What we all have to remember.

As I look around the Forumz, there are more and more people looking to build systems for whatever reason they might have. That's more than cool with me. That's what it all about. Computers and the technology of today is something that we all should enjoy. It bridges the digital divide, bringing people from Australia, Canada, Germany, England, Latin America and the Caribbean, America, Asia, Africa and where ever you are, together. Languages , religion and politics all disappear when we come together to discuss A64 vs EM64 or the overall coolness that the Conroe architecture has shown us. Or how AMD is still a player in the processor market and will continue to help in innovation.

There are those that like Intel, those that prefer AMD, people that love VIA and Cyrix. Mac lovers. IBM people. Performance minded individuals. The list of those of us that make up the Forumz goes on and on.

But now, more and more people are ready to jump on each other when one person recommends one thing or the other. Yes, this is the era of the Core 2. Tis the season for Intel Fanboys. It's the biggest thing since K8 and sliced bread.

There's alot of complaining about this and such issues though. Insults are being hurled back and forth. "You're a Fanboy", "You're a n00b", these are the common statements that we read. By no means I am saying that I'm completely innocent of insults, but this is about reflection and growth as both people and enthusiasts.

Aren't we forgetting something though? What we are really here for?
What truly is a Forum? It is a public meeting or assembly for open discussion. Open discussion. Letting yourself and other people have their opinions, but still basing what you say in this open place in truth and fact.
You can like what ever brand you want but remember when you post here, it isn't just for yourself. This is a public place. People that know less than you and I also linger here. I'm not saying that we have to be 100% correct, because we're all human and by default, fallible. Heck, I'm wrong alot of the time... But do the best you can to speak the truth, and post facts. FUD, statements rooted in untruth, and frivolous claims are counter productive to what this place is all about.

What about how we recommend products to people? This seems to come up more now that the price of computers and components drop to levels where it is more feasible for more people to "get connected". Since this is a CPU forum, I'll put it like this.

Some people still have 939. Some people still have Pentium D's or board that have the D chips as its highest supported processors. Some people still have 478 or Socket A. For alot of people, Dell, HP, Cyberpower or E-machines would be the best thing for them. Some people like McDonald's others like Burger King. Its all a matter of choice and circumstance. If someone is building a system from scratch (like progressing to a new socket) the best advice at this time would be to go to Core 2.

But, if they have AM2 or don't want to switch from 939, we have the obligation as responsible Forumz members to get off our asses and research what chip in that lineup would be best for them. If someone is looking into buying a computer for there parents, friends or significant other and they have a very limited budget, it might be best to send them to one of the companies that do prebuilts. We can still recommend, but give them the answer they're looking for, or if you feel more like teaching, point them in the right direction.

I get the feeling that this will attract flames but, I don't care and I feel the need for this to be said. I'm not pontificating, or putting anyone down. This is just for us all, to keep in mind. AMD, Intel, Dell or what have you... it's all the same. We're just here to help people. Let them decide how to spend their money and help them to learn and pay it foward.
Ja ne friends,
Ninja

EDIT: (I apologize for the long windedness of this post. I just had to get that off my chest. The intergrity of the Forumz is an imprtant matter to me. Post your replies. I'm thinking we're all of the same mind here. Atleast thats what I hope.)

Nice post.

My only "complaint" is that when someone asks for advice, they should have done some research, prior to asking suggestions. For example, if someone was upgrading a 939 system, they should have certain CPUs that they are interested in, and ask for a comparasion of each. Forum people shouldn't have to do all the legwork for them, unless they feel inclined to do so. To simply ask what would be a good computer isn't going to get too many informative posts. Just posts about what system "we" would like. I will give advice to someone who gives me a better idea of what they are looking for or can afford, rather than what is the best system I can build out of my own wish list. Also, if they want to build an AMD system, I usually stay out of it, since I really don't have too much hands on with those systems, but I will post when someone gives misinformation or uses their own opinion as "fact".

