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Nottheking: Core 2 has a fairly short pipeline (especially compared to P4), and doesn't have HyperThreading.

Thats true. They and IBM are the only two that could attempt this. Not for IBM in production scale of course. But from the reactions Ive gotten, this is mainly a server type solution/gpgpu rather than a gaming solution. Thats why I find it hard to see the devs venturing into this, unless its another C2D thrilla

Do you really believe Intel will enforce some fine print risking to become a real monopolist?

The Alaskan oil Pipeline is an example of a shorter Pipeline than NetBust. (especially Prescott)

Though I apparently have to take that back on HT... I thought they still had it enabled. But then that leaves me wondering... How'd they come up with some 8 DP FP ops per clock cycle, then?

@cjl Core2 has a fairly short pipeline but still longer than Pentium MMX.
And Core2 has hyperthreading under the hood. It *fills the gaps* when working with SSE

Yes.

This is the same Intel that was recently accused by the EU of paying OEM's to intentionally delay the launch of systems containing AMD products.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7512950.stm

There has been much debate about the legality of Intels rebate program, but I don't think that anyone can dispute that paying an OEM to delay the release of AMD's products is definitely illegal. If Intel is willing to blatantly flaunt the law like that why should we believe they will worry about becoming a monopoly? They certainly haven't shown much concern over the potential consequences of their actions thus far if this article is true.

Interesting...

@nottheking: Yeah, that Prescott pipeline was a touch long, wasn't it?

It's more likely that AMD will produce enough chips in their own fabs to meet the x86 license to avoid a civil suit and to outsource the rest of them. They could go fabless for the low end and mainstream and produce high end CPU's, or maybe the moneymaking Swift notebook CPU's, in their own fab.

It wasn't illegal for Intel to offer rebates to OEM's who bought their products in bulk, but incorporating restrictions on AMD CPU use by OEM's in order to qualify for rebates was clearly anticompetitive.

Intel, like Microsoft before them, must have felt they had enough cash to challenge any regulatory action, to afford any penalties and to derail any civil actions from AMD. To a certain extent this is true.

Intel has to keep AMD around to avoid a monopoly. They just don't have to keep AMD thriving as a serious competitor as in the Athlon X2 days. That's why I hope AMD makes a comeback in the market once ATI's purchase costs are no longer an issue.

I don't expect AMD to match Intel in the enthusiast end with single CPU systems, but I'd like to see the logic behind the 4870x2 (i.e. midrange GPU's doubled on one PCB) move over to AMD's CPU division where a reasonably priced, well engineered and affordable dual quad platform arises in the near term.

If thermals are kept in check, they could match the performance of a $1000 Intel Nehalem with a $500 dual CPU system (presupposing $200 for each quad and a hundred for the mobo). Until their next architecture, they need to innovate and to get the software developers up to speed in supporting as many cores as either company can put in a desktop.

In the long term, I'd like to see x86 die out, with Intel's dominance ending. Something like the Cell, that everyone gets behind, should be the next architecture for personal computing. Not the Cell itself, as that would put Sony in Intel's position, but something that goes beyond a technology rooted in 1982 architecture that really pushes computing to the next level.

The difference between a fine, which a company can actually work with, and being broken up into various companies is quite substantial - even for intel.

Maybe their gfx division would be broken away, and nVidia would swoop in and buy it up heheh

This operates under the assumption that given their current level of hurting, that they'd have the spare cash on hand, or at least some cash and a valuable enough stock, that they could afford to purchase a division that large.

I guess that depends on when it would happen, with Intel making all their sellers boycot nVidia products, and how much it hurts nVidia heheh.

The 280GTX is now at 459$!

ouch, that one hell of a price drop. anyone would think ati were releasing a new card soon or something.

It would be so hilarious if AMD decided to delay the 4870X2 for another month or so, just as an arbitrary decision to slap up nVidia some more... Their sales still wouldn't pick up, since "the 4870X2 is just over the horizon!" but they would still be taking the dent to their profits. I would seriously laugh so hard that I'd fall out of my chair.

Delaying the X2 doesn't make much sense though. You know that nV is doing everything they can do to get a 55nm refresh out of TSMC, so waiting would simply put the X2 at a worse off position, while if they launch as soon as the hardware and drivers are ready, they can get alot of sale that would otherwise be GTX sales. nVidia has a fair amount of cash on hand despite their acquisitions and their 200 million dolar G84/86 write-down. I would think it foolish of AMD to wait while nVidia scrambles to get their reply to market ASAP.

ATi is still the trailing company, and until they get the X2 on the market they are still #2 in performance. Their value is definitely high and their return to market influence is improving, but they need profitiable sales, not just good reviews, and IMO they need to sell as much as they can while they have this advantage, for it may not last long (not that they'd fall, just that their advantage would lessen). After Friday's results and announcements, AMD needs big sales more than just grande gestures. That balance sheet/report needs less (brackets).

The best way for AMD to slap nVidia would be to bring the X2 out for a few bucks more than the GTX280, and still outsell it or have more interest in it, that would be more of a statement than delaying a launch.

Incredibly, despite all the 4870 hype, if you look at the recent stats on Steam and on Vantage, it looks like the major sales are still going to Nvidia - GTX cards are dominating in sheer numbers. They were released first though.

It would never happen. AFAIK, intel has about 70% of the integrated graphics market and overall, 60% of graphics market. SEC won't allow nVidia to buy it.
Maybe VIA...

Matrox FTW!!!!!!! OK, had to do it, this ones for you Ape heheh