Blue-Ray or HD-DVD - Page 2 - Optical-Media

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There is 1 kink in HD DVDs armor. Thats movie studios. Sony owns 1 or 2. So HD DVD will never get a James Bond novie....

Reply to Fire_Zealot

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Actually 1080P is simply better than 1080I with all the electronics being otherwise equal.

Reply to jinjuku

I have to agree with Croc's original reply - in content, not in the tone.

But I think, technologically, Blu-ray is better. In terms of market acceptance - I think the jury is still out, and I am not quite as cynical as Croc.

It seems that MS (defectors) and the HDDVD camp has got a leg up on the Blu-ray camp, for now. Their argument that HDDVD is less costly to produce is true, however, it remains to be seen how those cost savings will be passed to the consumer.

Content will probably rule all. I would hate to see both stick around for a long time, at least as separate entities. It was really a shame the talks broke down when they were trying to reach a common ground.

Sony does have studios in their pocket, however, yet MS's endorcement (which they deny) of HD DVD is huge.

It would be a shame to end up with something like VHS / Beta or even SACD and DVD A. The latter situation is the reason I have to have two DVD players...I am not looking forward to spending $1,000+ for each of the technologies in question...

Reply to russki

A year ago I was really rooting for the then-upcoming Blu-Ray over the HD-DVD format. But since the PS3 had such troubles (seems like most of it was because of Blu-Ray) I've really began to wonder if they have the stuff to make this technology worth getting.

Now that both technologies have been out for awhile, I think that some other format should be invented that doesn't bother with DRM and other annoyances to blow both of these out of the water. Something that's just, like, a CD with a really large capacity. Mostly all I want is something to back up large amounts of data onto one disc.

There should be a "neither" option in the poll. :lol:

Reply to db101

Sony's history should tell you to stay away at all costs! Market share in the end resides in the consumers hands, consumers being frugal in nature will opt for the cheaper of the two. Sony's storage capacity(50gigs) has not seen the stable light of day, they are having problems.

Storage is not going to win the wars since the average consumer will not be buying/using them at least not initially for that purpose, but well be buying it by way of movies and games, and also consider the movie rental community will have an impact as well and from what I've read they are leaning towards the more friendly HD-DVD.

As far as picture quality is concerned the average consumer couldn't tell the difference between the two unless a side-by-side was conducted and at this point 720P (1080i) being the highest stable output there is, there is no discernible difference. There are no broadcasts in 1080p.

Someone mentioned the console wars having a determining factor, to a degree this is correct but consider this, Xbox is offering an external HD-DVD drive which makes it more universal in its use, while Sony's version is an internal proprietary drive.

In the end all of you should be praying for HD-DVD, if for no other reason, there is the cost factor, you're going to be paying more for being told how and when to use Blue-ray, remember Sony's diabolical root kit fiasco? That alone should keep you away!

Blue-ray started off with problems because of all the controls they are trying to infuse.

Sony knows technology and they make damn good products but at a premium and if there are peripherals attached you pay for those as well, mem-sticks, etc. They don't like others playing in there sandbox and most, if not all, of there products are not compatible.

I pray to the tech gods for HD-DVD!!!

Reply to o0RaidR0o

As for movies dual format player will be out soon so that wont be an issue. The whole disk battle will be short lived as downloads to DVR will take over within 5 years.

As a storage medium the same will hold true for the format.

One last thought, Sony has the worst marketing team on the planet.

Reply to bydesign

So far good points have been made. I am still in the anti-sony camp for the reasons I specified and such DRM issues that have been discussed.

Let's look at this from another perspective, the TV market.

You can expect HDTV's to continue to drop and increase the adoption rate of HD-DVD and Blu-Ray and as the prices drop on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players, expect HDTV's to drop in price, but also to include 1080p. From what I have seen, most HDTV's are 1080i (if they support 1080 at all). Ok, it is nit picking but if I am going to buy a HDTV it is going to have HDMI + 1080p. I realize it is circular reasoning but the two go hand in hand and create a synergistic effect in the market. The point about competing standards bringing down prices quicker is likely to hold true, but I am not sure the market wants to deal with two formats long term.

In the end it comes down to 2 question:

Can Sony get their $hit in order and manufacture affordable players/discs?

Can the HD-DVD consortium get access to Sony's movie studio to release the movies on HD-DVD?

