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I don't give a rats whisker if they took out Jimmy Hoffa, J.F.K., M.L.K. and Popa Doc all in the same day ! In fact, please quote me saying that I think AMD is the perfect company ! C'mon ! Give it you're best shot. What I quite specifically said was :

Well, we seem to have another person with reading and comprehension difficulties.

Before I "show" you where you said AMD was a perfect company, why dont you read the threads and show me where I accused you of saying that.
You wont be able to find such a statement, as I never said it.
Since you clearly havent bothered to read, yet are accusing me of that very sin, lets go back to where it started, and unfold the trend, shall we?

Yeah they should have committed bribery and extortion just as Intel has and then maybe the American public would have respected them a little more.

No where, did I say you viewed AMD as perfect. What I said, and what your diatribe above clearly indicates, is that you feel AMD is morally superior to Intel.

If you know as much about business as you claim, then you should realize, that your rebuttal is in no way shape or form valid as you are attempting to defend against a statement that was never made. If you want to argue with me, please argue the statements I made regarding AMDs vs Intels morality and the actual issue as to the validity of morality as a comparative metric in the corporate environment.

You and a few million others. Most of whom would be better off with an iMac.


Im sorry. Was that meant to be an insult against my intellectual or technical capacity?

If so, it fails miserably. You see, the mac hardware has always been fairly capable relative to either AMD or Intels offerings, prior to them switching to mainstream x86 hardware, and the Mac OS is far superior anything MS has ever produced, and at least competative with any of the Unix/Linux derivatives. Sadly, the Mac OS is the 'little engine' that almost no one wrote software for, making it almost but not totally useless for anything other than graphics or video editing and basic tasks.

Or didnt you know that?

The attempted impilcation, that I lack understanding of a computers capabilities, or dont use them to the fullest extent and would be better off using a mass produced genero-box suited for light duty web browsing, mp3 trading and photo editing is an implication based on a foundation of ignorance. Allow me to not waste the time alleviating your ingnorance as to the extent of my acumen, as you really dont have a need to know.

Yeah, my primary contract is with a company that does about $60,B per year. And as a business owner, I think I probably know a little more about business than most here on these forums.




Oh dear, are you really trying to play the 'my dick is bigger than yours' game? It certainly appears that way, and it certainly is an overtly defensive and desperate tactic. But, if you wish to play, I will capitulate. You are saying you have a $60B size penis. As such, it qualifies your opinion as valid. Well, since phalic envy is the game you are trying to play, the orgnization I am contracted to operates @ $400B a year. So, by your logic, my penis is bigger than yours, to the tune of $340B a year, and therefore, I must know more about business than you.

But I wont stand by that. I really never put any stock in that game, as history (and in fact, the Intel vs AMD battle itself) has demonstrated time and time again, it is a fataly failing tactic. Instead, I will point out the blatently obvious and in doing so, expose my own guilt, again, of doing that which I point out you are doing.

Clearly, if you are preaching corporate morality on an anonymous electronic forum, a CPU specific forum no less, and doing so seriously, then you would appear to not know as much as you think you do about business.

Any decent company is going to realize that there are limits. Go very far beyond those limits and some type of reaction is going to have to be dealt with.


Again, you demonstrate that you seem to have some comprehension difficulties
The word 'decent' and company do not go together. Decent is an adjective:

de•cent /ˈdisənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dee-suhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. conforming to the recognized standard of propriety, good taste, modesty, etc., as in behavior or speech.
2. respectable; worthy: a decent family.
3. adequate; fair; passable: a decent wage.
4. kind; obliging; generous: It was very decent of him to lend me his watch.
5. suitable; appropriate: She did not have a decent coat for the cold winter.
6. of fairly attractive appearance: a decent face.
7. Informal. wearing enough clothing to appear in public.
8. Slang. great; wonderful.

[Origin: 1485–95; < L decent- (s. of decéns) fitting (prp. of decére to be fitting; see -ent), akin to decus honor]

—Related forms
de•cent•ly, adverb
de•cent•ness, noun


—Synonyms 1. seemly, proper, decorous. 5. apt, fit, becoming.
—Antonyms 1. unseemly. 5. inappropriate.
Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.


Im not going to bother providing proof. All one has to do it turn on the television and watch broadcast signals. The 60+ commercials per hour will alleviate any doubt as to the notion that there are any companies which could be described as "decent"

READ MY LIPS ! I NEVER, EEEE_VVVVV_EEEE_RRRRR said that AMD was the perfect corporation. Please ! Get that through your challenged little mind !

