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 Thread : Blue-Ray or HD-DVD
 
dean7
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n°1385907
12-08-2006 at 05:31:25 PM

Last message on previous page:
BTW, THG did article that totally backs up my point about Sony's proprietary format hell and heavy-handed pushing of said proprietary formats.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/12/06/ [...] scussions/

Quote :

Sony has a history of starting media format wars that ultimately end in failure for the electronics giant. Betamax failed to capture significant market share in the period between VHS and DVD, MiniDisc and the Super Audio CD (SACD) got very little support from companies other than Sony. And UMD for PSP, with a defined limited audience, proved to be a less-than-worthwhile venture for movie studios. The fear among consumers is that history might repeat itself and they are concerned that Blu-ray will die off like previous ventures from Sony, according to the Cymphony report.

"While the media and manufacturers duke it out over their format choice, our research shows that consumers are turning away from Blu-ray because of Sony's reputation and heavy-handed launch strategy," said Cymphony in its report.



The article is not one-sided (read it for more detail), but that sums up my opinion on why HD-DVD is better for everybody involved (besides Sony).

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EnFoRceR22
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n°1385914
12-08-2006 at 05:33:09 PM

Actualy the ps3 is a single core cpu with smp's you can confuse with cores but arent actualy cores.

I assume the xbox uses three cores

1. for os and low load code
2. AI
3. physics

now thats defanitly not 100% accurate i just wanted to show some load balance. that adn adding a 4th core would have cost more.

Just keep in mind though the cell cpu in the ps3 like the 3 core in the xbox is a extreamly stripped version of any real cpu anyone would buy for a computer mearly to keep costs down. so its likely they are complaining about cell as in ps3 cell :D (i know duh of course they are because they are complaining about the ps3)

Fire_Zealot
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n°1385930
12-08-2006 at 05:45:15 PM

Yes, IBM designed the 360, PS3(helped make) and Wii CPUs. ATI got the 360 and Wii, with Nvidia making the RSX(PS3) GPU.

As much as people say that blu ray hanges on the PS3, I think its more the opposite. Blu Ray will be helped by the PS3, yes, but it isnt dependant on it. On the other hand, if blu ray falls, PS3 falls. SOny will a disc type than only they use, one that wont be utalized by game devolpers, and one that they will have to pay loads to build.

IcY18
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n°1385936
12-08-2006 at 05:53:32 PM

The image of Blu-Ray has been tained by the numerous delays and problems that were reported for the PS3. If the PS3 had never been launched or was launched without all the delays and production problems Blu-Ray would have a cleen slate with the first bad impression. Cause we all the know the first impression is the most lasting one. It was bad enough that people were fed up with sony to begin with to top it off they had numerous problems and delays only to make things worse.

In reality this problem with the PS3 has nothing to do with regular Blu-Ray players and their problems but unfortunately in the customers eye that doesn't matter. it only takes a few bad rumors to make a product that was already under fire go bad.

dean7
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n°1385938
12-08-2006 at 05:54:25 PM

Yeah Sony's in trouble. Check this out from the CEO:

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/co [...] index.html

He is a moron, doesn't touch root kit, and that makes me doubt his integrity as a leader.

Also, check some of this info out:

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/03/30/ [...] re_movies/
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Son [...] 1805.shtml

BS like the rootkit and Sony's heavy-handed DRM just pisses me off and makes me not want to buy anything Sony. It also makes me think that they are not going to be around for much longer if they can't redesign themselves. Plus, their executives are legendary for their internal fighting.

jamesgoddard
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n°1385947
12-08-2006 at 06:03:13 PM

There simply is no need for Blue-Ray in the media player market. An HD-DVD can hold 5 hours of the highest quality high def video on a single disk, name me a movie that needs longer then this pls!

The end result will largely be dictated by price, and Blue-Ray can never will that battle.

RyanMicah
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n°1385950
12-08-2006 at 06:07:26 PM

Quote :

I think the biggest problem is cost for the consumer. I dont want to spend 35-40 bucks on a movie!

Also, Ken Katuragi(SP) has said that PS3 games could cost more than 60 bucks, but never over 100. Over 60? Eeeck!



Well one thing to consider is that a $500 premium Xbox with a $200 HD-DVD player = $700. That's pretty comparable to a PS3 which has more powerful hardware and a better sales history. Still, the 1 year lead that Xbox 360 has, has really hurt the PS3. Oh, and aren't some Xbox 360 games more than $60? I seem to recall seeing Gears of War for $69.99 at Gamestop...I saved $10 and got the used version. :-P

True about the movies being too expensive though. Doesn't mean it'll stop us ungodly wealthy American's from being morons and buying them. Just look at how much we're willing to spend on the top of the line processor...

