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Substituting a laptop screen for a PC monitor

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

I would like to build a "luggable" computer and use my existing PC
as the core. The idea is to use the Pc motherboard and to use a laptop
screen and keyboard if that is possible. Is there a way to use my
existing laptop for the monitor and keyboard by plugging it in to the
pc.
Thanks in advance
Rick

Add a reply

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 00:02:09 -0700, Rick Wilmath
<wilmath@efn.org> wrote:

> I would like to build a "luggable" computer and use my existing PC
>as the core. The idea is to use the Pc motherboard and to use a laptop
>screen and keyboard if that is possible. Is there a way to use my
>existing laptop for the monitor and keyboard by plugging it in to the
>pc.
>Thanks in advance
>Rick

Usually, no, time and time again someone asks "how do i use
a laptop screen with a PC", and the answer is the same, that
the screen has a proprietary laptop-integral display driver
(hardware) integral to that display adapter, that isn't
duplicated by any cost-effective alternative.

If you want an LCD for a PC, buy the appropriate monitor.

OTOH, if you have the whole laptop, install an appropriate
OS, upgrade as needed, and use it whole, not trying to
integrate it with a PC beyond a network interface.

"Existing laptops" can be a real treasure, because they were
designed when battery capacity was somewhat lower, so when
retrofitted with modern batteries, you may get higher than
~4 hours runtime. Some people try to replace a desktop with
a laptop, but for others (myself included), a portable is a
PITA if it won't run for over 8 hours, or at least as long
as possible... unpowered laptops have infinitely low
performance.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

> I would like to build a "luggable" computer and use my existing PC
> as the core. The idea is to use the Pc motherboard and to use a laptop
> screen and keyboard if that is possible. Is there a way to use my existing
> ptop for the monitor and keyboard by plugging it in to the pc.

That is not how "luggables" are made:
o Luggable-Box
---- Outer ABS/Alloy Box + Shock-Mounts + Inner Alloy/Steel Frame
---- Designed-in Keyboard drops down from the front
o Luggable-TFT
---- Desktop TFT - Panel-Mount form, normal/daylight-viewable/touchscreen on 1/4"-plate
---- Rarely Laptop TFT - requires pricey/dedicated/slow/limited PCI video adapter card
o Desktop/Server/Industrial Board
---- from M-ATX P3, to E-ATX Dual-Xeon, to Industrial 24-slot PCI backplane
o Desktop/Server HD/Optical
---- several 10k-rpm WD Raptor (desktop) or RAID 15.3k SCSI array (server)
o I/O Ports
---- Standard PC I/O backplane or Mil-Spec waterproof style connectors

The Luggable-Box/TFT are available off-the-shelf at ~500-1600$US depending on
whether you want a basic 15"-TFT or a 19" daylight-viewable touchscreen item ($).

You can make a luggable-enclosure yourself:
o Luggable-Enclosure
---- Case = Flight-Case, Shock-Mounts = Paulstra Diabolo/Evigdom mounts
---- Inner-Frame = T-Slot Structural Aluminium Framing (20x20mm, eg, Bosch Rexroth)
o Luggable-TFT
---- Desktop TFT mounted via rear VESA mount

The logic for a luggable comes down to application:
o Military/Emergency/Contractor -- Portable Server
---- More power & storage than a laptop
---- Easier to upgrade with desktop components than a laptop (re TCO)
o Industrial -- Data-Logging
---- Field usable rugged 24-PCI-card backplane for data-logging
---- NASA, GM, Nuclear, R&D, Telco
o Rugged -- As rugged as you like, except not waterproof
---- ie, from a shock perspective there is more sway-space potential
o Multiple PCs
---- Nothing to stop you fitting 2-3 PCs inside one
---- Remote location on-demand server capability (FEMA)
o Temperature
---- Laptops are limited to 35oC ambient, since they run hotter
---- Many environments require 45oC even 50-55oC ambient operating
---- Hitachi do extended-temp 2.5" 20GB drives cheaply, eg, -20oC to +85oC

