Windows Explorer keeps crashing, taking Dr. Watson with it.

I've started having constant Windows Explorer crashes lately. It usually happens after I have a directory window open on the desktop and then close it. Unfortunately, it often freezes Dr. Watson with it, and my PC becomes unresponsive until I enter the Task Manager and kill both instances of Dr. Watson that is showing. What sort of things affect Windows Explorer? If there is something corrupt, is there a chance that if I install SP3 it will fix it?

Message edited by Warpspasm on 04-29-2008 at 06:18:39 PM

------------------------------ Gigabyte P35 D3SL, E4500, 1Gx2|Crucial Ballistix DDR2 800, EVGA 8800GT 512M, OCZ 700W GameXStream, Cooler Master 830 Evo

Add a reply

Register or log in to remove.

No! I have the same problem with XP SP3 already installed.

Whenever I try to edit a certain file or folder (renaming, moving, deleting, right-clicking it, etc.) Win Explorer crash-freezes accompanied by Dr. Watson, locking everything in the process.

I have absolutely no idea what's causing this. Any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated.

Reply to simdude

I also had Dr Watson and Explorer crashes on my Internet PC very recently. Though I think I’ve solved it.

If you use AVG8 then try uninstalling it, including all of the user settings and reinstalling it again.

Also try running a ‘detect and repair’ through MS office if you have it. (Open a word doc, Help menu and then Detect and repair)

Since trying this it has so far resolved the issue for me so I hope this helps.

Reply to shockwolf

I get two windows when the Explorer and Dr Watson crash:

AppName: explorer.exe AppVer: 6.0.2900.5512 ModName: comctl32.dll
ModVer: 6.0.2900.5512 Offset: 00087103

EventType : BEX P1 : drwtsn32.exe P2 : 5.1.2600.0 P3 : 3b7d84a2
P4 : dbghelp.dll P5 : 5.1.2600.5512 P6: 4802a0b2 P7 : 0001295d
P8 : c0000409 P9 : 00000000

As soon as I click anything, the computer locks and I have to use the Ctrl+Alt+Del Task Manager to end the processes.

Reply to simdude

That sounds worse than my situation then. Though mine hasn't come back on my server PC since luckily.

However on my Main PC I have noticed that Explorer and Dr Watson also crashes, but only when I right click and bring up the properties of some Installer.exe files.

This very strange indeed.

My System:

Asus P5N32-E SLI Socket 775 Nforce 680i SLI FSB1333 Audio Firewire ATX Motherboard
Kingston 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz/PC2-6400 Memory Non-ecc CL5 Unbuffered 1.8V
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Socket 775 (3.0GHz) 1333FSB 6MB L2 Cache Processor
Onboard SoundMAX Audio
Western Digital SATA 250GB HD Model WDC WD2500JS-00MVB1
DVD LiteOn DH-16D2P-02C
LG GSA-4167BAL 16x DVD±RW Dual Layer Internal IDE
2 x BFG 8800GT OC 512MB GDDR3 in SLI
Logitech Mx 518 Gaming-Grade Optical Mouse
Nostromo n50 Controller
Hi-Power Black 900W Modular 13.5cm Fan PSU
OS: Windows XP Professional with SP3

Message edited by shockwolf on 08-25-2008 at 03:07:03 PM

Reply to shockwolf

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x00010193.

Hanging application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, hang module hungapp, version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.

Faulting application drwtsn32.exe, version 5.1.2600.0, faulting module dbghelp.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x0001295d.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module ole32.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x00067e0c.

Faulting application drwtsn32.exe, version 5.1.2600.0, faulting module dbghelp.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x0001295d.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module comctl32.dll, version 6.0.2900.5512, fault address 0x00087103.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x00011746.

Hanging application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, hang module hungapp, version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x00010193.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x00010193.

Faulting application drwtsn32.exe, version 5.1.2600.0, faulting module dbghelp.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x0001295d.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x00011395.

Hanging application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, hang module hungapp, version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.

Faulting application drwtsn32.exe, version 5.1.2600.0, faulting module dbghelp.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x0001295d.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x00010193.