I'd like to deal with the hard drive point:

I agree that when you are speaking to a computer usage context, hard drives will likely be the way to go for a long time (probably still have a good 10-15 years left in them). However, as for distribution of HD content, i.e. movies, then I don't see them taking over. Simply put its cheaper to do for movies.

I would keep my eye on broadband services and HD content delivery. We see movies being streamed on demand, and as networking speed opens up I wouldn't be surprised to see some attempt at HD content on demand. It is an idea probably 5-7 years off, but something to watch.

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The whole disk battle will be short lived as downloads to DVR will take over within 5 years.

I agree it is possible, but the networking demands are extraordinary, not to mention the attempt to match the convenience of a disc. Before you can get people to accept downloaded movies, you are going to need to match quality, provide it in a reasonable amount of time, and have a way to back it up. Hard drives fail randomly, discs degrade due not to use really, but poor handling. Just some things to ponder before we all jump on the deliverable content bandwagon

Reply to SuperFly03

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Sony's history should tell you to stay away at all costs!

...

Sony knows technology and they make damn good products but at a premium and if there are peripherals attached you pay for those as well, mem-sticks, etc. They don't like others playing in there sandbox and most, if not all, of there products are not compatible.

I pray to the tech gods for HD-DVD!!!

I concur. Last time I checked iPod's plug into Xbox 360's and work, but when was the last time you saw something non-sony plug into a sony item and work correctly? When was the last time Sony created something that didn't have something go wrong with it? How many delays has Sony had due to Blu-Ray with the PS3? How many PS3's can they make? How restrictive can Sony DRM get?

These are all valid question and most have discernible unfavorable answers. So why Blu-Ray in theory may be better, in typical Sony fashion, Sony has f***ed up the implementation.

Way to go Sony!

Take a lesson from Nintendo: Create something that works, not a trouble plagued revolution with poor software support.

Take a lesson from M$: Make products cross compatible

Reply to SuperFly03

I don't think that most consumers realize that all HD-DVD movies are in 1080p(all the ones I own at least). Sony has beaten the Blu-Ray 1080p drum so much that I dont think people realize that both formats are 1080p. Toshibas first gen. player only output up to 1080i but the 360 does 1080p if your set will accept it through the vga or componant inputs(many sets only accept 1080p through the HDMI input), and the second gen. Toshiba's coming out any day will do 1080p.

Reply to corporal_linko

My vote: HD-DVD

Reasons:1) Not as proprietary (a consortium is better than Sony)
2) More robust than the micro-thin protective layer on BR disks (to kryojenix: it isn't diamond, so a diamond will scratch it - the only question is how deeply)
3) Both are equal in terms of potential for storing HD movies in 1080p, so no benefit to either there. The fact that BR can store more on a single layer, while HD-DVD will come out with DL disks shortly (if they haven't already) means that both can store more than a 3 hr movie in full 1080p HD with HD surround sound. Anything else is just empty disk space or advertising
4) The lower cost of HD-DVD manufacture (while that difference lasts) will mean that for products competing on price, manufacturers will wholesale at lower costs to retailers. That means lower costs for me for those products if offered on both media formats.
5) The Sony digital content division will cripple the ability of the Sony electronics division to innovate competitive features by trying to enforce DRM that is beyond what is deemed acceptable by consumers.

Someone noted that this battle is more like DVD-A vs. SACD than Betamax vs. VHS. I agree, because (a) the physical formats are sufficiently similar that one player could conceivably play both, (b) the marketplace isn't yet quite sure why they need HD movie disks, when they think DVDs are "good enough", (c) there is already a tremendous number of DVDs in consumer libraries, which they won't necessarily want to upgrade for $30 each.

I think Sony Columbia should be charged under anti-trust if they refuse to manufacture their digital content on HD-DVD, but that's just my own gripe.

Reply to TeraMedia

That is a perfectly informative post defanitly was worth reading.

@fire_zealot actualy 50 gigs is way to small and i think i saw a paper somewhere about it being able to hit 100gigs if not already had. considering i have 400 to 600 gigs of data to backup (i dont know with all the deleting) i could use the space.

Reply to EnFoRceR22

600Gb? damn boy what do you have? I guess if I backed up everything like I should and actually downloaded my CD's to my hard drive instead of losing them I would have somewhere near that, but who knows.

