Blue-Ray or HD-DVD - Page 4 - Optical-Media

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BTW, THG did article that totally backs up my point about Sony's proprietary format hell and heavy-handed pushing of said proprietary formats.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/12/06/ [...] scussions/

Quote :

Sony has a history of starting media format wars that ultimately end in failure for the electronics giant. Betamax failed to capture significant market share in the period between VHS and DVD, MiniDisc and the Super Audio CD (SACD) got very little support from companies other than Sony. And UMD for PSP, with a defined limited audience, proved to be a less-than-worthwhile venture for movie studios. The fear among consumers is that history might repeat itself and they are concerned that Blu-ray will die off like previous ventures from Sony, according to the Cymphony report.

"While the media and manufacturers duke it out over their format choice, our research shows that consumers are turning away from Blu-ray because of Sony's reputation and heavy-handed launch strategy," said Cymphony in its report.

The article is not one-sided (read it for more detail), but that sums up my opinion on why HD-DVD is better for everybody involved (besides Sony).

Reply to dean7

Register or log in to remove.

Actualy the ps3 is a single core cpu with smp's you can confuse with cores but arent actualy cores.

I assume the xbox uses three cores

1. for os and low load code
2. AI
3. physics

now thats defanitly not 100% accurate i just wanted to show some load balance. that adn adding a 4th core would have cost more.

Just keep in mind though the cell cpu in the ps3 like the 3 core in the xbox is a extreamly stripped version of any real cpu anyone would buy for a computer mearly to keep costs down. so its likely they are complaining about cell as in ps3 cell (i know duh of course they are because they are complaining about the ps3)

Reply to EnFoRceR22

Yes, IBM designed the 360, PS3(helped make) and Wii CPUs. ATI got the 360 and Wii, with Nvidia making the RSX(PS3) GPU.

As much as people say that blu ray hanges on the PS3, I think its more the opposite. Blu Ray will be helped by the PS3, yes, but it isnt dependant on it. On the other hand, if blu ray falls, PS3 falls. SOny will a disc type than only they use, one that wont be utalized by game devolpers, and one that they will have to pay loads to build.

Reply to Fire_Zealot

The image of Blu-Ray has been tained by the numerous delays and problems that were reported for the PS3. If the PS3 had never been launched or was launched without all the delays and production problems Blu-Ray would have a cleen slate with the first bad impression. Cause we all the know the first impression is the most lasting one. It was bad enough that people were fed up with sony to begin with to top it off they had numerous problems and delays only to make things worse.

In reality this problem with the PS3 has nothing to do with regular Blu-Ray players and their problems but unfortunately in the customers eye that doesn't matter. it only takes a few bad rumors to make a product that was already under fire go bad.

Reply to IcY18

Yeah Sony's in trouble. Check this out from the CEO:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/co [...] index.html

He is a moron, doesn't touch root kit, and that makes me doubt his integrity as a leader.

Also, check some of this info out:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/30/ [...] re_movies/
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Son [...] 1805.shtml

BS like the rootkit and Sony's heavy-handed DRM just pisses me off and makes me not want to buy anything Sony. It also makes me think that they are not going to be around for much longer if they can't redesign themselves. Plus, their executives are legendary for their internal fighting.

Reply to dean7

There simply is no need for Blue-Ray in the media player market. An HD-DVD can hold 5 hours of the highest quality high def video on a single disk, name me a movie that needs longer then this pls!

The end result will largely be dictated by price, and Blue-Ray can never will that battle.

Reply to jamesgoddard

Quote :

I think the biggest problem is cost for the consumer. I dont want to spend 35-40 bucks on a movie!

Also, Ken Katuragi(SP) has said that PS3 games could cost more than 60 bucks, but never over 100. Over 60? Eeeck!

Well one thing to consider is that a $500 premium Xbox with a $200 HD-DVD player = $700. That's pretty comparable to a PS3 which has more powerful hardware and a better sales history. Still, the 1 year lead that Xbox 360 has, has really hurt the PS3. Oh, and aren't some Xbox 360 games more than $60? I seem to recall seeing Gears of War for $69.99 at Gamestop...I saved $10 and got the used version. :-P

True about the movies being too expensive though. Doesn't mean it'll stop us ungodly wealthy American's from being morons and buying them. Just look at how much we're willing to spend on the top of the line processor...

Who the fuk spends $1100 on a CPU when they can get a comparable one for 1/8th of that price? I'd understand it if that $1100 CPU wasn't junk (priced at about 1/16th of the cost) in 2 years.