Also, I agree about the whole fanboy/fanboi thing. It's stupid. I work for Intel, and I am not going to claim that they had the best chips since the dawn of computing. Hell, Intel barely regained the performance crown, and AMD might take it back with their new CPU. It's been that way for years.

You've got no complaint from me there. When someone does there own research, especially on this site, it might make them more inclined to just post and disappear. It could in my opinion make them want to do more that just ask questions and actually be a contributing member of the community.

Totally agree.

It is easier for me to go look for products when they give a budget and an idea of what they intend to use their system for (ie. gaming and surfing, encoding, etc). Someone who comes in asking for a build for gaming can get so many different configurations, from low end to high end, it's endless.

Also, having the OP give choices of CPUs, will give the forum a chance to research each CPU for the OPs intended use, or just get an opinion from someone who already has the CPU listed. It's easier to get the most information on a CPU purchase that way, imo.

Otherwise, very good post.

Awesome post, completely agree with you here. To all people looking for advice and are looking through this here's a word of wisdom: Give us an idea of what you're looking for, like if you're upgrading give us some idea of what hardware you're looking at. I'm tired of people ask like, "what should I upgrade to?" but don't give any info of like what they're doing or what they're looking at. We will critique and we will give you plenty of help, but just work with us!

But yeah, DaSickNinja, awesome post.

Great post Ninja. Been waiting for someone to say something like this. I still consider myself new to the forumz, but I am trying to learn all that I can.

Thank you.
There is no hard and fast rule on how to post but it believe it's proper netiquite to put as much information as you can into your question. Like this:

True but how can you learn if you don't look. There is a saying that goes, "How can I see if I do not look."

@3lfk1ng
Much thanks my friend.

Yup, sad thing is that people reading/replying/agreeing , are those who understand and apply what you just said!

Good post and I agree mostly with statements regarding flaming and fanboism...

Yet this is an open forum which posters have opinions which sometimes contrast with facts... and as far as recommending products or upgrades which are based on facts like advising to consider a different platform that costs the same or less yet offers greater performance at lower thermals would constitute the essence of what these forumz are thriving on.

You're a Fanboy, you n00b!!111!11one!1!

I couldn't agree more. Etiquette is indeed more important than some might think from some responces I've seen in these forums over the years. I am never one to condescend because I feel everyone is still learning each and every day. If you think you know it all and can stop learning new things everyone else will eventually pass you by.

In the world of technology there is almost never a purely right or wrong answer to someones question in regards to a build or even a gadget I'd say. We should search the needs of others then form "our opinion" based on that persons said needs. It still might not be quite the answer the person is looking for but the more information they have to go on the better as long as its based on fact or truth as you stated.

On a less serious sidenote, didn't I see you die on cartoon network just this past saturday? That was a bit of a letdown as I was hoping to see your character fleshed out a little

Very good post Ninja.

Thats a real shame, I used to follow anime much more closely and try to keep up with Japan releases. Nowadays with family and such I don't have time so I just see things when they are released here or if its really a hot item I hear about that likely won't come here then I look up other sources.

I also agree with your reasons and definitions quite closely. I always say that real men are big enough to admit their mistakes. It does no good anyway to outright and knowingly spread falsehoods as there is always someone who will spot it and you only stand to look foolish afterwards. I for one "try" not to look foolish.

I have of course been wrong my fair share tho

Ninja,

You're right on. I like AMD and root for them to succeed and de-throne Intel. However, when it comes to product recommendations I always recommend what I feel is best for the situation, even if it is an Intel product.

You mentioned something, 'integrity'. Many people who are so close-minded that they will only recommend a certain manufacturer do not have integrity, nor do they help people make the correct decisions.

Thanks for posting that.

Finally, an intellegent post. I haven't read one of these in a while

Well, you know, you can't change the world at once but you can give it a push in the right direction; that's what you did today! Tomorrow you will still have people arguing but at least, almost everyone has stopped to think aput your post. Our first mission here is preventing people from being ripped, helping them spend better their money and we sould all think more about it.