Reply to SuperFly03

All most all of the current HD-DVD releases have been on dual layer 30gig. disc. King Kong is just over 3 hours and it is on a dual layer. Sony just started releasing the dual layer 50gig. Blu-Ray disc. Click was the first movie to use it , but I think all of the movies are using it now. I'd been interested to see Superman returns on HD-DVD and Blu-Ray to see if their is any notable differences.

Reply to corporal_linko

I think i mentioned it before here but i download all the movies i have on VHS copy all my cd's in the highest bitrate to my harddrive so i dont do exactly what you said .. lose it anyways yes and i download somethings i dont own of course otherwise i wouldnt need exactly that much however i would still need quite some space

Basicly all my media i want at a on demand kind of way i dont want to search box's of tapes, cds, dvd, vhs, blah blah blah. In a format thats easy to copy,trasnfer, and backup.

Now i see what alot of people are talking about now with sony they want to stop me from doing alot of this stuff

Reply to EnFoRceR22

Just saw that HD-DVD discs are cheaper than Blu-Ray discs, not sure about the difference in players but unless there is a major need for space i see Blu-Ray only applying to PS3

Laslty what its all going to come down to is a Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Player in which you will just buy both BR discs and HD-DVD discs and be able to play either and not have to worry...

Reply to IcY18

Where do you find any HD-DVD media or players? I really never saw one.
I am also not sure which format has stronger content management.
Thanks!

Reply to enewmen

Ok, that is what I had in mind. I have wanted to back up all my stuff to hard drives but I have been quite lazy. I really need to rerip all my CD's to my hard drive, they have been transferred probably 30-40 times in 8 years so I am betting a rerip in a new loseless codec wouldn't hurt.

What do you use to backup your DVDs? Just curious because I have yet to find a utility that I really like and I am happy with.

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Just saw that HD-DVD discs are cheaper than Blu-Ray discs, not sure about the difference in players but unless there is a major need for space i see Blu-Ray only applying to PS3

HD-DVD players are 20-30% less. Blu-Ray players @ Crutchfield run 1300 on the high end and 800 on the low end. HD DVD players run 600 on the high end and 500 on the low end. It is much easier for manufacturers to convert to HD-DVD as compared to Blu-Ray, as a result the related products are much cheaper.

Reply to SuperFly03

Right now i just use clonecd and clonedvd to burn my media where possible. Sometimes i use nero but i dont really like it much.

Reply to EnFoRceR22

I agree, DVDs are needed for movies. What many people forget is that the PS3 is a blu ray, but doesnt have HDMI. You need to buy an extra cable for that. I can see many consumers being disenchanted by it because they forgot to get an HDMI cable...

Reply to Fire_Zealot

I have a few issues with what's being said here (not just by TeraMedia either):

Quote :

My vote: HD-DVD
Reasons:1) Not as proprietary (a consortium is better than Sony)
2) More robust than the micro-thin protective layer on BR disks
3) Both are equal in terms of potential for storing HD movies in 1080p, so no benefit to either there. The fact that BR can store more on a single layer, while HD-DVD will come out with DL disks shortly (if they haven't already) means that both can store more than a 3 hr movie in full 1080p HD with HD surround sound. Anything else is just empty disk space or advertising
4) The lower cost of HD-DVD manufacture (while that difference lasts) will mean that for products competing on price, manufacturers will wholesale at lower costs to retailers. That means lower costs for me for those products if offered on both media formats.
5) The Sony digital content division will cripple the ability of the Sony electronics division to innovate competitive features by trying to enforce DRM that is beyond what is deemed acceptable by consumers.

Someone noted that this battle is more like DVD-A vs. SACD than Betamax vs. VHS. I agree, because (a) the physical formats are sufficiently similar that one player could conceivably play both, (b) the marketplace isn't yet quite sure why they need HD movie disks, when they think DVDs are "good enough", (c) there is already a tremendous number of DVDs in consumer libraries, which they won't necessarily want to upgrade for $30 each.

I think Sony Columbia should be charged under anti-trust if they refuse to manufacture their digital content on HD-DVD, but that's just my own gripe.

