Want a Penryn processor crack open an apple! - Page 7

data execution prevention can be disabled, but i wish it were easier to do so. after i did that my Vista experience has been great..

i don't think the point can be made that Macs have greater technical power because that's not what they're designed for. Apple knows that most computer users don't really care about how their computer would score in 3dmark or how fast it can calculate pi to a million digits. Most computer users want something simple and easy to use in a nice form factor that won't take over their entire desk. Apple caters to these people the best, but puts a price on style

for my computer, I prefer the fastest possible for the money and if I want style a Lian-Li case is good enough for me. The most important thing to me is that I can upgrade it when I need to / want to and I find a lot of enjoyment in that.

I will probably never buy a Mac, but I can see that some people's preferences are different than mine...

I have never said that macs are more powerfull, all I am saying for a long time Macs are designers tools, always have and in many cases always will until theyre not made anymore then we will have no choice..

My computer of choice is a pc, but if for the right reasons i would change machine if it suited my requirements...

Im not knocking the pc or mac or banging on how good the mac or pc is...

What costs more money u make more of a margin on - fact and if there is less of them then mac engineers are harder to find.. am I correct so the price goes up...

I am not a mac lover as i said before designers prefer them, I'm not a designer I'm a qualified engineer.....I prefer pc

No I am saying its been stress free for me, if you are unable to adapt to the new interface that has nothing to do with me or MS. Its YOU; YOU are unable to deal with the changes, YOU are unable to read the tec documents, forums, help files to work around these apparent issues that YOU are unable to deal with it. So YOU dont have to like Vista YOU dont have to like anything that MS makes and thats fine, but stop babbleing about your issues as facts.

Word, Playa.

aww and here i was thinking this was going to be like the ps3 vs pc thread which ran for over a year.

Yeah, where is that thread... should we?

Grow up.
Learn how to discuss and then come back and try discussing again.
When you can, I will explain my reasoning. Until then, don't bother!


MODS, lock please!

"Can I say macs are better because you get an education discount ($100 apple, $400 school) and a free ipod nano ($200). Come on!
(Our schools only use macs and give us discount when we buy one via them)

Then there's the free printer offer ($100) "

What do you get exactly and what do you pay exactly and where from exactly? I still think the pc equivilant will be cheaper all things considered.

Mac has had the "school" sucker punch trick forever. When they initially emerged as a desktop they would do very low prices for schools because they knew the younger new generation would be inquisitive enough about them to learn something. It never caught on with business because mac's were simply to lame for large network's and bulk server applications. Then IBM (original PC) started 24 hour support and basically killed off the business market for Steve Jobs.
So they stuck with the same lame ass marketing strategy. Get it into schools. Make people believe they will be creative and "different". Does anyone realise it's the software that allows you to be creative, not the hardware? Mac hardware, like pc hardware simply runs photoshop illustrator etc. That's the creativity arguement killed off.

They do discounts for high schools, multimedia schools, colleges etc. They have to. Think about it if you took thier "pretend" creative markey away, what would they have? Not games, not business servers, not renderers, not anything else that comes to mind right now.

Don't you think it's disgusting a brand has to "dupe" school kids onto a familiar platform in the hope that they'll buy one as an adult. I actually did a bit of multimedia years ago, we had to use G4's. I remember doing a 3D scene and incorporating that into director. It played back and worked fine on my budget home pc which was a P3 at the time. I took it to school and the stupid G4 would play it back like it was about to die, hanging on every tenth frame or so then deciding it might work. Nothing ran better on it. Not photoshop, not illustrator, not flash, not director. If no one gives me one real reason to buy a mac by the end of page 11 of this thread I will not be replying and would be urging mac zealots to consider the same question I have been asking all along...."Why buy a mac?"

Rebates oh no so it’s bad for Intel to do it but its great for Apple to do it complete udder crap.

Again they all do the same thing they take input, exec, and display the results. Only difference is PC's do it for cheaper.

