Want a Penryn processor crack open an apple! - Page 6

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Or, as you said, Macs are limited

Oh great, another tirade of useful information...
Oh and to the bit I made in bold, does that mean a Core 2 in a Mac is slower than one in a PC....??

Nice work there!

Lukebird your so typical and predictable. Your drowing in regret and your trying to make some sort of Rocky Balboa stand for the downtrodden. So tell us Lukebird, are there more compelling reasons to buy a mac over a pc? Please list them individually so I can completely enjoy the humour in each individual sentence.

While your at it, please explain why Adobe isn't releasing photoshop CS4 for macs. So predictable, when macdopes fail in hardware debates they turn to OS's, which is even more crap.

See Lukebird?? This was point about needing a psychologist to figure out why people buy macs. We are 8 pages into this debate and even though so many great pro pc's point have been raised, you still refuse to accept logic. Accept you have bought rotten apples, accept the financial loss, years of always being behind, limited software, the ridicule and humilation of owning a mac and then begin to heal.

For anyone who still wants to buy a mac, follow your dog around with a bucket, it's alot cheaper.

Hey, lay off us macin-fans! Just because you've got a PC doesn't allow you to harass us and besides macs are better in these ways:
1. No viruses
2. One retail 'ultimate' version
3. Special Mac Forums
4. The ability to use EFI, whatever that means
5. The ability to install and uninstall applications by drag and drop
6. Face it, iwork is mac-only
7. ilife 08
8. simple user interface
9. the ability to run all systems
10. the command key
11.Do I even need a reason?

Sorry, was using an example. Basically you have something thats done 100% behind closed doors, its hits the real world and falls on its face.

1. See my previous posts.

4.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exten [...] _Interface
That has nothing to do with how the PC performs in real life, you may notice like a .01% difference with EFI but with OCing and other availabilities on legacy BIOS the PC platform easily outweigh EFI.

6 &7. You have smiler or better software for PC. Also you can run any of those apps on a Virtual Machine under Linux/Windows. For example
CinePaint (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CinePaint ) and GIMP (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GIMP ) are software that even rival Photoshop,etc once you learn to use it.

"Spin your lies: Adobe is releasing CS4 for macs but it won't be 64bit like the PC version "

Sorry amdfangirl, last time I read up on it, they wern't. The inability for them to be able to release a 64bit version is a counter arguement for people promoting the mac OS as the greatest system blah blah. If Photoshop isn't the signature app for mac's, what is? Bwahahaha.

Macgirlfriend at least you attempted to put up some reasons, lame as they were, where's lukebird?

Even though I get frustrated by mac zealots, I still wish them all well, they are trying. Why they have to be so stubborn, why they are determined to pay more for less I guess is something for those interested in human behaviour to contemplate.

It's ok to admit to have made a mistake, I haven't met a human yet that hasn't made one, most have made many, but that's no reason to make it a habit. I hope those of you that aren't emtionally attached to an underachieving platform will break free and embrace the white goodness of the PC world.

For those one eyed stubborn mules I still say:

For anyone who still wants to buy a mac, follow your dog around with a bucket, it's alot cheaper.

Agreed. But MAC is still evil in my book no matter what anyone says.

Most Web servers are Linux but nowhere near 90% of them. http://survey.netcraft.com/Reports/200804/ is a report of what Web servers were running what Web server software. Some software, particularly Apache, runs on a bunch 'o OSes so it's hard to tell what was behind it, but it's usually Linux. IIS runs only on Windows.

It is very hard to compare the number of Linux (or any other free Unixes such as one of the BSDs or Solaris) users to users of other OSes as it very hard to get a count of people who run Linux.

1. Windows and MacOS market share are usually computed by OS sales figures. The vast majority of people who run Windows buy it rather than pirate it and even more so for MacOS, making these decent metrics. However, Linux is very rarely sold pre-installed on computers or in boxed sets that can be tallied.

2. Many people who run Linux, including almost every laptop user, do so on a computer that shipped with another OS preinstalled. So this counts as a user for the shipping OS and not the Linux it actually runs.

3. Linux is GPL software and such you can download and share install media legally. This makes counting the number of downloads of CD/DVD images from the distributor not such a great indicator of actual users as one CD image could have been passed around 30 times or one guy could have downloaded 30 different distros' images to try them out before setting on one he liked.