1- The Blu-Ray Disc Association a.k.a. Blu-Ray Consortium includes: Sony, Matsushita (Panasonic), Apple Computer, Hewlett-Packard, Dell, Hitachi, Pioneer, Philips, Samsung, Mitsubishi, Sun Microsystems, Samsung, Walt Disney, Warner Bros. etc... Blu-Ray is no more or less proprietary than HD-DVD. In fact, it's well known that Hewlett-Packard insisted on the ability for consumers to make a managed copy to be included in the spec, or threatened to pull out. So it's not a Sony-only shop.

2- I can't comment on the hardness of Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD ... but neither can you, unless you want to point us towards some more information.

3- It's a fair point for you to say that HD-DVD has enough storage for a movie, but that's not the only use we're looking at here. Also, doesn't layer transition trigger a slight pause in playback? ... doesn't that detract from the overall experience if there is a choice to keep a movie on a single layer?

4- Costs is a fair point. Everyone will make their own decision based on their personal market research. It's like you can always save money buying a 4-cylinder car instead of a V8.

5- This is the point that REALLY bugs me: Do any of you really think that HD-DVD will NOT be loaded up to the hilt with DRM as well?!
- BOTH formats are slated to use AACS encryption
- Blu-Ray may have an additional feature or two called BD+ and ROM mark
but
- BOTH formats are designed for you not to be able to pirate! You can't say one is better even if it has less technology, UNTIL you PROVE you can pirate it!!
*And regarding the making of permitted copies, as I said, HP insisted that this be included in the Blu-Ray spec, because Blu-Ray is a consortium.

Look, I'm not certain that my support for Blu-Ray will pay off. I'm going to wait and see. I just think some of the points being made and the opinions related show untempered pre-judgement of things we just shouldn't be sure about yet.

Oh, and one more point about the DRM thingy. I've said both formats will come with heavy DRM and this is widely known. But if one format turns out to be much harder to copy, much harder to do what you want with... then which format do you think all the movie studios are suddenly going to jump to?? I don't think it'll be the one that lets you make copies for your friends/siblings.

Reply to kryojenix

Currently, HD-DVD. More people are supporting it, costs less, and currently has higher capacity (30GB) than current gen Bluray discs (25GB).... all this 50GB + crap is just barely coming out of the labs now.... not only that but HD-DVD is also a lot easier to manufacture... the ONLY reason to go bluray is for its future capacity, if it lasts that long.

Reply to LAN_deRf_HA

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Currently, HD-DVD. More people are supporting it, costs less, and currently has higher capacity (30GB) than current gen Bluray discs (25GB).... all this 50GB + crap is just barely coming out of the labs now.... not only that but HD-DVD is also a lot easier to manufacture... the ONLY reason to go bluray is for its future capacity, if it lasts that long.

Not quite sir. HD-DVD has a total capacity of 15GB on one layer x2 for 30GB while Blu-Ray has 25GB per layer resulting in 50GB so it is definitely superior regarding its total storage capacity. Matter of fact they've been out for over a month now. Sony to Ship First 50GB Blu-ray Movies This Week

As far as going beyond 50GB(100GB per layer, 200GB total) that is still being tested but the physical discs have already been made by Panasonic i believe but their cost doesn't warrant bringing it to market yet and their still in testing stages.

Reply to IcY18

I think what will ruin Blu-Ray is Sony, they can do nothing right lately. Batteries, root kits, more batteries, PS3 Launch, the list goes on and on.
On top of it all they release these stupid arrogant press releases thinking we are all idiot lemmings. The next gen. starts when they say so my ass!

Reply to corporal_linko

Wow the last 5 posts have given me alot to think about and alot of googling to do. seems the most people here are leaning twords HD-DVD for two main reasons #1 price #2 its not sony i know video quality and such were in there but these are the two things that stuck out the most for me in the forum.

IMO price isnt the concern as both are overpriced atm and when they come down both will be resonably priced i would hope.

To me this is what is important but dont let that dictate your responces.

#1 storage/backup ability
#2 media quality
#3 movies
#4 things im sure will come up during this thread

This is kind of reminding me of the ls120 vs zip. the ls120 drive imo was better in everyway speed, capacity, versatility and it had backwords compatability i have no idea how zip won that one.

Looking back it seems the better techs of the two always loses.

For what i want to use these drives for so far it seems Blue-Ray will make a better choice for me so far since i mainly want it for backup.