Faulting application drwtsn32.exe, version 5.1.2600.0, faulting module dbghelp.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x0001295d.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x00010193.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module unknown, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x00d700d3.

Hanging application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, hang module hungapp, version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module unknown, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x00d700d3.

Hanging application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, hang module hungapp, version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module unknown, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x00d700d6.

Hanging application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, hang module hungapp, version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.

Faulting application drwtsn32.exe, version 5.1.2600.0, faulting module dbghelp.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x0001295d.

Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module unknown, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x00d700d3.

These are the Event Viewer excerpts of the crashes that I got. For the Explorer, hangs, unknown module, ntdll.dll, ole32.dll and comctl32.dll were the baddies, as for Dr Watson, it's always the dbghelp.dll that goes down.

Does anyone have any ideas how to fix this !$#%ing thing? Please help!

Reply to simdude

Ok the problem is definitely back on both of my PC’s but it only seems to occur when messing about with Application files, like if I select them, copy and paste or view the properties of them. This causes Dr Watson and Explorer to crash and I need to use Task Manager to end task on the open folders. Also the event viewer logs are somewhat similar to Simdudes.

SERVER PC

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: (100)
Event ID: 1000
Date: 26/08/2008
Time: 20:13:09
User: N/A
Computer: SHOCKSERVER
Description:
Faulting application drwtsn32.exe, version 5.1.2600.0, faulting module dbghelp.dll,

version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x0001295d.

For more information, see Help and

Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 64 72 77 ure drw
0018: 74 73 6e 33 32 2e 65 78 tsn32.ex
0020: 65 20 35 2e 31 2e 32 36 e 5.1.26
0028: 30 30 2e 30 20 69 6e 20 00.0 in
0030: 64 62 67 68 65 6c 70 2e dbghelp.
0038: 64 6c 6c 20 35 2e 31 2e dll 5.1.
0040: 32 36 30 30 2e 35 35 31 2600.551
0048: 32 20 61 74 20 6f 66 66 2 at off
0050: 73 65 74 20 30 30 30 31 set 0001
0058: 32 39 35 64 295d

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1000
Date: 26/08/2008
Time: 19:35:41
User: N/A
Computer: SHOCKSERVER
Description:
Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module ntdll.dll,

version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x0000fe40.

For more information, see Help and

Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 65 78 70 ure exp
0018: 6c 6f 72 65 72 2e 65 78 lorer.ex
0020: 65 20 36 2e 30 2e 32 39 e 6.0.29
0028: 30 30 2e 35 35 31 32 20 00.5512
0030: 69 6e 20 6e 74 64 6c 6c in ntdll
0038: 2e 64 6c 6c 20 35 2e 31 .dll 5.1
0040: 2e 32 36 30 30 2e 35 35 .2600.55
0048: 31 32 20 61 74 20 6f 66 12 at of
0050: 66 73 65 74 20 30 30 30 fset 000
0058: 30 66 65 34 30 0d 0a 0fe40..

MAIN PC:

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: (100)
Event ID: 1000
Date: 26/08/2008
Time: 19:36:01
User: N/A
Computer: MEGATRON
Description:
Faulting application drwtsn32.exe, version 5.1.2600.0, faulting module dbghelp.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x0001295d.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 64 72 77 ure drw
0018: 74 73 6e 33 32 2e 65 78 tsn32.ex
0020: 65 20 35 2e 31 2e 32 36 e 5.1.26
0028: 30 30 2e 30 20 69 6e 20 00.0 in
0030: 64 62 67 68 65 6c 70 2e dbghelp.
0038: 64 6c 6c 20 35 2e 31 2e dll 5.1.
0040: 32 36 30 30 2e 35 35 31 2600.551
0048: 32 20 61 74 20 6f 66 66 2 at off
0050: 73 65 74 20 30 30 30 31 set 0001
0058: 32 39 35 64 295d

Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Error
Event Category: None
Event ID: 1000
Date: 26/08/2008
Time: 19:45:42
User: N/A
Computer: MEGATRON
Description:
Faulting application explorer.exe, version 6.0.2900.5512, faulting module ntdll.dll, version 5.1.2600.5512, fault address 0x00010193.