Reply to RyanMicah

Quote :

There simply is no need for Blue-Ray in the media player market. An HD-DVD can hold 5 hours of the highest quality high def video on a single disk, name me a movie that needs longer then this pls!

The end result will largely be dictated by price, and Blue-Ray can never will that battle.

The idea is that I can burn 10 HD movies to a single disk...or that I could use a couple of Blu-Ray DVD's for backing up my entire media collection. Don't limit the capabilities of a disk to just one use. Think broader. "Imagine the possibilities." Hey, isn't that someone's slogan?

Reply to RyanMicah

Oh and one more thing if you didn't think Sony was in trouble, check this out:
http://www.informationarbitrage.co [...] re_in.html

Quote :

In an interview with NPR late last week, Sony BMG’s Global Digital Business President Thomas Hesse downplayed the recent DRM fiasco saying he objected to terms such as malware, spyware and rootkit. “Most people, I think, don’t even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?” he said.

What a freaking jerk. Are you going to infect people with an obscure virus that causes their hair to fall out because "people don't know what it is, so why should they care about it"?

Quote :

Dell and Sony knew about and discussed manufacturing problems with Sony-made Lithium-Ion batteries as long as ten months ago, but held off on issuing a recall until those flaws were clearly linked to catastrophic failures causing those batteries to catch fire, a Sony Electronics spokesman said Friday.

Spokesman Rick Clancy said the companies had conversations in October 2005 and again in February 2006. Discussions were about the problem of small metal particles that had contaminated Lithium-Ion battery cells manufactured by Sony, causing batteries to fail and, in some cases, overheat.

As a result of those conversations, Sony made changes to its manufacturing process to minimize the presence and size of the particles in its batteries. However, the company did not recall batteries that it thought might contain the particles because it wasn’t clear that they were dangerous, Clancy said.

“We didn’t have confirmation of incidents [involving fires] until relatively recently. We received reports, but didn’t know if there were environmental situations not related to the systems themselves,” he said. “Different measures were taken in February and in October [2005] to further ensure that there were as few of these particles as possible and that they were as small as possible.”

Yeah... I think that one is self-explanatory.

Quote :

In news coming out of Japan this week, Sony has apparently delayed again the release of its stand-alone BDP-S1 Blu-ray Disc player to December or possibly not till 2007. The player was scheduled to due to arrive on retailers shelves this week. Originally, the BDP-S1 was due out in July, but was postponed until August, then to October 25.

Apparently, the delay seems to have been a strategic decision that is based on availability of blue laser diode supplies rather than any trouble with the player - unlike the problems that Samsung has recently encountered. As early as a year ago, it was speculated by several journalists and industry insiders that Sony would have problems delivering both PS3 and a stand-alone Blu-ray Disc player. Not surprisingly, the Blu-ray diode used in the BDP-S1 is the same one used in Sony’s PlayStation 3 game console, which is set for release on November 17. According to experts and analysts in Consumer Electronics, there simply doesn’t seem to be enough parts to go around.

My point with all this is simple: WTF is wrong with Sony? Do they have a bunch of chimpanzees running the show or what? Don't tell me that rootkit's don't matter, and don't tell me everything is fine because Sony deserves to take a beating for their stupidity.

Perhaps the 20,000 layoffs that started in 2003 (I believe) will help them out, making their company leaner and more agile (possibly?) but I really think they need to just oust all of their management to get things back on track. It's clear that their engineers can come up with new ideas (e.g. some of their "cool" ultra portable PCs), but I'm not buying jack until they are less evil.

Reply to dean7

Quote :

In reality this problem with the PS3 has nothing to do with regular Blu-Ray players and their problems but unfortunately in the customers eye that doesn't matter. it only takes a few bad rumors to make a product that was already under fire go bad.

I think that the reason Blu-Ray hinges on PS3 so much is because the PS3 is the cheapest Blu-Ray player "availible" at the moment. If stand alone players were in the same price region, or even a little below, I don't think there would be this stigma that has developed against Blu-Ray. It is amazing how such a small thing and have such a powerful impact.

-dean7

You and I are on the same page, ***k Sony and thier DRM! lol. I've also had 3 or 4 horrendous products which ultimately failed and I just replaced instead of fixing. Their support sucks, thier philosphy of supremacy that has developed over the past 10-12 years is now being shot down because they haven't kept mobile, instead they are rigid and stolid thinking their way is the only way.

Reply to SuperFly03

Quote :

There simply is no need for Blue-Ray in the media player market. An HD-DVD can hold 5 hours of the highest quality high def video on a single disk, name me a movie that needs longer then this pls!