Cooling can be difficult:
o Server grade equipment kicks out a lot of heat - and often noise
o So 80-120mm fans with careful acoustics - or sounds like a hot-air hand dryer
o Even so a luggable with 6x 15.3k-rpm SCSI RAID sounds like hail on glass

You CAN use a laptop screen as a PC monitor:
o Virtually - using the laptop to thin-client into another PC
---- via Ultra-VNC or XP Remote Desktop, older Terminal Server, Winframe/Citrix
o Physically - using a special PCI card with output for laptop-TFTs
---- absolutely no point re huge card cost, huge laptop TFT cost v cheap desktop

I built one (several in fact for various people) for the specific purpose of mobility:
o Very powerful laptops are expensive - after 3-4 changes you've spent a huge sum
o A luggable carcass will do 3-4 mainboard changes - after which time it has saved 3-4k

The more powerful & rugged your requirements, the more expensive things get.
The 'luggable' market is very small indeed - and corporate economic buyers.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan for quiet Panaflo fans & other items
www.dorothybradbury.co.uk (free delivery)

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

You have completely convinced me that grafting a laptop on to a pc
won't work, however is there a way of using a pc,with all its power,
in a client/server situation without a monitor for the pc?
Thanks for your help
Rick

On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:04:07 GMT, "Dorothy Bradbury"
<dorothy.bradbury@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>> I would like to build a "luggable" computer and use my existing PC
>> as the core. The idea is to use the Pc motherboard and to use a laptop
>> screen and keyboard if that is possible. Is there a way to use my existing
>> ptop for the monitor and keyboard by plugging it in to the pc.
>
>That is not how "luggables" are made:
>o Luggable-Box
>---- Outer ABS/Alloy Box + Shock-Mounts + Inner Alloy/Steel Frame
>---- Designed-in Keyboard drops down from the front
>o Luggable-TFT
>---- Desktop TFT - Panel-Mount form, normal/daylight-viewable/touchscreen on 1/4"-plate
>---- Rarely Laptop TFT - requires pricey/dedicated/slow/limited PCI video adapter card
>o Desktop/Server/Industrial Board
>---- from M-ATX P3, to E-ATX Dual-Xeon, to Industrial 24-slot PCI backplane
>o Desktop/Server HD/Optical
>---- several 10k-rpm WD Raptor (desktop) or RAID 15.3k SCSI array (server)
>o I/O Ports
>---- Standard PC I/O backplane or Mil-Spec waterproof style connectors
>
>The Luggable-Box/TFT are available off-the-shelf at ~500-1600$US depending on
>whether you want a basic 15"-TFT or a 19" daylight-viewable touchscreen item ($).
>
>You can make a luggable-enclosure yourself:
>o Luggable-Enclosure
>---- Case = Flight-Case, Shock-Mounts = Paulstra Diabolo/Evigdom mounts
>---- Inner-Frame = T-Slot Structural Aluminium Framing (20x20mm, eg, Bosch Rexroth)
>o Luggable-TFT
>---- Desktop TFT mounted via rear VESA mount
>
>The logic for a luggable comes down to application:
>o Military/Emergency/Contractor -- Portable Server
>---- More power & storage than a laptop
>---- Easier to upgrade with desktop components than a laptop (re TCO)
>o Industrial -- Data-Logging
>---- Field usable rugged 24-PCI-card backplane for data-logging
>---- NASA, GM, Nuclear, R&D, Telco
>o Rugged -- As rugged as you like, except not waterproof
>---- ie, from a shock perspective there is more sway-space potential
>o Multiple PCs
>---- Nothing to stop you fitting 2-3 PCs inside one
>---- Remote location on-demand server capability (FEMA)
>o Temperature
>---- Laptops are limited to 35oC ambient, since they run hotter
>---- Many environments require 45oC even 50-55oC ambient operating
>---- Hitachi do extended-temp 2.5" 20GB drives cheaply, eg, -20oC to +85oC
>
>Cooling can be difficult:
>o Server grade equipment kicks out a lot of heat - and often noise
>o So 80-120mm fans with careful acoustics - or sounds like a hot-air hand dryer
>o Even so a luggable with 6x 15.3k-rpm SCSI RAID sounds like hail on glass
>
>
>You CAN use a laptop screen as a PC monitor:
>o Virtually - using the laptop to thin-client into another PC
>---- via Ultra-VNC or XP Remote Desktop, older Terminal Server, Winframe/Citrix
>o Physically - using a special PCI card with output for laptop-TFTs
>---- absolutely no point re huge card cost, huge laptop TFT cost v cheap desktop
>
>I built one (several in fact for various people) for the specific purpose of mobility:
>o Very powerful laptops are expensive - after 3-4 changes you've spent a huge sum
>o A luggable carcass will do 3-4 mainboard changes - after which time it has saved 3-4k
>
>The more powerful & rugged your requirements, the more expensive things get.
>The 'luggable' market is very small indeed - and corporate economic buyers.