BTW those 50gig disks i read on tomshardware a while ago if im not mistaken it was at release but the price was stupidly insane as im sure HD DVD media is also at this time. But it looks like HD DVD is way more attractive right now because of price mostly.

I'm going to google this a bit but does anyone know if a combo drive would be easy to make for these two formats? if that is a possiblity i think both formats will live a vary long life personaly if not be a dual standard of sorts each finding its own nitch.

Reply to EnFoRceR22

Quote :

I think what will ruin Blu-Ray is Sony, they can do nothing right lately. Batteries, root kits, more batteries, PS3 Launch, the list goes on and on.
On top of it all they release these stupid arrogant press releases thinking we are all idiot lemmings. The next gen. starts when they say so my ass!

Well, i dont know if it will ruin them. It could bring them back to their former glory. Or, it could kill them. Its just a game of rusian roulete

Reply to Fire_Zealot

i think what everyone means to say is that i don't know which is better, i have never touched a b-ray or hdvd player before which is why everyone is asking these pointless questions and giving equally pointless replies such as 'the market will sort itself and then you will know..' which just leads to a really pointless thread really..

Reply to hashv2f16

Quote :

I think what will ruin Blu-Ray is Sony, they can do nothing right lately. Batteries, root kits, more batteries, PS3 Launch, the list goes on and on.
On top of it all they release these stupid arrogant press releases thinking we are all idiot lemmings. The next gen. starts when they say so my ass!

Well, i dont know if it will ruin them. It could bring them back to their former glory. Or, it could kill them. Its just a game of rusian roulete

And lately it seems Sony always finds the barrel position with the bullet 8O

Quote :

This is kind of reminding me of the ls120 vs zip. the ls120 drive imo was better in every way speed, capacity, versatility and it had backwards compatibility i have no idea how zip won that one.

I remember that battle vaguely, but where is zip today? Zip hung on for a few years, but then flash really got the best of them.

Quote :

BTW those 50gig disks i read on tomshardware a while ago if im not mistaken it was at release but the price was stupidly insane as im sure HD DVD media is also at this time. But it looks like HD DVD is way more attractive right now because of price mostly.

Yeah price is a big issue. It breaks down like this (according to my understanding)

1) HD-DVD doesn't require new plant assets, just an upgrade of the stamping mechanism (or something small to that effect)

2) Blu-Ray requires a complete redesign and purchase of new plant assets, is more complicated to build, but has the potential to be better (in terms of capacity).

3) Blu-Ray is a consortium, but Sony basically runs the show.

4) M$ picked HD-DVD to support no more than 18-24 months ago after alot of work had been done already.

Quote :

I'm going to google this a bit but does anyone know if a combo drive would be easy to make for these two formats? if that is a possiblity i think both formats will live a vary long life personally if not be a dual standard of sorts each finding its own nitch.

You know, I honestly don't have an answer to that. I am thinking this may end up like the +/- DVD R war and it will just take time for dual drives to come out. Theoretically you could say dual drives will be a problem due to the fact that Blu-Ray has the data layer at a different depth than the HD-DVD and also has a different track pitch (I think that is the right term 8O ), but the same is also true for DVD vs. Blu-Ray and you still find them on the same drive. So, after that small explanation, I think it is a matter of time till companies pride falls, as well as prices, and then dual drives will arrive. If I had to guess, I would say expect an announcement of a dual drive before Christmas of next year, but don't expect it to launch until Jan/Feb 08. Again that is total speculation and I have no basis for that lol.

Reply to SuperFly03

Quote :

I'm going to google this a bit but does anyone know if a combo drive would be easy to make for these two formats? if that is a possiblity i think both formats will live a vary long life personaly if not be a dual standard of sorts each finding its own nitch.

As far as the combo drive after a little research it looks like they'll be coming out 1H of '07. Only thing to note is that the have to have 2 lenses since they haven't figured out how to make one to read both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray which as noted in the article will raise the price. So tack that on to the already scorching prices of Blu-Ray at $999, (as seen at Best Buy).

