Tom's Guide > Forum > Homebuilt Systems > New System Build > Less is more, to me

Less is more, to me

Forum Homebuilt Systems : New System Build - Less is more, to me

TomsGuide.com: Over 800,000 questions and answers to address all your high-tech questions. Sign up now! Its free!

Related content
News

See all topics related to "tomshardware"

Ok, first post because I'm desperate for opinions from folks who live and breathe this stuff a little more than I. The back story, a friend and I wanted to build PC's for low-end-mid-range gaming and for resonable cost. For example, we're pretty found of Combat Arms right now, which is not graphically demanding whatsoever. My friend however has better financial resources and has already built his system. A typical Antec 900, HD4850 (just one, for now), Asus P5Q Pro Mobo, Intel E8500, and a raptor of some sort, it's on the small side but it's just for his OS. He hasn't overclocked yet.
More of the backstory - Since we agreed to both build machines, I've been slowly wanting to emulate the company Lotus and their underlying moto that less is more. So, I've spent hours reading reviews and compiling different parts together and I have two builds here, one intel, and one AMD. I'm looking to use brain-power, strategy, and smart spending to build a machine that's equally fast in EVERYDAY situations versus just benchmarking. I could care less about benches.

I'd love to hear from you guys, I'd like to start throwing parts together this week. If it helps, what I'll be doing exactly is a lot of web-browsing, somewhat heavy photo-editing (like, the professional line of work, not just birthday pictures) and very moderate gaming. I'm not a quality warhead, as long as the game runs. Performance in game means way more to me than just having everything rendered so beautifully. Also, I'm looking for a small build. Essentially, small, cheapish and packs a lot of punch for what it's worth and machines that are slightly more costly.

Thanks everyone!

Intel Build:

Seagate 7200 HD, size isn't really of concern right now. I'll probably settle at 500GB, just for all media and OS.
A WD raptor 10,000 HD off of ebay, on the small side just for IMG backups and pagefile.
G.Skill 4GB DDR2 1066
Intel E7200
This APEVIA case (PSU included): http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811144230
Mobo - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813157130

AMD build:

HDD setups will be identical, as well as RAM and case.
AMD Phenom 9850
Mobo - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813186141

I'm confident both onboard video chips will be more than adequate for the games I'll be playing, and offer the ability to upgrade to an HD4850, or higher.

Input appreciated.

Add a reply

no OBG on the intel

Reply to Groo

budget?

Reply to calinkula

Btw, don't bother getting a WD raptor. The new hdd's are relatively fast and the performance increase you get from it isn't worth the money (less is more, anyways).

If you have a budget, it'll be easier to work with.

Message edited by johnyeah on 09-21-2008 at 06:54:58 AM

------------------------------ "If you don't plan on listening, why ask?"
Reply to johnyeah

Alright, the post was a little sloppy, so. Price point wise I'll just chose intel, otherwise I'm not saving all that much going with AMD.

So, this is what I'm aiming at:

Budget is 700-$800, that's roughly sub-mid-level but I want it to preform at its very best for its price.

O.S HD - Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 ST380815AS 80GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822148231

Cache/data HD - Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822136073

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231122

XFX MG63Mi7159 LGA 775 NVIDIA GeForce 7150 / nForce 630i HDMI Micro ATX Intel Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813141013

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115017

APEVIA Black SECC Steel / Aluminum X-MASTER-BK/500 ATX Media Center / HTPC Case (PSU included 500W)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811144231

Acer V223Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6824009138

Best bang/buck ratios I could find.

Total cost w/ shipping: $757.35

Message edited by Fwertz on 09-21-2008 at 08:29:20 AM

Reply to Fwertz

Do you really need another hdd for the O.S.? I'd just split off the partitions, that'll save you $45 dollars (not that big of a difference in performance, neglegible). I'd also get the http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] %207200.11 hdd instead.

HTPC case? If you're seriously considering adding things in the computer in the future (i.e. a dedicated video card) I would recommend that you get something else instead.

In addtion, that onboard video won't suffice for your monitor if you intend to play any new games out there (COD4, TF2, WoW, Warhammer, etc).

------------------------------ "If you don't plan on listening, why ask?"
Reply to johnyeah

I'm not seriously thinking about playing any demanding games. The only game I plan to play that's new in the near future would probably be Diablo III, which will not be demanding at all. I'll be more geared on professional photo-editing. Thanks for the tip on the HD though!

I swapped out both my HD selections for Johnyeah's suggestion the:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822148288
And added:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827135156

Current price now w/ shipping is: $751.06

Reply to Fwertz

Actually, D3 will require a lot more than your onboard video card.

"
What engine is Diablo III running on? What graphical enhancements are included?

Diablo III runs on a custom 3D game engine for rendering full-3D characters and environments. The 3D game engine not only simulates advanced animation sequences and sound effects, but also uses a custom physics engine that allows for realistic object dynamics and cloth simulation.

top
""
What are the system requirements for Diablo III?