Who the fuk spends $1100 on a CPU when they can get a comparable one for 1/8th of that price? I'd understand it if that $1100 CPU wasn't junk (priced at about 1/16th of the cost) in 2 years.

RyanMicah
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n°1385954
12-08-2006 at 06:09:25 PM

Quote :

There simply is no need for Blue-Ray in the media player market. An HD-DVD can hold 5 hours of the highest quality high def video on a single disk, name me a movie that needs longer then this pls!

The end result will largely be dictated by price, and Blue-Ray can never will that battle.



The idea is that I can burn 10 HD movies to a single disk...or that I could use a couple of Blu-Ray DVD's for backing up my entire media collection. Don't limit the capabilities of a disk to just one use. Think broader. "Imagine the possibilities." Hey, isn't that someone's slogan?

dean7
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n°1385960
12-08-2006 at 06:13:45 PM

Oh and one more thing if you didn't think Sony was in trouble, check this out:
http://www.informationarbitrage.co [...] re_in.html

Quote :

In an interview with NPR late last week, Sony BMG’s Global Digital Business President Thomas Hesse downplayed the recent DRM fiasco saying he objected to terms such as malware, spyware and rootkit. “Most people, I think, don’t even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?” he said.

What a freaking jerk. Are you going to infect people with an obscure virus that causes their hair to fall out because "people don't know what it is, so why should they care about it"?

Quote :

Dell and Sony knew about and discussed manufacturing problems with Sony-made Lithium-Ion batteries as long as ten months ago, but held off on issuing a recall until those flaws were clearly linked to catastrophic failures causing those batteries to catch fire, a Sony Electronics spokesman said Friday.

Spokesman Rick Clancy said the companies had conversations in October 2005 and again in February 2006. Discussions were about the problem of small metal particles that had contaminated Lithium-Ion battery cells manufactured by Sony, causing batteries to fail and, in some cases, overheat.

As a result of those conversations, Sony made changes to its manufacturing process to minimize the presence and size of the particles in its batteries. However, the company did not recall batteries that it thought might contain the particles because it wasn’t clear that they were dangerous, Clancy said.

“We didn’t have confirmation of incidents [involving fires] until relatively recently. We received reports, but didn’t know if there were environmental situations not related to the systems themselves,” he said. “Different measures were taken in February and in October [2005] to further ensure that there were as few of these particles as possible and that they were as small as possible.”

Yeah... I think that one is self-explanatory.

Quote :

In news coming out of Japan this week, Sony has apparently delayed again the release of its stand-alone BDP-S1 Blu-ray Disc player to December or possibly not till 2007. The player was scheduled to due to arrive on retailers shelves this week. Originally, the BDP-S1 was due out in July, but was postponed until August, then to October 25.

Apparently, the delay seems to have been a strategic decision that is based on availability of blue laser diode supplies rather than any trouble with the player - unlike the problems that Samsung has recently encountered. As early as a year ago, it was speculated by several journalists and industry insiders that Sony would have problems delivering both PS3 and a stand-alone Blu-ray Disc player. Not surprisingly, the Blu-ray diode used in the BDP-S1 is the same one used in Sony’s PlayStation 3 game console, which is set for release on November 17. According to experts and analysts in Consumer Electronics, there simply doesn’t seem to be enough parts to go around.



My point with all this is simple: WTF is wrong with Sony? Do they have a bunch of chimpanzees running the show or what? Don't tell me that rootkit's don't matter, and don't tell me everything is fine because Sony deserves to take a beating for their stupidity.

Perhaps the 20,000 layoffs that started in 2003 (I believe) will help them out, making their company leaner and more agile (possibly?) but I really think they need to just oust all of their management to get things back on track. It's clear that their engineers can come up with new ideas (e.g. some of their "cool" ultra portable PCs), but I'm not buying jack until they are less evil.

SuperFly03
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n°1385966
12-08-2006 at 06:17:46 PM

Quote :

In reality this problem with the PS3 has nothing to do with regular Blu-Ray players and their problems but unfortunately in the customers eye that doesn't matter. it only takes a few bad rumors to make a product that was already under fire go bad.



I think that the reason Blu-Ray hinges on PS3 so much is because the PS3 is the cheapest Blu-Ray player "availible" at the moment. If stand alone players were in the same price region, or even a little below, I don't think there would be this stigma that has developed against Blu-Ray. It is amazing how such a small thing and have such a powerful impact.