The end result will largely be dictated by price, and Blue-Ray can never will that battle.

The idea is that I can burn 10 HD movies to a single disk...or that I could use a couple of Blu-Ray DVD's for backing up my entire media collection. Don't limit the capabilities of a disk to just one use. Think broader. "Imagine the possibilities." Hey, isn't that someone's slogan?

I was just about to say that.

@dean7

Welcome to my thread i love the insight you bring to threads and you bring up alot of reading (i hate being lazy) and good points. Defanitly some thinking to do there.

Now i realise most people say large companys wont just die off but large companys that screw up over and over and constantly take loss's over many years can. I totaly agree with you there dean if sony doesnt get off thier ass and just bring out these new (imo way better formats) with out attaching alot of bs every single time they will find them selves being part of amd-ati (sarcasm but you know what i mean)

Reply to EnFoRceR22

Quote :

There simply is no need for Blue-Ray in the media player market. An HD-DVD can hold 5 hours of the highest quality high def video on a single disk, name me a movie that needs longer then this pls!

The end result will largely be dictated by price, and Blue-Ray can never will that battle.

The idea is that I can burn 10 HD movies to a single disk...or that I could use a couple of Blu-Ray DVD's for backing up my entire media collection. Don't limit the capabilities of a disk to just one use. Think broader. "Imagine the possibilities." Hey, isn't that someone's slogan?
Uh, yeah, right now we are talking about the difference between 30GB and 50GB.

Plus, if you want to back your data up, why don't you look at this data first.

One 25GB BD-R disc: $13.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817131061

One 250GB HDD: $79.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822144701

Price-per-gig for BD-R: $.56 (rounded up to nearest cent)
Price-per-gig for HDD: $.32 (rounded up to nearest cent)

Now, with this we are just talking about media. But what about a blu-ray player/recorder?

One BD-R recorder (cheapest on Newegg): $599.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827106037

So, for 250GB of HDD space you are looking at $79.99.
For 250GB of BD-R space you are looking at $739.89.

I must be small-minded because I just can't "imagine the possibilities" of this technology being anything but bleak with that kind of data.

Reply to dean7

Quote :

Oh and one more thing if you didn't think Sony was in trouble, check this out:
http://www.informationarbitrage.co [...] re_in.html

In an interview with NPR late last week, Sony BMG’s Global Digital Business President Thomas Hesse downplayed the recent DRM fiasco saying he objected to terms such as malware, spyware and rootkit. “Most people, I think, don’t even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?” he said.

What a freaking jerk. Are you going to infect people with an obscure virus that causes their hair to fall out because "people don't know what it is, so why should they care about it"?

Quote :

Dell and Sony knew about and discussed manufacturing problems with Sony-made Lithium-Ion batteries as long as ten months ago, but held off on issuing a recall until those flaws were clearly linked to catastrophic failures causing those batteries to catch fire, a Sony Electronics spokesman said Friday.

Spokesman Rick Clancy said the companies had conversations in October 2005 and again in February 2006. Discussions were about the problem of small metal particles that had contaminated Lithium-Ion battery cells manufactured by Sony, causing batteries to fail and, in some cases, overheat.

As a result of those conversations, Sony made changes to its manufacturing process to minimize the presence and size of the particles in its batteries. However, the company did not recall batteries that it thought might contain the particles because it wasn’t clear that they were dangerous, Clancy said.

“We didn’t have confirmation of incidents [involving fires] until relatively recently. We received reports, but didn’t know if there were environmental situations not related to the systems themselves,” he said. “Different measures were taken in February and in October [2005] to further ensure that there were as few of these particles as possible and that they were as small as possible.”

Yeah... I think that one is self-explanatory.

I don't know about you, but I'd just as soon not be a guinea pig. If they want to test explosive electrical storage devices on animals, they should use emu. Emu is tasty.

Reply to RyanMicah

Tecnicly if you buy hte first gen of any product you are in fact a guinea pig. The first year or so of any new product can be considered the live beta to put it one way of any product.

Reply to EnFoRceR22

Well, I really hope Sony gets it's head out of it's rear as a company. I have said it before and I'll say it again: they need to keep their engineers and fire their managers. After working in organizations with 10,000+ employees, the rootkit fiasco screams "corporate managerial BS" to me. E.G. the engineers were probably like "this is a bad idea, sir" and managers were like "pshaw, come on, the users will never know and we gotta spy on 'em!"

Reply to dean7

I'm sure the people making the product and know its top of the heep want to see it go out with no hitchs.

But your right those over paid retards that run the show are what 99% of the time ruin inovation with the most stupid ideas such as the rootkit.