4. The other method of calculating OS share is by browser user agent string. There are multiple problems with this, the first being that some websites will flat-out refuse to serve pages to browsers that do not have an OS string with "Windows" or "Macintosh" in it. Thus some Linux users fake user agent strings to say IE on Windows, making their Linux computer count as a Windows machine. Also, certain websites will attract proportionally more or fewer Linux users based on their content. Slashdot attracts a bigger percentage of Linux users than most sites, while Windows game fan sites will attract very few Linux users.

XP IA64 and x86 is NT version 5.1 and Windows XP x86_64 is NT 5.2. Like all of the other NT family OSes (NT 3.1, 3.51, 4.0, 5.0 [W2K]) it does not use DOS. MS claims that the 2 GB of NT kernel source code that was leaked was a big security risk but several other OS kernels have their source completely "out in the wild" but are considered more secure than the NT kernel. I really think that the fear was that the source code had stuff in it that would either embarrass MS such as the swearing that was in the comments or very sloppy coding, or it had stuff illegally ripped off from OSS or other projects.

The Windows NT kernel was made by ex-DEC VMS programmers and is said to be pretty similar to the VMS kernel. Windows NT is somewhat POSIX-compliant but it is not very Unixy. The filesystem is not a traditional Unix rooted one nor is the OS organized in the typical /bin, /usr, lib, etc. format. The Windows command prompt is also about as close to a Unix terminal as a Power Wheels car is to a Formula 1 race car.

@macfangirl

There are viruses for the Macintosh. I do think there is some truth to the lower market share making non-Windows computers a less-desirable target for virus writers. But if that were the whole story, we'd see a ton of viruses for Linux and UNIX as there are a bunch of Linux/UNIX servers out there. A Linux or UNIX (BSD/Solaris/AIX/HP-UX/etc.) server is a VERY high-value target due to the big, fat pipe to the internet that's guaranteed to be on 24/7, as well as lots of local hard drive space. That would make a heck of a lot better warez server than Aunt Millie's Pentium III Windows machine on dial-up. I think that Windows is targeted because it's much easier to target. Aunt Millie is much more vulnerable to social-engineering viruses and thus is more likely to open up OohLookAtTheCutePuppies.exe.jpg than a Linux/UNIX user or admin will be to open OohLookAtTheHotNakedChick.sh.jpg. Also, there are many more programs for Windows and as the recent Vista v. OS X v. Ubuntu hack-a-thon showed, crappy third-party programs are the more often becoming the downfall of OS security. And as that same hack-a-thon showed, it was OS X that was the most vulnerable as it folded first.

There is only one retail Ultimate version of Windows Vista- they even took the liberty of labeling it explicitly as such But to the original poster, there are not one but TWO versions of OS X- the standard desktop/laptop one and OS X Server. ONE version of Linux or UNIX will be able to do any of those functions as you can simply install and remove packages at will to set up a server or desktop without paying a cent, something that Windows or OS X will not let you do.

There are special Windows forums *cough*http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-44.html*cough* *cough*http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-45.html*cough* out there as well as a ton of special Linux and BSD forums. Just about every Linux/UNIX distribution has at least one user forum if not several. OS-specific forums are nothing unique to any OS.

There is an old adage: if you don't know what something is, you don't need it. The definition of EFI you're looking for here is Intel's proprietary Extensible Firmware Interface, which is a method of bootstrapping a computer that doesn't use a derivative of the IBM PC BIOS. (EFI usually means "electronic fuel injection," which your computer would not be able to use very well, not unless you want to keep your house from combusting.) Linux and BSD can use EFI also; it's really only most (all?) versions of Windows that cannot use EFI to boot. Personally, I don't think that EFI is all that as something like LinuxBIOS is much more powerful and interesting, not to mention not tied solely to Intel and runs on many more motherboards.