-dean7

You and I are on the same page, ***k Sony and thier DRM! lol. I've also had 3 or 4 horrendous products which ultimately failed and I just replaced instead of fixing. Their support sucks, thier philosphy of supremacy that has developed over the past 10-12 years is now being shot down because they haven't kept mobile, instead they are rigid and stolid thinking their way is the only way.

EnFoRceR22
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n°1385972
12-08-2006 at 06:21:51 PM

Quote :

There simply is no need for Blue-Ray in the media player market. An HD-DVD can hold 5 hours of the highest quality high def video on a single disk, name me a movie that needs longer then this pls!

The end result will largely be dictated by price, and Blue-Ray can never will that battle.



The idea is that I can burn 10 HD movies to a single disk...or that I could use a couple of Blu-Ray DVD's for backing up my entire media collection. Don't limit the capabilities of a disk to just one use. Think broader. "Imagine the possibilities." Hey, isn't that someone's slogan?

I was just about to say that.


@dean7

Welcome to my thread :D i love the insight you bring to threads and you bring up alot of reading (i hate being lazy) and good points. Defanitly some thinking to do there.

Now i realise most people say large companys wont just die off but large companys that screw up over and over and constantly take loss's over many years can. I totaly agree with you there dean if sony doesnt get off thier ass and just bring out these new (imo way better formats) with out attaching alot of bs every single time they will find them selves being part of amd-ati (sarcasm but you know what i mean)

dean7
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n°1385982
12-08-2006 at 06:28:32 PM

Quote :

There simply is no need for Blue-Ray in the media player market. An HD-DVD can hold 5 hours of the highest quality high def video on a single disk, name me a movie that needs longer then this pls!

The end result will largely be dictated by price, and Blue-Ray can never will that battle.



The idea is that I can burn 10 HD movies to a single disk...or that I could use a couple of Blu-Ray DVD's for backing up my entire media collection. Don't limit the capabilities of a disk to just one use. Think broader. "Imagine the possibilities." Hey, isn't that someone's slogan?
Uh, yeah, right now we are talking about the difference between 30GB and 50GB.

Plus, if you want to back your data up, why don't you look at this data first.

One 25GB BD-R disc: $13.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6817131061

One 250GB HDD: $79.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6822144701

Price-per-gig for BD-R: $.56 (rounded up to nearest cent)
Price-per-gig for HDD: $.32 (rounded up to nearest cent)

Now, with this we are just talking about media. But what about a blu-ray player/recorder?

One BD-R recorder (cheapest on Newegg): $599.99.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6827106037

So, for 250GB of HDD space you are looking at $79.99.
For 250GB of BD-R space you are looking at $739.89.

I must be small-minded because I just can't "imagine the possibilities" of this technology being anything but bleak with that kind of data. :D

RyanMicah
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n°1385992
12-08-2006 at 06:33:44 PM

Quote :

Oh and one more thing if you didn't think Sony was in trouble, check this out:
http://www.informationarbitrage.co [...] re_in.html

In an interview with NPR late last week, Sony BMG’s Global Digital Business President Thomas Hesse downplayed the recent DRM fiasco saying he objected to terms such as malware, spyware and rootkit. “Most people, I think, don’t even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?” he said.

What a freaking jerk. Are you going to infect people with an obscure virus that causes their hair to fall out because "people don't know what it is, so why should they care about it"?

Quote :

Dell and Sony knew about and discussed manufacturing problems with Sony-made Lithium-Ion batteries as long as ten months ago, but held off on issuing a recall until those flaws were clearly linked to catastrophic failures causing those batteries to catch fire, a Sony Electronics spokesman said Friday.

Spokesman Rick Clancy said the companies had conversations in October 2005 and again in February 2006. Discussions were about the problem of small metal particles that had contaminated Lithium-Ion battery cells manufactured by Sony, causing batteries to fail and, in some cases, overheat.

As a result of those conversations, Sony made changes to its manufacturing process to minimize the presence and size of the particles in its batteries. However, the company did not recall batteries that it thought might contain the particles because it wasn’t clear that they were dangerous, Clancy said.

“We didn’t have confirmation of incidents [involving fires] until relatively recently. We received reports, but didn’t know if there were environmental situations not related to the systems themselves,” he said. “Different measures were taken in February and in October [2005] to further ensure that there were as few of these particles as possible and that they were as small as possible.”

Yeah... I think that one is self-explanatory.

I don't know about you, but I'd just as soon not be a guinea pig. If they want to test explosive electrical storage devices on animals, they should use emu. Emu is tasty.