The DRM side of Vista

I'm glad to see that you took the effort to register here just to make the one post. Excellent contribution to the community. Well done.

I don't think you have enough history to be calling anyone a fanboy. That being said, I swear there was a thread on this before.

You couldn't cut and paste many more, because you haven't posted anything more yourself to reply to.

Have you actually used Vista and experienced what it can do now, and what it is capable of in the future.? Can yo explain why you registered if it was not to make a Vista bashing post? That wasn't joining for a discussion, it was joining with an agenda which hasn't shifted one bit apparently.

There's a big difference between clicking round the web looking for hysterical stories to actually using and understanding the software itself. To many day to day users who actually bother to keep their PC up to date and protected, the factors to update to Vista are not compelling. For enthusiasts and for those that game or use their PC for more than clicking a few links in Google, there are excellent reasons.

If you want to switch to Mac, go and buy one and post in their forums.

Hey Ninja,

I'm a relatively new poster, but a long time reader, and I just wanna say I really respect your contributions to this forums. All of your posts are informative, consice and factually correct. However, this Abyss guy really does seem to be a Vista fanboy. I've read three posts where somone has said somthing bad about Vista, (DRM stuff usually), and he is downright rude.

I have tried Vista, and I think it looks really good, and is more or less a pleasure to use. All the protection stuff, however, really criple the experience. I will have to stick with XP until someone smarter than me figures out how to run something like daemon, for example, so I can load images instead of searching for the cd to use software.

Ben

The_Abyss:

Really, you do not know anything about me and you do not know what you are talking about.

I would willing to go out on a limb and guess that you were still a gleam in your fathers eye when I was computing with good old MS DOS and OS2 using a 1200 baud modem to access the internet.

The compelling gaming features you talk about are way down the road as of this point in time and will not come to fruition until the drivers from Graphics card manufacturers are worked out if at all. It is simply too early to know for sure at this point and time because the current beta releases are crap.

NVIDIA and ATI both have revised their hardware Vista capable lists removing cards that will not work with the new MS Trusted Computing platform.

Most sound cards are paperweights at this point because MS DRM measures are trying to close the analog output and will not work at all unless you think 2 channel PCM stereo is OK for a $200 sound card that is supposed to be 7.1 capable and output Dolby Stereo. I have been able to get my Creative card to work with the KX project drivers for the time being.

I registered here after reading numerous posts by people that were asking about the DRM and other compromises in Vista and was amazed that people were handing out false or misleading information that Vista was Great which is not the case. What is amazing to me is people telling others that have not installed it on there own computers and are relying on articles by people like Paul Thurrott who never saw a MS product he did not like and make their living promoting MS products.

After reading numerous articles about the unprecedented EULA and DRM issues, I thought by joining the discussion we could have a lively discussion about the good and the bad.

Moreover, yes I have installed Vista RTM and it is being tested on another partition. I have a triple boot setup right now. I would not run Vista full time it at this point because it is not reliable enough yet, working drivers have not been published, and many of my favorite programs will not install in Vista like my Logitech MX-1000 mouse for example. AEC causes the BSOD when AEC is enabled with my Webcam because of MS DRM protection.

I do not have any hidden nefarious agenda other than to maybe help somebody from running out and spending 3 or 4 hundred dollars to be sorely disappointed with Vista that is not ready for prime time and probably will not be ready until SP1 or SP2-IMHO

MS will spend 500 million with the Vista WOW campaign to convince the public otherwise beginning on January 29.

So, I have had some nice exchanges here to date with other members and look forward to more.

Not once Have I said anything about switching to a Mac on this forum you must have me confused with somebody else.

I asked you once before in another thread if you worked for MS or derived your living from working with MS products and what may I ask, is your agenda?

No worries mate, apology accepted.

Like I said, I am not here with an agenda just very concerned with the unprecedented EULA and the DRM present in Vista.

