another reason i hate mac - Page 2

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oh they ship it for free, how nice of them

@AlexisV: you do realize there are real cases and stylised designs out there that don't look like a 12 year olds idea gone wrong aka

Have you never seen something like the antec p180 or the thermaltake soprano DX (no window)? they are stylish and won't date, the p180 won't date because it is plain and modest, will fit in anywhere because it is humble, the thermaltake soprano DX won't date either because of the curves and the good paint job. so, before you make a stupid point about the looks of a pc, do some research.

Also, with your analogy to cars, that is slightly incorrect, the analogy should be more like, an apple computer is a Peugeot and a PC is a skyline. The Peugeot is slow, and semi stylish and most importantly white, but all the rich people have them, they are of fairly good build quality and fill the little black spot in the heart of soulless rich people. The Skyline on the other hand is large, but sporty and quick, and you can tune it up as much as you want, they are generally cheap and can look like a 12 year olds dream or like a drivers car, the chassis if of great quality but can have 3rd party bits added, which you choose the quality of.

I think you meant $1200.

No DDR2 stick will get lower timings than 3-3-3-9 some has even lower timings but it just cannot touch DDR1's 2-2-2-5 standrad at all. In the DDR1 world the fastest out were 1.5-2-2-5.

And the new Macs and Mac Pros out there don't overclock much

Yeah, Sorry I meant $1200 (skipped 1 )

And I was just kidding with the latency stuff, I know they will NOT get that low, I was just saying (kidding) that because of the price.

I think i will just ignore you as i see you like to do that to common sense. While i think macs are beautiful pieces of machinery, that's all they are and nothing more.

it depends on what we talk about

I dont think u can compare gaming in mac as it is better with xpsp2 as well as comparing photoshoping is better in mac than xpsp2

I heard a great analogy of cars to computers. PCs are cars that get you from point A to point B. Macs are cars that get you from point A to point B but they look awesome. Sadly they break down just as often, but cost twice as much. And then there are these guys building tanks in there garage that they give away for free. linux

I have a Mac laptop and a PC desktop, and have to say they both naff me off from time to time.

I bought a Mac wanting to like it, and I do, but it's not the panacea for your computing ills that Apple's marketers would have you believe. For every Windows irritation, OS X has something just as irritating up its sleeve.

I hate the way installing/uninstalling software causes SOOOO-muccchhh-slowdown over the course of a couple of years on Windows. To the point where you have to reformat the drive to get your system sorted.

Then, after you've reformatted, you realise that you've lost the driver disk for your network card , and can't connect to the internet to download hundreds of MBs of patches for XP!!! WHAT?? Why won't you just work!!?!?! Stupid machine. This would never happen on a Mac.

Okay, Macs also suffer some slowdown over the years, but nowhere on the scale of PCs.

HOWEVER.....

I'm Steve Jobs, come use my nice shiny applications. BTW, you must only use them in exactly the way I tell you.

You must never search with anyone other than Google.com (and now Yahoo.) google.co.uk for example is strictly forbidden.

In fact, because you choose to live outside the USA, you must bend over and lube up - you will not be allowed to buy at US$ prices, you must pay far more. And I am still going to cripple some of the features your American brothers have.

You will not be allowed all sorts of useful and free plugins for Safari, like Firefox users have.

You must subscribe to my overpriced, under performing DotMac service. If you create a website in iWeb, I will only let you upload it to DotMac. Otherwise you'll need to get some extra FTP software.

If you want a desktop machine for less than £1700, you must buy an iMac. In three years when you want a new machine, you must bin a perfectly good screen, or get a bigger house to fit another computer.

Apple's lock you in, my way or the highway approach to computing really grates with me. Steve Job's continual assertions that we produce the "best ***browser/jukebox/hardware/vibrators*** in the world" winds me up. By what quantifiable measurement do you make that assertion, Steve :?:

However, I do not agree that Apple's hardware is a total rip-off or even overpriced. You have to judge it based on it's intended competition. Obviously you can get a basic PC for a few hundred $/£. Apple aren't playing in that market. $ for $ I think their machines are a match for any equivalent PC, eg. Sony Vaio.

That's not really the point I was getting at.

The simple act of trying out pieces of software and then uninstalling them, leaves rubbish on your hard drive which can never be gotten rid of (short of reformatting.) It also bloats the registry, causing Windows to load slower. Registry cleaners can help to an extent, but they never catch everything.

A couple of years is what it seems to take for me to notice real slowdown kicking in. However, you could reproduce the effect within a couple of months if you made it your mission to just install and uninstall as many pieces of software as possible. It has nothing to do with hardware age.

My Mac, which is 2 1/2 years old now, still boots up as quick as it ever did and I run plenty of new software on it.

The fact these utilities exist amplifies his point even more.

Both are good and both can be very irritating, so can we stop with the junk about Mac users are soulless and how PC users don't know of great designs? Geez, it's like you have to beat the other one down to make yourself feel better. If you feel the need to bash the other (in general here, not a specific problem that is occurring), then it makes it immediately clear who has the psychological issue.

