AMD Socket F (1207) vs Conroe ??????

I have ( actually had) a tyan 2885s mobo which recently shorted out and now won't work (Disk Read Error; flashing the bios did not help and I believe a chip is shorted out).

I have 2 amd 250 optys @ 2.4 ghz + radeon x800xt (AGP of corse).

I have some cash on hand and was wondering, should I upgrade to this:

A socket F Opteron 2210 Santa Rosa 1.8 ghz for $280 (2 of these should be faster than one F socket @ 2.0 ghz for $419?)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819105021

An ASUS KFN5-D SLI Dual Socket 1207 MOBO $290

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131038

1 CPU + MOBO = 570

2 CPU + MOBO = 850

-------------------------------------
OR
-------------------------------------

ASUS P5W DH DELUXE/WIFI-AP Socket T MOBO $270

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6813131025

Core 2 DUO E6600 @ 2.4 ghz $360

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819115003

CPU + MOBO = 630

------------------------------------------------------------------

If I can't use my DDR 400 ram (for now), i'd get this

OCZ Gold 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM Unbuffered DDR2 800 $210 bucks

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6820227124

Vid Card:

SAPPHIRE 100150L Radeon X1900XTX 512MB@ $355 (unless someone mentions one for a better price).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814102037

AMD: 2 CPU = 850 + 210 + 355 = $1375
AMD: 1 CPU = 570 + 210 + 355 = $1135
Intel: 1 CPU = 630 + 210 + 355 = $1135

I plan on using the system for years to come and once I "retire" it, if its server hardware (AMD), I'll convert it over to a true back up server. If I go the Conroe route, I'll just replace the Tyan 2885s MOBO later and then have a stand alone server. Either way, this computer will be used for the next 3 + years.

I use it for work as well as games.

Having DDR2 and PCI Express is a big step over my AGP and DDR board. For server applications, I doubt having DDR2 (and PCI express would be useless for pushing data in and out) would really help in terms of data movement to back up stuff enough to warrant the upgrade for purely server purposes.

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This Thread is for you.

It would seem the Core 2 Duo may end up giving you more performance over the dual Opteron rig you're looking at (especially in games).

Plus it costs less..

Unless you're going to be doing work that requires the use of the 4 core (dual Opteron Dual Cores) then I would definatly look towards the Core 2 Duo E6600.

Reply to ElMoIsEviL

This article might be worth something (I haven't had the chance to read it):

http://tweakers.net/reviews/646

It's not a direct comparison - they compare a Socket F Opteron to the Dempsey and Woodcrest core Xeons. But, since the Woodcrest is a Core 2 Duo design for servers, it should still be relevant.

Reply to Mex

Also, would a dual-core socket 1207 be better than a socket 940 for the price if i went the AMD ROUTE?

2 CPUS (both DUAL CORE)@ 1.8 ghz Santa Rosa socket 1207 $280x2

VS

1 CPU (SINGLE CORE)@ 2.6 ghz 252 TROY socket 940 $461x1

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819103511

OR

1 CPU (DUAL CORE)@ 275 Italy 2.2GHz $540x1

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819103551

I know this is a lot of info, if not the AMD, just disreguard this specific post.

Reply to Synthetickiller

Thanks guys.

Going the CONROE route would probably be best. Its never a good time to upgrade. I'm lookin forward to seeing what the K8L from AMD will do, but I guess thats a year away (at the least).

The conroe should hold me for a few years at least, especially with good ram and a good vid card.

Thanks guys.

Reply to Synthetickiller

Quote :

Thanks guys.

Going the CONROE route would probably be best. Its never a good time to upgrade. I'm lookin forward to seeing what the K8L from AMD will do, but I guess thats a year away (at the least).

The conroe should hold me for a few years at least, especially with good ram and a good vid card.

Thanks guys.

No prob..

Core 2 Duo's are great processors... trust me.. it's not just that it's faster.. but when exiting Battlefield 2 my computer is instantly available no slow down at all.. hell it loads levels much quicker too.

But that's for gaming...

And in case you're wondering what I'm comparing it too.. well I have an AMD Athlon64 X2 4800+ oc'ed to 3.2GHz.. that's what I'm comparing too.

Reply to ElMoIsEviL

definitely get conroe , AMD sucks/

Reply to Heyhey

the only thing that sucks is wantabie fanboys that have there post ban. to prove my point here your tread. http://forumz.tomshardware.com/har [...] 99677.html

Reply to AtolSammeek

Quote :

AMD sucks/

u suck too, but we still have you sucking here.

Reply to gOJDO

No doubt Conroe is good, but to take advantage of your existing hardware, I'd pick up a Tyan S2895 or a Supermicro H8DCE with a nice PCI-e video card, save a wad of cash and not have to totally revamp your rig...unless of course, a total upgrade is something you want to do...either way, good luck!

___________________________________________________________

Quote :

This Thread is for you.

Dude, I can't believe you actually referenced the bull$hit article to someone. You should hang your head in shame :oops: for perpetuating blatant FUD! I'm beginning to wonder about you Elmo...

Reply to chunkymonster

Quote :

No doubt Conroe is good, but to take advantage of your existing hardware, I'd pick up a Tyan S2895 or a Supermicro H8DCE with a nice PCI-e video card, save a wad of cash and not have to totally revamp your rig...unless of course, a total upgrade is something you want to do...either way, good luck!

___________________________________________________________
This Thread is for you.

Dude, I can't believe you actually referenced the bull$hit article to someone. You should hang your head in shame :oops: for perpetuating blatant FUD! I'm beginning to wonder about you Elmo...

Why is the article bullshit? Do you have proof that they are spreading FUD?

Reply to qurious69ss

Quote :

No doubt Conroe is good, but to take advantage of your existing hardware, I'd pick up a Tyan S2895 or a Supermicro H8DCE with a nice PCI-e video card, save a wad of cash and not have to totally revamp your rig...unless of course, a total upgrade is something you want to do...either way, good luck!

___________________________________________________________
This Thread is for you.

Dude, I can't believe you actually referenced the bull$hit article to someone. You should hang your head in shame :oops: for perpetuating blatant FUD! I'm beginning to wonder about you Elmo...

