Ballmer cries... "me vista is not selling" - Page 2

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I somewhat agree. I find that when I talk to Joe average about it I get that they've heard a little about it and either:

They want to know if its worth it, to which I tell them the truth, which for their needs is usually no.
They want to know if they need it, which unless they are hardcore gamers I always say no.
They already have an opinion about whether they want it or not, which is usually that they will get it when it comes with their next upgrade, but that they are not planning on doing anything special to get it.

This is just from personal experience mind you, not a generalization.

As for businesses, I don't know of any adopting it now, though I know its getting harder to get XP PCs from Dell. I think it will be the end of the year at lease before they start looking at it.

A little dramatic, eh? People have been saying the world is getting more difficult to live in for hundreds of years. Rich get richer and poor get poorer. Guess that's why the USA is the only country where a higher percentage of poor are obese than any other.. and it's only getting worse. At least we're not starving. Pitch the $5/day smoking habit, $50/week alcohol habit, and extra $50/week food habit and poverty wouldn't be as bad of an issue. Reduce the amount of kids you're having that you can't afford, and quit buying wheels more expensive than your car. Show up to work on a daily basis and work hard, and you will move up the ladder. Apathy is the problem. Social issues are of concern on this topic more than how much MS charges for Vista, or where money for PS3s and foreign cars go. That's insignificant compared to the pot/coke money the poor (as well as the middle/rich) shovel in the direction of central America every year.You must be a republican! Our kids, kids, kids will be paying for Iraq. The current US National Debt is $8,752,975,789,775.03. This does not account for the trade deficit that is well over $764 billion. Most Americans are poor or becoming poor. Computers are great tools and even better at killing time. I'm active w/ other parents in my community and politically active locally. The statistics say that property taxes are up nationally. Americans in general have less money to work with. The US imports most things including energy and now food. Most chips are imported. All of that goes to the trade deficit. You can argue any point you want but with boots on the ground things like Vista go on hold. By the way Joe Blow might be fibbing!

Let's see.. I promote putting your money on foreign products like PS3s and foreign cars, and you label me Republican? That kind of statement only comes from a far left liberal.. not a moderate like myself.. and it's people like you that make the Democrat party look like fools. Thankfully, some of us in the party are actually reasonable and honest about problems in our society that aren't faults of the rich or the system (and yes, SOME faults are due to the system in place). Like the Intel vs AMD wars, I don't jump on a particular party's bandwagon through hell and high water. I pick the candidate/party/processor that has the best ideas and goals for the present and future, not out of party/company loyalty. I didn't vote for Bush or Kerry - they're both atrocious choices for leaders of our country, and both parties should be ashamed that's the selection they left the people with.

I never mentioned the Iraq war, and I think this administration is a complete 180 degrees of the typical Republican party concepts of small government (low government spending & low taxes). As a middle class American, I've been burned on past votes for office based on loyalty to a party (thanks Bush Sr. and Clinton for lying about tax plans and party policy..) I pray that both parties move forward with decent people who don't represent what both parties have been over the last decade. Let's see Obama vs McCain.. two respectable people compared to the offers over the last 20 years of elections.. and both are willing to stand up for what they believe in regardless of their party's push. Bush, Gore, Edwards, H. Clinton, Cheney, etc don't fit that bill.

This isn't a forum for politics so I'm not going to continue this conversation. It's just a shame when a nutbag liberal labels a moderate Democrat as a Republican.. now you're beginning to sound like Kerry. I'm done.. now go spout your hatred for this country somewhere other than THG.. there are plenty of other forums for that.You’re talking about smoking, drinking, drugging and other social issues that are never good. Of all things I mentioned the war and you posted all about items that get the sin tax. Grow up. You suggest you’re a DEM and deny that you’re a REPUB. I called you that to get you to take a stand on the idea that the Iraq war is a factor in sales of consumer goods in the US. You talk about cutting back on food expenses LOL. I talk about possible food shortages and energy shortages and you want to combat that with sin and food management.

Should someone ask about reasons why a given product’s sales slump and one of the responses is that the war and the reasons for that war are hurting the economy and this is a factor in the falling GNP. Unemployment has made an upturn. Energy costs are up (or have you not noticed). Now from you we get a, "You should not have that many kids!" Thanks for the advice though I was not asking for it. Like being on a jury voting is a civic responsibility. Regardless of party your action by declining to do your duty shows that you are irresponsible!

