Help with options for data back-up Raid SCSI?? Just some i..

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In my home network.
2 pc's and 1 tablet PC
All ran through router (wired and wireless)
Tablet does not need a redundant back-up

Main PC stores video and images
other PC stores images.

I lost 2 hardrives in 2 days!!!

Main PC has SCSI 160 card with 4 drives and 1 80gig IDE for backup
Secondary PC has 3 IDE drives, no back-up.

I want something that will keep 2 copies at the same time.
Can I convert my SCSI machine to something like RAID??

Or should I buy dedicated SATA drives with a raid controller and start
from scratch??

This would not be a major problem if I kept up with my DVD back-ups...
so I need something automatic and redundant.

thanks!

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Fishhead <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119645419.150386.80770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> In my home network.
> 2 pc's and 1 tablet PC
> All ran through router (wired and wireless)
> Tablet does not need a redundant back-up

> Main PC stores video and images
> other PC stores images.

> I lost 2 hardrives in 2 days!!!

On the same system PC ? If it was, there's likely a reason for that.

> Main PC has SCSI 160 card with 4 drives and 1 80gig IDE
> for backup Secondary PC has 3 IDE drives, no back-up.

> I want something that will keep 2 copies at the same time.
> Can I convert my SCSI machine to something like RAID??

Yes, but thats got real downsides for backup.

It doesnt help if you need the backup for a virus
infection, user stupidity, fire, theft, flood etc.

> Or should I buy dedicated SATA drives with
> a raid controller and start from scratch??

Really depends on what you want to do about backup and raid.

> This would not be a major problem if I kept up with my DVD back-ups...
> so I need something automatic and redundant.

It isnt hard to do completely automated backup to a SATA drive.
That will fix the problem with a virus or user stupidity.

If its a removable drive, and you are prepared to take the
drive offsite and have another thats used when one is offsite,
that will fix the problem with fire/theft/flood etc too.

Not ideal if you are prone to dropping things tho.

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"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119645419.150386.80770@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> In my home network.
> 2 pc's and 1 tablet PC
> All ran through router (wired and wireless)
> Tablet does not need a redundant back-up
>
> Main PC stores video and images
> other PC stores images.
>
> I lost 2 hardrives in 2 days!!!
>
> Main PC has SCSI 160 card with 4 drives and 1 80gig IDE for backup
> Secondary PC has 3 IDE drives, no back-up.
>
> I want something that will keep 2 copies at the same time.
> Can I convert my SCSI machine to something like RAID??

RAID is not as substitute for backup.

> Or should I buy dedicated SATA drives with a raid controller and start
> from scratch??

SATA and RAID are two different things. Yes you should use removable SATA
drives for backup and no they likely shouldn't be RAID.

> This would not be a major problem if I kept up with my DVD back-ups...

Use removable SATA drives instead of DVD for backups but DVDR backups will
work but are likely too small for convenient operation.

> so I need something automatic and redundant.

Actually you likely need neither. You need redundant backups where one is
always offsite but that's different from redundant storage like RAID 1 or
RAID 5. Having to manually initiate the backup nightly/periodically
shouldn't be too difficult. However automating that process to run
automatically is feasible.

Use something like Acronis TrueImage to create compressend image backups of
the HDs. Direct these image file[s] to removable SATA HDs in trays like
KingWin KF-83(~$30). Get >=2 such SATA HDs and always keep one offsite.

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"Rod Speed" <rod_speed@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3i3a95Fjhm8gU1@individual.net...

> > This would not be a major problem if I kept up with my DVD back-ups...
> > so I need something automatic and redundant.
>
> It isnt hard to do completely automated backup to a SATA drive.

Speedo gets it wrong again. Automated image backups to SATA drives are
easy.

> That will fix the problem with a virus or user stupidity.
>
> If its a removable drive, and you are prepared to take the
> drive offsite and have another thats used when one is offsite,
> that will fix the problem with fire/theft/flood etc too.
>
> Not ideal if you are prone to dropping things tho.