We need to tell Steve Jobs that no one needs to buy Mac's - second thought he can count the amount of people that own a Mac on two fingers.

lol, yeah, i'm not very eloquent when typing, it's just me being me...

and my car analogy? well, there are a few things about it that i prefer over yours, differentiates the type of people who buy the products a bit better, mine also shows that with one product you have more of a role with it than the other, it shows 2 things in the same price range but differing performance levels and mine also shows that there is different uses for each.

Ps, i don't see how your point was illustrated by my counterpoint... I gave 2 examples which could be considered stylish in 2 different ways and your point was that they generally weren't... it also means you have the choice of how it looks, so it can conform to your tastes or your situation.

PPs, Yeah i know that, and i Hope it looks reasonably good because some of your reasoning as to why macs supposedly can be more suitable is heavily weighted on looks.

PPPs, everything looks good in the right place at the right time, unfortunately, a large amount of that place and time is at the rubbish dump.

PPPPs - kill me, i sound like a apocalyptic preacher of doom, or a tool.

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/apple.php

also a good one

I just don't like Macs because you can't build your own. I have been building my new PC for over a year, (buying parts as I can afford them) So I simply could not afford a Smac. (not a misprint). I love building PC's I just finished Upgrading my son's to a C2D E6420, from an Athlon 2800+, kept the same box, Monitor keyboard mouse and speakers. (Try that with a smac)

*sigh*

You people really miss the point. You're comparing apples and oranges here.

Macs are not 95% incompatible with software out there, they are 100% compatible with software that they are intended to be used with.

As a multimedia professional I must use both and I do so freely. I love both and I hate both. I don't care what Steve Jobs will try to convince you, but Macs are not designed or intended to be every day computers. They started life as development machines for the creative community and that will always be their primary focus. And as a tool designed for a specific use, they are always going to be more expensive than a general-use machine configured to do the same job.

That's why Silicon Graphics workstations are more expensive than a high-spec PC with 3D Studio for example.

Yes, if you buy a Mac just for surfing and home stuff like photo albums, home videos and the iLife shit then you're either a Steve Jobs groupie, have far too much cash, a sucker for "pretty things" or just plain foolish, but as it's been pointed out Macs are primarily geared to the US market where they are fairly competitive price-wise.

Macs only ended up going the design-aesthetic route when the anti-beige PC voice started gathering volume - old Macs were just as square and boring - yes it's a gimmick but at the time it was something new, and is now part of the Mac brand and ethos.

Macs aren't intended to be upgraded because they are stand-alone develoment workstations, but the specific, Apple-approved hardware list ensures that they are, for the most part, more stable and reliable because of fewer variables to consider in the software/OS development.

PCs are designed from a totally different standpoint and have always been modular, which is their strength but also their biggest downfall. How bloated and cumbersome is Windows? How many hardware and driver conflicts do we see? Chrsit THG only recently reported on Raptor drives and NVIDIA cards not working on Vista because of some crazy conflict in specific set-ups. macs do not have this problem.

I could go on, but at the end of the day nobody listens because of close-minded fanboy or hater mentality.

If you've never used a Mac then STFU you have no clue what you're talking about. If you've never used a PC then STFU and try seeing through Steve Job's bullshit once in a while (he's just as bad as Bill gates - never forget this). If you use both then join me in loving and hating both.

And if you're really hung up about Macs not being "compatible" with software, just install Windows on a Mac and be done with it.

I game, and I have Office 2003 installed on my Mac with OSX Tiger. So ha.

Back on track, try out TigerDirect of MacMall or Newegg for some cheaper mac memory. I just found 4 gb of dual channel DDR2 PC5400 mac memory for $500. I think that price in the Apple store is a typo because if you upgrade to 2gb when you order a mac it is only $250.

only $200 lol

Don't buy the RAM from Apple, you pay through the nose for it. But you can use third party RAM in Macs.

Love them or hate them, you have to admire the marketing team at Apple.

What other company in the world does so well at taking both software and hardware that somebody else's makes, pretties it up, adds a few pretty pictures, bumps up the price and then convinces so many people that it's somehow twice as good and that's why is twice as dear.



Well they didn't get this little black duck

I SAY GO FOR IT, A BARGAIN PRICE FOR TWO GIGS LOW-SPEED MEMORIES
AND WITH THAT FREE SHIPPING IS EVEN MORE TEMPTING.

What you say about MAC's used to be the case. However, today they are pretty much the same systems with different OS's(MAC's and PC's). The only big difference today is the OS and the limited number of componets you can use with a MAC in order to ensure stability. As far as the software for editing and such, you can get equally powerful software on either of the platforms. I would prefer linux though, secure and free. I don't care much for paying AAPL for the overpriced hardware just so I could do the exact same thing as I could do on a PC. Obviously, different OS's and different software, but same results from that software. Follow me?

wes

You CAN do that, but you shouldn't HAVE to. Okay, so you consider yourself a power user, who likes to reformat every few months - and if that makes you happy then more power to you.

However, as someone who sees a computer as tool, not an end in itself, I think it is more than reasonable to expect that you might get basic level of functionality from basic hardware, straight from the OS install disk. It's not like a network card is some rare and exotic component.

It's not a question of being right and wrong. The whole thrust of my post was that I use both and find there to be plenty of annoyances with both.

This whole debate is such a snoozefest, and is so often argued by people who have no meaningful experience of the platform they berate.