IE7 was out before Vista your argument falls on internet browsers not operating systems. Then don't user Windows Defender go buy Norton and make your machine useless no one cares your choice don't use the free app from MS oh wait you can buy it now for less than Norton and they do pretty well the same thing less Norton writes its own virus's to create market demand, damn that evil MS and not trying to bring their OS's down.

That’s their business model ask them why they change their GUI and API's while you at it.

Oh no spell check if that’s your point you better come back with some more since alt c, start MS word 2003, alt v, several right clicks, alt c, alt v and your done. Or use hotmail it does it automatically now or use Google as it checks your spelling as well.

Then you as an engineer needs to get off his ass and get with the program that ran for nearly 2 years before Vista went live MS gave the entire industry ample time to prepare for the OS change if you can't keep up with the evil slow sloppy inferior lazy incompetent MS development team what’s that say about you?

No one is asking you to change from XP and frankly I think it would be better for Vista in general if you didn’t use it, much too different for you and your limited comprehensive and reading skills to learn the "new" features, which are just another GUI layer as it has all the functionality and options that XP had you just have to start, help support, Vista basics.

Word, Playa.

Hey what kind of a person would copy and paste like that?

Yeah that was what I was trying to say because Vertigon is waiting for someone to show him that Macs are more powerful than PC's. Macs aren't more powerful and that's why I don't prefer them, but for some people it's not about power.

It's like cars. I prefer high quality asian brand cars like Hondas and Toyotas because they last stinkin' forever and I don't have to fix them. Many people prefer american cars because they are faster and cheaper. I'm no good at fixing cars, so even a simple repair would be a big problem for me. I also don't care if the car can go 120mph because I never go over 70. So I am willing to pay the price premium for no/few hassles even though the car is less powerful.

The asian cars are kind of like macs - more expensive and less powerful but reliable.
American cars are kind of like windows pc's - cheaper and more powerful but they are less reliable.

"The asian cars are kind of like macs - more expensive and less powerful but reliable."

I appreciate what your trying to say Chris. My friend bought a mac about 18 months ago, there top of the range one (yes I have a friend who has a mac). He resented having to buy it but he teaches film studies and needed the compatabilty with his school ( yes they got bribed into the mac platform)

In 18 months he has had 2 power supply failures and dead pixels on the monitor. He is now using his 3rd monitor and everytime he goes in for a warranty claim they resent him for it.

I have an old P3 which is still going after 7 years and has never had a hardware issue or malfunction. I hope my newer machine has an equally good run. I run CAD and a 3ds all day, my machine hasn't been turned off since Tuesday this week and yet no problems.

If only macs were better quality even if slower. At least there would be one good thing to say. I would never ever advise anyone to buy a mac but I am not going to ruin the computing experience for those that did anyway. One thing about these forums is that people get way too carried away with hardware and for some they don't even have the application to make the most of the power they keep striving for. My point? Use whatever you have for good, enjoy it and become a better person for it.

After your tirade of **** earlier, I don't believe that statement for a second!

Look I just have to deal with the fact that despite the fiesty debate, I never got a real reason. Why do people buy macs? Why do they buy Christion Dior, or love the colour pink? Why aren't cars all the same, or shoes? People buy what they want, despite praticality and logic sometimes and that's that.

Smile, big group hug and let's move on. Please!!

The same reasons people like Nintendo Wii over XBox 360..

The same as some people like General Motors over Ford..

The way some peole like Pepsi over Coca Cola

The same way people like Molborough over another brand of cigarette

Because people have choice, preference and they can do what they like for what ever reason they have as long as it doesn't break the law..

But the reason is if you listen is that Apple Macs are for designers with nothing else to think about apart from designing..

PC's are generally more complicated and it takes more to get out of it even if its a universal standard..But there are more applications on pcs than any other platform. Fact, the games are better on pc too than any console... Pcs generally have new gadgets first.. PC had webcams first, the rest followed. Wireless keyboards, mouse etc etc etc..

