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Another upgrade question

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Once again I, the new guy, ask the smart users of this site for advice. I have been cruising THG for over a year now and just recently started to appreciate the forum. I spent the last few months reading forum topics and noticing the great advice some give here. So now my question, how imperative is it that I upgrade? I like to game on my computer and feel that my current set up is not handling things the way I would like it to. So a simple look at my system setup would tell you that it is sort of out-dated for a gamer. I'm still running a P4 socket 775 3.4ghz HT with 2mb of cache, 1gb of pc3200 ram, 440mhz core clock and 1300mhz ram for the video card (7800Gs XFX) agp. I also have a 550 watt psu and a sound blaster audigy 4. My question is should I strain my limited income on a new build or could I do a "half" build and maybe re-use the processor in a new motherboard with a new vcard and such. (I recently had to upgrade my hdds to sata due to a drive failure). I would also need a new case seeing as I got an matx case last time and the airflow sucks!. What do you think?

------------------------------ "man, if he wants to play Diablo with you; hes not your friend, he's like your dealer" - a friend on the addiction...

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Start with a new vidcard, get yourself a 8800 GT, see how that fairs for yah.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814130319

If you like the results, sweet, if not, then we can work on more.

Reply to Monsterpuff

correct me if i'm wrong, but won't a P4 HT bottleneck - no, severely bottleneck an 8800GT? not to mention PSU issues and all that

Reply to amd_fanboi

Thats what I was thinking amd_fanboi. So its most likely better for me to spend slightly less than $1k on a new one; only re-using hdds and possibly psu. Unless you think I could survive on the p4 long enough to hold me over till nehalem or whatever the new substantially changed processor set will be.

------------------------------ "man, if he wants to play Diablo with you; hes not your friend, he's like your dealer" - a friend on the addiction...
Reply to heyheyheyo

what is your system not handling in particular? you should be able to play everything but the most recent games (almost NOBODY can handle Crysis so don't use that for a judgement call now) If you need to pry open some more juice, just get either a 3870 (under $200 now!) or an 8800GT and wait it out. heck, if it were me, and i had no pressing need to play something newer, I'd just ride out another 6months, wait for more info on Nehelam & the Stars core come out. The reason i did a completely new build last month is because my desktop had been DEAD since November.

Reply to serj

there is always something new just around the corner. and the latest and greatest is always later than expected and not as great as promissed.

I'll be honest, your system sounds comperable to mine, and I'm not having problems yet. I beat you mainly in upgradability.

a partial upgradecould be done for $400-$500 ($100 for mobo, $100 for case, $200 for video, $100 for memory)

All you are realy carrying over is an outdated 32 bit single core CPU.

you could get a whole new system for not much more. I'd suggest AMD for a bugget sensitive build with room to grow.

I think you should hold off for now, maybe start hording your pennys.

at 17, I asume college may be in your future, waite till then, there are always gaming machines for sale a few months after classes start because people decide they'd rather have beer money. you may either feal the same, or pick up something then.

Reply to Groo

Yeah I was dumb enough when I shopped around/building my current computer to get a motherboard with an agp slot, not a pcie... I didn't know as much as I do now....I can agree about hoarding pennies because I have been very back and forth on this issue. One of the colleges I could be at next year has laptop requirements that can be relatively strict and pricey. I have to wait to see where I go if I were to build something new. Also, upon review of my processor's box its a 64 bit. I guess I just really hate how loud my current computer is and have seen some high temperatures from my case's cpu temp. display. Maybe just a new case with better airflow or a good aftermarket cpu cooler. (I never went aftermarket on the processor because im using an matx case with very limited space and a single case fan...).

On the issue of having problems; my system just seems to stutter a bit and be a bit slow when I have firefox itunes and aim open. Especially if I have a few tabs open on firefox. Game wise I'm not really playing many new games because I got worried about proc. temps when I played quake 4 shortly after I made this system. I havn't bought any new games but I would like to get bioshock and within the year I will want spore and maybe even ut 3. Most of the other major games coming out I have for my 360 but those 3 are ones I know I would enjoy more on a computer setup.

Oh yeah and Command and Conquer 3 ran relatively slow on this machine.

any new suggestions of a better heat sink or anything?

------------------------------ "man, if he wants to play Diablo with you; hes not your friend, he's like your dealer" - a friend on the addiction...
Reply to heyheyheyo

I personaly like uATX cases and motherboards. nobody (outside some servers) needs all the space provided by a full ATX any more, unless your SLI/Crossfiring it (and there was at least one SLI mother board built in AXT), and many consider that a waste of money. if your space is limited, and at college it probably will be, uATX is nice to have.

I know what your saying about strick notebook policies. I'm looking to go back, and one of the schools I'm looking at pretty much requires a newer MacBook Pro, and a seperate backup HDD, and a load of high end software. so tack on about $3000 to the already high tuition and the cost of relocating.

there are decent uATX cases out there, but even the good often limit your CPU cooler options. with my Ultra Microfly ( a cube uATX case, similar to some of the Aspires) I upgraded my cooling to a higher end OEM cooler. In my case it was an Opteron 165 cooler on my 65nm dual core. Basicly I got 4 heatpipes and copper fins with a decent fan vs. extruded aluminum and a crap fan. Given the heat output of some of Intel Core2 duals and quads I'm guessing thier coolers are pretty good. look on ebay. given that latly CPU have been getting more efficient, you might be able to carry over the improved stock heatsink to you next build.

