New Gaming Computer. Vista or XP? - Page 2

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Winrot, it has been a couple of months since you posted this question. Since that time, riser has seen fit to make it a 'stickie', of all things. The only reaons I can see for doing so, is to basically KILL the thread, but I would rather see it die from its own accord instead of taking up one of the 'top' three slots in the general view (hint: riser, unstickie this and the 'patches' ones, please - let them die the ugly death). It is time for fresh blood on top...

--DD

The reason this thread was made a sticky was due to the fact that every other post on the first page was this exact same question being asked over and over and over again. It was hoped that making one thread a sticky would prevent others from making more threads asking the same question.

Zoron is right (and I do hate to admit it), your stickie is serving the better good. I just hate when I click it by mistake and then have to wait for the load...

Winrot, you are truly famous throughout the world!

Nothing ever really dies here...

Hey Zoron, did you ever get an answer to Msg 1? It looks like it was never answered.

--DD

You're guud!

I just searched 'software' and only one 'P5WD2-E' post popped up! I guess if the right peeps want it to die, some things can happen! Whatever...

--DD

How many people in this thread who are saying "NO VISTA THERES NO POINT! GAMES RUN BETTER ON XP!" are actually using vista?

i am a gamer, i have upgraded to Vista as i was offered a free copy of the X64 Business version from a friend.

i have not had a problem with a single game, and in some cases they run smoothing IMHO.

Im sorry, but no matter what way you look at it vista is a GOOD OS. "its just copying OSX", "there are so many compatibility problems"(i havnt actually found that many, the only thing i havnt been able to get is peerguardian which a vista version of should be released soon anyway)

Vista is a Very good OS.. sure its going to have some teething problems but there is a service pack coming soon.

if you are building a new computer, dont be an idiot and just go with Vista.. why buy a dying OS?

Ha ha! In the case of DX10...the hardware came first. But which version of DX10 did they build it for?

Hi

At the end of the day 64 bit operating systems will be the way to go - whats the point of running a 32 bit os on a 64 bit chip.

The trouble here is compatability - most if has been compiled in a 32 bit compiler and not a 64 bit on.

Some games are though like Riddick - Escape from Butchers Bay is one of the few that contains 64 bit and 32 bit code.

Search on Google for 64 bit compatible games.

Steam automatically updates to 64 bit when the right os has been detected and most games seem to work but I hasten to add not all will, nor will all hardware because it has to be re compiled and to be honest there have been quite a few hardware manufacturers that have gone bust so that old Artec scanner you have you willl have to recycle it as a door stop.

There is a "Compatability" mode in 64 bit but how "Compatible" it is knowing Microsoft - anyone knows.

I went for a 32bit os now becuase of compatability and when in mainstreem the 64 bit will shine - 16gbs of ram - how obscene.

Windows Vista has played all the games that i want to play so far and there a site dedicated to it. Search on google - windows vista compatible games and there are some work around for some others and some just wont play ball.

I run Vista and XP on a dual boot system and it works fine.


By the time 64 bit is in everyones pc I bet 128 bit processors will be released and we will be back where we started. 32 core 128 bit chips are not a underestimation - it will happen.


Hope this helps


Hellboy.

Get the film on DVD its excellent.

Watch out with the Vista OEM's...the EULA states that if you upgrade your motherboard you have to repurchase the license (different from XP). If you have the retail version of Vista you can migrate it from motherboard to motherboard at your preference. I'm still going with an OEM of Vista since you can afford to buy it twice before the retail becomes more cost effective. Anyway...just FYI.

xp should of been a pure 64 bit os given all the new driver requirements. However, its not which means that new driver need to written for 32 bit verison as well as 64 biit version. Most hardware will not work with 64 bit version. To me, this is just stupid (to have a 32 bit vista) as obvious choice for now is to stick with xp until the problems with the 64 bit version of vista is worked out. This is not to mention the slow file copy problems which many are experiencing as well as the fact that some critical software does not work with vista. I was promoting the dx-10 concept of vista under this topic in prior posts, but now have to back track and say that dx-10 is not all the dream that was promised and offers little benefit over dx-9 based on current performance tests. I am not saying that projected or future potential has been reached with dx - 10; but just wonder if its not better to invest in a lower budget xp computer that offers the same performance as a high priced vista computer with a dx-10 card that might be outdated by the time any real benefit of dx-10 is realized.

The only difference is that you pay a lot more for hardware with vista to get same or lessor performance (ie: more ram, dx-10 video card (which has yet to have any clear advantage), etc). Also, some of your existing hardware such printers, camera, scanner, etc may be broken by vista and also have to be upgraded adding more expense. You also need vista home premium or ultimate to get all the eye candy or to do the some of the same things as you could with xp home edition; this adds even more costs.

hey dsharp0000 I'm not sure you are right with your claim... I can buy an HP 2G a6100y desktop (w/all kinds of additional bells and whistles), a 17" HP LCD wide-screen monitor, HP inkjet printer, AND Vista Home Premium for less than $600 (it includes a full 2 yr in-home HP extended warranty). I can actually dummy-down this system and get it quite a bit cheaper (-$30 for going back to Vista Home Basic; -$28 for a 15" LCD HP monitor; -$60 for 1G), but why?.