If I lived my life caring about what others think and living it according to there wants and needs I'd be pretty miserable. you can think what you like about me, it's your right afforded to you by the Constitution of your country (unless you live under some dictatorship regime).

That article is not FUD at all. Given the software used in that article and the authors needs are quite similar it makes sense to compare them. Also it's about the only real comparison we have between these two set's of systems aside from those at Xtremesystems which also point to the Core 2's strengths.

It won't win every benchmark.. but the fact that it stays competitive is convincing enough.

Reply to ElMoIsEviL

Quote :

Why is the article bullshit? Do you have proof that they are spreading FUD?

Quote :

Of course, testing these dual Opteron machines against a single-processor Intel Core 2 Extreme workstation is a classic apples-to-oranges comparison.

By the article writer's own admission it was not a direct comparison. Recommending that article is perpetuating bad/poor info/advice.

Reply to chunkymonster

Quote :

Why is the article bullshit? Do you have proof that they are spreading FUD?

Quote :

Of course, testing these dual Opteron machines against a single-processor Intel Core 2 Extreme workstation is a classic apples-to-oranges comparison.

By the article writer's own admission it was not a direct comparison. Recommending that article is perpetuating bad/poor info/advice.

Ummm no he meant it was apples to oranges given the fact that the Opteron was able to process 4 threads simultaneously as opposed to the Core 2 Extreme X6800's 2 threads simultaneously.

This would indicate a definite advantage for the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron system in the tests conducted. So it's apples to oranges. But of course the results surprised him. They didn't surprise me as we've been discussing this over at Xtremesystems for quite some time.

Apple = Consumer Processor
Oranges = Server/Workstation Processor

Apples to Oranges.

EDIT:

I also wanted to analyze the authors comments.

Quote :

Of course, testing these dual Opteron machines against a single-processor Intel Core 2 Extreme workstation is a classic apples-to-oranges comparison. But what we learned in this test is that the fastest Opteron processors are nowhere near as quick as Intel's latest Core 2 technology. Heck, just one of the dual-core Core 2 Extreme chips can beat two of the dual-core Opterons in many tests. Keeping that in mind, we'll next bring one of the newest dual Intel Xeon (Woodcrest) workstations into our Midwest Test Facility labs, where their dual/dual-core Core 2 technology has the potential to show these Opterons who's boss. Until then, HP xw9400 Workstation is our new King of the Hill, and even though it doesn't give you nearly the bang for the buck as the Intel-packing Dell Precision 390 Workstation, it's still recommended. 8.9 out of 10 stars.

Quote :

Keeping in mind that it's a single-processor against two processors with this HP machine, the performance of the Intel Core 2 Extreme processor was remarkable, as borne out in our benchmarks.

Apple to Oranges.

It's apple to oranges because of thise..

Quote :

It's two against one as the Core 2 Extreme fights with one hand tied behind its back

2 vs. 1, so the advantages are on the Opteron's side.. Now imagine what two Woodcrests would do.

Reply to ElMoIsEviL

Quote :

Why is the article bullshit? Do you have proof that they are spreading FUD?

Quote :

Of course, testing these dual Opteron machines against a single-processor Intel Core 2 Extreme workstation is a classic apples-to-oranges comparison.

By the article writer's own admission it was not a direct comparison. Recommending that article is perpetuating bad/poor info/advice.

Hmm...I was under the impression that his statement

"Of course, testing these dual Opteron machines against a single-processor Intel Core 2 Extreme workstation is a classic apples-to-oranges comparison."

Was implying that it is not a straight comparison since you are comparing a 2p system with a server CPU to a 1p system that has an enthusiast CPU.

Reply to qurious69ss

Quote :

Why is the article bullshit? Do you have proof that they are spreading FUD?

Quote :

Of course, testing these dual Opteron machines against a single-processor Intel Core 2 Extreme workstation is a classic apples-to-oranges comparison.

By the article writer's own admission it was not a direct comparison. Recommending that article is perpetuating bad/poor info/advice.

Hmm...I was under the impression that his statement

"Of course, testing these dual Opteron machines against a single-processor Intel Core 2 Extreme workstation is a classic apples-to-oranges comparison."

Was implying that it is not a straight comparison since you are comparing a 2p system with a server CPU to a 1p system that has an enthusiast CPU.

That's exactly what the author meant.. Also the fact that in rendering.. Opterons gain a large advantage in 64bit over 32bit operations. So the Opteron's running x64 make it all the more Apples to Oranges. The odds are highly stacked in the Opteron's favour. This is what impressed the author.

Reply to ElMoIsEviL

Quote :

Why is the article bullshit? Do you have proof that they are spreading FUD?

Quote :

Of course, testing these dual Opteron machines against a single-processor Intel Core 2 Extreme workstation is a classic apples-to-oranges comparison.

By the article writer's own admission it was not a direct comparison. Recommending that article is perpetuating bad/poor info/advice.

Hmm...I was under the impression that his statement

"Of course, testing these dual Opteron machines against a single-processor Intel Core 2 Extreme workstation is a classic apples-to-oranges comparison."

Was implying that it is not a straight comparison since you are comparing a 2p system with a server CPU to a 1p system that has an enthusiast CPU.

That's exactly what the author meant.. Also the fact that in rendering.. Opterons gain a large advantage in 64bit over 32bit operations. So the Opteron's running x64 make it all the more Apples to Oranges. The odds are highly stacked in the Opteron's favour. This is what impressed the author.

Rationalize and justify it any way you want, regardless of whether you prefer Intel or AMD, it doesn't change the fact that it is not a direct comparison of the two systems; therefore, herego, the article is invalid as source data when comparing Core 2 to Opterons. Why's that so difficult to understand?! The Good Buddha knows how people have freaked in these forums about having benchies and comparisons be on the same level. Remember the Anand Conroe vs. FX benchies a while ago? How come it seems that this article is all of a sudden valid?

Reply to chunkymonster

Can you point out why it's not valid.. I've asked you about 4 times now and you still haven't answered.

Why is this test not giving a fair chance to the 2-Way Dual Core Opterons. This is of course your argument. Why is this test not giving that rig a fair chance?

Reply to ElMoIsEviL

Quote :

Can you point out why it's not valid.. I've asked you about 4 times now and you still haven't answered.

