Verizon sued for crippling Bluetooth in Motorola v710 - Page 2
Forum Mobility Networks : Cingular - Verizon sued for crippling Bluetooth in Motorola v710
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
Can you get Cell Phones there? 
Mij Adyaw wrote:
> What is wrong with "Wally World"? I purchase everything there :-)
>
>
> "SinghaLvr" <singhalvr@charter.net> wrote in message
> news:0001HW.BE0EEA8800166513F02845B0@nntp.charter.net...
>> On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:34:19 -0500, xman@thedripper.com wrote
>> (in article <10uivid23o0mee@corp.supernews.com> ):
>>
>>> Anyway, Cingular is a large corporate mogul also...but they
>>> services and products are much better and they don't cripple any of
>>> their hardware at all. Swap a SIM card and you're up and working.
>>> Not to mention the many times I've indicated Cingular's (GSM)
>>> available phone list.
>>
>> as you correctly point out .... there's really nothing wrong with
>> being a "big gigantic" company. It's when that same company is
>> arrogant that things
>> go bad. (Wal-Mart is a terrific example of this .... )
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:03:54 -0500, Peter Pan wrote
(in article <34tepvF4f6bajU1@individual.net> ):
>
> Can you get Cell Phones there?
You used to could ....
BellSouth used to have Kiosks in the stores. I'm not sure if Cingular still
does. It's been a while since I've been in there.
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:28:16 GMT, "David M. Moore"
<davmooDEATH@TOgibbousmoonSPAMMERS.com> wrote:
>If it would merely support transfering the phonebook between itself and a
>PDA wirelessly, I'd buy the V710 right now. But that was the only feature
>I'm interested in. I don't need the camera, don't care about ringtones,
>etc and so on. So if the V710 will not transfer the phonebook wirelessly,
>there are numerous other phones that will meet the rest of my needs for
>considerably less in price.
Good for you, and that's a smart move. The "you" in my other message
was a generic "you", and not aimed at you in specific. 
I just don't have a lot of sympathy for folks who spend $400 on a
phone and don't realize what it can actually do or not do, then
complain that the company misled them just because they thought
"Bluetooth" meant the phone did everything Bluetooth supports. (Is
there any Bluetooth device that guarantees it offers every service you
can get out of the protocol?)
No, you did the smart thing...you needed phonebook sync, you
researched, you found out the 710 didn't do it, and you didn't drop
the money on the phone. I researched, found out the 710 DID do what I
needed (and quite well), and bought it. You and I are the smart ones.
The whiners who say "WAA!! VZW MISLED ME!! IT SAYS BLUETOOTH!!" are
not.
BTW, the 710 is a nice performer as a phone, with very solid RF
performance. I'm guessing the new Moto 265 has similar performance at
lower cost - no Bluetooth, etc.
Mike
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
John Navas wrote:
> I don't think so, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. Customization of
> phones by carriers is a well-established practice, and if you don't like the
> customization, don't buy the phone -- it's *really* that simple, and is how
> the market works.
I agree with this statement. The question is what the customer expectation was,
and whether they could reasonably have assumed they'd get the functionality
they're upset about not having. I guess we *will* have to disagree about that
--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
"In case anyone was wondering, that big glowing globe above the Victor
Valley is the sun." -Victorville _Daily Press_ on the unusually large
amount of rain the Southland has gotten this winter (January 12th, 2005)
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
Mike wrote:
> As far as the phrase above...I'm with you. Nothing in that phrase
> implies you'd be able to transfer files. I "connect with my PC and
> PDA" with the v710 on a daily basis.
Ok, name one other reason you'd connect a PC or PDA to your phone!
--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
"In case anyone was wondering, that big glowing globe above the Victor
Valley is the sun." -Victorville _Daily Press_ on the unusually large
amount of rain the Southland has gotten this winter (January 12th, 2005)
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
Steve Sobol wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>
>> As far as the phrase above...I'm with you. Nothing in that phrase
>> implies you'd be able to transfer files. I "connect with my PC and
>> PDA" with the v710 on a daily basis.
>
> Ok, name one other reason you'd connect a PC or PDA to your phone!