We'll announce specific system requirements at a later date.
"

I'd assume it's actually going to be a tab-bit demanding.

------------------------------ "If you don't plan on listening, why ask?"
Reply to johnyeah

Anyhow, I understand that you want a small form factor case. However, SFF are a hassle to deal with when you actually want to change stuff or replace stuff inside.

------------------------------ "If you don't plan on listening, why ask?"
Reply to johnyeah

the case looks fine. it looks a little tough to assemble, but thats not a huge deal. test it all outside the case first. using a microATX board in a full AXT will make things easier. changing cards and the like look pretty easy in that case

I think g45 based motherboard will have better graphics than 7150.

AMS's built in graphics, 790gx, are better yet, but the phenom isn't the best CPU around.

I bet no matter what you do, you'll add a graphics card in no time. just get one now. I tried running with just OBG when I put together my current machine. (I orriginaly decided a cheap graphics card but it was DOA, so I said screw it) it wouldn't play the games I wanted to play, so I ended up getting one PDQ

Reply to Groo

To fit within budget, I'll keep the original mobo and shop around for an older card that can run typical games.
I'm not going to be playing crysis anyone. A question though. Is there a substantial difference in PCI x16 2.0 and just x16?

Edit: Found this card, sure it's older, but how will it handle D3?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814121094

With adding that, and dropping the DVD-RW (I can deal with using a PATA DVD-rom for now) the ttoal comes to $788.05 with shipping.

Double edit: Found this one instead for not much more and should fit me perfectly.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814130085

Total now is: $791.06 w/ shipping.

Message edited by Fwertz on 09-21-2008 at 07:54:00 PM

Reply to Fwertz

Well right now, no one can give you any definite answers on how your machine will handle d3, because specs simply aren't out yet.

However, I can tell you right now 8600GT isn't going to cut it.

------------------------------ "If you don't plan on listening, why ask?"
Reply to johnyeah

If you want to overclock your CPU and get a separate video card, then
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813128078
would be my choice for the motherboard.

If you want to make the best of your budget through MIR, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227280
would be a better choice for RAM.

Message edited by johnyeah on 09-21-2008 at 08:55:37 PM

------------------------------ "If you don't plan on listening, why ask?"
Reply to johnyeah

Honestly though, if you don't plan on getting a separate video card yet, then I'd go with the 780G by ATI (it's the best onboard graphics card available).

------------------------------ "If you don't plan on listening, why ask?"
Reply to johnyeah

Alright, if I switch over to AMD's 2.5 Quad, and this mobo: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813186141
I'll be able to work with an Nvidia 9600 GT or an HD 3850 and still be able to achieve The approx. value of ~$780.00

Yeah it's AMD, but I don't plan on overclocking. I'm just after great performance on all types of computing, SFF, and cheap.

Reply to Fwertz

If that's the case try the combo of 9950 and ECS A780GM-A. It's cheaper and better, since you're not planning on overclocking.

------------------------------ "If you don't plan on listening, why ask?"
Reply to johnyeah

Alrighty! I think I've found my build.

Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 ST3500320AS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822148288

Acer V223Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6824009138

Foxconn A7GM-S AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813186141

PNY VCG88512GXEB-FLB GeForce 8800 GT 512MB 256-bit GDDR3

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814133232

G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231122

AMD Phenom 9850 BLACK EDITION 2.5GHz Socket AM2+ 125W Quad-Core

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819103249

APEVIA Black / Silver SECC Steel / Aluminum X-MASTER-AL/500 ATX Media Center / HTPC Case

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811144230

Total is $798.07 with shipping which is snugg against budget maximum. I'm pretty content with this. I know a lot of you probably can't imagine undershooting this much, but I've never been spoiled by insane hardware before and I feel this build will provide maximum performance FWIW.

Thoughts?

Message edited by Fwertz on 09-21-2008 at 10:35:47 PM

Reply to Fwertz

If you're buying from newegg, there's a combo deal with 9950 and 780G like I've mentioned that's cheaper than 9850 + Foxconn A7GM-S (this is $236), Or you can get 9950 + the Seagate HDD which is also cheaper. Check out the combo deals before final decisions. You can save anywhere from $20-40.

------------------------------ "If you don't plan on listening, why ask?"
Reply to johnyeah

Okay here a few concerns that I have.
1) Apevia doesn't make good PSU's, in general, so I wouldn't put all that $ into your build with that PSU. Corsair vx 450w PSU would be MUCH better than the 500w PSU that Apevia makes. If I do my math right you'll have about 27amps on the combined 12v rails on the Apevia PSU.
Quote from here at the bottom of the page.
Manufacturer Response:Correction!