NEC Ships Blu-ray / HD-DVD Hybrid Chip

Also found a very interesting article, that Warner Engineers have patented the technology to make not a hybrid disc that could incorporate HD-DVD/Blu-Ray since they use different length deep pits, BR .1mm and HD-DVD .6mm respectively.
This in combination with a HD-DVD/Blu-Ray could be amazing, and for the computer world crazy since you theoretically could store 80GB one disc, or even more in the future w/ BR. if this did happen they could store both formats on one disc and this could mean profits for both blu-ray and hd-dvd and the consumer would not have to worry about what type of player he/she has. this of course would raise prices but could be a compromise.

So HD-DVD-BR. We'll see thats a long way off but cool to see a unification of formats is coming about to make this simpler on the consumer.

Warner Engineers Brainstorm DVD/HD DVD/Blu-ray Hybrid Media, Patent Filed

Reply to IcY18

Quote :

It is true that M$ has put DRM into it, but they are much more reasonable (so far) in their implementation of DRM. Sony has a reputation for being overly restrictive and curtailing legitimate uses of media.

My sentiments exactly. Lesser of two evils! :mrgreen:

Reply to Pintail

Doesnt Intel also support HD DVD? MS and Intel, thats a pretty frightening line up. Sony better have a contingency plan for them...

Reply to Fire_Zealot

Quote :

Doesnt Intel also support HD DVD? MS and Intel, thats a pretty frightening line up. Sony better have a contingency plan for them...

I think so. It seems that the companies break down into 2 camps(obviously HD-DVD and Blue-Ray but not how I am breaking it down :wink: ). Those who are the PC specialists tend towards HD-DVD, and multimedia studios/optical disc makers tend towards Blu-Ray. there are of course a few studios in the HD-DVD camp and a few PC specialists in the Blu-Ray camp, but as a general rule thats how I am seeing it.

Reply to SuperFly03

Hmm, thats a good point. But what does that info mean? What implications does it have?

Reply to Fire_Zealot

Quote :

Hmm, thats a good point. But what does that info mean? What implications does it have?

Good question. Well I think the initial thrust of it will be that 1) Expect to see affordable HD-DVD media/burners prior to Blu-Ray. 2) Expect to see more movies in the Blu-Ray camp until they wizen up and open their movies to HD-DVD.

I don't anticipate this isolation to continue through 2007. 1 of 2 things will happen: 1) One format will actually win or 2) Consumers (PC and multimedia alike) will end up with reasonably priced dual format drives, meaning only a small premium to get both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray in one box. I know each camp is pushing hard, but the Xbox 360's lead, the high price of Blu-Ray, the DRm ambitions of Sony, the affordability of HD-DVD, in general, all point to Blu-Ray taking a subordinate role in the multimedia section of the market but maybe not the PC market. The PC market is extremely concerned with capacity, more so than the multimedia industry (at this point they are just happy with nearly double the capacity of a DL DVD). I think there will be followers (mainly those dumb people who would pay 15k for a PS3) who will swear by Blu-Ray, but if a format wins, I think it will be HD-DVD.

I am calling HD-DVD the likely winner. Feel free to disagree, but Blu-Ray has a long uphill battle to win.

I invite others interpretations (great thread, 4 pages of real discussions).

Reply to SuperFly03

Well, I think HD-DVD will be the winner, just due to price. Video image isn't much different in each format, and pricing will be the ultimate deciding factor. (Of course, Sony misfortune with their standards has nothing to do here :twisted: ).
To the one who said 20-30% price diference, 1300 to 600 is more than 100% and 800-500 is 60% difference.

About the hybrid player, there has been some talking about hybrid players and Dailytech has even posted a story about some company developing an hybrid reader, but seems Sony would be prohibitting the sale of any hybrid players.

On the content, movies will migrate to the format that has more adepts, altough Sony will probably hold tight to BR (reminds me of Titanic, when the captain decide to sink with the ship :wink: ), 'cause it might jeopardize the PS3 (after all, they're marketing it as a complete home-entertainment-computer plataform).

Reply to sviola

I cant disagree. Still, IF Ps3 brand name is enough for people to buy PS3s, then it could get ugly. Every PS3 guy with blu ray, they could make millions. But, with the 360 extra HD DVD player, I call the advantages mute.

I for one think marketing will play a very huge role in the upcoming war...

Reply to Fire_Zealot

What I find interesting in this whole bit is that it honestly seems that both camps are matching every move, or at least attempting to. Kinda analogous to our current political system? both sides slandering each other, yet neither offering a unique message or advantage.