Reply to EnFoRceR22

Premium 360 is $399 + $199 for the HD-DVD option = ~$600, and $500 for the core version. I made the point earlier that very few people will buy the 360 with the intent to watch only HD-DVD's on it, if they want that they will get a HD-DVD player since they are, in fact, cheaper than a 360. The point with the 360 is HD camp's ability to turn those 360's in actual HD-DVD players instead of potential HD-DVD players. Conversely, people will buy a PS3 intending to use it soley as a Blu-Ray player if prices continue as they are now.

360 games are $59.99, collectors editions and limited edition BS is what is over $60, but given that game prices haven't increased in 4-6 years I amnot surprised at the bump to $60 but anything over that is ridiculous. Xbox games were orginally always $49.99, as far as I remember, and even PS2 before them, so a 20% price increase isn't horrible given the time frame in question.

Reply to SuperFly03

Quote :

There simply is no need for Blue-Ray in the media player market. An HD-DVD can hold 5 hours of the highest quality high def video on a single disk, name me a movie that needs longer then this pls!

The end result will largely be dictated by price, and Blue-Ray can never will that battle.

The idea is that I can burn 10 HD movies to a single disk...or that I could use a couple of Blu-Ray DVD's for backing up my entire media collection. Don't limit the capabilities of a disk to just one use. Think broader. "Imagine the possibilities." Hey, isn't that someone's slogan?
Uh, yeah, right now we are talking about the difference between 30GB and 50GB.

Plus, if you want to back your data up, why don't you look at this data first.

One 25GB BD-R disc: $13.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817131061

One 250GB HDD: $79.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822144701

Price-per-gig for BD-R: $.56 (rounded up to nearest cent)
Price-per-gig for HDD: $.32 (rounded up to nearest cent)

Now, with this we are just talking about media. But what about a blu-ray player/recorder?

One BD-R recorder (cheapest on Newegg): $599.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827106037

So, for 250GB of HDD space you are looking at $79.99.
For 250GB of BD-R space you are looking at $739.89.

I must be small-minded because I just can't "imagine the possibilities" of this technology being anything but bleak with that kind of data.

Media and data are the same thing. Data is data. The idea behind DVD's is that they are disposable, easily copied and carried. Flash memory is in a word, awesome. It's the future. But to get there it seems we have to have a digital media rights tug of war between the empires. Everyone wants to have exclusive rights to sell what consumers want, entertainment. Long live Napster! :-D The truth is that story telling and self expression through art is over-rated. Actors and singers are simply...overpaid. I don't want to hear the counter-argument about how they have to pay uber bucks to their agents and taxes either. I'd love to get taxed a quarter million dollars and bankroll an agent another quarter million if it means I take home $400,000 a year. Imagine the possibilities....

Reply to RyanMicah

Quote :

-dean7

You and I are on the same page, ***k Sony and thier DRM! lol. I've also had 3 or 4 horrendous products which ultimately failed and I just replaced instead of fixing. Their support sucks, thier philosphy of supremacy that has developed over the past 10-12 years is now being shot down because they haven't kept mobile, instead they are rigid and stolid thinking their way is the only way.

Yeah... suing the crap out of your customers and spying on them is no way to act. What pisses me off is that things do not have to be this way! Sony doesn't have to do crap like rootkit/drm/a bunch of proprietary formats to protect themselves. They would sell more if they put those research dollars into better products.

The example I always use is Oblivion... it has done great as a game, and it has 0 DRM. I don't even think you have to enter a CD key (it's been a while since I installed it on PC). Has it hurt Bethesda? Hell no.

Reply to dean7

Quote :

Premium 360 is $399 + $199 for the HD-DVD option = ~$600, and $500 for the core version. I made the point earlier that very few people will buy the 360 with the intent to watch only HD-DVD's on it, if they want that they will get a HD-DVD player since they are, in fact, cheaper than a 360. The point with the 360 is HD camp's ability to turn those 360's in actual HD-DVD players instead of potential HD-DVD players. Conversely, people will buy a PS3 intending to use it soley as a Blu-Ray player if prices continue as they are now.

360 games are $59.99, collectors editions and limited edition BS is what is over $60, but given that game prices haven't increased in 4-6 years I amnot surprised at the bump to $60 but anything over that is ridiculous. Xbox games were orginally always $49.99, as far as I remember, and even PS2 before them, so a 20% price increase isn't horrible given the time frame in question.