Once again, your reading and comprehesion skills miss the mark. Again, you seem to function under the comprehensive misconception that I have accused you of stating or believing AMD is somehow perfect. Again, I have said no such thing, and again, what I have said is you function under the misconception that AMD is somehow morally superior to Intel, which they are not.

Since you seem incapable of grasping the differnce between the words 'superior' and 'perfect', or the concepts of moralitly, allow me to broaden your vocabulary.

per·fect /adj., n. ˈpɜrfɪkt; v. pərˈfɛkt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[adj., n. pur-fikt; v. per-fekt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. conforming absolutely to the description or definition of an ideal type: a perfect sphere; a perfect gentleman.
2. excellent or complete beyond practical or theoretical improvement: There is no perfect legal code. The proportions of this temple are almost perfect.
3. exactly fitting the need in a certain situation or for a certain purpose: a perfect actor to play Mr. Micawber; a perfect saw for cutting out keyholes.
4. entirely without any flaws, defects, or shortcomings: a perfect apple; the perfect crime.
5. accurate, exact, or correct in every detail: a perfect copy.
6. thorough; complete; utter: perfect strangers.
7. pure or unmixed: perfect yellow.
8. unqualified; absolute: He has perfect control over his followers.
9. expert; accomplished; proficient.
10. unmitigated; out-and-out; of an extreme degree: He made a perfect fool of himself.
11. Botany. a. having all parts or members present.
b. monoclinous.

12. Grammar. a. noting an action or state brought to a close prior to some temporal point of reference, in contrast to imperfect or incomplete action.
b. designating a tense or other verb formation or construction with such meaning.

13. Music. a. applied to the consonances of unison, octave, and fifth, as distinguished from those of the third and sixth, which are called imperfect.
b. applied to the intervals, harmonic or melodic, of an octave, fifth, and fourth in their normal form, as opposed to augmented and diminished.

14. Mathematics. (of a set) equal to its set of accumulation points.
15. Obsolete. assured or certain.
–noun Grammar. 16. the perfect tense.
17. a verb form or construction in the perfect tense. Compare future perfect, pluperfect, present perfect.
–verb (used with object) 18. to bring to completion; finish.
19. to bring to perfection; make flawless or faultless.
20. to bring nearer to perfection; improve.
21. to make fully skilled.
22. Printing. to print the reverse of (a printed sheet).

[Origin: 1250–1300; < L perfectus, ptp. of perficere to finish, bring to completion (per- per- + -fec-, comb. form of facere to do1 + -tus ptp. suffix); r. ME parfit < OF < L as above]

—Related forms
per·fect·ed·ly, adverb
per·fect·er, noun
per·fect·ness, noun


—Synonyms 1, 2. See complete. 4. unblemished; faultless.
—Usage note A few usage guides still object to the use of comparison words such as more, most, nearly, almost, and rather with perfect on the grounds that perfect describes an absolute, yes-or-no condition that cannot logically be said to exist in varying degrees. The English language has never agreed to this limitation. Since its earliest use in the 13th century, perfect has, like almost all adjectives, been compared, first in the now obsolete forms perfecter and perfectest, and more recently with more, most, and similar comparison words: the most perfect arrangement of color and line imaginable. Perfect is compared in most of its general senses in all varieties of speech and writing. After all, one of the objectives of the writers of the U.S. Constitution was “to form a more perfect union.” See also complete, unique.
Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.



su·pe·ri·or /səˈpɪəriər, sʊ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[suh-peer-ee-er, soo-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. higher in station, rank, degree, importance, etc.: a superior officer.
2. above the average in excellence, merit, intelligence, etc.: superior math students.
3. of higher grade or quality: superior merchandise.
4. greater in quantity or amount: superior numbers.
5. showing a consciousness or feeling of being better than or above others: superior airs.
6. not yielding or susceptible (usually fol. by to): to be superior to temptation.
7. higher in place or position: We moved our camp to superior ground.
8. Botany. a. situated above some other organ.
b. (of a calyx) seeming to originate from the top of the ovary.
c. (of an ovary) free from the calyx.

9. Anatomy. (of an organ or part) a. higher in place or position; situated above another.
b. toward the head. Compare inferior (def. 7).

10. Printing. written or printed high on a line of text, as the “2” in a2b; superscript. Compare inferior (def. 9).
–noun 11. one superior to another.
12. Also called superscript. Printing. a superior letter, number, or symbol. Compare inferior (def. 11).
13. Ecclesiastical. the head of a monastery, convent, or the like.