Reply to Anonymous

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

I use my notebook to remote into my desktop all the time. The desktop is not
2 feet away, but it's a lot easier to remote into it than to even use a
switcher. I use my desktop for video games and play on its own CRT monitor,
but when I'm working, I'll use my notebook and remote into my desktop to do
things like rendering, filesharing, run IIS for testing, other server apps.
You can't remote into it to play games though.

-Max

"Rick Wilmath" <wilmath@efn.org> wrote in message
news:bc9il0dsqq7r6hg7bp4q1c8csobc6cs9eq@4ax.com...
>
> You have completely convinced me that grafting a laptop on to a pc
> won't work, however is there a way of using a pc,with all its power,
> in a client/server situation without a monitor for the pc?
> Thanks for your help
> Rick
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:04:07 GMT, "Dorothy Bradbury"
> <dorothy.bradbury@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>> I would like to build a "luggable" computer and use my existing PC
>>> as the core. The idea is to use the Pc motherboard and to use a laptop
>>> screen and keyboard if that is possible. Is there a way to use my
>>> existing
>>> ptop for the monitor and keyboard by plugging it in to the pc.
>>
>>That is not how "luggables" are made:
>>o Luggable-Box
>>---- Outer ABS/Alloy Box + Shock-Mounts + Inner Alloy/Steel Frame
>>---- Designed-in Keyboard drops down from the front
>>o Luggable-TFT
>>---- Desktop TFT - Panel-Mount form, normal/daylight-viewable/touchscreen
>>on 1/4"-plate
>>---- Rarely Laptop TFT - requires pricey/dedicated/slow/limited PCI video
>>adapter card
>>o Desktop/Server/Industrial Board
>>---- from M-ATX P3, to E-ATX Dual-Xeon, to Industrial 24-slot PCI
>>backplane
>>o Desktop/Server HD/Optical
>>---- several 10k-rpm WD Raptor (desktop) or RAID 15.3k SCSI array (server)
>>o I/O Ports
>>---- Standard PC I/O backplane or Mil-Spec waterproof style connectors
>>
>>The Luggable-Box/TFT are available off-the-shelf at ~500-1600$US depending
>>on
>>whether you want a basic 15"-TFT or a 19" daylight-viewable touchscreen
>>item ($).
>>
>>You can make a luggable-enclosure yourself:
>>o Luggable-Enclosure
>>---- Case = Flight-Case, Shock-Mounts = Paulstra Diabolo/Evigdom mounts
>>---- Inner-Frame = T-Slot Structural Aluminium Framing (20x20mm, eg, Bosch
>>Rexroth)
>>o Luggable-TFT
>>---- Desktop TFT mounted via rear VESA mount
>>
>>The logic for a luggable comes down to application:
>>o Military/Emergency/Contractor -- Portable Server
>>---- More power & storage than a laptop
>>---- Easier to upgrade with desktop components than a laptop (re TCO)
>>o Industrial -- Data-Logging
>>---- Field usable rugged 24-PCI-card backplane for data-logging
>>---- NASA, GM, Nuclear, R&D, Telco
>>o Rugged -- As rugged as you like, except not waterproof
>>---- ie, from a shock perspective there is more sway-space potential
>>o Multiple PCs
>>---- Nothing to stop you fitting 2-3 PCs inside one
>>---- Remote location on-demand server capability (FEMA)
>>o Temperature
>>---- Laptops are limited to 35oC ambient, since they run hotter
>>---- Many environments require 45oC even 50-55oC ambient operating
>>---- Hitachi do extended-temp 2.5" 20GB drives cheaply, eg, -20oC to +85oC
>>
>>Cooling can be difficult:
>>o Server grade equipment kicks out a lot of heat - and often noise
>>o So 80-120mm fans with careful acoustics - or sounds like a hot-air hand
>>dryer
>>o Even so a luggable with 6x 15.3k-rpm SCSI RAID sounds like hail on glass
>>
>>
>>You CAN use a laptop screen as a PC monitor:
>>o Virtually - using the laptop to thin-client into another PC
>>---- via Ultra-VNC or XP Remote Desktop, older Terminal Server,
>>Winframe/Citrix
>>o Physically - using a special PCI card with output for laptop-TFTs
>>---- absolutely no point re huge card cost, huge laptop TFT cost v cheap
>>desktop
>>
>>I built one (several in fact for various people) for the specific purpose
>>of mobility:
>>o Very powerful laptops are expensive - after 3-4 changes you've spent a
>>huge sum
>>o A luggable carcass will do 3-4 mainboard changes - after which time it
>>has saved 3-4k
>>
>>The more powerful & rugged your requirements, the more expensive things
>>get.
>>The 'luggable' market is very small indeed - and corporate economic
>>buyers.
>