Why is this test not giving a fair chance to the 2-Way Dual Core Opterons. This is of course your argument. Why is this test not giving that rig a fair chance?

My issue is that the article is not a relevant and valid comparison, period. And, it is compounded by thoughtless fanboys jumping on a the bandwagon for another reason to say that one cpu is better than another.

I do not care if the article favors the Core 2 or Opteron. I did not imply the article was not giving a fair chance to the 2-Way Dual Core Opterons. Those are your assumptions and reading words into my posts. Please do not project your presumptions and bias.

But to answer your question, and as you so adeptly commented, this is why article is not valid...

Quote :

Ummm no he meant it was apples to orangesgiven the fact that the Opteron was able to process 4 threads simultaneously as opposed to the Core 2 Extreme X6800's 2 threads simultaneously.

This would indicate a definite advantage for the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron system in the tests conducted. So it's apples to oranges. But of course the results surprised him. They didn't surprise me as we've been discussing this over at Xtremesystems for quite some time.

Apple = Consumer Processor
Oranges = Server/Workstation Processor
Apples to Oranges.

EDIT:
I also wanted to analyze the authors comments.
Quote:
Of course, testing these dual Opteron machines against a single-processor Intel Core 2 Extreme workstation is a classic apples-to-oranges comparison. But what we learned in this test is that the fastest Opteron processors are nowhere near as quick as Intel's latest Core 2 technology. Heck, just one of the dual-core Core 2 Extreme chips can beat two of the dual-core Opterons in many tests. Keeping that in mind, we'll next bring one of the newest dual Intel Xeon (Woodcrest) workstations into our Midwest Test Facility labs, where their dual/dual-core Core 2 technology has the potential to show these Opterons who's boss. Until then, HP xw9400 Workstation is our new King of the Hill, and even though it doesn't give you nearly the bang for the buck as the Intel-packing Dell Precision 390 Workstation, it's still recommended. 8.9 out of 10 stars.

Quote:
Keeping in mind that it's a single-processor against two processors with this HP machine, the performance of the Intel Core 2 Extreme processor was remarkable, as borne out in our benchmarks.

Apple to Oranges.

It's apple to oranges because of thise..
Quote:
It's two against one as the Core 2 Extreme fights with one hand tied behind its back

2 vs. 1, so the advantages are on the Opteron's side.. Now imagine what two Woodcrests would do.

In your own reply to counter me you point out the very reason why it's apples to oranges and not a direct comparison. And, you want me to explain it?

Good Buddha you are a thick headed little Intel fanboy, aren't you?!

Reply to chunkymonster

Well I don’t really know what the issue here is. It really doesn’t help philosophizing about whether the article is valid or trying to find deep hidden meanings it the author’s phrases. I’m sure his not a poet.

Fact of the matter is whether the article is valid or not, and forget about the internals of each system, two systems (box A and box B) were compared and one came out favorable.

In this case, the “cheaper”, more “average Joe” market friendly system won. If the 2-way operaton system came out tops and people were posting rants about the operaton wasting the Intel, then you might consider the validity of the article because the dual operaton is supposed to be in a much higher price and performance class. But unfortunately the VW beetle beat the Ferrari and I’ll say this again, even if you deem the article invalid because they are comparing apples with oranges, do you think it really matter?

This is not a surprise to me seeing that since the Core 2 release, 90% of internet sites and magazines had rave reviews for these CPUs. And whether their articles were valid or not, who cares? Buy directly comparing systems it was generally found that A is faster than B. Period. Now get over it and don’t worry, I’m sure AMD will make a come back and no one will kill you for owning an AMD based machine.

Reply to mor123

Quote :

definitely get conroe , AMD sucks/

Do you know ANYTHING about CPUs? If so where the hell did a statement as un-factual and misleading as this come from? AMD is a great company, and they do their best with the limited resources at their disposal.

That a company 1/10th the size of Intel could beat them in the performance arena for 3 years is quite astonishing to be honest.

Reply to quantumsheep

Quote :

But unfortunately the VW beetle beat the Ferrari and I’ll say this again, even if you deem the article invalid because they are comparing apples with oranges, do you think it really matter?

Where did you say this the first time, considering your post count was 1 when you wrote this?!

A rational, objective, and thinking human being deems that article and any reference to it as invalid.

Reply to chunkymonster

Quote :

Can you point out why it's not valid.. I've asked you about 4 times now and you still haven't answered.

Why is this test not giving a fair chance to the 2-Way Dual Core Opterons. This is of course your argument. Why is this test not giving that rig a fair chance?

I do not care if the article favors the Core 2 or Opteron. I did not imply the article was not giving a fair chance to the 2-Way Dual Core Opterons. Those are your assumptions and reading words into my posts. Please do not project your presumptions and bias.

But to answer your question, and as you so adeptly commented, this is why article is not valid...

Quote :

Ummm no he meant it was apples to orangesgiven the fact that the Opteron was able to process 4 threads simultaneously as opposed to the Core 2 Extreme X6800's 2 threads simultaneously.

This would indicate a definite advantage for the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron system in the tests conducted. So it's apples to oranges. But of course the results surprised him. They didn't surprise me as we've been discussing this over at Xtremesystems for quite some time.

Apple = Consumer Processor
Oranges = Server/Workstation Processor
Apples to Oranges.

EDIT:
I also wanted to analyze the authors comments.
Quote:
Of course, testing these dual Opteron machines against a single-processor Intel Core 2 Extreme workstation is a classic apples-to-oranges comparison. But what we learned in this test is that the fastest Opteron processors are nowhere near as quick as Intel's latest Core 2 technology. Heck, just one of the dual-core Core 2 Extreme chips can beat two of the dual-core Opterons in many tests. Keeping that in mind, we'll next bring one of the newest dual Intel Xeon (Woodcrest) workstations into our Midwest Test Facility labs, where their dual/dual-core Core 2 technology has the potential to show these Opterons who's boss. Until then, HP xw9400 Workstation is our new King of the Hill, and even though it doesn't give you nearly the bang for the buck as the Intel-packing Dell Precision 390 Workstation, it's still recommended. 8.9 out of 10 stars.