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp.
Data:
0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 65 78 70 ure exp
0018: 6c 6f 72 65 72 2e 65 78 lorer.ex
0020: 65 20 36 2e 30 2e 32 39 e 6.0.29
0028: 30 30 2e 35 35 31 32 20 00.5512
0030: 69 6e 20 6e 74 64 6c 6c in ntdll
0038: 2e 64 6c 6c 20 35 2e 31 .dll 5.1
0040: 2e 32 36 30 30 2e 35 35 .2600.55
0048: 31 32 20 61 74 20 6f 66 12 at of
0050: 66 73 65 74 20 30 30 30 fset 000
0058: 31 30 31 39 33 0d 0a 10193..

What is causing this? And why on 2 PC’s at once? I also have a laptop on the network that is the only one using XP HE instead of XP Pro and it seems to be fine. I’ve tried copying the healthy Dr Watson files from the laptop over the ones that are on the PC’s to replace them. It worked for about 10 minutes and then it started happening again.

I’m wondering if this is caused by either a shoddy update from Microsoft or maybe there is a new virus attacking? I have AVG8 running on my server and BitDefender on my other PC. I have Spybot and Ccleaner on both and they all seem to be finding nothing.

I’ve just run the online VS called HouseCall on my server and all it found was the ADWARE_MEMWATCHER. No mention of it doing this kind of damage though.

I am also backing up my main PC with Drive Image so that I can restore an older image to see what effect that has.

Reply to shockwolf

My PC isn't connected to the internet, so it can't be from a bad update or malware since I only updated it through the 3 Service Packs when each one came out. And I installed SP3 quite a long time ago while these crashes started about 10 days ago.

It must be something else, that corrupts those files as soon as they are replaced with new ones. The only things that I updated recently on my PC are the DirectX (august version) and my graphic card drivers (ati catalyst 8.7).

I've been suggested to perform a repair install of my WinXP Pro, but I'm afraid that once replaced, the bad files that'll get replaced will be corrupted back straight away.

Shockwolf, there must be something that both your PC's have in common, a recent update or something. As I said, the only things that I've changed on my computer around the date when this started are the DX 9 (aug update) and the Catalyst 8.7 graphic driver. Have you got any of these two on your PC's?

Reply to simdude

Indeed it could be that DX9 update then. Normally I have my automatic updates set to notify me before downloading and installing however I noticed that somehow they have been set back to automatic. So it is likely that it may have been the August DX9 patch and I use Nvidia cards on both machines, which means it can't be your ATI drivers. It could also be that the bug in the DX9 patch is greater with the Catalyst drivers than it is with the Nvidia drivers which is why you're having a worse time than I am with this.

Ok I've restored an older image on both of my PC's and so far they seem to be behaving properly. I have even received updates on my main PC with no introduction to any more errors. However I have not noticed any DX9 updates included yet. I shall be keeping an eye out for them though and probably ignoring them from now on.

Reinstalling Windows or restoring a backup may be the only answer to this I'm afraid. I'll post back here if the issue returns.

Message edited by shockwolf on 08-27-2008 at 04:35:49 PM

Reply to shockwolf

Damit!

:cry: I can't even repair install the windows. The windows setup manager detects two blank drives on my computer and asks me on wich one to install?

:fou: It should have detected my windows on drive C and I could have been able to repair-install it and keep all my other stuff too.

:pt1cable: What the heck is wrong? I can't backup or save my files, there's no windows detected on my computer, I've done all the virus, addware, spyware, malware, etc.ware scans and nothing was wrong, I've ran all the file cleaning, sorting, registry fixing, inspecting, utility programs I could find. I've ran the system file recovery and nothing was found, nothing has changed...

What the heck happened ?? Does anyone have any idea ? What could be wrong ??

Reply to simdude

I've found this problem reported on various internet forums since 2004-2005, so it can't be the august 2008 DX9 update, or any new graphic driver, or anything from the SP3.

Also, people are reporting a wide array of different .dll files going bad and causing their IE6 crashes. Almost always taking DrWatson with it, however dbghelp.dll is always what goes down in it, unlike IE6.

I'm going nuts! :pt1cable: I don't know what else to try!