Now I've been around for a while and really I do not remember seeing a 2 Gig XP desktop with ink-jet printer and 17" lcd (or analog) monitor with a credible 2yr in-home warranty for anywhere near $600.

Dsharp9000, do you know of any good systems that will support your noise or is it just more of the same bs that you have become famous for?

You really do not need to start a new thread about the differeneces between retail and oem copies of Vista, just do a search for OEM. I am sure you will find more than 50 right here in TomsHardware.com.

good luck on your search!

Joker,

If no one else will voice the concerns with vista, then I will. I'm sorry if it makes me unpopular; but i dont care. I just want the problems fixed. The cost for the computer you mention leaves out many things such as with xp I could get a lot more bells and whistles and get much better performance at lessor cost. Also, the additional monitor and printer is not important as I have software, high speed printers, camera, scanners, etc and other things that will not work with vista and would cost many more thousands of dollars to replace or upgrade with no real benefit to my business. Its also interesting that home premium would not work for me with vista as I now need to have vista business or ultimate to do the same things that I could do with xp ; yet another hidden cost (this is somewhat disturbing trend as i need access to a lot business applications at home; yet need most expensive version to access these applications). There are also other problems such as with file viewing in vista under a directory format with large thumb nails appearing that are real annoying but am not going to go into here (if you are a user of vista you will know what i am talking about). I have found that opus 9 is away around this problem; but again adds another hidden cost. With that said, I am encouraged by the recent report that there is an update that might fix atleast some of these problems. Look at my recent post in forum. Just hope i'm not jumping the gun with promoting this update in the forum; but am giving it a benefit of a doubt.

Kind of a somewhat off-topic question but:

If I just built a new computer (q6600, 8800gts, 2 gigs RAM, yada yada..), and could get Vista Business through my school for free, should I go for it? Or should I fork out the cash for a different version or even Windows XP? Future proofing is certainly a concern for me.

Toosly:

If you can get it free, go for it. If worse comes to worse and you find you don't like it... you can always sell it and use the money to purchase XP.

When I built my new PC I went with Vista Ultimate and loaded 64 bit. I am even running the original Baldur's Gate (not even in compatibility mode) with no issues. I did not see a reason for buying XP and then Vista at a later point - it works out quite expensive. The only hardware I couldn't get a driver for from the manufacturer was for Razer Boomslang mouse...It's a ball mouse anyway - so it was no major loss...

one question i have with regards to the dx10 game "lost planet", is that i dont think it really exists other than "demo" or if it does it offers little enhancement over what we are getting with dx9. Also there is talk of dx10.1 -- what happens to your dx10 video card if dx 10.1 becomes the standard. Personally, until something comes out other than a "demo" that shatters what i can do with xp. i see no reason to move..

vista all the way.....

Manuals are overrated anyway... if you've used Windows XP, you'll know how to use Windows Vista. MS doesn't radically change the functionality of its OS... just the look.

Support? Hardly anyone I know calls MS for support anyway. On the few occasions that I've contacted MS tech support via email... they have always been extremely helpful and they always followed up to make sure I had the problem resolved.

i Still Stick With Xp for an gameing rig Vista does not offer an + unless you want DX10 maybe an little more secruity for Norm users who do not know how to use an pc (but the security ends once thay ignore the UAC msg and click ok/allow then the Vista needs an format and reload)

Vista
takes longer for vista to boot up
if you not got 2-4 hdds in RAID 0 pc going to be boged down untill superfetch has cached up
you realy should use 3gb/4gb ram for Vista gameing to be lag/jumpy free
you Must keep on top of updates (but windows does give option driver updates via windows updates)
you need an PC that is 10% faster then XP pc to get the same performance as xp in vista
ALot of older devices do not work that are Very commen that should of been apart of vista setup (that are Plug in play with no internet on XP ant on Vista)

{{{MS doesn't radically change the functionality of its OS... just the look}}}

got to be kiddin thay chaged alot to confuse alot of users (first queston pops into mind where add and remove programs heh/next queston why is my network not working) Vista get there some day but maybe after SP2

the Bug with DX9 and WDDM should be rels as an Important update as well
http://forums.ngemu.com/software-d [...] otfix.html
and
Welcome to AnandTech.com [ Article: A Messy Transition: Practical Problems With 32bit Addressing In Windows]
Welcome to AnandTech.com [ Article: A Messy Transition (Part 2): Windows XP, Vista, and the 2GB Barrier]
Welcome to AnandTech.com [ Article: A Messy Transition (Part 3): Vista Buys Some Time] << this one is about the patch other ones are related to it (part one and two good read)