Quote:
Keeping in mind that it's a single-processor against two processors with this HP machine, the performance of the Intel Core 2 Extreme processor was remarkable, as borne out in our benchmarks.

Apple to Oranges.

It's apple to oranges because of thise..
Quote:
It's two against one as the Core 2 Extreme fights with one hand tied behind its back

2 vs. 1, so the advantages are on the Opteron's side.. Now imagine what two Woodcrests would do.

In your own reply to counter me you point out the very reason why it's apples to oranges and not a direct comparison. And, you want me to explain it?

Good Buddha you are a thick headed little Intel fanboy, aren't you?!

Hahahaha... I'm no Intel fanboy kid. You're proving to be an AMD fanboi though.

You still haven't answered the question. What about this test makes it impossible to get a glimpse of the performance differences between a core 2 Extreme X6800 and a 2-Way Dual Opteron processor?

Considering I'm using this Apples to Oranges series of tests to promote the power of the Core 2 processor I do not see why one cannot use the tests and formulate there own conclusions.

You see, the test is apples to oranges because it's completely favouring the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron machine. I mean it's using Windows XP x64 and TWO Dual Core Opteron processors (2 more actual cores then the Core 2).

And even with all that FIRE POWER... it's still not dominating the Core 2 Extreme X6800.

So it's Apples to Oranges in the sense that the test did not give the Intel setup a fair chance.. but even in this case it's still VERY clear that the Core 2 is the superior architecture.

Reply to ElMoIsEviL

Quote :

But unfortunately the VW beetle beat the Ferrari and I’ll say this again, even if you deem the article invalid because they are comparing apples with oranges, do you think it really matter?

Where did you say this the first time, considering your post count was 1 when you wrote this?!

A rational, objective, and thinking human being deems that article and any reference to it as invalid.

No, a rational thinking human being would take the article for what it's worth. It shows that despite being totally outgunned the Core 2 is still able to shine. That's what the article shows. The configurations used (the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron running x64 which gives it a performance increase in rendering vs. a Core 2 Extreme X6800 using a 32bit O/S).

You wish the results to be deemed invalid because they cast a bad light on your precious Opteron. Well, it's either this or they do up a test with a 2-Way Opteron running a 32bit O/S and a 2-Way Woodcrest also running a 32bit O/S and see the Opteron get an even larger beating (losing in every test).

Up to you really.. either way the results won't move your way..

Fanboi's.. seriously..

Quote :

I do not care if the article favors the Core 2 or Opteron. I did not imply the article was not giving a fair chance to the 2-Way Dual Core Opterons. Those are your assumptions and reading words into my posts. Please do not project your presumptions and bias.

You're really not making any sense. Then what's wrong with someone using these tests to formulate there own conclusions if it's more then giving the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron a fair chance?

Seriously.. you're lacking logic my friend. You ARE a rabid fanboi, I could go around pasting some of the posts you've made. When independent tests show product A outperforming product B then those claiming that Product A is better are not fanboi's.. but stating the FACTS.. those still claiming Product B to be better are fanboi's.

So I'm not a fanboi.. You sir are the fanboi.. now that's logic young grasshopper... lol!!!

Now as I drive the last nail into your coffin I pretty much have figured out why this test hurts you dear. You're a Dual Opteron 250 Owner. It pains you to see another product challenge your system's eliteness. This is understandable.. but foolish. Here is how I figured out your apparent bias towards all things Opteron.

Quote :

Now I'm running dual Opteron 250's on a Supermicro H8DCE that I put together last year, 4GB RAM, EVGA 7900GT KO, RAID0 for the OS, a 200GB scratch drive, and 3-320GB in RAID5 via a 3ware controller. Can't see myself going back to single proc machine...

Quote :

I'm taking the "wait and see" approach to this quad core thing as there are basically zero applications that gamers or enthusiasts use to justify owning a quad core, and multitasking is a moot arguement here...it's also doubful that intel's quad core will displace the opteron in the server market, solely due to being a quad core...

Quote :

Meh, core2 is impressive but not compelling enough for me to swap out dual opty's, an SLI capable mobo, a 7900GT, 4GB of RAM, and a 3Ware RAID controller on a 133MHz PCI-X slot...

That's right... it would seem you're quite the AMD fan.. I could of course post more of your posts. But it's quite clear that it pains you to know that the Opteron is not the best Workstation configuration anymore. Only in 8-way designs does it regain some advantages.

You need not worry, I'm quite certain AMD will rectify this with there K8L version of the Opteron. Until then, stomach it will ya!

Reply to ElMoIsEviL

Quote :

But unfortunately the VW beetle beat the Ferrari and I’ll say this again, even if you deem the article invalid because they are comparing apples with oranges, do you think it really matter?

Where did you say this the first time, considering your post count was 1 when you wrote this?!

A rational, objective, and thinking human being deems that article and any reference to it as invalid.

No, a rational thinking human being would take the article for what it's worth. It shows that despite being totally outgunned the Core 2 is still able to shine. That's what the article shows. The configurations used (the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron running x64 which gives it a performance increase in rendering vs. a Core 2 Extreme X6800 using a 32bit O/S).

You wish the results to be deemed invalid because they cast a bad light on your precious Opteron. Well, it's either this or they do up a test with a 2-Way Opteron running a 32bit O/S and a 2-Way Woodcrest also running a 32bit O/S and see the Opteron get an even larger beating (losing in every test).

Up to you really.. either way the results won't move your way..

Fanboi's.. seriously..

Quote :

I do not care if the article favors the Core 2 or Opteron. I did not imply the article was not giving a fair chance to the 2-Way Dual Core Opterons. Those are your assumptions and reading words into my posts. Please do not project your presumptions and bias.

You're really not making any sense. Then what's wrong with someone using these tests to formulate there own conclusions if it's more then giving the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron a fair chance?

Seriously.. you're lacking logic my friend. You ARE a rabid fanboi, I could go around pasting some of the posts you've made. When independent tests show product A outperforming product B then those claiming that Product A is better are not fanboi's.. but stating the FACTS.. those still claiming Product B to be better are fanboi's.

So I'm not a fanboi.. You sir are the fanboi.. now that's logic young grasshopper... lol!!!