[Origin: 1350–1400; ME (adj.) < L, equiv. to super(us) situated above (adj. deriv. of super; see super-) + -ior comp. suffix; see -er4]

—Related forms
su·pe·ri·or·ly, adverb

—Synonyms 2. excellent, distinguished, unrivaled, first-rate, matchless. 5. haughty, arrogant, snobbish.
Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

mo·ral·i·ty /məˈrælɪti, mɔ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[muh-ral-i-tee, maw-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -ties for 4–6. 1. conformity to the rules of right conduct; moral or virtuous conduct.
2. moral quality or character.
3. virtue in sexual matters; chastity.
4. a doctrine or system of morals.
5. moral instruction; a moral lesson, precept, discourse, or utterance.
6. morality play.

[Origin: 1350–1400; ME moralite < LL mōrālitās. See moral, -ity]

—Synonyms 1. See goodness.

Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Typical. Are you familiar with the terms "narcissistic personality" ? Don't worry. It's all about "you".

I cant help but wonder if you even understand the definition of the word narcissistic, being as you made these statements:

Since, like 'superior' 'perfect' and 'morality', you dont seem to understand the meaning of 'narcissism', I shall provide it for you.
nar·cis·sism /ˈnɑrsəˌsɪzɛm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nahr-suh-siz-em] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. inordinate fascination with oneself; excessive self-love; vanity.
2. Psychoanalysis. erotic gratification derived from admiration of one's own physical or mental attributes, being a normal condition at the infantile level of personality development.

Also, nar·cism /ˈnɑrsɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[nahr-siz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation.
[Origin: 1815–25; < G Narzissismus. See narcissus, -ism]
—Related forms
nar·cis·sist, narcist, noun
nar·cis·sis·tic, nar·cis·tic, adjective
—Synonyms 1. self-centeredness, smugness, egocentrism.
Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Not caring about volume discounts, wholesale rebates, mid year bonus's etc etc etc hardly qualifies me as 'self centered' or 'egotistical'. Not even by stretching that lack of concern in such a manner so to present it as a lack of caring about anything not directly relating to myself.

Again, perhaps you should actually read the thread, as you seem to be responding to something other than what has been written.

Or perhaps that was simply the best response you could muster?

"Buy off" ? I'm not the one denying what has been reported in every reputable tech site on the internet. Also I don't think there are many who would doubt the veracity of Groklaw and/or cast aspersions just because AMD gave them a pair of servers. Letsee, AMD kicks a couple of $5,K servers .... and ..... Intel kicks a few $BILLION back to OEM's for not using AMD procs. And someone has the brass to get up in a bunch about AMD ? !!!

Oooo. a couple of $5K servers. Quick, alert Vatican City....its the second coming :roll:

Its interesting that you say:

as you certainly seem to be getting "up in a bunch about AMD" via Intel. Again, through your posts, you seem to be trying to prove that AMD is morally superior to Intel by way of pointing out Intels alleged immoral acts. Since you havent been reading or comprehending the thead, allow me to spell it out for you. Again. Step by step.

Niether company is morally superior or inferior to the other.
There is no such thing as morals in business
Any corporate entity will do whatever best serves their interests.
Any corporate entity will do whatever that is to the extent the believe they can get away with it.
Any corporate entity will use or foster any positive perception to the full extent they can.
Any corporate entity will work to minimize negative perceptions to the maximum extent possible.
The true value of a corporate entity is in:
-the qaulity of their products, be they physical, intelectual or service
-the performance of their products
-the value of their products, that is the cost per unit of performance relative to any competitors products

The rest is nothing more than PR and perceptual manipulation to further sales.


Additionally, it is amazing that you claim to be a business person, yet seem taken aback by the concept of 'rebates'. I guess rebate is a dirty word to you, yet this type of financial recompense has been legally accepted as a normal, viable business practice since before Intel was even a concept, let alone a coporeal corporation. I mean really, I am shocked that you seem to think this is somehow abnormal. Do you not know, at least from your business experiance, of the manufacturing supplier practice of delivering products at a marked up wholesale price to allow retailers to advertise as selling for "pennies above cost", then refund, anually, bi-anually, quarterly or on whatever fiscal schedule they choose, a portion of the wholesale purchase cost? Surely, as a self-professed business person, you must know of this. It is after all, a common wide spread practice.

But it comes down to the real question: do you buy the BS & PR, or do you buy the superior product? Being as this is the CPU forum, not the "corporate morality forum", one would assume people come here to talk about the value and performance of........CPUs.

I view it as a corp. In fact I might have done some work for them in the past. The same as I've done for quite a few other tech companies since 1981.

I doubt you view it strictly as a corporation. Your posts indicate a personality that is closer to 'religiuos zealot' rather than 'business person'.