Reply to simdude

Sounds to me, Simdude that you may just have hard drive failure. Both drives? Yes it is possible that both hard drives have taken a hit from something that’s happened somewhere.

It’s happened to me in the past and I needed to perform a ‘Low Level Format’ of both my hard drives to fix the problem. For me it had something to do with the MBR (Master boot record). I was unable to repair and install windows, even if I formatted my hard drives and because of it like you I was tearing my hair out and going insane.

You see when you format a hard drive it leaves the MBR as it is but a Low Level Format is a deeper format that also reformats your MBR and pretty much puts your hard back to factory settings. The MBR is a great place for viruses to hide!

Of course I could be wrong but right now it does remind me of that problem I also suffered way back when. But to find out whether it is that problem?

Your mission should you choose to accept it… :heink:
You will need this http://www.softpedia.com/get/Syste [...] MHDD.shtml

Before trying a low level format I would run whatever tests you can with it to see if it can find any issues with your drives. If everything checks out ok, then personally I would still try the low level format, especially if I’d backed up everything.

All your choice of course but I hope it helps. Good luck. :sweat:

Reply to shockwolf

Thanks for the link, but I'm not going to format until I can figure out what caused this behaviour in the first place and even then, I need at least a temporary fix of some sort that would allow me to save and backup my stuff. The biggest hurdle right now is that I can't save & backup anything on it. I can still access everything, everything works at full steam, but only as long as I don't try to move or edit any executable type file. Right now I can still move/edit other file types, but .exe type files ... :non: I can't touch them. The explorer & dr watson are crashing.

Reply to simdude

In that case it still sounds like the problem I’ve just cured by restoring an old image on both my PC’s. Still don’t know what caused it mind you but it’s not returned either and I’ve just put back all the software I had installed before. I am still keeping a close eye on the Windows Updates and I’ve not seen any DX9 updates as of yet. Maybe MS have recalled it because of these issues?

Right well if you want to backup then I use NTI Shadow. Here is a free trial for you to try http://www.ntius.com/shadow_downloads.asp
It may be enough for you to backup your data to a USB device of some sort. I recommend buying the full version at some point too because it really is that good but I wouldn’t rely on using the real-time continuous backup option though because it crashes for fun.

I also use Drive Image 7 because I don’t like using Windows System Restore. IMO I think it’s virtually useless. It slows your PC down because it backs up constantly in the background including viruses, spyware and errors so I always disable Windows System Restore. Drive Image 7 is the star software that restored my PC’s back to the healthy state they were in when I first set them up and has so far saved me. I always use it to make an image of my system drives every time I build a new PC, install and setup a fresh OS they way I like it to be.

It’s a bit odd that you can’t repair Windows because the Windows Setup Manager is detecting blank drives though. That part still reminds me of the MBR problem I had ages ago. Then again during the problem with the right clicking and attempting to move Application file crashes, I never even tried a repair of windows.

Personally I wouldn’t worry too much about what caused the problem. I just like to get things fixed either way. If the problem returns then finding out the cause becomes more important. Otherwise you can spend the rest of your life and never find the answer and never get it fixed. Just blame Microsoft; it’s easier that way. :na:

Reply to shockwolf

I don't know. I've never created windows restore points so far, so I don't have anything to go back to.

Reply to simdude

Then I’d definitely do a fresh format and install of Windows. Then invest in a USB hard drive, Drive Image 7 or higher and NTI Shadow. It’s well worth it! :sweat:

Reply to shockwolf

Wow !!

I managed to get the repair install process to work.

Did anyone knew that if you have a Windows OS installed from a Windows XP Pro SP0 retail disc and updated to SP3 along the way, you won't be able to use your original disc to do a repair install ? :heink:

Well, I didn't ! I had to get an XP Pro SP3 cd and do the repair thing with that, because my old original XP Pro cd doesn't work on a SP3 updated system anymore. I got the XP Pro SP3 cd in order to wipe out my drives and do a fresh install, but I decided to give it one more try at the repair process, with the new disc; and guess what ? It recognized my previous install and I was able to repair install it.

Now, I didn't yet tried to see if the repair process fixed my explorer/dr.watson crashing all the time issue, but I'll do that and post back here.