As far as the image quality debacle is going, both discs will eventually be using h.264 AVC compression, which is superior to mpeg2 and VC1 anyways.

I have a feeling this is going to lean heavily towards HD-DVD very soon, especially if a large % of those 7.5 million 360 owners begin to pick up the peripheral drive

Seeing as I haven't taken the HDTV plunge yet, I'll hold off on either player for awhile. (I'm still hopelessly waiting for SED tvs to arrive and become quickly affordable)

Reply to haftarun8

Hmm did my latest posts get deleted? wth is going on?

Reply to SuperFly03

no kidding me too...

Reply to IcY18

Wasn't even anything close to flaming or rudeness going on. I am lost, can any mod shed some light on this?

Reply to SuperFly03

im gonna assume there might have been a server issue. my post was neither vulgar or profane so i think this is a technical issue rather than admin related

Reply to IcY18

I would tend to agree with that. The post actually disappeared from my list of threads I have posted on. It is just so random and it hasn't happened on any other threads that I have participated in, so here's to hoping it is in isolated incident!

Reply to SuperFly03

I am not sure which is better yet, but I believe Samsung is currently working on a dual format machine. If you have a high def video card you can plug in a Xbox 360 DRive to you pc and watch High def content. Being that the drive is $200 its a cheap way to become an early adopter.

Reply to ottopw

HD-DVD for me. What put me over the edge was that HD-DVD is region free (currently) and Blu-ray is not. If HD-DVD implements some kind of region coding in the future, I'll likely purchase a dual format player...but the ability to import what I want from where I want made my decision for me. (I believe there's a small chance that region coding will implemented in future models, and I believe there's an even smaller chance that it will be implemented in such a way that would impact current players.

Also, unrelated, but I was at the Kawasaki Yodobashi Camera, and they had "Brave Story" playing on a Blu-ray player, on a 1080p Sony. (It's an anime movie) I was amazed at the video noise. It was really, really bad looking. In close ups of the character's face, with probably 10 total unique colors on the screen at times, there was really bad blocking, and motion looked bad as well. I don't know if it was related to the codec used, or what...but Brave Story is also out for HD-DVD, and I will NOT be picking it up after seeing what it looked like on Blu-ray. (Does anyone know if this is a problem related to 2D animation for both formats, or just Blu-ray or just the codec used for Brave Story?)

Reply to peteer01

currently using DVD's

too expensive, market undecided

see u next year

Reply to caskachan

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Also, Blue-Ray cost way too much. I laughed when I saw the price for ONE! I'm cheap and I don't like to pay for expensive things unless I'm getting quality, like how long will it exist with my little sister's fingers and what knot.

Lol, I prefer blu-ray. Over at Fry's you can get a blu-ray movie for like $25. Dude, I can't even get most of my Anime DVDs that cheap!

Reply to Dante_Jose_Cuervo

blu ray could vry well win the war simply because more space per layer and more studios supporting it, but it seems both formats will be sticking around as said before, and if i ever do get an hd player, most likely it will be the hd dvd attachment for the 360

Reply to ryokinshin

Quote :

blu ray could vry well win the war simply because more space per layer and more studios supporting it, but it seems both formats will be sticking around as said before, and if i ever do get an hd player, most likely it will be the hd dvd attachment for the 360

I really don't think Blu-Ray is in a great position to take the market, too much bad stigma related to the name and the PS3. It is no secret that the PS3 was delayed by an entire year because of Blu-Ray and the associated manufacturing difficulties. Also, the sheer cost of the players and associated media is 20-30% more than a HD-DVD player at this point, excluding the awesomely affordable Xbox 360 attachment (which is about oh 20% of the cost of a Blu-Ray player). Also the DRM in practice is likely to be more restrictive than HD-DVD, I realize that they both have DRM, but Sony has a knack for screwing up implementation of products, and being overly aggressive with DRM because they own movie studios. I haven't seen any trustworthy cost figures, but if HD-DVD can get the price of a dual layer HD-DVD down close, if not below, the cost of a Blu-Ray disc then Sony is in real trouble. The jump in resolution is the biggest space user (as far as I know) so the question then becomes, do you really expect resolutions on TVs to increase much form 1080p in the next 5 years?