Use a shock mounted tray like a KingWin KF-83 and get a padded carrying
case. That reduces the "drop threat" to very acceptable levels.
Non-spinning current HDs are not all that shock sensitive. They are shipped
all over the world daily in two layers of bubble wrap with few problems.

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I am doing video editiing and photo editing.
The SCSI drives are a big bonus!!!

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

I figure my apps and WinXP are safe on single SCSI drives. and if they
crash I can always reinstall from CD... (which isn't always a bad
thing)

How do I upgrade/replace my IDE data drives.
2 PC's with their own data.
I would like redundant data swapped between each PC.
My photos I work with on PC 1 are backed up on PC2
My video's I work with on PC 2 are backed up on PC1

SCSI SATA IDE RAID?? What do I need?

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"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119652655.822081.197370@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> My primary concern for backup (redundancy) is harddrive failure.


The question is whether you concern is primarily for the last hour's/day's
work where RAID helps. OR whether your bigger concern is losing the entire
contents of the HD where backup is the solution. Until you are covered by a
good backup scheme any thought of RAID is a waste of time.

> I keep my OS (winXP) and progam files and data on 3 separate drives.
> I need a redundant real time back-up for my data drives

NO, you need backup. Then you can think about redundancy.

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Could I make 1 PC into a sort of Data server... that would store and
back it all up. (my wife could still use it to surf the web)

And then my main PC to do all the work???

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"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119653235.395613.160350@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I figure my apps and WinXP are safe on single SCSI drives. and if they
> crash I can always reinstall from CD... (which isn't always a bad
> thing)

Usually a very labor intensive and therefore expensive proposition. Keep a
regular image backup of the OS HD as you'll find that much valuable setup,
update, configuration and tuning is kept there.

> How do I upgrade/replace my IDE data drives.
> 2 PC's with their own data.
> I would like redundant data swapped between each PC.
> My photos I work with on PC 1 are backed up on PC2
> My video's I work with on PC 2 are backed up on PC1
>
> SCSI SATA IDE RAID?? What do I need?


You need nightly/periodic backups to a removable media and keep a copy
offsite. The best option there is a couple of removable [S]ATA HDs in shock
mounted trays like KingWin KF-83. Keeping two copies on different PCs in
the same room covers VERY FEW threats.

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"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119653693.481623.53210@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Could I make 1 PC into a sort of Data server... that would store and
> back it all up. (my wife could still use it to surf the web)

Why do you insist on avoiding the obvious solution.. REDUNDANT OFFSITE
BACKUPS.

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"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119652799.031453.280850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> The data drives that failed were from each PC.
> These were both older (cheap) large capcity drives.
> They were both IDE
>
> My SCSI drives are older, and have never had problems.


They will eventually. BUT that has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

> The SCSI drives store WinXP and program files (one drive for each)
> Large SCSI drives are expensive, so I chose IDE for storage.
> SCIS is faster, so I have 15k rpm (smaller drives)

Triple cost small 15K RPM SCSI HDs only outperform single top [S]ATA HDs by
a small amount in video/photo editing performance. [S]ATA RAID 0 is big and
inexpensive and blows a single expensive 15K RPM SCSI HD away in video
editing and photo editing performance. You bought the myth of SCSI.

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Maybe cause my SCSI drives are 15k and my IDE are 7.2k

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"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119654770.229641.188760@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Maybe cause my SCSI drives are 15k and my IDE are 7.2k


Late model top 7200K RPM [S]ATA are faster in single user workstation
including video/photo editing usage than an early 15K RPM SCSI HD. Then
there's the 10K RPM [S]ATA Raptor.

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Fishhead <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119653538.846167.225170@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> I have no back-up...
> unless I start buring to DVD...

> I could care less about an day/hour of work.
> It is the total drive

Then completely automated backup to another drive is the answer.