Reply to Max

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

> You have completely convinced me that grafting a laptop on to a pc
> won't work, however is there a way of using a pc,with all its power,
> in a client/server situation without a monitor for the pc?

Yes - and very easily :-)

A) Thin-Client Software Solution
o Thick-Server - PC used for its power, without a PC monitor/keyboard
o Thin-Client - Laptop used for its monitor/keyboard

This is either free or requires XP-Pro:
o Free -- Ultra-VNC (also Tight-VNC, and before that we had plain VNC)
o XP-Pro -- XP Remote Desktop

Either require some form of connection - typically network.
If just 2 machines are involved then a Cross-Over RJ45 cable is used.

You execute apps on the remote PC, the local laptop is your keyboard & screen.

B) Twin-PC Hardware Solution
o PC & Laptop linked via 2-port KVM
o PC monitor/keyboard control both machines

This one tends to be less attractive as laptops need to be kept open to
some degree to allow cooling - the keyboard is a major heatsink area.

For some people, using 2 low-end machines is cheaper than 1 high-end:
o 2 PCs give you a backup in case one fails
---- a KVM is not prone to a virus transmission unlike a network link
o 2 PCs allows 1 task to be done on one, whilst you work on the other
---- that can provide better interactivity than even a dual-CPU power-pc
o 2 PCs allows both to be low-end, combined better than a high-end for some tasks
---- this is particularly true where 1 task takes time or is heavily I/O-bound
---- eg, one used for rendering, MPEG, calculation, dbase searches, OCR etc
o 2 PCs allows both to be low-end models, but combined better than a high-end
---- depending on the application of course, but particularly if I/O is involved

You can also use a 2-port KVM with a laptop & desktop, however there
can be some issues with this - laptops need their lids open for cooling,
and some KVMs may need to be powered as laptops don't supply much.

A lot of coloco & companies use laptops as the front-end to servers, and
its commonplace if you are configuring either Telco (value added services)
or Router (switch fabric, routing fabric) via the console port or network.

The P-M is a good fast near-desktop CPU - but not quite for some tasks,
and at quite a substantial premium for a "cheap as chips" recycled P4 m/b,
bt of memory, P4-2.8-HT, and even moderate 7200rpm 3.5" HD re I/O latency.
"Outsourcing" the real CPU work to a PC rather than a laptop can be useful.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan for quiet Panaflo fans & other items
www.dorothybradbury.co.uk (free delivery)

Reply to Anonymous

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