Now as I drive the last nail into your coffin I pretty much have figured out why this test hurts you dear. You're a Dual Opteron 250 Owner. It pains you to see another product challenge your system's eliteness. This is understandable.. but foolish. Here is how I figured out your apparent bias towards all things Opteron.

Quote :

Now I'm running dual Opteron 250's on a Supermicro H8DCE that I put together last year, 4GB RAM, EVGA 7900GT KO, RAID0 for the OS, a 200GB scratch drive, and 3-320GB in RAID5 via a 3ware controller. Can't see myself going back to single proc machine...

Quote :

I'm taking the "wait and see" approach to this quad core thing as there are basically zero applications that gamers or enthusiasts use to justify owning a quad core, and multitasking is a moot arguement here...it's also doubful that intel's quad core will displace the opteron in the server market, solely due to being a quad core...

Quote :

Meh, core2 is impressive but not compelling enough for me to swap out dual opty's, an SLI capable mobo, a 7900GT, 4GB of RAM, and a 3Ware RAID controller on a 133MHz PCI-X slot...

That's right... it would seem you're quite the AMD fan.. I could of course post more of your posts. But it's quite clear that it pains you to know that the Opteron is not the best Workstation configuration anymore. Only in 8-way designs does it regain some advantages.

You need not worry, I'm quite certain AMD will rectify this with there K8L version of the Opteron. Until then, stomach it will ya!

http://chunkymonster.justgotowned.com

Reply to quantumsheep

Quote :

But unfortunately the VW beetle beat the Ferrari and I’ll say this again, even if you deem the article invalid because they are comparing apples with oranges, do you think it really matter?

Where did you say this the first time, considering your post count was 1 when you wrote this?!

A rational, objective, and thinking human being deems that article and any reference to it as invalid.

No, a rational thinking human being would take the article for what it's worth. It shows that despite being totally outgunned the Core 2 is still able to shine. That's what the article shows. The configurations used (the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron running x64 which gives it a performance increase in rendering vs. a Core 2 Extreme X6800 using a 32bit O/S).

You wish the results to be deemed invalid because they cast a bad light on your precious Opteron. Well, it's either this or they do up a test with a 2-Way Opteron running a 32bit O/S and a 2-Way Woodcrest also running a 32bit O/S and see the Opteron get an even larger beating (losing in every test).

Up to you really.. either way the results won't move your way..

Fanboi's.. seriously..

Quote :

I do not care if the article favors the Core 2 or Opteron. I did not imply the article was not giving a fair chance to the 2-Way Dual Core Opterons. Those are your assumptions and reading words into my posts. Please do not project your presumptions and bias.

You're really not making any sense. Then what's wrong with someone using these tests to formulate there own conclusions if it's more then giving the 2-Way Dual Core Opteron a fair chance?

Seriously.. you're lacking logic my friend. You ARE a rabid fanboi, I could go around pasting some of the posts you've made. When independent tests show product A outperforming product B then those claiming that Product A is better are not fanboi's.. but stating the FACTS.. those still claiming Product B to be better are fanboi's.

So I'm not a fanboi.. You sir are the fanboi.. now that's logic young grasshopper... lol!!!

Now as I drive the last nail into your coffin I pretty much have figured out why this test hurts you dear. You're a Dual Opteron 250 Owner. It pains you to see another product challenge your system's eliteness. This is understandable.. but foolish. Here is how I figured out your apparent bias towards all things Opteron.

Quote :

Now I'm running dual Opteron 250's on a Supermicro H8DCE that I put together last year, 4GB RAM, EVGA 7900GT KO, RAID0 for the OS, a 200GB scratch drive, and 3-320GB in RAID5 via a 3ware controller. Can't see myself going back to single proc machine...

Quote :

I'm taking the "wait and see" approach to this quad core thing as there are basically zero applications that gamers or enthusiasts use to justify owning a quad core, and multitasking is a moot arguement here...it's also doubful that intel's quad core will displace the opteron in the server market, solely due to being a quad core...

Quote :

Meh, core2 is impressive but not compelling enough for me to swap out dual opty's, an SLI capable mobo, a 7900GT, 4GB of RAM, and a 3Ware RAID controller on a 133MHz PCI-X slot...

That's right... it would seem you're quite the AMD fan.. I could of course post more of your posts. But it's quite clear that it pains you to know that the Opteron is not the best Workstation configuration anymore. Only in 8-way designs does it regain some advantages.

You need not worry, I'm quite certain AMD will rectify this with there K8L version of the Opteron. Until then, stomach it will ya!

I make no apologies for owning an AMD based machine. Still say quad core from either Intel and AMD is pointless for the everyday gamer and enthusiast. Again, you presume intentions and project your own bias. But that's ok...

Seems like I touched off nerve inside you, poked something close to the bone...I bet you got all giddy inside when you read that post about my H8DCE and dual optys, maybe even made your heart jump in anticipation of the impending pwning of chunkymonster...that's ok if you pwned me, tho...it's painfully obvious from this well researched and extensive reply to put me down that you are an angry young man with way too much time on your hands...and being angry is ok as long as it's directed constructively at activities that make you a more productive, healthy, and complete individual...replies and posts like this are not healthy or constructive and will certainly not remove the anger or fill that void in your life...I feel sorry for you, but look on the bright side of life, you won't always be angry and it's gonna be alright Elmo, it's gonna be alright.

Reply to chunkymonster

Elmo,

You truly are a fanbette!

The point of the article was to do nothing more than PUMP the idea that a 1 x C2D can outpace 2 x Dual Opty. Which of course is complete bull! Unless of course you are running insufficient threads to utilise the extra cores in the Opty system. In that case then of course C2D is going to do exaclty what we already know it can do.

Here's a little test for your uber clocked C2D system. Start 4 SuperPI (32M) threads and tell me if your super duper C2D finishes its calculations equally as quickly as when running only 2 threads.

If it manages to survive the cache thrashing the please come back with the results. I'd love to see them.

Till then, stop munching on Intels labia!

Reply to monkeymanuk

Quote :

Elmo,

You truly are a fanbette!

The point of the article was to do nothing more than PUMP the idea that a 1 x C2D can outpace 2 x Dual Opty. Which of course is complete bull! Unless of course you are running insufficient threads to utilise the extra cores in the Opty system. In that case then of course C2D is going to do exaclty what we already know it can do.

