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You contiunue to funtion from the misconception that I want to see AMD perform poorly. I do not, but again, the concept that "If you dont agree with me, youre anti-AMD" previals. AMD has blundered, AMD is doing poorly, and while they are not going to go out of business, their future is hanging by a thread....a thread called K10. You say I should be a spin doctor, yet I am not the one grasping at straws to make AMD appear more stable than they are, nor am I the one blaming AMDs woes on everyone else except AMD.


CPU manufacturing is a commercial enterprise. Its just that simple. It is not the special olympics. Everyone cannot be a winner. If a company is going to compete, then they must be determined to compete, and compete by the rules of the playing field, not some nonsensical notions of commercial sharing, fairplay, subsidization or consumer loyalty. If they dont produce a better product, or a competative product for less, then they are not competaive. CPUs are not a novelty market. They are a commodity. A tool for perfroming tasks. There is only a small handfull of people who view CPUs as something other than tools, and that handfull is not enough to support a failing competitor. If AMD cant compete, that is their own fault, and they should lie in the bed they are making for themselves. While that would be horrible for us, warping facts, diverting attention from problems and wishing really hard doesnt stop the cash hemorage. The first step to fixing a problem is admiting the problem exists. It also always the hardest step. If AMD cant do that, they may as well just close their doors, because they have more than one problem, and they created the problems themselves.


So basically you guys have to take turns annoying me because I pay no attention?

They can compete. They are competing. They will compete tomorrow, but like I always say, places like this with 2% of PC buyers think a CPU is a phallic device for vicarious worship.

The other 98% of people wouldn't know how to run FRAPS or even care what SuperPi does. To them AMD is running all of their SW well and is even cheaper than Intel.

AMDs problem is people like you and I guess there are a lot of you so they have multiple problems. They are doing a great job with EXTREMELY limited resources compared to the competition. I'll be glad for Barcelona to come out so you guys can be mad at AMD for something else.

I guess then it'll be but Penryn this, Penryn that.

You contiunue to funtion from the misconception that I want to see AMD perform poorly. I do not, but again, the concept that "If you dont agree with me, youre anti-AMD" previals. AMD has blundered, AMD is doing poorly, and while they are not going to go out of business, their future is hanging by a thread....a thread called K10. You say I should be a spin doctor, yet I am not the one grasping at straws to make AMD appear more stable than they are, nor am I the one blaming AMDs woes on everyone else except AMD.


CPU manufacturing is a commercial enterprise. Its just that simple. It is not the special olympics. Everyone cannot be a winner. If a company is going to compete, then they must be determined to compete, and compete by the rules of the playing field, not some nonsensical notions of commercial sharing, fairplay, subsidization or consumer loyalty. If they dont produce a better product, or a competative product for less, then they are not competaive. CPUs are not a novelty market. They are a commodity. A tool for perfroming tasks. There is only a small handfull of people who view CPUs as something other than tools, and that handfull is not enough to support a failing competitor. If AMD cant compete, that is their own fault, and they should lie in the bed they are making for themselves. While that would be horrible for us, warping facts, diverting attention from problems and wishing really hard doesnt stop the cash hemorage. The first step to fixing a problem is admiting the problem exists. It also always the hardest step. If AMD cant do that, they may as well just close their doors, because they have more than one problem, and they created the problems themselves.


So basically you guys have to take turns annoying me because I pay no attention?

They can compete. They are competing. They will compete tomorrow, but like I always say, places like this with 2% of PC buyers think a CPU is a phallic device for vicarious worship.

The other 98% of people wouldn't know how to run FRAPS or even care what SuperPi does. To them AMD is running all of their SW well and is even cheaper than Intel.

AMDs problem is people like you and I guess there are a lot of you so they have multiple problems. They are doing a great job with EXTREMELY limited resources compared to the competition. I'll be glad for Barcelona to come out so you guys can be mad at AMD for something else.

I guess then it'll be but Penryn this, Penryn that.You're right....

Check this:

All i want for christmas is my Penryn.

Sounds stupid....doesn't it, chump?

I love how you are just trying to get Brood recruits and not make a point by not saying you but referring to "Baron" as if you are talking to others.

QFX uses a lot of power. It's only faster than C2Q at some things. It's faster than FX62 in multithreaded apps. For people who were already using SLI, 6 HDDs, 2 DVDs, an XFi, etc they will have an upgrade path from FX62before Agena or they can wait. Judging by it's selling out and the mobo prices dropping it's a sign that the same amount of people are buying it as bought FX62.