Reply to simdude

Ah so… just another way that Microsoft are refusing to become backwards compatible and encourage people to spend more money on their products eh?

:pfff:

Why am I not surprised by that one?

Reply to shockwolf

You can create your own SP3 CD... you don't need to order one from Microsoft. It has nothing to do with "backward compatibilty". Once an OS is upgraded with a Service Pack, it can only be repaired with a CD that has at least that service pack level integrated. In other words, you'll need a SP2 CD to repair a SP2 install... using a SP1 or original CD will NOT work.

If you have an original XP CD, you can integrate the latest service pack into the CD and create your own, up-to-date Windows XP CD. No need to buy anything at all. This has been something you've always been able to do since Windows NT.

------------------------------ Desktop: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit; Intel Q6600 CPU; E-VGA 780i SLI motherboard; E-VGA E-GeForce 8800GT; OCZ Vista 4GB dual-channel kit; Ultra X2 750W power supply; 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB in RAID 0. Laptop: Acer Aspire 8730-6314;
Reply to Zoron

I just knew my comment would get some Microsoft fan boy’s back up… *snigger* :lol:

:bounce:

Reply to shockwolf

I am no "fan boy" of Microsoft... I just can't stand people posting blantant inaccuracies as fact. Sure, there are those of us that know better... but it's that type of FUD-spreading that keeps people from trying out the latest hardware / software.

I'm sorry you see correcting lies as fanboyism.

------------------------------ Desktop: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit; Intel Q6600 CPU; E-VGA 780i SLI motherboard; E-VGA E-GeForce 8800GT; OCZ Vista 4GB dual-channel kit; Ultra X2 750W power supply; 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB in RAID 0. Laptop: Acer Aspire 8730-6314;
Reply to Zoron

OK, as I said I did a repair install and unfortunatelly nothing's changed. The explorer and dr watson keep crashing all the time.

Now, what does this mean ? Does it mean that it's not something caused by a corrupted Windows file and it's caused by some other software on my computer ? How can anything else other than the Windows itself crash the explorer and dr watson all the time ?

Reply to simdude

It depends on the software. Some can integrate themselves into the Windows shell and if they are buggy or corrupt, they will crash Explorer. Try removing anything you have installed that might have integrated itself into the shell.

------------------------------ Desktop: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit; Intel Q6600 CPU; E-VGA 780i SLI motherboard; E-VGA E-GeForce 8800GT; OCZ Vista 4GB dual-channel kit; Ultra X2 750W power supply; 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB in RAID 0. Laptop: Acer Aspire 8730-6314;
Reply to Zoron

As I said before I haven't installed anything except the DX9-august08 update and ATI Catalyst 8.7 graphic card driver before the crashing started. Nobody else reported anything like this related to those two and I belive I'm not the only one using them. Plus, neither one has anything to do with the win explorer.

Reply to simdude

ATi Catalyst certainly would crash explorer... is Windows completely up-to-date and specifically, do you have .Net framework installed? Catalyst does integrate itself into the Windows shell... so it certainly could be the cause of your problems. Have you tried other versions?

------------------------------ Desktop: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit; Intel Q6600 CPU; E-VGA 780i SLI motherboard; E-VGA E-GeForce 8800GT; OCZ Vista 4GB dual-channel kit; Ultra X2 750W power supply; 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB in RAID 0. Laptop: Acer Aspire 8730-6314;
Reply to Zoron

The Windows is SP3 and the .net framework is 3.0. Since the computer isn't and never was connected to the internet, these are the latest available updates. That don't require a connection.

As for the Catalyst there is only the 8.8 version that is newer, but as it came out after my comp started doing this, I haven't installed it yet. I suppose I can uninstall the graphic driver and see if it still crashes like that.

By the way, does installing Internet Explorer 7 or 8 also changes the Windows Explorer version or not ?

Reply to simdude

You might need .Net framework 1.1 or 2.0 for CCC to work properly... it wouldn't hurt to download those. You may want to try an earlier version of CCC if the newer ones don't work for you. It may also be due to an incompatibility with SP3. If nothing else works, try rolling back to SP2 and avoid SP3.