Eh, I don't pay that much attention because half a grand is a half grand. $100 isn't going to sway my decision. What's funny is that I bought a 360 last week and don't remember how much I paid. :-P

Reply to RyanMicah

Quote :

Well, I really hope Sony gets it's head out of it's rear as a company. I have said it before and I'll say it again: they need to keep their engineers and fire their managers. After working in organizations with 10,000+ employees, the rootkit fiasco screams "corporate managerial BS" to me. E.G. the engineers were probably like "this is a bad idea, sir" and managers were like "pshaw, come on, the users will never know and we gotta spy on 'em!"

And we have a winner. That is my feeling as well, Sony can design some of the best stuff, but then take it a step too far and do something that no reasonable person would think to do. "Hey let's add a root kit to this CD," WTF? "Hey, let's add a blacklist to Blu-Ray players and disable them," WTF? "Hey, let's conceal the fact we know our batteries are bad and hope no one can correlate the 2," WTF? "Hey, let's limit online chat ability in the PS3 to text," WTF, how is that chat? "Hey, we are Sony we rule the world," WTF, doesn't Wal-Mart do that? lol.

Reply to SuperFly03

Haha, silly people. 8O

Reply to SuperFly03

Quote :

Well, I really hope Sony gets it's head out of it's rear as a company. I have said it before and I'll say it again: they need to keep their engineers and fire their managers. After working in organizations with 10,000+ employees, the rootkit fiasco screams "corporate managerial BS" to me. E.G. the engineers were probably like "this is a bad idea, sir" and managers were like "pshaw, come on, the users will never know and we gotta spy on 'em!"

And we have a winner. That is my feeling as well, Sony can design some of the best stuff, but then take it a step too far and do something that no reasonable person would think to do. "Hey let's add a root kit to this CD," WTF? "Hey, let's add a blacklist to Blu-Ray players and disable them," WTF? "Hey, let's conceal the fact we know our batteries are bad and hope no one can correlate the 2," WTF? "Hey, let's limit online chat ability in the PS3 to text," WTF, how is that chat? "Hey, we are Sony we rule the world," WTF, doesn't Wal-Mart do that? lol.

McDonalds did it first. Isn't it interesting how NYC is banning trans-fat? Crazy eh? I'm not especially fond of smoking either...with this latest ban, does this means there might be fewer ash-tray breath fat chicks driving around NYC on cell phones!

BTW Dean, I loved your point about Bethesda. Great point. What these companies are going to see is that limiting and abusing consumers will eventually hurt them. Take for instance Maxtor. Most of us think of it as a brand to steer clear of. If flash drives are offered up by several companies, who's going to run out and buy a Maxtor? Not I. A reputation is everything. One bad stain can ruin future sales.

Reply to RyanMicah

Quote :

Media and data are the same thing. Data is data. The idea behind DVD's is that they are disposable, easily copied and carried. Flash memory is in a word, awesome. It's the future. But to get there it seems we have to have a digital media rights tug of war between the empires. Everyone wants to have exclusive rights to sell what consumers want, entertainment. Long live Napster! :-D The truth is that story telling and self expression through art is over-rated. Actors and singers are simply...overpaid. I don't want to hear the counter-argument about how they have to pay uber bucks to their agents and taxes either. I'd love to get taxed a quarter million dollars and bankroll an agent another quarter million if it means I take home $400,000 a year. Imagine the possibilities....

No, media and data are not the same thing. I wasn't using the word in the "multimedia" sense, I was using it in the storage medium sense. Check the definition for medium (media is plural for medium):

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=medium

Now check data:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/data

Data is what you store on media (in the sense that I was using the word). Media has other meanings and I can see how you would confuse what I was saying so it's no biggie.

Reply to dean7

And isn't it sad that after so many blemishes on Sony's rep people still trust it?

Reply to SuperFly03

Well I guess I'm not sure what your point was then. :-P My point is that Sony and M$ are vying for more than format control, they're vying for future MEDIA control. :-D To the winner of the format control goes the spoils. They both want to have exclusive rights to not only which DVD format is mainstream, but which rootkits/drm's are used. Total control is what this war is about. I'm not the first one here who's said it, but I'm perhaps the most blunt about it. Yes, the anti-drug guy said blunt. :roll:

Reply to RyanMicah

Quote :

And isn't it sad that after so many blemishes on Sony's rep people still trust it?

I USED to trust Sony. Hell when I was a wee youngster we had companies like Sankyo, Onkyo, Yamaha, Sharp, Panasonic, Pioneer and Bose and...SONY. Sony kind of put the others to rest over the years. But with this? Hmm. Tastes like iron in my mouth. I do not like the bit.