Duh... to use it as a modem maybe? Or as a phone and dial? Aren't you on
usenet? I'm using my PDA and Bluetooth at the moment, with my cell as a
modem...
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
Peter Pan wrote:
> Steve Sobol wrote:
>
>>Mike wrote:
>>
>>
>>>As far as the phrase above...I'm with you. Nothing in that phrase
>>>implies you'd be able to transfer files. I "connect with my PC and
>>>PDA" with the v710 on a daily basis.
>>
>>Ok, name one other reason you'd connect a PC or PDA to your phone!
>
>
> Duh... to use it as a modem maybe? Or as a phone and dial? Aren't you on
> usenet? I'm using my PDA and Bluetooth at the moment, with my cell as a
> modem...
Ok, now... what happens when you connect to the Internet with a modem and
read/write email, visit websites, or do just about anything besides sit with
your thumb up your ass?
(Yes, I'm being pedantic!!!)
--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
"In case anyone was wondering, that big glowing globe above the Victor
Valley is the sun." -Victorville _Daily Press_ on the unusually large
amount of rain the Southland has gotten this winter (January 12th, 2005)
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
Steve Sobol wrote:
> Peter Pan wrote:
>> Steve Sobol wrote:
>>
>>> Mike wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> As far as the phrase above...I'm with you. Nothing in that phrase
>>>> implies you'd be able to transfer files. I "connect with my PC and
>>>> PDA" with the v710 on a daily basis.
>>>
>>> Ok, name one other reason you'd connect a PC or PDA to your phone!
>>>
>>
>>
>> Duh... to use it as a modem maybe? Or as a phone and dial? Aren't
>> you on usenet? I'm using my PDA and Bluetooth at the moment, with my
>> cell as a modem...
>
> Ok, now... what happens when you connect to the Internet with a modem
> and read/write email, visit websites, or do just about anything
> besides sit with your thumb up your ass?
>
> (Yes, I'm being pedantic!!!)
Fraid I don't understand... If I'm using outlook on my PDA, and files that
are attached are saved on the PDA, what's the phone got to do with it?
If I send mail, it is saved on the device I write the mail on (the PDA....
*NOT* the cellphone)
Come to think of it, I can't think of a single thing that I do on the pda
when online has anything whatsoever to do with the phone.
And actually Steve, that's sort of funny, remember the Kyocera 2325 I got
from you? *That's* the cell phone I am using...
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:10:01 -0800, Steve Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net>
wrote:
>>>Ok, name one other reason you'd connect a PC or PDA to your phone!
>>
>>
>> Duh... to use it as a modem maybe? Or as a phone and dial? Aren't you on
>> usenet? I'm using my PDA and Bluetooth at the moment, with my cell as a
>> modem...
>
>Ok, now... what happens when you connect to the Internet with a modem and
>read/write email, visit websites, or do just about anything besides sit with
>your thumb up your ass?
>
>(Yes, I'm being pedantic!!!)
I guess...and I don't get it.
Mike
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
Mike wrote:
>>Ok, now... what happens when you connect to the Internet with a modem and
>>read/write email, visit websites, or do just about anything besides sit with
>>your thumb up your ass?
>>
>>(Yes, I'm being pedantic!!!)
> I guess...and I don't get it.
The whole argument is about the data transfer capabilities of BT - the whole
point of using a phone as a modem is to transfer data. The whole point of using
a phone for any other reason, when hooked up to a PC or PDA, is also to
transfer data.
--
JustThe.net - Apple Valley, CA - http://JustThe.net/ - 888.480.4NET (4638)
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / sjsobol@JustThe.net / PGP: 0xE3AE35ED
"In case anyone was wondering, that big glowing globe above the Victor
Valley is the sun." -Victorville _Daily Press_ on the unusually large
amount of rain the Southland has gotten this winter (January 12th, 2005)
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
Yes, you can. They stock handsets from Cingular, T-Mobile, Nextel,
Virgin Mobile, Tracfone, and formerly AT&T Wireless (at least in this
area). I have also seen Sprint PCS handsets stocked in Wal-Marts, but
have not lately (maybe the plug was pulled on them, or each store is
slightly different, not ignoring companied d/b in locale).
