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thats alot of cards lol I thought I went through alot:

Nvidia Geforce2 MX 200
ATI 9800 XT
ATI X600 XT
ATI X800 XL both AGP and PCI
ATI X1900 AIW
ATI X1900 XT
Nvidia 8800 GTS 320 x's 2
Next card...

THE ATI NVDIA 99999999 with 1 TB of RAm and able 2 do 1 million fps which will only cost 50$

LOL that would be awesome:|

Thanks for the thread boys ... LOL

LOL

Me too, I look forward to the:

Intel ATI NVIDIA X99999999 GT-XT with 2 TB for only $49.95. LOL

'nite

nite

Suggest what ati is already doing, to ati? Seems kind of redundant don't you think?

"Again I SAID THEY NEED CHEAP VIDEO CARDS THAT HAVE HIGH PERFORMANCE"

They do have cheap cards that have high performance. What are you getting at, that they should have something that beats the ultra for $200? I really don't understand what you're getting at

"Your still telling me price this price that. I said that they had cheap video cards that were as good as nvidia and your telling me they don't want to make them expensive your not even arguing something I said.... "

YOU'RE** for the love of god. They do have cheap cards that are as good as nvidia. I think you mean they should have cheap cards that are good as nvidia's top end card, and once again, that makes no marketing sense for them to concentrate on such a small market as opposed to the majority, especially in the fragile state they're in. I just hope to god you never get into any decision making position in a business with a thought process like that. Though with grammar like that, it's not like we have to worry about that.

"screw what makes us money and keeps this sinking ship afloat, there's a handful of enthusiasts that want a high end card that we don't have the resources to make at the moment."

I'm leaving this topic now, things are going to get ugly real quick if I stay.

You want a top end card? Buy an Ultra...

LOL i dunno why you join in the first place all you did right is correct grammer I think a English forum would do you good

Bye bye

Hey L1qu1d,

Sorry, but I came across another entertaining way of the "masses".

http://www.spikedhumor.com/article [...] _Math.html

I think we can speculate which is better when the new version of the 8800gts comes out this winter. With 128stream processors and 65nm production.

niceeee

and the driver downloads will cost....about...1000$.

LMAO !!!!!!!

My my this thread is a bit heated.

One thing I'd like to state though. L1qu1d, I'm sorry to say, your ideology is a bit false in different ways. You have to look at the entire picture from a business perspective. There are also many factors why AMD/ATI aren't up to par currently.

But before I get into that. When speaking of business, you have to assume. You can't get by without assuming what your rival company will be releasing next. Couple that with moore's law and you have an idea of how the technological prediction aspect works. Think back to the pentium 3/4 and athlon XP days. Intel just stayed its pace, with a much inferior architecture. They didn't expect AMD to come around the corner with a superior product. One, they didn't think AMD could pull it off considering their lack of staff/fabs/R&D funding. Two, intel was also flat out ignorant and lazy damn right lazy which is the biggest factor. The x86/GPU market constantly shifts, just like it has in the past. AMD and ATI were holding the crown back then, now it's switched places yet again.

Regarding the market percentage. I won't say 5%...But it's down right below 10% for sure. Not everyone has 400-600 dollars to throw away on a high end graphics card. The enthusiast market is very small. Everyone knows that. You also have to take in brand name computers into consideration as well. How many people do you know that waste money on a high end Dell XPS desktop or something similar from another brand? The high end market is small. They do make a small sum of profit but nothing so ludicrously high unlike the low/mid range market.

I really don't understand though why you consider the 3800 series a bomb. It's going to be a hit in my eyes considering the current market. Once I saw the performance numbers from the 8800 GT... I already knew it was going to be a success. I also knew that 8800 GTS and GTX income was going to suffer a HUGE decline. Availability is an issue as well. The 8800 GT is sold out everywhere. Nvidia did not acquire enough inventory to satisfy the consumer. Now, the 8800 GT is backordered to hell with not many willing to purchase a 8800 GTS/GTX. If Nvidia had enough stock of 8800 GT's...It would of been one of the smartest marketing moves ever. Especially with Tri-Sli becoming a reality. A very budget friendly card that can offer performance near the level of an 8800 GTX. Two 8800 GT's with a great retail cost would undoubtedly beat a 8800 GTX. With three who knows what the performance numbers would of been. It was a fantastic move to sell a LARGE amount of cards in the Mid-range market (where the money is). Yes, they would suffer with the loss of sales on 8800 GTS/GTX models. But the sheer volume of 8800 GT's they could sell would far outweigh the negative effect. Also, considering that the new high end will be surfacing around the 2nd half of 2008, a very clever strategy to load up on profit for a short period of time. But...They ran into the issue of quantity. They are in a tough position now trying to acquire chips, meanwhile their partners are angry due to the fact their 8800 GTS/GTX's aren't selling, on top of the fact they can't get their hands on anymore 8800 GT GPU's. A PERFECT situation for ATI....