Nowadays the difference in hardware from mac to pc is minimal.

They cost more down to the way its been marketted where pcs are not marketted because they sell anyway.

If you made a green orange you would charge twice the price of a orange orange.. Would you not its called marketting...


The design program tools are better in macs with the game, film, photographic, music and any other type of publishing industry and because this is so then the print industry is also linked to these type of people.

Mac people turn on the mac by the keyboard and click on icons and drag and drop in to waste paper basket..

PCs are turned on 9 times out of 10 by a button because mac users are lazy on this front (also turning pcs on this way is a bit dated and dont we think that pcs should have this function well and truely in by now as a standard as apposed to configuring it using CTRL + F1 etc) but there are other ways of doing the same thing such as clicking on the file and pressing delete, right mouse button then select delete, control and delete then drag and dropping it in the the recycle bin etc etc..

This is why people choose macs, nothing to do with speed but the sheer chic'ness of it all.
Its not to do with power, macs do look better no matter what you say but then again a Wii looks better than a 360.

Mac people want less to worry about instead of stupid rants that went on before.

2 things ,

your are a frustrating turd that never seems to go away...
and you proberly wouldnt believe the 1st because your so F*&^%!$G Ignorant..

Turpit, Jake Barnes or anyone please just lock this thread...

Cheers

Not knowing is one thing, ignorance is something else.

You know what, I think I have finally got into the physchi of the mac user. In thier hearts they want to say: "I want to use a computer for my special things (eg. music, image making etc) and I don't want to have hassles setting it up or with hardware crap, I want to buy it, turn it on and play, that's it". This in their minds and to some extent is what apple promises them and if they lose out some power and gagets and games, hey so what, they have a trendy box near or on their desk and that makes them feel warm and fuzzy.

Obviously nothing as you are still making pointless posts!

Actually. I've been enjoying the discussion, pity that it has gotten personal once or twice, but I have been getting tired of seeing comments that, on the face of it, add no value.

UD.

p.s. not bored enough - irritated enough.

Vertigon, just leave it, you're obviously incapable of understanding simple English.
The fact that you're working is an utter shock to me as you have the mentality of a distressed teenager. You don't listen, because you know best. It's pathetic.
You obviously completely understand Apple's marketing, target audience etc.

One thing I did find funny though, you said PCs have better hardware than Macs.... err hang on a moment there chump! What is inside a modern Mac? Oh yeah, an Intel chipset mobo, an Intel CPU, an ATi or Nvidia graphics card or Intel integrated grpahics chipset....
Grow up, don't be so pathetic and be more understanding of people. You don't know better, people have an opinion which no matter how much **** you spout at how Macs are unfortunate and wrong, makes utterly no difference.
I've had enough of you (not this subject) and I don't want to hear anymore.

Thanks!

Hmm personal attacks, isn’t that the mantra of Apple's attack ads? Seems to me you are exactly what Apple wants from their support base, mindless drone that doesn’t use facts but "emotion" "opinion" and "stereotypes".

Side note Mac as fun as it is, in no way is a superior product to its Wintel equivalent period. Why do I say this? Well because I do know, because I make it my business to know what’s good and what’s sub par. With the facts of next to nil software porting shows the zillion billion gazillion developers, programmers, designers don’t see anything in the Apple platform. Special interest groups might but there is always a closed door agreement with kick backs

Word, Playa.

"Vertigon, just leave it, you're obviously incapable of understanding simple English.
The fact that you're working is an utter shock to me as you have the mentality of a distressed teenager. You don't listen, because you know best. It's pathetic."