Another more extreme option is water cooling. this will work great for you if your willing to put the radiator outside of the case. the water cooling fixtures can be carried over to you next system

if you need more air in your case, you can always just cut holes and add ducts and/or fans. you dont even need more holes, just more fans inside the case will sometimes help with cooling.

the other option is just get a higher flow full sized ATX case and an aftermarket cooler. both should be able carry over to you next build. If you like glowing alien looking boxes with enough fans to require a bigger PSU, then this is the way to go. I personaly like a rather unobtrusive clean small box thats easy to ignore and kicks out almost no light when I'm trying to sleep. When I was robbed recently, they left the computer, but took the screen, so small and unobtrusive has its benifits.

you may be able for find a low end uATX motherboard that has PCIe, DDR1 and suport for your CPU, if all your after is a new graphics card.

personaly I'd say mod you case or get a new one, and upgrade cooling.

if you gat a new case, save to box for the move.

Reply to Groo

you might want to add another gig or 2 of memory, its cheap, and it may be the crutch to keep you going a bit longer. the stuttering my be your system using virtual memory

Reply to Groo

I vote to reuse your case, HDD, CD/DVD whatever you have. Buy all new guts and rebuilt it. AGP is hard to work with and your CPU will bottleneck everything new. If you weren't a gamer I'd say throw some more memory at it but that isn't your case. Just buy within a budget and we can all help with that.

------------------------------ Big Brother Rules with an Iron Fist
Reply to jay2tall

If I'm going to save money I would definatly re-use my dvd burner, soundcard, hdds and the psu if I could.

I Once thought about getting a new case and I tried but it never booted up. After annoying back and forths with NZXT and some bad customer service I was able to return it. Maybe I could get a new case and try again and at worst have to start my new builder sooner.

Also, I once thought about another 1gb of ram to total 2gb but I decided I would most likely see a minimal performance gain. After all, task manager reports an average use of 583mb or my ram when I am using itunes, firefox and aim. Is that alot?

Oh yeah I went in bios to see the cpu temps right after start up and within 4 minutes of turning on he cpu was at 80degrees Celsius. Is that too much?

On the issue of Agp I have one of the best agp cards on the market seeing as it was one of the last to be made. I wouldn't see very many improvements by paying out the nose for a better card.

If it helps, this is the case I have:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6811144113

If I got a new case it would most likely be this one:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applica [...] u=ULT31824

- that was the case I wanted before the one I have now but couldn't afford back then...

------------------------------ "man, if he wants to play Diablo with you; hes not your friend, he's like your dealer" - a friend on the addiction...
Reply to heyheyheyo

80 is way too hot. stuttering is more often a sign of GPU getting hot, but its probably hurting from lack of airflow too.

your current case is virtualy Identical to mine, but mine doesn't have windows, but does have lots of vents punched low into the side.

the windowed version of my case has airflow problems too, check out how this guy solved them...

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forum [...] p?t=130982

you can probably skip the watercooling, but the mesh mod may help you a great deal.

do the mesh mod, get a better cooler.
there are some aftermarket coolers that will fit, but you may be better off dollar wise with a better OEM cooler.

start with the mesh mod, both sides. think about reversing and ducting your 120mm to you CPU, as it wont be doing much good exhausting with "open sides". maybe just add another fan blowing down on the CPU.

and of course clean out all the dust bunnies.

If I had your system, I wouldn't be upgrading, save for another 2 gigs of memory.
I'd say this stuff, unless your current is CAS2 ( that case spend a little more)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820231047

Reply to Groo

Well the stuttering isn't so much what seems to be a visual stutter as a slow system thing.

I think I will try to punch some vents and then add in some 80mm fans in the front of the case to move air to the back. and maybe get one of these to draw air in from one side to the other:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835888112

On the note of ram; if I got some I would probably get the same brand I already have. I know it may not be the greatest but it is cheap and matches:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applica [...] u=ULT31664

I do have another heat spreader in case I ever added another stick.

I think If it was worth liquid cooling I would just upgrade the whole cpu to another one. In terms of getting a better cpu heat sink and fan I think this would work:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applica [...] =T925-2034
It looks like it would be more low profile than other heat sinks and it was actually designed when the high temperature crappy architecture P4s were out.
what do you think?

------------------------------ "man, if he wants to play Diablo with you; hes not your friend, he's like your dealer" - a friend on the addiction...
Reply to heyheyheyo

It look like that heatsink is rather tall, it says 85mm, I assume that is wih the fan, but when I measured my case, I had about 70mm of clearance before hitting a brace. you'll have to measure your case.

I believe these 2 Zalamans are lower

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835118030

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835118005

as far as the vents, just pull the sides off your case and see if it helps.

with memory, keep everything in pairs, or memory speed will be drasticlaly reduced

Reply to Groo

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