Reply to RyanMicah

Nova, you are clearly uninformed. Listen to this on NPR and hear what your precious Sony people sound like. That guy from Sony sounds like a total jerk!

http://www.npr.org/templates/story [...] Id=4989260

Oh, and WTF does hating MS have to do with Blu-Ray? Just because they have HD-DVD for XB360?

Reply to dean7

Quote :

its cool and i hate microsoft.

OMG, how can you dislike M$??? :-P

Reply to RyanMicah

Quote :

Well I guess I'm not sure what your point was then. :-P My point is that Sony and M$ are vying for more than format control, they're vying for future MEDIA control. :-D To the winner of the format control goes the spoils. They both want to have exclusive rights to not only which DVD format is mainstream, but which rootkits/drm's are used. Total control is what this war is about. I'm not the first one here who's said it, but I'm perhaps the most blunt about it. Yes, the anti-drug guy said blunt. :roll:

Well, I was just pointing out that the prices at that point were just for the storage medium, and with Blu-Ray you don't need just the medium. You also need a player. Make sense now?

Reply to dean7

Quote :

its cool and i hate microsoft.

OMG, how can you dislike M$??? :-P
Judge rules...

OFF TOPIC!

Reply to dean7

Quote :

Well I guess I'm not sure what your point was then. :-P My point is that Sony and M$ are vying for more than format control, they're vying for future MEDIA control. :-D To the winner of the format control goes the spoils. They both want to have exclusive rights to not only which DVD format is mainstream, but which rootkits/drm's are used. Total control is what this war is about. I'm not the first one here who's said it, but I'm perhaps the most blunt about it. Yes, the anti-drug guy said blunt. :roll:

Well, I was just pointing out that the prices at that point were just for the storage medium, and with Blu-Ray you don't need just the medium. You also need a player. Make sense now?

Kinda. I'm kinda daft. :-P

Uhh, 50gb's vs 30gb's. Shouldn't 50gb's cost more? Here's a thought for everyone...

A movie and a video game that are both excellent. Sold on one DVD. :-) Of course, Hollywood hasn't presented us with too many solid movies based on games or games based on movies...but it CAN be done. Just look at Lego StarWars! :-P

Reply to RyanMicah

Quote :

its cool and i hate microsoft.

OMG, how can you dislike M$??? :-P
Judge rules...

OFF TOPIC!

Yay, you get to add a post to your 800+ posts! Your point was? Mine was that pretty much all of us have issues with M$. I'm not allowed to be sarcastic master?

Reply to RyanMicah

Quote :

its cool and i hate microsoft.

OMG, how can you dislike M$??? :-P
Judge rules...

OFF TOPIC!

Yay, you get to add a post to your 800+ posts! Your point was? Mine was that pretty much all of us have issues with M$. I'm not allowed to be sarcastic master?
My point was just that the whole "MS is evil" topic will inevitably lead to flamewars. Plus, it was completely arbitrary bringing MS into this. It's like me saying:

"Yeah, I like HD-DVD, which brings me to my next point: SUN MICRO SYSTEMS TOTALLY SUCKS!"

It's off-topic, uncalled for, and would require a new thread to explore in any detail.

Reply to dean7

Quote :

Blue Ray all the way. Better performance

Ok... initial read speed of data is the same on both formats. Audio/VIdeo read speed is 1.5 on Blu-Ray and 1 on HD-DVD, so yes it is faster but what is the advantage if the read speed is in excess of the max video codec rate?

Quote :

the ray is smaller so can pack more and more data like 4 times HD-DVD

The ray is the exact same on both formats, it is the numeic apeture and track pitch that is different and the capccity differential is 15GB per layer (HD-DVD) vs. 25GB per layer on Blu-Ray, so not 4x although it is a significant extrapolated differential. However, since we are only dealing with single and dual layer as economicly feasible at this point, the differential is not as significant.

Quote :

its completly new as HD-DVD makes use of older and well known technology (like intel and their loser FSB)

It makes use of smilar stamping processes therefore is cheaper. What is wrong with well known tech that actually works and still has growth potential?

Last time I checked Intel > AMD currently. FSB is just the communication between the CPU and the memory and as long as it can scale and isn't saturated, there aren't any glaring issues with it.

Quote :

better DRM technology for safer data, more movies compagnies backing it, its cool and i hate microsoft.

If you hate M$ that is your business. Better DRM = more restrictive in your mind I guess, which will inturn lead to the curtailing of legitimate uses of the media outside whatever Sony desides is right.....

As for more movie companies backing it.... most of the non-Sony subsidaries are playing both camps.