I have had Vista installed for months, At first I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread , in other words I believed the hype. Then one day I woke up and realised, I had unknowingly down graded my PC by installing Vista, apart from pretty graphic and a few bells and whistles plus problems Vista is a useless bloatware and totally unnecessary. I have now gone back to XP which may not be as pretty as Vista but out performs Vista in performance and reliability. When you buy Vista all you do is buy into problems and line MS pockets, they would have been better bringing forward XP sp3, Vista is a dog.

maybe but i got Vista and XP dual booting and Vista sucks an little
only problem i still have is Sond crackling when useing mic

i may get used to it but problems are still there things just do not work as fast as XP

Winrot, you do what ever you think is best for you. I myself am staying with XP for at least a little bit longer. I don't have anything against Vista, It seems to work pretty good, the few times that I've used it, keep in mind I don't yet have a PC with Vista, so I've not had nearly as much time with it as some other people on this forum. The reason why I'm staying with XP a little bit longer is because I'm waiting for some more of the bugs to be worked out, and I don't really see any need to jump right into it. XP still works fine for me, and I know that it will work with the PC games that I like to play. That being said, this time next year I think that almost every new game will require Vista. So I think it all comes down to this, do you want to go with Vista now, deal with a few little problems, and not have to upgrade next year, or do you want to go with XP now, know that most of the games will work, and not mass with Vista until next year it's your call.

For those that are building a new gaming machine, I will recommend the best 2 scenarios according to what kind of gamer you are and how deep your pockets are.

Scenario 1 - You'll only settle for the high resolution + max graphics on a widescreen monitor (AND you have deep pockets).

Recommendation:
Get yourself a dual boot Windows XP 32 bit and Windows Vista 64 bit. XP will allow you to have a fallback in case vista doesn't work out for you. Vista on the other hand will provide you with some eye candies especially with titles such as Crysis and many other titles coming up in 2008.

Reasoning:
Windows Vista 64 bit will take full advantage of the new Quad Processors and therefore will process threads much faster for an overall good performance value. Upcoming big titles (2008 titles) will take advantage of multicore processing...especially when calculating advanced physics and AI in a game. However, when purchasing your components such as sound card, network card (or adapter) and so on, you will have to not only look at price and performance but COMPATIBILITY. This would be my biggest issue with Vista-64. Today, many components don't run at their full potential because their provider did not write Vista 64 bit drivers and in some cases, the components are simply not compatible with Vista-64, or are forced to be run under the 32-bit simulator in Vista. The simulator DOES slow performance a lot which explains why people find their PC soooo sloooow in Vista-64…but is semi-compatible I guess.

Windows XP 32 bit is the best Gamers OS today. Stable, makes your last generation PC look fast and all drivers and software compatible. Nonetheless, it’s the OS to fall back to should you have issues with 64-bit of Vista.

-------------------------

Scenario 2 - You wish you had 2000$+ to spend on a PC for the next generation but you don't (Using 17" or 19" monitor).

Recommendation:
Stick with Windows XP 32-bit and us it as your main OS. If you dual boot then get Windows Vista 32-bit as it is indeed a pretty good OS and is somewhat stable for new components. Keep in mind that I am not referring to older components because that would be a whole new story!

Reasoning:
XP will most likely be your main OS and the software developers do come up with some pretty good graphics under DX 9 compatible games (which is pretty much every game until very late next year or more). On the other hand, Vista 32-bit will take good advantage of your Dual Core CPU and is more “driver support friendly” than his big brother, Vista 64-bit.

Scenario 1 - Hardcore PC

Nota 1: When building your machine, check and make sure that every component you are buying has drivers available in Vista 64-bit usually found on the producer's official support website. For instance, I had a pretty hard time finding a simple USB Wiresless Network adapter that held Vista-64 bit drivers. I, on the other hand, don’t have any networking issues like many I have seen in this forum.

Nota 2: Vista Ready is only a marketing scam and does not necessarily mean that drivers are available in Vista 64-bit. So make sure you have downloadable drivers FOR 64-bit.

Scenario 2 - High-End PC

Nota 1: If you use XP-32 bit as your main OS, don't waste money on even the cheapest Quad CPU as it will not use it even near to its potential. Buy a much better dual core and you will get equal to better results.

Nota 2: General rule: AMD CPUs and ATI Videocards are cheaper but will provide less performance than the equivalent in Intel CPUs and Nvidia Videocards which are much more expensive. I recommend comparing products with Tomshardare benchmarks and similar sites to find the best price-performance value according to your budget.

Finally, if you have the cash to burn then go big. Who wants to build a gaming PC that would only last a year? Well many of us don't play the Crysis games and will settle with less power hungry games such as HL2. So it all comes down to what kind of gamer you are (or will be for the next year).

Hope this helps!

i even wouldnt consider xp
thats, when u want a computer that isnt a total joke in the future year

cmon, only vista supports directx10 and its a total wast of money to buy a 8800gt and afterwards letting it drive under xp with directx9