You brought up what the REAL issues are in your state of mind and at the moment the WAR trumps all of that. You do sound like some of the Republicans I know but since you’re a Dem that is just as bad. Shame on you!

So, as entertaining as both of you have been, and I don't mean that in any sort of derogatory way since I understand the importance of everything you have been talking about, in truth it has very little to do with the topic at hand, other than "Butterfly Wings".

Butterfly Wings being the theory that a butterfly flapping its wings on the Sahara can affect a Hurricane in the Caribbean. Thus everything has an effect on everything else.

I think there are many more important factors in the low sales of Vista. The rising costs of energy (both electricity and motor fuels) DO contribute as mentioned before. But so does the quality of the product, the quality of its leading competitor (in this case XP, which is more than sufficient for most peoples needs), the mediocre rate of PC sales lately, peoples worries about DRM, a general disillusionment with Microsoft by technology enthusiasts, etc. Can we please try to shift this discussion back to the topic at hand? As much as I enjoy talking politics, this is not a political forum.

I understand, I wasn't complaining so much as trying to steer the discussion back on topic. I am very interested in what people's thoughts on this topic are, especially Ballmer's overbearing arrogance.

I have seen the 120 day trial options, along with the other "2099 crack" and such, and honestly, I just haven't bothered to try to procure a long term copy, purchased or otherwise.

I have two AIW cards, a 9800 Pro and an x1900. I currently have Vista on the 9800 Pro box, and it does NOT work in Vista out of box. I havent yet tried any alternatives, a I have been trying to get it to work on Ubuntu first. The solution at Hexus seems like it will work, I haven't tried it. I don't have any plans of letting Vista anywhere near my x1900 machine ATM.

As for two cards, I have a cross fire board, and from what I've read, I think when I upgrade, I can put the AIW in the second PCI-e Slot and use it just for TV in, while I use another card from primary. I haven't tried this yet, so I don't know if it will work.

Exactly. I do think that another huge thing holding people back is that although there were problems with the 98 to XP upgrade, there was both a visible difference, and a visible and tangible improvement in the quality of the OS.

I do not think people see that here with the XP to Vista path (there is a visible difference, but they don't see the improvement), and I think that will hurt sales.

Also, for all their bluster about this being the biggest launch ever, MS hasn't pushed Vista nearly as much as XP or Xbox 360. Have you seen their commercials? They are horrible! They don't even really show the OS, so nobody knows what its all about. I think MS has done a very poor job of selling people on the idea that the upgrade is worth it, let alone that they need to upgrade for any reason.

Win98 was an unsecure, unstable pig (though not as bad as ME), and the upgrade to XP, after the initial issues were worked out, did a lot to fix those issues, especially stability. Most people are satisfied with the stability of XP (it is a good os), and to a lesser extent its security (for enthusiasts, its easy to secure). Those are people's biggest concerns with home computing, and now that people are reasonably satisfied, MS has to find a new way to sell Vista (hence DX10 forced upgrade).

So far I think they have failed miserably at it.

That sums up why there's no upgrade for me. To upgrade to vista and not have any of my work software running properly would bugger up my day :-)

Maybe another problem is that the only obvious selling point of Vista is to make things a bit prettier, that's not much of an incentive to upgrade.

I think for the home user buying a new pc (i.e. off the shelf from a store or dhell) there's no problem though. I do think people expect too much from ms os upgrades. I have a friend who still moans that his graphics program from win 3.1 doesn't work properly with xp!I sort of mentioned this in several posts in several threads... WHQL has a few problems. Devices that are part of the PMD like the video card must be WHQL. Since ATI and Nvidia are all that is left they pay a VIG to be part of the team and get "Digital Certification". Some ATI devices like the AIW can not get MMC to work since there is no TPM (chip for digital keys on the card). If you devloped a video card tonight you would have to PAY MS so that it would work. That payment would be add space on packaging like Play For Sure Within etc or a rough %. Check it out on the Devloper site.

Like I said before The Godfather is almost the same.
PAX