Reply to SuperFly03

Quote :

its cool and i hate microsoft.

OMG, how can you dislike M$??? :-P
Judge rules...

OFF TOPIC!

Yay, you get to add a post to your 800+ posts! Your point was? Mine was that pretty much all of us have issues with M$. I'm not allowed to be sarcastic master?
My point was just that the whole "MS is evil" topic will inevitably lead to flamewars. Plus, it was completely arbitrary bringing MS into this. It's like me saying:

"Yeah, I like HD-DVD, which brings me to my next point: SUN MICRO SYSTEMS TOTALLY SUCKS!"

It's off-topic, uncalled for, and would require a new thread to explore in any detail.

Well due to the sarcastic tone of my comment, I doubt he'd have actually taken it any further and disposed of M$ in detail. However, with your silly response to my comment instead of just replying to him...we've managed to lead off on a questionable conversation. So let's just end it here, shall we? :-P BTW, I'm a smiley junkie. WTF.

Reply to RyanMicah

Yeah. Sony is the principal backer and the literal image of Blu-Ray, but M$ is just another partner in the HD-DVD camp, along with such titans as Intel. M$ hasn't been the name inevitably linked to HD-DVD. With Vista, the 360, and things of that nature out, HD-DVD is just another line item on M$'s investment sheet.

Judge Rules (in the absence of the OP)....

Back to technical discussion of the formats! 8O

Reply to SuperFly03

True SF. I used the word disliked instead of hate too, signifying that I dislike M$ for several things, but one has to look at the good stuff too. Flight Sim, Halo, AOE are great, although perfection isn't there, it's not expected. Halo2 just got jacked. =\ A fantastic game ruined by hackers, not necessarily M$'s fault. Then you have all the good business software and the advances in OS software too. M$ may not have all the great new ideas, but they are responsible for a lot of today's software ideas. Even Apple has borrowed ideas from them I'm sure. And then there's Bill Gates, who knows what his money might do when he dies. He may be funding the cure for AIDS. I saw him on tv talking about it once. Anyone see that segment?

Reply to RyanMicah

BTW, after 7 pages of posts on a topic that has at least three seperate OP's. I think it's safe to lead off a little bit in discussion don't you? It's not like others can't chime in. Besides, it's mostly just us regulars giving our 2c's.

Reply to RyanMicah

I dont personaly have issues with MS aside them turning windows vista into a sony DRM type piece of software. The more they try lock down windows with "anti-piracy" the less i like it.

The guy who doesnt like HD-DVD because of MS i have no idea why did MS create the whole thing on thier own and want to take over the world with it?

@superfly

I think the read speads on either drive when it comes to movies is almost irrelavent to the point it can play the movie at real time speed. However when it comes to data the faster then better

Now im not typicaly one to care about costs when it comes to computers as long as i have the best i can get at the time of buying but the prices for these drives and media on both sides is stupid. Even though sony costs more (i say sony because thats how people are reffering to blue-ray) but HD DVD isnt exactly cheap either.

Making a hybrid drive from everything i have been reading from blue ray, hd dvd, dvd doesnt seem to be to hard. hopefully they make a reader and a writer for both then we can all only worry about if what you want is available in a high def format knowing your system is capable of handling anything your "forced" to buy.

It will also be interesting to see where this goes with DVD being able to hold 1TB of data if that comes out in enough quantity i would say these formats would have some compatition with a "older tech"

Reply to EnFoRceR22

Quote :

True SF. I used the word disliked instead of hate too, signifying that I dislike M$ for several things, but one has to look at the good stuff too. Flight Sim, Halo, AOE are great, although perfection isn't there, it's not expected. Halo2 just got jacked. =\ A fantastic game ruined by hackers, not necessarily M$'s fault. Then you have all the good business software and the advances in OS software too. M$ may not have all the great new ideas, but they are responsible for a lot of today's software ideas. Even Apple has borrowed ideas from them I'm sure. And then there's Bill Gates, who knows what his money might do when he dies. He may be funding the cure for AIDS. I saw him on tv talking about it once. Anyone see that segment?

You really have no clue about Bill Gates do you??? Haha. Check this out homie:

http://www.gatesfoundation.com/default.htm

Quote :

Bill and Melinda Gates contribute nearly $16 billion to the foundations, which move from offices in Bill Gates Sr.’s basement to a new facility in Seattle.

Bill and Melinda gave tons of their money to the Gates foundation. If you want to attack MS, don't attack Bill Gates because he is actually a cool guy.