Again, not unique to MacOS: http://klik.atekon.de/ Plus I think that Linux and BSD package managers have drag-and-drop beaten as you don't even have to go find and download the .dmg file and then drag-and-drop to get the program to work. You simply open up the package manager window and pick out your program and it is automatically downloaded and installed. Or you can do it from the terminal- something like "<package_manage_name> install <program>" will do the same job. It doesn't get any quicker than that unless the computer can read your mind.

iWork is nothing special- I've used it. It's a set of relatively simple office programs, comparable to KOffice, GNOME Office (AbiWord + Gnumeric + something else I forget) or MS Works + a mediocre presentation program. MS Office and OpenOffice.org have many more features and are less expensive if you are a student. iWork costs a hundred simoleans while Office 2007 is $59 and OpenOffice.org is gratis. iWork might be fine if it were given away for free or for a small fee like $20 but there's no way that it's worth a hundred dollars.

Apple's media editing software that they bought from third party developers and tweaked is decent, but it isn't the end-all, be-all. It's expensive too.

It might be simple but that doesn't make it good. Case in point: the one-button mouse may be simple but I'd rather have a second and third button than have to go command+click to get a right click and who knows what combination to get a middle click. Sometimes things are made so simple that they actually make doing your work harder than if almost all of the features were not stripped out.

Oh really? No matter what your definition of "systems" is, you're wrong:

1. Systems meaning "operating systems:" Try to run HP-UX, AIX, or RISC OS on your Apple computer, I dare you.

2. Systems meaning "computer systems" as in individual machines: I have a pretty typical custom AMD X2 desktop here that I betcha won't install from a legit OS X disk. Nor will my Gateway laptop. About the only OS that stands a chance of being able to run on any arbitrary computer system is Linux, followed by one of the BSDs. But even those OSes won't install on some very obscure hardware or anything older than a 386.

Okay, and Windows has a Windows key and some custom keyboards have a Tux, daemon, or Solaris logo key. They are all just extra modifier keys like Alt or Ctrl. You can use a Macintosh keyboard with many OSes and the command key will work just the same as those other keys I mentioned. It's nothing special.

<joke>I should hope not, you're pretty young even by ghetto or redneck standards. Usually girls don't start to pop 'em out until they are 15 or 16 if my tenure in high school was any indication.</joke>

All joking aside, ask anybody who is a new parent and they'll say roughly what you did. They'll also say that after what feels like only a few years later they are middle-aged and their kids are all grown up and have kids of their own. Life does pass by pretty quickly, make sure to enjoy it when you can.

I still wouldn't. Even if Apple allowed the installation of OS X on non-Apple hardware, the driver situation would be a deal-breaker in most cases. Vista x86_64 on launch day or Linux in 1998 would look like a paradise of driver availability compared to OS X.

MAC CRACKED IN 2 minutes 30 seconds LOL, mac get no viruses, uh thats not completely true, they just dont make headlines. And uh hope your not banking online, or putting
your SSN into things with the whole SSL issues with Safari.

I'm not a Mac operating system hater, I just dislike everything else apple.
But there are issues with it just like with everything else. Main problem is
nobody ever hears about these issues because the install base isnt large enough
to make headlines like VISTA.

Absolutely!
Adobe would piss off a fair few customers if they didn't release a Mac version!

I stand corrected.

Edit: Now I remember where I got that 90%, I meant that most servers (file servers,etc), and about 90% run Linux.

Hey I did nothing to be mean. Just pointed out facts. Thats not being mean its just being honest. I truly don't think MACs are superior to PCs in any way. They are literally the same system with different OS's. The main difference for me is 2 things. The ability to play any game I want and the ability to build and upgrade when need be. If I can't build it or upgrade a PC its just a useless box to me.

But at the end of the day why should a machine be complicated when the time spent designing or doing what they supposed to do with image manipulation or magazine design for example as apposed to messing about with a rather large and chunky operating system and worry about driver updates and wether or not some ones going to infect you with a virus...

Then when it does get an update your reminded to reboot 50 times a minute because the machine cant handle a simple rejection...

Macs are for people who dont want to think about their surroundings ( no offence but Michael Shumacker ( how ever u spell it ) doesnt worry about how much oil he has in his Ferarri does he ) and weather or not a paper cup is in the right place, they just dont care, theyre not paid to think about it... but just get on with the task they are intended to do with out disturbance appart from cups of coffee, bottles of Evian and an occasional luvvie lunch and a smoke....

Which at the end of the day seems more counter productive than switching on and hoping that Windows starts with out a glitch because they didnt turn the machine off properly because it hung and corrupted the file allocation or with a badly written piece of software which is a 15 generation video card driver that crashes the display to the point that it gives a blue screen and reboots and looses the work...