Take a look at the DRM that is being implemented in Vista, I urge you to review this presentation given by Dave Marsh (Program Manager, Windows Media Technologies) at a private MS HEC conference.

According to someone that was present, he called windows users thieves until proved otherwise at the conference then put up slide #3.

I assume he meant Windows Validation when saying "proved otherwise".
http://download.microsoft.com/down [...] nHEC05.ppt

The picture of the computer user at the keyboard in slide #3 seems to represent what MS thinks of its personal PC customers and IMHO is why they have a huge disconnect with its customer base.

Since you were big enough to apologize, I retract my statement that you are a MS fanboy and look forward to discussing Vista with you on this forum.

:-)

Official Microsoft response:

http://windowsvistablog.com/blogs/ [...] swers.aspx

A quote from whisperycat from the blog:

"Let's not forget that Microsoft are also seeking to snuff out hobbyists and gain a level of control over the hardware with which Vista can be used.

http://boingboing.net/2006/01/30/m [...] censi.html

Quote :

"Monday, January 30, 2006. Yesterday, I spoke at a DRM conference in London. Just before me was the opening keynote, from Microsoft's Amir Majidimehr, Corporate VP of the Windows Digital Media Division, which oversees licensing and deployment of Microsoft's DRM. (snip) Microsoft's DRM requires that device makers pay Microsoft a license fee for each device that plays back video encoded with its system. it also requires every such vendor to submit to a standardized, non-negotiable license agreement that spells out how the player must be implemented. This contract contains numerous items that limit the sort of business you're allowed to pursue, notably that you may not implement a Microsoft player in open source software.

The bombshell was Amir's explanation of the reason that his employer charges fees to license its DRM. According to Amir, the fee is not intended to recoup the expenses Microsoft incurred in developing their DRM, or to turn a profit. The intention is to reduce the number of licensors to a manageable level, to lock out "hobbyists" and other entities that Microsoft doesn't want to have to trouble itself with. (end quote)

DRM is consumer friendly? I think not. Remember the days when hobbyists were the backbone of Windows uptakers?

Hobbyists the world over will soon be discovering Linux. Especially if they had no intention of watching premium content to begin with. Finding out they have to pay for it, and suffer its consequences regardless, should they buy a license for Vista, should seal the deal."

Probably they aren't sure exactly what is and what is isn't and are waiting for comercial Blu-Ray and HD-DVD drives to test it.

As long as people do not object to their fair use rights being taken away from them you are probably right.

My hope is that people will not be silent and do what ever they can to fight this nonsense. The time to object is now before it gets out of hand.

Just because the major corporations are trying to force this down our throats does not mean they can get away with it.

If you remember Intel tried this with CPU Id's a few years back and the outcry was what put a stop to it not to mention a few lawsuits that were successful about privacy. This is another attempt of implementing total control over your hardware.

My hope is that EFF lawsuits are successful and stop this in its tracks not to mention Ohio's pending anti-trust action with MS.

When 5-10 million consumers find out their brand new HD TV's will not play 1080p, that is when the shit will hit the fan. Hopefully the same will happen with PC users find their hardware will not play HD content.

There are more of us than there are people who want to this to succeed. I just hope everyone does not go out and buy this blindly supporting the cartels. If the Vista roll out is not a success they will have to curtail the use of DRM or suffer the consequence of wall street's ire about profits.

If Vista is successful with DRM embedded, what’s next?. hardware monitors to ensure the hardware is within OEM specifications to protect content owners rights. ex.. o/c cpus, graphic cards, memory... Far fetched? Maybe, who knows for sure……

Actually, since this is what I do for living, you should read some of the analyst reports on MS, stock symbol MSFT.

Microsoft made some pretty aggressive statements regarding the Vista roll out like expected to sell 200 million copies to be sold in the first 6 months. Last week the wall street journal and the NY times had articles on DRM and the implications of corporations not wanting to go through another upgrade cycle.

Concerns about DRM were one of the concerns raised by Wall Street Analysts. These guys are not as dumb as you think they are.