If AMD had not created X2, AMD64, HTX,ccHT, etc I would think everything was their fault. But they have and they ruled gaming enough that now you get those same incredible frame rates for half the price.

Your problem is that you think even at 22nm CPUs should still have lots of room to grow. My idea is that we should stop this stupid race and just get wider CPUs with AMD and Intel sharing, not "competing" tooth and nail, while totally undervaluing the market they have to use to grow.

I love how you are just trying to get Brood recruits and not make a point by not saying you but referring to "Baron" as if you are talking to others.

QFX uses a lot of power. It's only faster than C2Q at some things. It's faster than FX62 in multithreaded apps. For people who were already using SLI, 6 HDDs, 2 DVDs, an XFi, etc they will have an upgrade path from FX62before Agena or they can wait. Judging by it's selling out and the mobo prices dropping it's a sign that the same amount of people are buying it as bought FX62.

If AMD had not created X2, AMD64, HTX,ccHT, etc I would think everything was their fault. But they have and they ruled gaming enough that now you get those same incredible frame rates for half the price.

Your problem is that you think even at 22nm CPUs should still have lots of room to grow. My idea is that we should stop this stupid race and just get wider CPUs with AMD and Intel sharing, not "competing" tooth and nail, while totally undervaluing the market they have to use to grow.You're right again..... as usual, and Microsoft and Apple should join forces too. You really are lame.....BRO.

[quote="BaronMatrix"][quote="turpit"]

AH this is just classic

Just where is it selling out?? You have sales numbers?? Perhaps there is a yield problem.... perhpas you are wrong, I see stock on all FX processors.... or perhaps they are not selling at all and retailers are dropping the product. Prehaps the drop in MBs are just to clear out inventory as they kill the product??

Your judgement (speculation) probably is not based in actualities.

Baron --- there is a limit to the level of parallelism you can accomplish at the intstruction level, Amdahl's Law specifies limits in parallelism.

Finally, to make a core wider costs transistor budget, trasnsistors, even as small as they are now, takes up space. More space means larger die, larger die means less yield, less yield means higher costs..... hence, making the CPU wider (if you even understand what that means) and benefits from going smaller.

You should refrain from making commments on topics you do not understand.....


Newegg.

80 core chip

I can tell you that just because Newegg doesn't have it in stock does NOT mean it's sold out. I've seen them list products just to see if there's any interest by the number of email requests they get....

If they're not in stock anymore they probably sold the few they had (so technically yes sold out but if you only bought 10 of something to begin with and it took three months to sell those 10 I'd call that testing the waters) And I'd bet that they're more than likely not stocking it anymore...

wtf you smoking? No real R&D? They were spending over $1B a year on R&D before ATI. stfu noob

IBM doesn't give them technology for free, or do they?

You tell me 'cuz I'm just a noob and shouldn't be speaking.

As for my point that you missed, AMD has much less confidence in being competitive 4-6 years in the future because buying IBM's technology is all that keeps them competitive.

It typically takes 3-4 years to get a product out the door if it involves new Arch and new technology.

Intel builds it's stuff from start to finish. If Intel sees some success in the lab with any technology it feels will make them money they can throw money at it and get it to market. They can also research it for various products, uses, combine it with other research/processes, branch other research off of it, and maximize INTEL's benifit from it.

AMD doesn't tell IBM " Hey you guys need to develop a fiber optic interconnect for our 27nm process because we found that their is a heat problem with an electrical interface to IMC on stackable die " or " Hey you guys need to spend more on HK/MG technology because it is key to both our CPU and Flash memory roadmaps and that will benifit us most. "

This is what makes it hard for AMD to invest to heavily in their future. This is also why AMD is not making processors for Mac/PS3/WII/Xbox and why Dell was willing to take exclusive rebates from Intel vs diversifying its product line with AMD (of course this bit dell in the arse due to Netburst ).

I can tell you that just because Newegg doesn't have it in stock does NOT mean it's sold out. I've seen them list products just to see if there's any interest by the number of email requests they get....

If they're not in stock anymore they probably sold the few they had (so technically yes sold out but if you only bought 10 of something to begin with and it took three months to sell those 10 I'd call that testing the waters) And I'd bet that they're more than likely not stocking it anymore...


And people say I offer excuses. I monitored Newegg for the first month or so and saw it sell out along with the chips. It is still listed and has dropped $60 in price.

Linkage!

This usually doesn't happen for something that isn't selling.

You mean you monitored Newegg after launch for a month and found no parts available and assumed they sold out....

Others call this a paper launch. AMD launched the 4x4 on Nov. 30th, but MBs and CPUs were not available until after Christmas.