Secondly .. Come on folks Macs have been better looking machines a long time before pcs started to look like Dolly Parton with a undersized bra....Can you honestly say that you have never said some thing was cool on a Mac then you have lived in a padded bucket inside a padded barrel inside a padded cell. Some things are cool on a Mac, some are not.. But I never got on with a single button mouse....

Yes the pc is my computer of choice but Macs do just look that bit better...

Which Linux guy?

I don't know. I only know one person on the forums that is known as "the Linux guy," and I haven't seen him up in the CPU section for years- he's linux_0. Maybe she was talking about me since I mentioned that I run only Linux on my machines and referred to Linux (and other Unixes) frequently in my reply to her Macintosh-loving acquaintance. But several other people said they used Linux as well, so I'm not really sure who she was talking about.

"And let me answer your question, why should I justify why I bought a Mac to such a child-like, pathetic response as you. Anything I say, you're going to argue with, so I won't bother, thanks! "

Translated: "No I can't justify why anyone would buy a mac over a PC"

Lukebird my point entirely. I don't want to get into some tit for tat bitter debate over crap, I just don't understand why anyone would buy a mac, alot like many of the people that frequent these forums.

Amdfangirl if you type Photoshop CS4 into google you will see many articles stating its compatibility with Vista, regarding the 64 bit version anyhow. Obviously they are going to have to provide a 32 bit version for both PC and Mac, but my point was about Mac OS'S being behind, especially in the delivery of a 64 bit platform. From what I have heard Mac owners will have to wait until CS5 to get a 64 bit version, if there 64 bit platform is ready and stable by then.

I still like Mac people, confused as they are. They are trying even if logic and reason isn't there strongest points.

"Macs are for people who dont want to think about their surroundings ( no offence but Michael Shumacker ( how ever u spell it ) doesnt worry about how much oil he has in his Ferarri does he ) and weather or not a paper cup is in the right place, they just dont care, theyre not paid to think about it... but just get on with the task they are intended to do with out disturbance appart from cups of coffee, bottles of Evian and an occasional luvvie lunch and a smoke.... "

When it comes down to serious "creative" work one does have to think about his/her surroundings. That's why animation/games/special affects houses use PC hardware in bulk, and for the few that try rotten apples, they only do so because thier Intel inside and got there rotten apples dirt cheap or free.

As for this whole debate about PC's being pro virus, what a joke. If you have a half decent firewall/anitvirus you rarely have to worry about anything. I'm not sure what sort of security is available for mac's but like everything else I'm betting it's second rate at best.

Asthetics:
"Secondly .. Come on folks Macs have been better looking machines a long time before pcs started to look like Dolly Parton with a undersized bra....Can you honestly say that you have never said some thing was cool on a Mac then you have lived in a padded bucket inside a padded barrel inside a padded cell. Some things are cool on a Mac, some are not.. But I never got on with a single button mouse.... "

Mac have no hope in winning in the fashion stakes either. Just look at an Alienware case or something like my cosmos S. Mac hasn't got anything anywhere near that horny. If horny isn't your thing, there are plenty of other cases, to cater for the many different tastes, which isn't something you can say about cracks.....oops I meant macs.

Notice how when you ask for SUBSTANCIAL reasons no one can come up with one? See Lukebird this was my point about the inhouse psychologist because everytime the mac/pc debate comes up this is where it ends up for mac lovers, in an infinite pit of NOTHING!!

Has anyone found ONE real reason yet to buy a crack....err mac. You wouldn't think one would be too much to ask.

I still say:
For anyone who still wants to buy a mac, follow your dog around with a bucket, it's alot cheaper.

(Harry Plopper you can always spray paint the doggy doo a gloss white if you don't like its colour.)

OMG plopper has gone bezerrrrk!!! Relax dude your going pop an artery.

"Macs are still king in the print studio arena and magazine design... FACT - get over it... Oh and what is prefered in making news papers ooh let me think - MACS oh and most Photostudios use - what did I hear every one say --- MACS...and what I said is true - mac uses dont need to worry about their operating system ( thats OS to you ) just the programs they work on... "

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

OMG someone help me up......I fell out of my chair after reading that one.