Well, if someone wants to build a new system, then a budget is good. If they have a preference of CPUs, then mention that fact.

I am not expecting someone to come on and ask for details about how the Core 2 Duo works differently from the X2, just what would be a better build for encoding, gaming, or general use between the two.

Look around retail/etail sites for prices for budget constraints. That's researching. Look at hardware sites for reviews/comparasions of CPUs for what they can or cannot do well. That's researching. That is all I am talking about, not make a white paper or presentation for the forum.



It never ceases to amaze me that people will come to a hardware site and then ask which part is best...do they even look at the front page? I understand that a lot of the numbers won't make much sense, but just reading the conclusions on reviews for parts is helpful. There is no excuse for ignorance.

Thats the best post ive ever read on here. I have a AMD and a Intel, they both rock! Thanks for putting things into perspective, lord knows i have tried many times here.

I couldn't agree with you more. People like certain things for their own reasons and that sould be OK. Why? Because we're not living in a communist country haha. I mean seriously, why would a Ford person skip out on a Cobra and buy a Chevy Corvette? He wouldn't because he's a Ford person. Who cares if he's a Ford person? All that matters is that he's got a fast car and he enjoys it.

Anyways, I'm an AMD person but I'm not going to sit here and try to talk smack about anyone wanting an Intel. They make great chips. Maybe one day I'll get one. Just because Intel is better now than AMD or vice versa doesn't mean squat. Get what you want/like.

I've only been coming to this forum for a month or so and the amount of bashing/flaming that goes on almost makes me not want to come here at all. It gets really old and annoying considering the amount of threads that go off topic because of the bashing/flaming.

Well, if someone wants to build a new system, then a budget is good. If they have a preference of CPUs, then mention that fact.

I am not expecting someone to come on and ask for details about how the Core 2 Duo works differently from the X2, just what would be a better build for encoding, gaming, or general use between the two.

Look around retail/etail sites for prices for budget constraints. That's researching. Look at hardware sites for reviews/comparasions of CPUs for what they can or cannot do well. That's researching. That is all I am talking about, not make a white paper or presentation for the forum.



It never ceases to amaze me that people will come to a hardware site and then ask which part is best...do they even look at the front page? I understand that a lot of the numbers won't make much sense, but just reading the conclusions on reviews for parts is helpful. There is no excuse for ignorance.
Yes, most people don't know enough about it and the best thing is to ask here. In my country there's no Core2 yet and sellers do their best to trash P4s They all say they have the best thing out there. Just today I found out that a friend of mine had bought a 3.2G Prescott, S478 P4; the worst thing you can actually buy; Crappy performance + no upgrade possibility; that's how the typical buyer ends up.

The average consumer knows next to nothing about computers, and the makers take advantage of this fact.

newbs read this stuff too. ninja it's good to hear that word "netiquette".
one of the best places to learn and get a clue that i found are magazines.
the other places of course are forums. i had no clue other than how to turn on a comp 2 years ago, made it my mission to get a clue and now i have successfully built 2 systems. i have spent alot of time here silently stalking all of you , but after reading this i felt compelled to post, let all of you know how much you have taught me and most important to thank those of you that go out of your way to help others... i have no need to say how i feel about those that are compelled to spue fanboi cr@p. i am a member on another forum and i totally agree with those of you frustrated by half.....d posts seeking help. i tend to ramble so i'll cut myself off there, thanks guy's you do make a difference.

brian

AAAAAAAAAMEN!

Nice post!

Absolutely right. We've got to quit these damn flame wars. Some people actually want to learn.

~Ibrahim~

A n00b can't be educated. You're confusing your terms.
The word 'newb' is sometimes confused with this term - 'newb' standing for 'new beginner'. Whereas a n00b means one of two common terms:

1) A new member who is acting stupidly.
2) A member who is acting stupidly, regardless of level and/or experience.

Newbies can become members that contribute and help others out. Once a n00b though, always a n00b.