------------------------------ Desktop: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit; Intel Q6600 CPU; E-VGA 780i SLI motherboard; E-VGA E-GeForce 8800GT; OCZ Vista 4GB dual-channel kit; Ultra X2 750W power supply; 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB in RAID 0. Laptop: Acer Aspire 8730-6314;
Reply to Zoron

.net 1.1 and 2.0 are also installed alongside 3.0.

The graphic drivers and ccc's all work, this thing didn't started with the 8.7. Also I had SP3 installed for a long time working just fine. This behaviour came out of the blue.

As for the DirectX9 version and SP version, I have no idea how to roll those back to previous ones.

Does installing Internet Explorer 7 or 8 also changes the Windows Explorer version or not ?

Reply to simdude

No, it doesn't... only a service pack or newer version of Windows will change that.

------------------------------ Desktop: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit; Intel Q6600 CPU; E-VGA 780i SLI motherboard; E-VGA E-GeForce 8800GT; OCZ Vista 4GB dual-channel kit; Ultra X2 750W power supply; 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB in RAID 0. Laptop: Acer Aspire 8730-6314;
Reply to Zoron

It may or may not have been the wrong choice of words but what I meant by backwards compatible is; why do the later service packs have to render the older Windows CD repair jobs useless? Sure, it would be ridiculous expect a Windows XP CD to fix a Vista install but should it not work for a CD that is still the same OS?

At the end of the day all the service packs are is an amalgamation of updates. So why should that stop the original Windows CD, which still contains the core OS data from repairing what is still the core installation of the OS on the PC? Updates or not, could Microsoft not have designed it so that the older version CD's can still repair the core Windows instalment regardless of what service packs it has with the core files? Like setting it back to factory settings, even if it means removing the updates to do it. Would it matter having to download and install the service packs again, as long as the reversal-repair worked?

Also why could they not include the option to create a new rescue CD after the upgrade to a service pack compatible version? Or at least allow you to download an Application tool that can do this for you? Surely Microsoft are brilliant enough to have worked something out?

Now about Slipstreaming new SP3 CD's... okay let's be honest here, how many people are going to know about that trick? Is it even encouraged or advertised by Microsoft and is it something a more basic user can do? Or is it a 3rd party trick that requires 3rd party software and Techy instructions?

And sure it's something you can do and something that even I can probably achieve but before we get all ‘holier than thou’, become arrogant ‘know-it-alls’, talking about it like everybody knows how to do it and accusing people of lies and inaccuracies let's just be aware of 'The concept of other people' here. Not everyone is as computer literate as you or I, Zoron; people have different levels of skills, patience, confidence and time. How many people do you think are going to look into what it takes to slipstream an up to date Windows CD and then think; "Screw that I'm just going to buy a new CD"?

My answer to that would be: QUITE A LOT.

Hence I believe that in my own opinion, Microsoft has not taken the consumer friendly path and have still encouraged product purchasing, just as they always have. That’s how business sense actually works and that’s one of the reasons why Microsoft is one of the richest corporations in the world. It’s clever, it’s brilliant and I admire them for it but it’s evil at the same time.

Lies-shmies and blatant inaccuracies my left buttock Zoron, you’re entitled to your own opinion and at the end of the day that’s all it is. If it’s one thing I can’t stand it’s people confusing their own opinions with the facts and automatically accusing any opposing opinions to be lies without giving it proper thought. BTW sorry I called you a Microsoft Fanboy, clearly some people can’t take a joke.

Message edited by shockwolf on 09-02-2008 at 06:53:04 PM

Reply to shockwolf

The files aren't backward compatible... if you save a file with Word 2007 (for example) in it's native format and try to open it with Word 2003... it ain't gonna happen. Many of the files updated by service packs aren't compatible with older versions from older service packs... it just doesn't work that way.

Besides, even without a slipstreamed CD... you STILL have the option of reloading Windows clean and then loading the service pack on afterward. MS is hardly doing this to "make more money"... since the service packs are provided free. You want to bitch about a company that makes you pay for OS updates, bitch at Apple. How many versions of OSX are there now? Could you upgrade to any of them for free?