Your math is fine, but unfortunately calculating the amperage is not so straightforward. The combined wattage supplied by the +12, +5, and +3.3V rails is 480W, with the +5 and +3.3V rails supplying 160 of the 480 watts. 480W-160W leaves 320W. Now divide the remaining wattage amongst the +12V rails and you get 26.66A. (320W / 12V = 26.6666A) support@apevia.com
The Corsair 450vx supports 33A on the 12v rail. Or you could even get the Antec 500w Earthwatts PSU that supports 34A on the 12v rails.
Antec earthwatts EA500 500W ATX12V v2.0 SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail, $50 shipped!
CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V V2.2 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Power Supply - Retail
$71 - $15 MIR = $56 @ Buy.com

2) Personally I'd just get a stand up case w/the 500w Antec PSU listed above AND a free DVD burner!!! for $152 - 50 MIR = $102!!!
First combo on the page.

3) You could get a better combo deal if you went with the 9850 & a 790gx mobo listed below:
4th one down on the combo list!

4) Another good combo to buy, since your going with an Phenom processor (which likes 1066mHz DDR2 better than 800mHz DDR2).
9600gso (can OC close to 9800gt speeds) and 4 gb's of DDR2 1066mHz DDR2. $203 - $80 MIR's = $123!!! Now that will be very hard to beat!!
5th combo down from the top!

5) Add in decent 22" monitor for $190 shipped!!
Acer X223Wbd Black 22" 5ms Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 2500:1 - Retail

6) Decent and fast HD for $85 shipped!
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM

Total = $874 - $130 MIR's = $744!!! Now that is a nice rig for basic gaming for under $800!!! You can decide what you like, but this is a very nice rig for under the $800 range.

Message edited by lunyone on 09-21-2008 at 11:50:46 PM

------------------------------ PSU Tiers
GPU Power
8800gtx w/e6600 OC'd will run on Antec 380w w/27A on 12v rail, PSU!!
Reply to lunyone

If you're buying a seperate graphics card, I'd do the standard C2Q on a P45.

If you want AMD, the 790gx has a better southbridge than the 780g. it also has higher clocked OBG graphics chip.

Reply to Groo

Ok refined again. Maybe this time.

Here's a refresher.

Not looking at just gaming, very moderate gaming. I'm too busy between work and college to game intensively. So, nothing against gamers. For that I feel the cheaper 8800 GT will suffice for quite some time for me. I was uneasy about the Apevia PSU as well. So, I give up on the SFF. There are no other cases on Newegg that really apeal to my tastes and I'll just have to settle for a mid to fit within budget. Antec 300 it is. I'm also going with a 500W antec PSU (listed below) as well. I'll cut down the Quad core (I can't fit a C2Q AND a decent video card into a $800 budget) into a Dual core, but back to intel, their lower clocked one and pair it with a cheaper ASRock P45 board, so if I'm not satisfied I'll have some overclockability to keep up with more expensive hardware. All other components are the same. I'd go with the cheaper monitor deal, but that one ends TODAY 9/21 and I'm not purchasing right this moment.

Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811129042

HD
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822148288

Monitor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6824009138

Graphics
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814133232

PSU
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817371007

RAM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231122

Mobo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813157135

Processor
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115052

Total w/ shipping is $801.29

Reply to Fwertz

Since you're not purchasing right this moment, I'd say check the combo deals again when you're about to purchase.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814122046 is about the same price as the PNY 8800GT but comes with a $20 Rebate and is factory overclocked for slightly better performance.

------------------------------ "If you don't plan on listening, why ask?"
Reply to johnyeah

I would check the combo's before you buy anything. The Phenom x4 w/the 9600gso is the cheapest combo your going to find. If your not into gaming that much the 9600gso is a screamer of a deal at $50 after MIR, but since you like the 9800gt than you still have options. Just double check the combo deals when you buy. You just missed an Antec Sonata III case w/500w PSU and the AMD x2 5400+ Black edition for $102 after $52 MIR!!! That was a deal hard to pass up. You got Case/PSU/CPU for $102!!!

Buy.com has very good prices on PSU's and Cases too, so don't count them out when your buying. Newegg does usually have good deals, but Buy.com 70% of the time beats newegg's prices on cases/PSU's.
Here's an example on the Antec 300 for $50 shipped, newegg's is $60 shipped.
Cooler Master 690 case $77.24 shipped, newegg's is $99 w/shipping ($80 + $19 shipping).
So don't assume that newegg has the best price. Yes they have a good reputation, but not always the best pricing.

Message edited by lunyone on 09-22-2008 at 04:24:21 AM

------------------------------ PSU Tiers
GPU Power
8800gtx w/e6600 OC'd will run on Antec 380w w/27A on 12v rail, PSU!!
Reply to lunyone

Ask the community Add a reply

Tom's Guide > Forum > Homebuilt Systems > New System Build > Less is more, to me

Go to:

Help |
Forum rules

There are 9 identified and unidentified users. To see the list of identified users, Click here.

Page generated in 0.273 seconds

Please mind

You are about to answer a thread that has been inactive for more than 6 months.
If you still wish to proceed, please ensure that your posting is original and does not duplicate or overlap any prior responses to this thread.

Add a reply Cancel

Google ads