Again, it seems you would be better servered creating your own personal 'sacred temple of AMD worship' site where you can rail against the evils of Intel to your hearts content.

I can't believe this argument still continues. "Morality" and "Business" are mutually exclusive. By the way, you got my vote up.

Edit: I'm wondering exactly how much time Mr One Star gives up to afford me with this honor.. must've probably given up sex and sleep... ^__^

Ethical business is good business. Business without ethics is what we have with companies like Enron, Arthur Anderson and now Intel.

Hmmm, sex is better in the day and I generally work nights. Both are personal preferences of course.

Ethical business is good business. Business without ethics is what we have with companies like Enron, Arthur Anderson and now Intel.

What we want and what is reality are two vastly differing truths my friend. AMD has made errors. We haven't (or are just plain not looking) them at this time. If I wanted to piss away my time, I'd go looking for every faux pas made by the Green. And with enough money and time, I'd find unethical and "immoral" business practices. Wait, isn't pride immoral? Think of how AMD got caught with their collective pants down. I'm sure others with more... errr.. enthusiasm will come up with better examples.

Hmmm, sex is better in the day and I generally work nights. Both are personal preferences of course.
Nice one 'mano...

So Intel is evil. So what? Are you going to support the slow side?

By the way my friend, here is why (albeit in a probably flawed and terribly worded explanation) comparing Intel to Enron as a example of bad business practices is a bad example. Enron fabricated numbers and doctored their accounts. Enron traded energy which is a non tangible commodity which price varies from each transaction to transaction, and makes it easier to fabricate earnings for, seeing as when you sell technically "nothing", you can get numbers from virtually nowhere. Intel sells tangible commodities, and the price of these commodities don't vary on each transaction. And unless thousands of CPU's magically disappear into nothingness... well, you get the picture.

Of course however I must point out that my entire series of posts has been about the unethical behavior of Intel. It's been proven that Intel has provided kickbacks to companies to insure that they do not carry AMD procs. I personally find this behavior abhorrent in the extreme. Unfortunately most of America would rather reward this behavior and in fact are doing so by simply doing business with this company much the same as they would do business with Enron even after it became well known that they had defrauded their stock-holders.

I wish it weren't true but the vast majority of Americans ethics can be bought and sold for a $5 bill.

QFT

Of course however I must point out that my entire series of posts has been about the unethical behavior of Intel. It's been proven that Intel has provided kickbacks to companies to insure that they do not carry AMD procs.
Only in the JTC case and even then it was kinda flaky. When you can't challenge an accusation... well..

AMD got beat in OEM for a while because Intel had to money and also the reputation. The money in that they could sell their processors to OEM for much less than AMD could. The reputation in that they had the capacity and the history to be able to supply OEMs with the massive amount of CPU's necessary not to create major bottlenecks, and thus cementing their reputation as a company that delivers on their obligations. They've also had a better marketing department than AMD. I can remember the Blue Man and the Simpson's commercials for Intel, not to mention the Multiply commercials that seems to be every-freakin-where, but I haven't seen a single AMD one. Ever. Customers will go to the store and ask for, "what I saw in the commercial with the funny blue guys." (No joke, I've heard this before...) and ye old big box stores will happily oblige said customer.

My ethics and morals can be bought and sold for a cookie (or two). Anyone want a soul to go with that? Comes with a free Celeron D and Turion when purchased with an extended warranty.
Has Intel done bad things? You'd bet your ass they have. But those in glass houses (AMD and Co) should beware of casting stones.

I'm going to break these down a little.

Intel hasn't been audited in this way yet though I wouldn't rule out the possiblity as at least one of the companies they do business with (Dell, Inc.) is currently being audited by the SEC.

More on this in the article "Dell Audit Turns Up Errors, Evidence of Misconduct" at : http://ecommercetimes.com/story/56612.html

Of course there is no mention of Intel but due note that Dell's own stockholders are suing them as posted by Reuters in the article "UPDATE 2-Dell faces investor lawsuit over Intel pact" available online at :

http://today.reuters.com/news/arti [...] &type=qcna

Well I'll agree that it's a lot easier to fabricate numbers than processors but Intel can easily write off a few hundred thousand procs due to QC and then turn around and give same procs to a company like HP for instance.

That's exactly what I'm getting at. If a company wants to make up numbers then that's really all they have to do. There are literally hundreds of thousands of ways to hide cash but if one does it consistently and in large quantities, it gets to be a lot more troublesome.

From monopolization through restraint of trade to kicking back to OEM's, Intel is most assuredly one of the least ethical companies currently doing business.