Here's a little test for your uber clocked C2D system. Start 4 SuperPI (32M) threads and tell me if your super duper C2D finishes its calculations equally as quickly as when running only 2 threads.

If it manages to survive the cache thrashing the please come back with the results. I'd love to see them.

Till then, stop munching on Intels labia!

Umm this is an easy one.. the author of this thread... he's not looking to run SuperPI..

Perhaps you should have read what he wishes to use the system for before opening your mouth kiddo.

I've proven I'm no fanboy with the massive amounts of rigs I own from either Intel or AMD... why don't you show us all your Intel rigs... oh that's right.. you're an AMD fanboi.

Wow.. another one shot down. At this rate I'll become the most hated individual on THG..

Quote :

Seems like I touched off nerve inside you, poked something close to the bone...I bet you got all giddy inside when you read that post about my H8DCE and dual optys, maybe even made your heart jump in anticipation of the impending pwning of chunkymonster...that's ok if you pwned me, tho...it's painfully obvious from this well researched and extensive reply to put me down that you are an angry young man with way too much time on your hands...and being angry is ok as long as it's directed constructively at activities that make you a more productive, healthy, and complete individual...replies and posts like this are not healthy or constructive and will certainly not remove the anger or fill that void in your life...I feel sorry for you, but look on the bright side of life, you won't always be angry and it's gonna be alright Elmo, it's gonna be alright.

Ummm, no not at all.. I'm as calm as a whistle. The reasoning as to why I'm good at arguing is due to practice. I've come to realise that you cannot sit on an extreme viewpoint and expect to win every argument. Extremism is not healthy.

I'm quite subjective.. soo much so that I feel we should discuss this more on PM. Because the only way people can resolve there differences is through compromising. If you want you can PM me... and we can discuss this further. As any further posts on here will simply feed the trolls.

Reply to ElMoIsEviL

I haven't seen anything to convince me that chunkymonster is a fanboi. He hasn't made any real fanboy-ish comments, like others I can think of (a certain Baron and whatever 9-inch is going by now). I think he's just really confused ... he didn't read the original posters situation very well, or he would quickly realize his mistake.

Clearly, the 4 processor amd system is an excellent machine - for certain applications. However, for a file server, some gaming, and the like, I'd definately go with a conroe system. That is, at least as long as you have a nice, sizable budget, as those budget c2d mobos really don't look so great to me.

I think the two of you should stop arguing about it. Elmo, you don't need to worry about people reading his comments and getting misled, in my opinion - and anyone who is that easily confused deserves to make a purchasing mistake or two. Chunkymonster, if you're really making such a rock-solid case and if you really think your logic (and your understanding of the situation, of the original posters question) is so undeniable, let it rest ... I'm sure people will agree with your posts and your opinion, as you have already set forth, so don't worry. <sigh>

Reply to MattC

So which one is better? Tyan S2895 or a Supermicro H8DCE?

Has anyone used either?

Reply to Synthetickiller

Quote :

So which one is better? Tyan S2895 or a Supermicro H8DCE?

Has anyone used either?

Sorry man, i've never heard of either of those brands or used anything by them!

Why don't you try www.newegg.com and look up some reviews?

Reply to quantumsheep

This is the breakdown between the 2 and why I don't know exactly what to do.

Tyan s2895 MOBO:

PROs:
Same basic layout
PCI-Express x2
8 ram slots (I have 1 gig x8 sticks to use)

CONs:
PCI-Express not spaced well (see comments on newegg)
only 4 sata ports and placed in odd places
Costs more: $420
Only 800 mhz FSB

SuperMicro

Pros:
Good layout
8 sata ports (compared to 4 on the tyan)
PCI-Express ports well spaced for SLI
FSB = 1ghz! (compared to 800)
Costs: $334

CONs:
Problems getting raid to run on windows server 2003 (this could be a MAJOR issue for me)

Other than never using this company, no other issues.

What do u guys think? I love tyan. Other than this board going, I've never had a problem and won't hesitate buying another tyan. Like I've said, I've never used SuperMicro, so I can't say they are good or bad. The sata raid problems with windows server bothers me, but if its easily overcome, then no issues with that board. I'd like to have 8 sata ports in the future as well.

Reply to Synthetickiller

Quote :

This is the breakdown between the 2 and why I don't know exactly what to do.

Tyan s2895 MOBO:

PROs:
Same basic layout
PCI-Express x2
8 ram slots (I have 1 gig x8 sticks to use)

CONs:
PCI-Express not spaced well (see comments on newegg)
only 4 sata ports and placed in odd places
Costs more: $420
Only 800 mhz FSB

SuperMicro

Pros:
Good layout
8 sata ports (compared to 4 on the tyan)
PCI-Express ports well spaced for SLI
FSB = 1ghz! (compared to 800)
Costs: $334

CONs:
Problems getting raid to run on windows server 2003 (this could be a MAJOR issue for me)

Other than never using this company, no other issues.

What do u guys think? I love tyan. Other than this board going, I've never had a problem and won't hesitate buying another tyan. Like I've said, I've never used SuperMicro, so I can't say they are good or bad. The sata raid problems with windows server bothers me, but if its easily overcome, then no issues with that board. I'd like to have 8 sata ports in the future as well.

The supermicro looks a LOT better to me. The problem getting RAID to run on windoze should be sorted if the mobo has been out for 6+ months. If the company hasn't released a patch someone will have released something that will make it work.

Reply to quantumsheep

Reading what a poster mentioned that he had problems getting the raid to work on windows sever convinced me to check out SuperMicro's site.

The board supposdely does NOT support windows server 2003.

http://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/su [...] bility.cfm

I don't get why it wouldn't work. Think this is an issue? I'm just worried about buying the wrong mobo.

Reply to Synthetickiller

I'll have you know I have a nice little Dell optiplex P450 running as quiet as a mouse used as a print server here in my office and, 1 samsung X15 centrino laptop, 1 Dell Inspiron 8500, 1 Athlon 64 3000+ notebook. The two latter notebooks are now only used as archives because quite frankly they are not very portable and have served their purpose.

So along with my X2 rig I'd say that my allegience is reasonably balanced!