TH
Peter Pan wrote:
> Can you get Cell Phones there?
>
> Mij Adyaw wrote:
>
>>What is wrong with "Wally World"? I purchase everything there :-)
>>
>>
>>"SinghaLvr" <singhalvr@charter.net> wrote in message
>>news:0001HW.BE0EEA8800166513F02845B0@nntp.charter.net...
>>
>>>On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 15:34:19 -0500, xman@thedripper.com wrote
>>>(in article <10uivid23o0mee@corp.supernews.com> ):
>>>
>>>
>>>>Anyway, Cingular is a large corporate mogul also...but they
>>>>services and products are much better and they don't cripple any of
>>>>their hardware at all. Swap a SIM card and you're up and working.
>>>>Not to mention the many times I've indicated Cingular's (GSM)
>>>>available phone list.
>>>
>>>as you correctly point out .... there's really nothing wrong with
>>>being a "big gigantic" company. It's when that same company is
>>>arrogant that things
>>>go bad. (Wal-Mart is a terrific example of this .... )
>>
>
>
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
"Mike" <inundated9@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news
nqlu019fl2dlna20g2331fpt0j4p8rnmo@4ax.com...
> The key issue here, in any "lawsuit", is if VZW runs into any problems
> with the Bluetooth people by advertising "Bluetooth" with a subset of
> the entire feature set. If the people who own the trademark don't
> care, why should anyone else?
Umm... the people who own the trademark presumably only care that, at a
technical level, the Bluetooth protocol is implemented. They certainly
don't care about which particular profiles a company might choose to
implement in their product.
> If they don't care, it's YOUR fault for
> not finding out the facts, which were readily available before the
> phone was even released.
This doesn't fly. A court will look at the advertisements and the lawyers
will argue about how a 'reasonable' individual would have interpreted them.
I can see it going either way...
> And anyone who has Internet access, and is posting here, who's upset
> about this...has no leg to stand on. The ONLY people who have that
> leg are the folks who were misled by sales representatives that the
> phone was able to do those things.
I doubt a court would accept this; it's easy to demonstrate that many buying
decisions are made based on print advertisements, not what a salesperson
says, assuming one is even consulted.
> I repeat - do all things which support Bluetooth have to have all
> possible services?
Of course not. But again, the issue the court would address is... 'what
services would a reasonable person expect to find in a phone that advertises
itself as supporting Bluetooth?' The end.
---Joel Kolstad
Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular,alt.cellular,alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)
> Good for you, and that's a smart move. The "you" in my other message
> was a generic "you", and not aimed at you in specific.
>
> I just don't have a lot of sympathy for folks who spend $400 on a
> phone and don't realize what it can actually do or not do, then
> complain that the company misled them just because they thought
> "Bluetooth" meant the phone did everything Bluetooth supports. (Is
> there any Bluetooth device that guarantees it offers every service you
> can get out of the protocol?)
>
> No, you did the smart thing...you needed phonebook sync, you
> researched, you found out the 710 didn't do it, and you didn't drop
> the money on the phone. I researched, found out the 710 DID do what I
> needed (and quite well), and bought it. You and I are the smart ones.
> The whiners who say "WAA!! VZW MISLED ME!! IT SAYS BLUETOOTH!!" are
> not.
However, isn't the fact that Motorola sells its V710's directly with the
data [of the phone] sharing that's making the big deal?
That would be like buying a Nissan from the corporate website that
allows you to use any brand of gasoline at any station. But if you buy
the Nissan from a dealer, John Doe Nissan, that you can only use
gasoline from Nissan dealers.
I did my research, as well. I work in marketing, and we wanted camera
phones to eliminate the need for cameras AND phones. While we do not
need high quality pictures, we would be downloading them frequently.
For this reason, we chose to formally go with AT&T Wireless plans. Part
of the reason was that Verizon does not excel *in this area*, and
therefore is not as strong as the other carriers. However, the main
reason was the standardization of Bluetooth(R) in the rest of our field
equipment.
TH
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