), didn't it start out as multiple tracks? Would those track, if played back normally, not have had gaps? Did an option in Apple's software not eliminate those tracks? You are obviously a moron if you believe otherwise.

It must be your definition "skippy", you continually fail to post relevant fact to support your claim. All you do is say "go check the boards here, they will agree with me". I think we can all agree that M-W's definition of the word is correct. Saying "but they agree with me", only spreads this gross misinterpretation that you, and others like you, are infesting these boards with.

M_S

p.s. try again if you must "skippy", but this sort of misguided tomfoolery must end.

<yawn>

A pathetic attempt at a comeback from a disgruntled loser, yet the only intelligent thing you have said.

M_S

It is just dumb to say that AA or AAA batteries, instead of a built-in rechargable battery, is cheaper? How?

They are called RECHARGABLE AA or AAA batteries. I can buy 2600 maH or better rechargable batteries, maybe even 2 or 3 sets of them, and be able to listen to something much longer.

Yes, I won't argue with your statistics, but that is only true if you use disposable AA or AAA batteries, and WHY would anyone do that?

At least the cell phone takes user-replacable batteries, so no... when I buy a cell phone I then promptly go onto ebay, purchase a pair of batteries, the desired faceplate, a car charger, and data cable (if needed), and can usually get it all for less than $30, which is less than the cost of 1 battery in the store. I then keep all batteries charged in a cradle at night and take them with me during the day. When one dies while I am out and about, I pop it out, put in one of the spares, and keep going.

Problem is, with a device like the iPod, that has an internal battery only, you simply can't do that. What a joke; what garbage.

If you want some great prices on NMH batteries... here, 10 2700 mAh for $16.95:

http://www.batterybarn.com/pro99.htm

Great site for dirt-cheap batteries, you just have to forgive them for their shabby looks. Their customer service is great though, so what the heck?

OK!

Gapless means no gaps in between tracks when it's playing. Such functions are used in progressive rock, art rock (well, this falls under progressive), and many other genres. So let's say I have In the Flesh off of CD1 in The Wall from Pink Floyd, my player would just jump right into the song with no loading or cache skips (ie. the player is buffering/loading the song into the cache). With gapless, there would be no skip so that the songs join together, in which this is a rock opera, it's suppose to be like that. The Ipod doesn't not in anyway (sans Rockbox because I'm talking about the Ipod natively and so should many members in this thread). Of course you can join the tracks, which would lead to clutter and to no choice but to manually skip between tracks, which is rather stupid I might add as this would be a big file. I love The Wall, my most preferred song is Track 4. The Happiest Days of Our Lives. Now this song is followed by Track 5 (duh). Another Brick In The Wall (Part II) in which should be a favourite among many. When Track 4 goes to Track 5, it's just magical, producing a feeling of connectivity (this is an opera, should be gapless!). You see, on an Ipod (sans Rockbox), if I want to select The Happiest Days of Our Lives and it's one track, it's going to take too long or just be stupidly redundant (I listen to a lot of Progressive Rock, many albums are gapless). It would just be smarter to select the freaking song already and have gapless. It's not hard either. In some cases, Vorbis does better in gapless than mp3 because to have gapless mp3, a hack must be used which LAME takes care of pretty nicely (oh wait a second, there are LAME errors on some Ipods ).

Now can you see it M_S, joining tracks is just completely stupid. And no, joining tracks isn't gapless at all, it's just one ficken album in one file! The Gapless Feature does not apply to it at all. Gapless is a necessary feature to many, Ipods do not support Gapless! The joining of tracks is not gapless!

Do you now understand? You really have to start listening to some Concept Albums, you'll understand then.

Oh, btw, I want to see those references.

*
If I want to select a certain song so that it would fade into the other song creating the same effect it was suppose to create, then I would want to select a single song and have gapless. Just a small summary for some.
*

Re-read and again state your contention with fact, not inane drivel and meaningless opinion.

M_S

Opinion! What sort of opinion?

Look here, I want to select Track 4! I want it to go straight to Track 5! Without gapless, there would be a subtle but annoying skip. It is annoying when dealing with a masterpiece. Joining tracks just makes for bloat. BLOAT! A portable device must not suffer from 200 MB files, the buffer would just be too small. Now is that an opinion?

You didn't read the previous posts, did you? No, I didn't think so.

Another one out to confuse the world with FUD and opinion rather than fact.

M_S

Well, being of experience in this area, I know that I am right.

I know that there would be no gaps in the process of joining files, but it's not gapless playback. It's just one fickin track as I said before.

Gapless playback is with separated tracks!

GET IT? If you do not believe me, debate it.

All you are saying is that I am this and I am that, I did read some of the previous posts. Why don't you debate my post for errors?

reading the rest of you're post I've come to the conclusion that you're a rio karma fanboy.
Again I must reiterate I am no fan of the ipod. I've played around with a couple of rio's in the past and was never that happy with the interfaces, but things might have changed with the karma I don't know. REGARDLESS, you need to chill. If you read my post thoroughly you would have realized that my coments were not singing the praises of any particular player.

The Karma might be the player for me, but I seemed to recall when I was first looking at it that several people talked about the player crashing occasionally during playback. Now before you scream bloody murder, I'm sure firmware has already fixed it if it was ever an issue.

As for gapless playback, it was never a real deal breaker, any album that was serverly hurt by the gap, I can rip as a single track. I know that illiminates the option of listening to a single track... BUT for me it is rare that I will want to listen to a single track of those albums because I want to listen to the whole thing. In fact when those single tracks come up in my winamp shuffle I get a little annoyed because I want to hear the whole album.

Now enqueue, next time you run winamp on shuffle press j a window will pop open with your current playlist select a song and push shift+enter. What will happen is the next song to play will be the one you selected, after that it will continue shuffling. it is a great feature for when a song reminds you of another song you want to hear.

Lastly I've learned to be tolerant of peoples buying decisions, Because in the end it really comes down to how you use the device. Some make it or break it features for you might be trivial to most. I'm not totally satisfied with the ipod, but if and when it dies I won't be getting a karma, I'll be getting an cowon Iaudio x5. It supports the formats I use, it has a decent interface, usb-to-go, a nice little remote, and a bunch of other little things that just make it appealing to me. Will it be the best player in the world maybe for me, but I know many people will find it confusing. Just like people found the interface for my previous player the iriver slimx cd-mp3 though I don't think anyone made a better mp3-cd player ever including rio. So take my advice chill, and before responding think about whether I'm truly arguing with you.