Reply to dean7

And if you are a Steve Jobs fan that disses on Bill Gates, don't even f'ing get me started!

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/po [...] -6062.html

Quote :

Gates is giving away his fortune with the same gusto he spent acquiring it, throwing billions of dollars at solving global health problems. He has also spoken out on major policy issues, for example, by opposing proposals to cut back the inheritance tax.

In contrast, Jobs does not appear on any charitable contribution lists of note. And Jobs has said nary a word on behalf of important social issues, reserving his talents of persuasion for selling Apple products

Plus, Jobs doesn't give a crap about the environment. Greenpeace rated Apple dead last on their list of environmentally friendly tech companies. All Steve Jobs cares about is making money.

Reply to dean7

I dont remember the exact ammount but didnt he also give 2 or 4 billion to the united negro college fund also?

Anyone who hates bill gates seriously doesnt like computers. With out mr gates i doubt they would have come nearly as far as they have so far.

Reply to EnFoRceR22

I would agree with that assessment. I also think it is that global mindedness which is why M$ tumped Apple.

-Enforcer22

The only reason I am not terribly excited about a hybrid drive is the fact that hybrid drives are in general more expensive than either of the two formats alone. So, if we follow that trend, then a hybrid drive would be possibly >$1000 and that is just ludicrous, imho. I see where you are going with it, but I really hope it doesn't come to the point where I have to tolerate two mutually exclusive formats.

Reply to SuperFly03

There are a large number of reasons to NOT support the Blu-Ray format. It is actually easier to add the one reason TO support it (storage limit).

The ONE reason to support (storage limit) will quickly be defeated by the stringent DRM enforced within Blu-Ray.

I am sorry but I do not want to be ALWAYS connected to use MY device, only when Sony tells me I can. Read the DRM specs and you may be amazed at the reason "why" internet connectivity was built into that spec.

HD-DVDs DRM is only marginally better but at least I can use the device without an internet connection to verify my contents are being used as the spec has requested.

Reply to Ches111

Are you sure about that? You MUST be connected to the internet for Blu-Ray to work? If so, that's suicide. Even with STEAM (game delivery engine), you can play your games in "offline" mode.

Reply to dean7

If you wish to have a licsensed playback device that updates itself or fails to play if not updated then Blu-Ray is the way to go. Check out the definition of BD+..

The player that are specifically taliking about in this article:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,1846092,00.asp

is the players that allowed a ROM update via a CD which disabled macrovision and region encoding. You see those devices will now be forced to register every so often to update the device so you can not have access to all of its functionality. They call these functionalities exploits... I call it (if you are smart enough to install/configure a device to play additional content in a manner that you want to use it in ) then why not? Please be advised that they want to update YOUR device which YOU purchased with your own money to restrict its capabilities...

As they say in the South Park episode "nice" "Nice"....

Reply to Ches111

dean,

You do not HAVE to be connected for it to work you have to be CONNECTED for it to work the way you wish it to....

Reply to Ches111

Quote :

True SF. I used the word disliked instead of hate too, signifying that I dislike M$ for several things, but one has to look at the good stuff too. Flight Sim, Halo, AOE are great, although perfection isn't there, it's not expected. Halo2 just got jacked. =\ A fantastic game ruined by hackers, not necessarily M$'s fault. Then you have all the good business software and the advances in OS software too. M$ may not have all the great new ideas, but they are responsible for a lot of today's software ideas. Even Apple has borrowed ideas from them I'm sure. And then there's Bill Gates, who knows what his money might do when he dies. He may be funding the cure for AIDS. I saw him on tv talking about it once. Anyone see that segment?

You really have no clue about Bill Gates do you??? Haha. Check this out homie:

http://www.gatesfoundation.com/default.htm

Easy killer...that WASN'T sarcasm. LOL You're reading backwards today aren't you?

Reply to RyanMicah

Quote :

dean,

You do not HAVE to be connected for it to work you have to be CONNECTED for it to work the way you wish it to....

I was completely unaware of that fact. Wow.... this bring to mind the PSP. Anyone ever tried to play a new game and the PSP forced you to upgrade the firmware? Yup, same sh!t day in and day out for PSP.

Everyone remember what M$ did about the Xbox being hacked.... said "ok, fine we really don't care, but I am not going to allow you to use it on Xbox live and give yourself an advantage." I digress to compare the two b/c M$ has more experience with pirating than does Intel and the like. How can you "pirate" a CPU? You can steal one, but you can't pirate it.

Reply to SuperFly03

Blue-Ray or HD-DVD - Page 4

Forum Storage : Optical Media - Blue-Ray or HD-DVD

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