Perhaps the OP didn't know about that option, but you obviously did... and it's YOUR "opinion" that I was rebutting... not the OP's and not simdude's. If he had inquired about the option, I would have told him right away that he's better off creating his own slipstreamed CD and linking him to the instructions to do so. However, it wasn't asked, and you simply make the assertion that MS wants to drain more money out of our pockets when, in truth, you can create your own CDs without spending a penny.

Now if you're making a joke... ha ha. Funny. Misleading others isn't funny, however. Did you stop to think that the person that doesn't know about slipstreaming (whom you so vehemently defend) might take your post seriously? No, I bet you didn't.

Your assertion was wrong. That's my only beef. If you want to take it elsewhere, that's up to you. If you didn't know that you could slipstream a service pack into a Windows install, then I apologize. Since you were attempting to assist, I thought that you would have known. Still doesn't mean you should jump down my throat for correcting your assertion.

Message quoted 1 times

------------------------------ Desktop: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit; Intel Q6600 CPU; E-VGA 780i SLI motherboard; E-VGA E-GeForce 8800GT; OCZ Vista 4GB dual-channel kit; Ultra X2 750W power supply; 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB in RAID 0. Laptop: Acer Aspire 8730-6314;
Reply to Zoron

Zoron wrote :

The files aren't backward compatible... if you save a file with Word 2007 (for example) in it's native format and try to open it with Word 2003... it ain't gonna happen. Many of the files updated by service packs aren't compatible with older versions from older service packs... it just doesn't work that way.

Yes, I realise what you are saying but what I am trying to say is that it may not have to be that way. Word 2007 also has the option to save in older formats. Now, ‘there’ is an example of MS being backwards compatible! And by the way Word 2007 is not word 2003 with a service pack to make it Word 2007, it’s a different piece of software entirely as is Windows XP and Vista are different OS’s all together. Windows XP Pro SP1 and Windows XP Pro SP 3 are still the same OS. The difference is that one has a higher level of updates. If I update my Office 2000 I can still run a scan and repair task using the old CD without having to slipstream a new one. So why can’t Windows XP be the same?

I suppose if I told you that Microsoft were not being backwards compatible by making Direct X 10 only available on Vista you would say the same thing? “The files are not compatible with Windows XP, it ain’t gonna happen”. Well guess what… It’s happened! Ever heard of the Alky Project? Yes, a third party has made Direct X 10 backwards compatible for Windows XP, which proves it can be done. So you see I believe it is simply that Microsoft choose not to make certain things backwards compatible when they know it makes them more money not to do so. Direct X 10 is one of, if not only the major selling points in Vista to attract the gamers so it would be a bad business move to allow Direct X 10 to function on older systems.

Zoron wrote :

Besides, even without a slipstreamed CD... you STILL have the option of reloading Windows clean and then loading the service pack on afterward. MS is hardly doing this to "make more money"... since the service packs are provided free. You want to bitch about a company that makes you pay for OS updates, bitch at Apple. How many versions of OSX are there now? Could you upgrade to any of them for free?

To be honest I’ve never used or would intend to use an Apple based system so why would I want to bitch about them? If I remember correctly, I think I was bitching about Microsoft making our old CD’s obsolete and us being left to purchase or (now to my knowledge so it seems) make our own CD’s.

Zoron wrote :

Perhaps the OP didn't know about that option, but you obviously did... and it's YOUR "opinion" that I was rebutting... not the OP's and not simdude's. If he had inquired about the option, I would have told him right away that he's better off creating his own slipstreamed CD and linking him to the instructions to do so. However, it wasn't asked, and you simply make the assertion that MS wants to drain more money out of our pockets when, in truth, you can create your own CDs without spending a penny.

Yeah, with 3rd party practices because Microsoft have not made it an authentic task and yes I believe they do want to drain more money out of our pockets. It’s a business and in reality that’s what businesses do... MAKE MONEY! Bleed the consumer dry… Or maybe they just create products just to make us all happy? Yeah, maybe that’s why Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the world? He never wanted to make money off of us all, he just happened to get rich making us all these wonderful products! Why didn’t I think of that?