Lukebird you have posted similar throughout the previous pages but haven't in fact put forward solid worthwhile technical reasons as to why anyone should buy a mac. People have put forward some reasons, most of them not really significant.
My aim was simply understand why people buy macs, I couldn't find a technical one so I had to derive a psychological one with my limited psychological knowledge.
I discovered a number of reasons, whatever those reasons are it still gets people involved in computing, some of those people may have in fact given up completely if given a performance PC.
My new computer is an example.I am running a 4GB corsair DHX kit in a cosmos case with a gigabyte x48t-dq6 mainboard with a qx9650 cpu and a fx3700 card. Serious hardware considered by most people. Its running Vista 64 business. Most things have gone well, some things needed a work around, the modem needed the usb cable swapped to an ethernet. Nothing too big and no problems for someone computer savvy. But for a typical mac user: "WTF THE WORLD HAS COME TO AN END I WANT TO SHOOT THIS COMPUTER I'M GOING TO EXPLODE DAMM IT!!!!"
So if these sorts of people need every last detail worked out for them, get a pretend identity and a trendy box with a power lead for their thousands, so be it!
I mean what's their other choice? No computing at all? Isn't it strange how mac users are generally the type that were no good at maths or science? Ah there's a revelation. People say science isn't beautifull, it is. It makes so many of the devices, the transport and architecture we all need and enjoy.I love you science.

vertigon, i think what people are trying to say is:

there is more to a computer than processor clock speed, ram amount, and video card shaders. if you need a computer to write papers on and surf the internet, why do you need an uber fast gaming machine?

I think it's already been demonstrated that building your own is not practical cost-wise for a minimum functionality computer, so in that case I would not rule out a Mac. Now since I like for all my computers to be able to communicate with each other easily, I would still go with a Windows box, but I would totally recommend a mac to someone with different needs..

No it isn't, that is your opinion.
I could care less what you think about my spending habits. I bought one, because I wanted one. I bought my Windows PC because I wanted it.

One the I have to say about your last post Lukebird is that you didn't lie about the technological aspects of a mac. You said you wanted something that was simple to use with minimal hassles, fair enough and that's great.

I simply get irrated when people make statements like:
"I know someone at EA UK who designed the graphics on Hogwarts on a Apple Mac.. He swears by them, and he came from a pc background... " but never really provide any technical reason. In fact mac's CANNOT beat a pc at anything especially not 3D. I mean what is going to beat D5400XS board with 2 qx9770's plugged into it? Thats just at the desktop level.

Macs can never match the sophistication of large scale render servers so no point in buying mac's for rendering either. Sure you can design your grandmother a birthday card with one, but that's not high end computing is it?

I mean if you want to own an ipod shuffle on steroids fine, don't pretend it's all conquering plopps, it's irritating and a lie.

You go on to say AGAIN!!!:
" Just that macs are more envolved with the design arena and hence the tools are better.."

I keep asking how, I mean what tools excactly are you talking about that make mac's so much better for designing??

This time plopps I don't want to hear about pretend friends or emotional arguements or you simply justifying the money you wasted. Just tell me what these damm magic tools are!!

OEM is OEM Mac or HP it doesn’t matter, I could care less what you spend your money on, but look where you are this isn’t an OEM love fest forum this is an enthusiast hardware site. Just because you’re enthusiastic about Mac doesn’t mean 99.9% of the other readers are remotely interested in OEM systems. It's like buying a Dell if you want to just buy something without doing any sort of research its diffidently something you should be looking at but like I said 99.9% of the users here are interested in custom built low entry cost upgradeability which OEM's do not offer period.

Lukebird I hear you about the keyboard and desktop. I use a razer lycosa keyboard, I can design in complete darkness with it because all the keys light up, or the WASD for gamers. The keys are also programable and have a lovely sticky feel to them. I also use a 7 button razer copperhead mouse, only using about 4 of them regularly because I mainly use the spacepilot to navigate with. This system works for me.

As for 16 desktops etc I don't know how exactly you use them with a handfull of programs but once again vista aero "switch between windows" button works for me fine with up to 8 applications running. I also use the desktop to navigate with and have all my applications shortcuts on there. The gadgets sidebar in vista is also a nice touch always allowing me to find people, links etc with a single click.

Anyhow, thanks for a more pleasant than usual exchange, nice to know some mac people aren't angry 24/7.