Plopper is your idea of high end computing newspapers and print? My local printer has over 1 million dollars worth of print gear at his factory, nothing smaller than A2 in 2D as well as 3D printers and holographics printers. He gave up on macs in 1992. Yes 1992!!! Why? Apple never bothered to intergrate there crapware with industry, didn't have any CAD packages and only lameass Lightwave as a 3D package. You go on about photostudio's yet don't say a word about the BIG special affects and animation houses.

photostudio's......bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Mac's now use critical components developed originally in the PC market like CPU's and GPU's. Why aren't PC users yearning for original mac gear? It's shyte that's why.

You keep going on about the mac os, adobe couldn't even write a 64 bit version of photoshop for mac's, the os being so crap. No problems rolling it out on Vista.

Wait for CS5 plopper...you MIGHT get a 64 bit version then...bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Oh as for the handles on the cosmos s, they are made to be carried around, for exhibitors at trade shows and for gamers who take there machines to LAN parties. The only reason someone would put a handle on a mac is to lower it into a dumpster. If they didn't care about noise they'd throw it in.

Ok plopps, enough dribble, I am still waiting for one good TECH reason to buy a mac.

I still say:
For anyone who still wants to buy a mac, follow your dog around with a bucket, it's alot cheaper.

Again ranting like a child who dropped his lolly pop

You still seem to be obviously obnoxious which is typical about the whole thing so ill put a stop to, we will agree to disagree..

No he just doesnt know what the f#@+ hes on about


I know what I Know because I deal with the design industry....

He proberly lives with his parents, favourite game is on mini clip or Pippa Funnel horse riding because he hasnt played anything else...

Obnoxious, arragant and rude..... and as for the comments agains Lukebird.. pah I feel sorry for him...

You need some sort of reasonability management,, more or likely a single child,, if he aint he sure acts likeone..

Simply put, I like to game. That in itself leaves Macs out of the picture. Everything else, Im sure theyre fine for, or mostly. But even a wii can game heheh

A good lesson for any newbie considering buying a mac:

1. We are ten pages into it and NO ONE has provided a genuine technical reason to buy a mac over a pc.

2. Mac supporters don't care about facts, reason or logic. They are happy to argue forever, even with so much evidence to the contrary staring them in the face.

3. Argueing with so much contrary evidence before you isn't credible, it's some sort of mental disorder, but that's thier problem, don't make it yours.

4. Tormenting supporters of a certain brand or platform in a forum usually pushes people to find and publish hard evidence supporting there claims, in this case mac supporters have been UNABLE to provide this evidence despite being so irrate. No one is able to provide this evidence.

5. If after reading this entire thread you still buy a mac, you deserve to be dissapointed and ripped off, because yes, we told you so.

6. I am sorry for offending people, I know I did. I know every clear thinking young person will see reason and see through the false mac propoganda.

7. To my stubborn and fierce mac opponents, my appologies, you will never change, I will always laugh and no one should have there computing experience ruined despite what platform there on. Young people are a priority and no one's ego should get in the way of presenting them the truth.

Big group hug........

There are plenty of professional designers that don't use Mac's and do just fine, well when you take into account the cost savings from not buying a Mac, dividends at the end of the year are that much rosier.

Fuss free, like how Vista is hmm, creative tool you sound like a Mac advertisement, you can be creative on Windows 95 if you chose to that entire argument has nothing to do with being creative as its the user that takes care of that end.

No I will have to disagree its not a good thing your paying upwards to 30%-50% more for a pretty box that’s only that a pretty box, you said it yourself it's a tool why on earth do you need pretty tools to work with when a simple and to the point tool will do just fine and wont devalue if you scratch or scuff it.

If pc vendors can’t make money why is that a valid argument to give Apple any of your hard earned money to me that sounds like a good opportunity to get quality components for a fair and reasonable price.

So your argument is still Mac's make money give them money to make money its for the best?

PC's are good at everything period, and with the right hardware software can be superb at everything.

Ya I see the self righteous people right in front of my face.

We are ten pages in and you're STILL mindlessly ranting about Macs. I have given you more than one oppurtunity to drop it and you haven't. So be my guest, rant away, enjoy yourself....
Oh and the bit in bold, irony lost on you, eh?

Were those comments about me, or the comments that Vertigon made about me?

You are now testiculating...

Im glad that you have found a scientific miracle as the only human being who speaks out of their backside....

Congratulations..