Zoron wrote :

Now if you're making a joke... ha ha. Funny. Misleading others isn't funny, however. Did you stop to think that the person that doesn't know about slipstreaming (whom you so vehemently defend) might take your post seriously? No, I bet you didn't.

Well as it happens I can honestly say that I knew nothing about Slipstreaming until you mentioned it, however Google is a powerful tool for doing a bit of research as I am sure you are aware. You’re worried that people might take my post seriously? No need for that when someone jumps in afterwards with a half cooked solution claiming that everything I have said is a lie and or wrong. If you are worried about people’s views on Microsoft wanting to make more money off us all then I don’t think people need my help. I think people are quite capable of forming their own opinions on the matter. It’s not like Microsoft have much competition anyway and if they did they’d probably just buy it.

Zoron wrote :

Your assertion was wrong. That's my only beef. If you want to take it elsewhere, that's up to you. If you didn't know that you could slipstream a service pack into a Windows install, then I apologize. Since you were attempting to assist, I thought that you would have known. Still doesn't mean you should jump down my throat for correcting your assertion.

Your apology is accepted. However I believe I should have made the reasoning’s for my ‘assertion’ quite clear by now and my opinion still stands.

I think agreeing to disagree may be the only option here.

Message edited by shockwolf on 09-03-2008 at 12:28:41 AM

Reply to shockwolf

DX9 shouldn't be causing your problems... but SP3 very well could be. Here are the instructions for slipstreaming:

http://www.tacktech.com/display.cfm?ttid=295

I would make a slipstreamed SP2 CD and reinstall Windows using it. Then, perform all of the Windows updates except SP3. See if you have the same issues. If you do, then there is some sort of hardware issue... that's the onlyl other explanation.

------------------------------ Desktop: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit; Intel Q6600 CPU; E-VGA 780i SLI motherboard; E-VGA E-GeForce 8800GT; OCZ Vista 4GB dual-channel kit; Ultra X2 750W power supply; 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB in RAID 0. Laptop: Acer Aspire 8730-6314;
Reply to Zoron

I got a shedload of stuff on that computer that I can't backup or move because of the explorer crashing when I try that. Experimenting with different clean installs isn't exactlly an option here.

As soon as and if I'll manage to find a way to stop the mindless crashing, even temporary, just to allow me to move my indispensable files somewhere else, then I'll format the sucker without giving it a second thought. But until then, I'm stuck whining about it on windoze help forums.

It just crossed my mind to use something else to move my files around like Total Commander or something, but I doubt it'll work since that too uses the windows core features to manage files around. :pfff:

Reply to simdude

Do you have access to another computer or another hard drive? If you had another working computer, it would be easy to back up everything you needed. If you had another hard drive, you could then experiment with different SP levels. I agree... it's a pain in the @$$... but you don't have a lot of alternatives.

------------------------------ Desktop: Windows 7 Professional 64-bit; Intel Q6600 CPU; E-VGA 780i SLI motherboard; E-VGA E-GeForce 8800GT; OCZ Vista 4GB dual-channel kit; Ultra X2 750W power supply; 2 x Seagate Barracuda 7200.11 500GB in RAID 0. Laptop: Acer Aspire 8730-6314;
Reply to Zoron

I do have another working computer and I also have two hard drives inside the one that's gone bad.

Reply to simdude

If I use Total Commander insted of windows Explorer to manage files around it doesn't crash anymore. It's something within the exporer that's causing all the trouble.

Reply to simdude

For me, the only solution was a complete format and Windoze reinstall.

Reply to simdude

Hate to say I told ya so.

Like I also say, you should invest in copy of Drive Image for creating an image of your freshly installed healthy system, NTI Shadow for backing up your files and a USB drive.

It will save you all of the ball-ache and time wasting next time something like this happens.

Reply to shockwolf

Try adding explorer.exe to the data execution prevention. That should fix this problem I think.
Anyone tried this?

Reply to skuludo

Try this. Fixed this for me.
http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/fo [...] 92292.html

Reply to mikedrmfs

Forum Windows XP : Windows XP General Discussion - Windows Explorer keeps crashing, taking Dr. Watson with it.

Please mind