DVD's started their rise around 2000, and we are seeing them being replaced in less than 6 years. Granted, DVD's won't be wiped out in the next year, but they are definitely in the mature phase of their life cycle and making the transition slowly into the decline phase. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are gearing up, but don't expect them to last more than 5-7 years.

Reply to SuperFly03

I like Blu-Ray for storage. It's the largest of the 2. One thing I like about HD-DVD though is the ability to burn standard DVD data on it and it is then backwards compatible. I've seen movies that contain both HD-DVD and Standard DVD on the same disk and plays in any DVD/HD DVD player. That's another thing to keep in mind. Backwards compatibility is always nice.

Reply to atp777

Quote :

...Rant done. Winner-whoever makes a disc that doesnt scratch so #@$#en easily!

In that case, HD-DVD will win. It has a .5mm thicker plasticy thing (.6mm vs. Blu-Ray's .1mm).

I myself voted for HD-DVD for that reason and one other. Microsoft supports HD-DVD and everything MS touches is either a complete failure (XBox360 in Japan, Windows Vista's system resources usage, etc) or gold (Xbox360 everywhere else, DX10, etc). HD-DVD doesn't seem to be a failure yet, so unless they make a monstrous blunder, my money would be on HD-DVD.

Edit: For videophiles, HD-DVD is also superior. HD-DVD uses tue HD- h264 or whatever it's called. Blu-ray uses MPEG-2, a video format over 10 years old!

Furthermore, for backup of data,nothing beats an external hard drive. Compare a 750 gig external hard drive to a Blue-Ray or HD-DVD burner ($750) and the burnable discs themselves (I think around 10 bucks a piece for the 25 gig ones), it's just way more feasable and easier to use an external hard drive anyway.

Reply to Grinch123456

I'm going to vote Blu-ray for very simple reasons.

1) HD-DVD got a good headstart and got players out early and for a relatively good price. However I've checked every Best Buy, Target, Wal-mart, Comp-USA and Circuit City in my area (some on a daily basis). I've only seen an HD-DVD player in one shop on launch day. Since then I haven't even seen shelf space for any HD-DVD player (not even a floor model).

2) Blu-Ray got a slow start is relatively expensive, but when people look around for the new HD player its the only one around. If I didn't know HD-DVD players existed I would have thought Blu-Ray was the DEFAULT. Granted I've only seen two Blu-Ray players used as floor models but that's two moe than I've seen of HD-DVD. Every now and again I actually see Blu-Ray players for sale.

3) Both formats started off with equal shelf space, but the HD-DVD formated movies have been harder to locate recently in any except Circuit City and Blu-Ray disk can be found even when there are no players available.

4) I don't know how many HD-DVD players are in consumer homes, but I do know there are at least 300k Blu-Ray players in consumer homes right now. Given that both had extremely slow rollouts I'm guessing the HD-DVD players aren't that numerous

5) The average consumer can't tell the difference in the quality so they are going to go with whats available or whats cheapest...and in my area that's Blu-ray. Its going to be a special occasion only purchase (like oh say the upcoming holiday) because of the price. But when your selection is $1k Blu-ray player in front of you or a $500 HD-DVD that you can't find anywhere nearby...your choice becomes Blu-ray or nothing.

6) Lots of people don't want to admit this but a $500-$600 Blu-ray player that plays games is still a blu-ray player. Once the PS3 comes out in greater availability mom and pop will crunch the numbers (1k vs 600) and say "its for the kids" *wink* *wink*

7) The X-box 360 HD-DVD add on will appeal to hardcore gamers who want to see HD-DVD and that's a small portion of the 360 market let alone the HD market.

8) for the BCP (be cheap permentantly) people who get suckered into the battle they are probably going to grab HD-DVD online (maybe amazon), but the majority will be lazy and want to grab one from a brick and mortar store....which again. leaves one choice.

Today is not like 30 years ago. Consumers are much more willing to pickup and adapt new technology, but they have to know its there and available.

Unless HD-DVD really ramps up its visibility its going to being the BetaMax of this generation.

Reply to kcrush

www.thedvdwars.com

Just FYI for anyone who didn't know about. My thoughts on HD-DVD vs BR are in my prior post above.

Reply to peteer01

Blue-Ray or HD-DVD - Page 2

Forum Storage : Optical Media - Blue-Ray or HD-DVD

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