Oh and yes I did read the thread correctly but noticed your trolling so was unable to resistops:

One final thought: Just saying you pwned someone doesn't make it true, but you just keep telling yourself spakwad [spack-wod].

Reply to monkeymanuk

You can check out forum threads at http://www.2cpu.com in the motherboard section. As for your upgrade, if you already own the opterons and ram, I would recommand you save some money and just get a new board. Gook Luck! BTW, there's also the Gigabyte GA-2cewh, you can read them all up on the 2cpu forum.

Reply to odk0037

Another Idiot! :evil:

The only real world applications you are talking about are those running a maximum of two seperate threads.

Do you really believe a quad core C2D system would have got better scores on the first five tests than the single C2D system? No, of course not because those first five tests only take advantage of a dual core setup!

Test 1, 3, 4. The xw9300 2.4Ghz opty system performs better than the xw9400 running 64-Bit. So what are we saying that because of these results the the 9300 is better bang for buck? Idiots!

Quote :

Heck, just one of the dual-core Core 2 Extreme chips can beat two of the dual-core Opterons in many tests

As I said before this is another piece of pro Intel marketting attempting to con buyers into believing a lie.

Reply to monkeymanuk

Quote :

I'll have you know I have a nice little Dell optiplex P450 running as quiet as a mouse used as a print server here in my office and, 1 samsung X15 centrino laptop, 1 Dell Inspiron 8500, 1 Athlon 64 3000+ notebook. The two latter notebooks are now only used as archives because quite frankly they are not very portable and have served their purpose.

So along with my X2 rig I'd say that my allegience is reasonably balanced!

Oh and yes I did read the thread correctly but noticed your trolling so was unable to resistops:

One final thought: Just saying you pwned someone doesn't make it true, but you just keep telling yourself spakwad [spack-wod].

Quote :

Great, yet another high end review without real high end graphics tests. What a pile!

If I spend $1000 dollars on a CPU I'm not gonna scrimp on my monitor.

What is the video performance like at 1600 x 1200???

What is SuperPI score running 2 threads of 32M iterations???

We know Conroe is fast, it can perform most tasks without going outside of its own built in cache. That's just dandy.

Here's my real-world test set up!!!

I normally run several applications at once: Dreamweaver, MYSQL, Apache, PHP, Paint Shop Pro 8, Firefox, IE & Windows Media Player. Firefox will generally have 6-8 tabs open as I browse whilst I work. I also play HL2 whilst these applications are active in the background to take a break from my work. That would be a real-word test!!! That is what I do in my day to day work.

My System nevers blinks, I never notice any slow-down (with the exception of Hard Drive). Spec is 3800+ X2 @ 2.5Ghz, 2GB DDR400, 7600GT @ 25% overclock.

I'm quite happy to encode a dvd in the background because it takes a long time regardless of which CPU you are using. I dont really care if Conroe can do it faster, I never sit there waiting whilst it is processing, what idiot does?

Hmmm balanced eh?

You're another fanboi with limited knowledge and a pure unguided hatred for anything Intel. You can claim you own all these systems.. but quite frankly i'm impressed you even own a single machine..let alone know how to use it.

:wink:

And your childish immature insults (spack wad?) are quite tiresome kiddo. Perhaps you can argue with me once you've acquired the needed knowledge. Until then you can go back under the bridge you came from troll :wink:

Geez, it's soo easy to beat you fanboi's. As Tom's keeps a list of all your past posts. And I can pretty much find all your anti-Conroe rhetoric on here.

I mean you're one of those dumb asses who thinks that Core 2 Duo only performs well on programs that fit within it's Cache (mainly games at low res) and your dumb enough to think that the reason Core 2 Extreme X6800 performs similarly in todays games at high resolutions is due to the games executions not fitting within Core 2 Extreme X6800's 4MB Cache. What sort of crack have you been smoking.. it's called a GRAPHICS CARD BOTTLENECK.

Don't believe me.. compare the performance difference between Allendale (2MB Cache) and Conroe (4MB Cache) under games.. the difference is only between 0-6% at low resolutions varying on the game when run at high resolutions the performance difference is NILL.

Until you gather enough knowledge to challenge me in arguments, it would be in your best interest to not try and challenge me in public. It only belittles you. :roll:

Good luck young grasshopper.

Reply to ElMoIsEviL

Quote :

You can check out forum threads at http://www.2cpu.com in the motherboard section. As for your upgrade, if you already own the opterons and ram, I would recommand you save some money and just get a new board. Gook Luck! BTW, there's also the Gigabyte GA-2cewh, you can read them all up on the 2cpu forum.

Thanks. I took at look @ the gigabyte MOBO. Not bad at all. I just have reservations about where the sata ports are located. I have a server case and I can tell you that I'd have to buy new sata cables to make it work. Also, the FSB is 800 mhz and the supermicro is 1000mhz.

Also the supermicro is cheaper.

But thanks, I didn't even know gigabyte made a dual-opty mobo with sli.

Reply to Synthetickiller

Quote :

http://chunkymonster.justgotowned.com

I just pwned myself with that and the whole family liked it.

Reply to clue69less

You've completely got the wrong end of the stick. Spakwad is a term of endearment :oops:

I love your posts, they make me feel all warm and fuzzy!

All your post history is available elsewhere in Toms also :wink: , but I dont have time to go ferreting around trying to find a quote taken out of context. I have a life outside of these forums.

And one more thing, I love all my old hardware. It's like a history of my computers, an evolutionary map if you like.

But if your gonna tell me again that that article was not a pumper then I have no more respect for you!

Reply to monkeymanuk

Oh dear!

I'll reiterate my point shall?

1 x C2D cant run 4 simultaneous SuperPI (cringe!) calcs in the same time as it takes to run 2. Is that clear enough for you????????

Conversely: If you run a single SuperPi calc on a quad core C2D it wont finish any quicker then on a Dual core C2D. Is that simplistic enough for you?

Therefore, testing a quad core system using only two major threads does not utilise the power of that system and thus does not show it in a light that reflects its true abilities. Hence, the article is nothing but a pumper of false information. It's an old propaganda trick and Intel is the king of propaganda!

Reply to monkeymanuk

I think you have a problem interpreting English my man!