Yes the 3850/3870 can't outmatch a 8800 GT in most applications. But that's not where the price tag ranges in. the 3850 is around 170-180 dollars. Within the range of the 8600 GTS. It clearly stomps it to nothingness. As well as the fact that it is identical to the 3870 except for clock speeds. All you need to do is OC the sucker (which oc's well). the 3870 coming out around the 220 dollar price range is also a fantastic deal. Here we have 2 great cards in terms of pricing and performance value in their market segment. We also know that ATI is planning to make a very large quantity unlike the 8800 GT. It's going to be a downright success in my mind. Just like the 2900 Pro situation. It's all about marketing. Taking excess 2900XT chips and placing them under a 2900 pro. Costs significantly less then a 2900 XT. Completely identical except for clock speeds. All you need to do is OC it to XT speeds or even beyond which MANY have done. It's all about price/marketing/performance...Nvidia have left a huge gap with the 8800 GT due to quantity. AMD is going to be raking it in due to that issue alone...So I don't consider it a "bomb".

Here are numerous benchmarks if you want to compare. Never trust benchmarks from just one source. It's always a good idea to double check the findings with other reviewers.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/1 [...] index.html
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3151
http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/arti [...] VzaWFzdA==
http://www.hothardware.com/Article [...] m%5FRV670/
http://www.extremetech.com/article [...] 044,00.asp
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/472/
http://www.guru3d.com/article/Videocards/472/
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardwar [...] e_preview/

Tons of nice goodies regarding the cards. Keep in mind that the 8800 GT costs quite a bit more then the 3850/3870. The 8800 GT retails atm due to demand around 270-320 (average 300). Meanwhile the 3850 is at 180.00 with the 3870 at 220. Does it offer better performance then the 8800 GT. Not really, But is the price/performance ratio higher? ATM, yes. It's all about performance per dollar. The 8800 GT is a FANTASTIC card and I'd rather take it over than a 3850/3870 any day. But you have to give credit where it's due. For the price range...the 3850 and 3870 are fantastic cards.

Regarding your statement, about people buying the most expensive card since they don't know any better. It has some light to it but not really. Of course people would expect a card that's more expensive to perform better. But you gotta keep in mind, the people that normally purchase like that buy brand names since they don't know any better. When it comes to custom computers. Most consumers have a slight education when it comes to computer/parts. Whether it be from them personally, or a friend giving advice/building it for them. Keep in mind most brand names are either integrated or low/mid range cards.

For the price..the 3800 series is great. It's not a top contender but that wasn't what it was made for. the 3850 is in the perfect price range, same goes for the 3870. the x1950 pro or 8600 GTS can't touch the 3850. Considering the small difference in price from these cards..expect this new series to become HEAVILY recommended. Once the consumers get tired of waiting for backordered 8800 GT's and cancel their orders, the 3800 series will sell even faster. That is if Nvidia can't acquire enough stock. The situation is perfect for AMD...If nvidia can't deliver, expect ATI to make some nice profit.

Also, I think it's a bit harsh to say they "screwed" us with the 2900 XT. This is just a natural occurrence of events that takes place repeatedly. One company always gains the upper hand for a while. Then things switch around as always. But remember, ATI/AMD have been undergoing a merger. It's not a simple process, and it does effect products/staff/production/research. Personally..I think everything is right on track. Expect big things from the next generation...Hopefully AMD/ATI has a winner on it's hands with r700. Afterally..I had a 9800 pro from the good old days.

Excellant post Kamrooz ! Some people here need to calm down and think about AMD/ATI's situation with a cool calm head. Sure I understand some here. They are frustrated cause ATI failed at taking the crown yet again. Patience is a virtue and Im sure once AMD/ATI are rdy they will bring forth a High-End offering that is sure to please you and everyone else looking for the same.

In the meantime, its time for AMD/ATI to rake in huge profits from this launch in order to better prepare for the future and that future is alot closer than many here think

I think I agree with Kamrooz, look on newegg. For right now, as of about 8 types/variations of the 3800 series available, they have 2 types of 3850's available, in other words these things could sell like hotcakes, which might mean the video wars heat up and give AMD a couple of years, we might have them bringing up some more good stuff.

every1 is entitled to their own.
I stand by my opinion

Agreed. Even two 3870s don't cost as much as 8800GTX

Don't worry, Hector is rumoured to be replaced in april, AMD h