TechReport did an article on it.
http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/11378

Actually, retail processors began appearing at online sites mid-January or thereabouts, the Inq (your major source of information), did an article on it too when they discovered they broke up the 'pair'.
http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=37045 (dated Jan. 18)



FX70 and the mobo were at Newegg in Dec. in time for XMas.

If someone says saw it sell out it means they had some.

By Christmas, do you mean December 28th?
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/har [...] %231419677
Proof of its earlier arrival? Don't think so.

Wow, I should remember the exact day it went up there. I must be spreading FUD. The point was they were available and then sold out and the prices dropped some.

Great idea! But it'll land you in jail...and both companies would pay dearly. It's called collusion and price fixing is typically associated with that arangement. You sure that's really what you want?

No reason to answer that, cause your words deceive you. You really do think this is the special olympics [thx turpit for that great analogy]? I bet you think socialism is far more advanced, practical and successful than free enterprise too, huh?

Pray speakth, Khalif.

wtf you smoking? No real R&D? They were spending over $1B a year on R&D before ATI. stfu noob

IBM doesn't give them technology for free, or do they?

You tell me 'cuz I'm just a noob and shouldn't be speaking.

As for my point that you missed, AMD has much less confidence in being competitive 4-6 years in the future because buying IBM's technology is all that keeps them competitive.

It typically takes 3-4 years to get a product out the door if it involves new Arch and new technology.

Intel builds it's stuff from start to finish. If Intel sees some success in the lab with any technology it feels will make them money they can throw money at it and get it to market. They can also research it for various products, uses, combine it with other research/processes, branch other research off of it, and maximize INTEL's benifit from it.

AMD doesn't tell IBM " Hey you guys need to develop a fiber optic interconnect for our 27nm process because we found that their is a heat problem with an electrical interface to IMC on stackable die " or " Hey you guys need to spend more on HK/MG technology because it is key to both our CPU and Flash memory roadmaps and that will benifit us most. "

This is what makes it hard for AMD to invest to heavily in their future. This is also why AMD is not making processors for Mac/PS3/WII/Xbox and why Dell was willing to take exclusive rebates from Intel vs diversifying its product line with AMD (of course this bit dell in the arse due to Netburst ).

Interesting, your point about the 3-4 years made me think: there's something that might change, and if it did, it would matter. That's always an interesting thing to lookout for in a company re it's stock. Makes me wonder about the fabless thing too. It's good to be able to test and refine in your own fab no doubt, but what's to stop AMD from using Taiwan fabs more and more, anyway?

Re the consols, AMD not making the processors exactly because IBM is about that, in the sense of having the best solution, period. AMD/ATI does make the graphics for the most popular one though (or most up-and-coming perhaps I should say). Even folks I know that have't played consol games (like my wife!) are saying they want to get a Wii ! That's something new under this sun.

Actually....Yes. You cited a specific date in your argument here:
"FX70 and the mobo were at Newegg in Dec. in time for XMas. "

The simple use of facts, logic, and good debate should dictate that when you claim something as fact, which is immedately proven false you should own up to it. I don't know you from a hole in the ground but if I had to guess I would say it is your aversion to facts, affinity for histrionics, hyperbole, and unsubstantiated FUD that has led to the contempt most members seem to have for you. Man up, if you make a statement in the heat of discourse that is factually incorrect, own up to it. If you pay attention, many people make mistakes, but the ones who tend to be respected are those who own up, and learn from them rather than resorting to smoke and mirrors to defend their position.


hognose

I really hope you meant to say after producing "creative" things from his b**k.... Ugh...feels so good.....I didn't post something like this before because I don't really understand about uarch, economy or stuff like that, but since days before I registered as forumzers (although I've read THG front page for years), I've been reading "funny" things posted my Baron, MMM and Sharikou, I think I've had it enough. Wrong is wrong, there's no shame admitting that. What's really shameful are you are not admitting you are at wrong.
I want to announce something here...eventhough before this I tells everybody that asked me that I'm performance fanboy, but at heart I'm an AMD fanboy...but when when I see C2D's performance, I admitted that Intel has made something taht I think worth considering changing my side...but then again, as we can't really forsee the future, we don't know what lies ahead even if we know and can predict something. What I'm saying is,eventhough I'm a so-called AMD fanboy, I'll buy anything that's worth my money and available at my place at that time, I'll admit if I'm at/was wrong, not accusing of these and that etc...I don't spread FUD, I won't trolling and try not to do name calling......at least these are what I want to say for now....


having a bad day.....sigh...reading stupid accusation didn't help me to relax my mind