I'll try again.

Let's get all practical, you can try this at home.

Create 4 folders and copy SuperPI to each folder. Now execute each instance of SuperPI in each of the four folders. Windows will happily do this for you as it can cope with many many threads.

Now, start each instance of SuperPI calculating up to 32m. What you may notice is that 4 instances of SuperPI takes longer to finish its calculations on a dual core system than it would take to calculate 2 instances.

If you then get a Kentsfield system (wont be long now) and run the same test I would wager that the 4 threads on Kentsfield would take about the same time to calculate as 2 threads on Kentsfield.

If the author of the article in question runs the same benchies on a kentsfield system then it will also show that 4 core system in a bad light.

Thus the article is tosh!

Reply to monkeymanuk

Since my thread was hijacked, I might as well update everyone.

I ended up ordering the SUPERMICRO H8DCE mobo since it was cheaper and had a better fsb.

I also ordered the ASUS EAX1900XT/2DHTV/512 Radeon X1900XT 512MB, b/c the MSI with the $150 dollar rebate was out of stock and i need my comp running asap. It still wasn't a bad deal.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814121554

I'm cooling it with the Accelero X2, I don't konw if anyone has reviewed it since tom did, but I'll tell u guys how well it runs when i get my system up and running.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6835186002

Reply to Synthetickiller

Quote :

CONs:
Problems getting raid to run on windows server 2003 (this could be a MAJOR issue for me)

I'll offer you a different viewpoint which in your case in particular might be helpful.

I don't ever use a motherboard's built in RAID's abilities because that prevents me from moving the hard drives to another motherboard. I always purchase TWO (2) identical RAID controllers and run RAID off of them.

In that way, should the motherboard fail for any reason, I can take the controller and the drives to any other motherboard of my choosing without any problems. This is something you cannot do if you use the onboard RAID controller.

For this reason, I'd say, take a chance on the SuperMicro motherboard and, apply the money you saved towards the purchase of a couple of good RAID controllers.

Also, I've used both Tyan and SuperMicro boards but that was a long time ago and, I think my experience with them is invalid as it was too long ago (5+ years). For the record, both were good, though not stellar boards, they got the job done. I remember not liking the Tyan because it was based on a VIA chipset that was oftentimes a source of headaches but, I hold that against VIA, not Tyan.

HTH.

Reply to 440bx

The only thing that you will notice throughout that article is the woodcrest server rips the opteron, destroys it. 39 % faster in some benchmarks. Go with the core 2, its an excellent processor, if you were considering 2 opterons just go with the woodcrest (destroys the opterons).

Reply to Mike995

Quote :

I think you have a problem interpreting English my man!

I'll try again.

Let's get all practical, you can try this at home.

Create 4 folders and copy SuperPI to each folder. Now execute each instance of SuperPI in each of the four folders. Windows will happily do this for you as it can cope with many many threads.

Now, start each instance of SuperPI calculating up to 32m. What you may notice is that 4 instances of SuperPI takes longer to finish its calculations on a dual core system than it would take to calculate 2 instances.

If you then get a Kentsfield system (wont be long now) and run the same test I would wager that the 4 threads on Kentsfield would take about the same time to calculate as 2 threads on Kentsfield.

If the author of the article in question runs the same benchies on a kentsfield system then it will also show that 4 core system in a bad light.

Thus the article is tosh!

Wow.. you prove your lack of intelligence more and more as time goes by.

The Author of this thread did not ASK about running 4 Threads of SuperPI. He wanted to know REAL WORLD performance. It's all nice and dandy that a 2-Way Dual Core Opteron can run four instances of SuperPI but that's SYNTHETIC benchmarking.

You truly are showing a complete lack of common sense. That article used WORKSTATION applications available TODAY that are the most USED and most likely to be RUN on these two configurations.

Quit the blind fanboyism... seriously.. your arguments are too easy to beat.

Reply to ElMoIsEviL

Quote :

CONs:
Problems getting raid to run on windows server 2003 (this could be a MAJOR issue for me)

I'll offer you a different viewpoint which in your case in particular might be helpful.

I don't ever use a motherboard's built in RAID's abilities because that prevents me from moving the hard drives to another motherboard. I always purchase TWO (2) identical RAID controllers and run RAID off of them.

In that way, should the motherboard fail for any reason, I can take the controller and the drives to any other motherboard of my choosing without any problems. This is something you cannot do if you use the onboard RAID controller.

For this reason, I'd say, take a chance on the SuperMicro motherboard and, apply the money you saved towards the purchase of a couple of good RAID controllers.

Also, I've used both Tyan and SuperMicro boards but that was a long time ago and, I think my experience with them is invalid as it was too long ago (5+ years). For the record, both were good, though not stellar boards, they got the job done. I remember not liking the Tyan because it was based on a VIA chipset that was oftentimes a source of headaches but, I hold that against VIA, not Tyan.

HTH.

You bring up a VERY good point.

So, I have 270 gigs of STUFF on my HDDs. There's no way to just apply a raid driver and it'll boot to winblows? So basically I lose all my data?

Reply to Synthetickiller

If its software raid without a controller, any XP Pro install can read it (but it cant be a boot drive)

If its a RAID array based off a controller, you need that controller and the drivers for it.

An alternative the the suggested solution, is that if you, for example, use the nVraid on an nForce 4 chipset, any nForce 4 motherboard will read it in the future as its the same controller.

Reply to darkstar782

Quote :

If its software raid without a controller, any XP Pro install can read it (but it cant be a boot drive)

If its a RAID array based off a controller, you need that controller and the drivers for it.

An alternative the the suggested solution, is that if you, for example, use the nVraid on an nForce 4 chipset, any nForce 4 motherboard will read it in the future as its the same controller.

Call me a bit slow. Its been a while since I've really tinkered with computers (last time I overclocked was with jumpers on the mobo). I found a pci card that has the same chip (sil3114) as the old mobo I had. So,the drivers will work and I can just plug and play or at least make it work so I don't have to lose all my data?

PCI sata raid card:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6816132006

tyan s2885 mobo
http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8w_spec.html

Reply to Synthetickiller

Forum CPU & Components : CPUs - AMD Socket F (1207) vs Conroe ??????

Please mind