Best done overnight because otherwise the backup will
be a significant load on the system while you are using it.

Best done to a SATA drive because you can choose to
unplug that, hot, if you say want to provide a bit more
security against theft of the system when you are out etc.

If you are confident that you cant be robbed and that the risk
of fire and flood are very low, an internal drive would be fine.

RAID is no use to you, its more hassle than its worth.

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"Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news9i4kb01qbc@enews4.newsguy.com...
> "Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> news:Yo0ve.1020459$w62.661905@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> >
> > "Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1119652799.031453.280850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > > The data drives that failed were from each PC.
> > > These were both older (cheap) large capcity drives.
> > > They were both IDE
> >
> > > The SCSI drives store WinXP and program files (one drive for each)
> > > Large SCSI drives are expensive, so I chose IDE for storage.
> > > SCIS is faster, so I have 15k rpm (smaller drives)
> >
> > Triple cost small 15K RPM SCSI HDs only outperform single top [S]ATA HDs
by
> > a small amount in video/photo editing performance. [S]ATA RAID 0 is big
and
> > inexpensive and blows a single expensive 15K RPM SCSI HD away in video
> > editing and photo editing performance. You bought the myth of SCSI.
> >
> Clueless. He uses SCSI for the OS, not video.

Gisin troll gets it wrong as usual. Expensive SCSI for the OS drive in
single user workstation usage contributes little to performance over an
[S]ATA HD.

> The prefered configuration for video/audio production is independent 7200
drives, not RAID 0.

Even idiots get a true/false right half the time.

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Your replies are great... but there are no off site locations.

Where is off-site going to be?
Your house?
A hole in my background?

I only own one location.... Thats my house.

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"Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:iX0ve.1020626$w62.687293@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Eric Gisin" <ericgisin@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news9i4kb01qbc@enews4.newsguy.com...
> > "Ron Reaugh" <ron-reaugh@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
> > news:Yo0ve.1020459$w62.661905@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > >
> > > Triple cost small 15K RPM SCSI HDs only outperform single top [S]ATA HDs
> by
> > > a small amount in video/photo editing performance. [S]ATA RAID 0 is big
> and
> > > inexpensive and blows a single expensive 15K RPM SCSI HD away in video
> > > editing and photo editing performance. You bought the myth of SCSI.
> > >
> > Clueless. He uses SCSI for the OS, not video.
>
> Gisin troll gets it wrong as usual. Expensive SCSI for the OS drive in
> single user workstation usage contributes little to performance over an
> [S]ATA HD.
>
I didn't say anything about perfomance. But 15K is faster than any IDE for power users.

Same old troll song. Clueless as ever.

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They are networked together.
And they (will) have plenty of space

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage,comp.periphs.scsi (More info?)

> They are networked together.
> And they (will) have plenty of space

Then, just create backup scripts and schedule them.

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Fishhead <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119666156.883624.278350@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> I always thought the access times on the SCSI drives were the lowest..

> And then there is the low CPU use.

Myth with modern IDE drives with DMA enabled.

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"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119666156.883624.278350@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> I always thought the access times on the SCSI drives were the lowest..


Higher RPM gives faster access time. Access time is only a part of a HD's
performance. Same RPM SCSI doesn't give significantly better performance
in single user workstation usage. SCSI excels in saturated server I/O
because of the onboard command queuing. You have listed many of the basic
elements of the SCSI myth that has been perpetrated on the public by SCSI
zealots who derive income from SCSI configurations.

> And then there is the low CPU use.


No lower than current [S]ATA....another SCSI myth(flat out lie)

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I now have all SCSI in 1 PC and all IDE in the other.
They have the same MB, CPU, same memory and same OS.

My SCSI is much faster, and is not bogged down in photo shop.

The IDE drivers are UDMA133 type 7200 RPM
My SCSI is 160 type 15k RPM

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So there is no reason to upgrade the SCSI drives??

When I am in photoshop, I might open 50 files at once, 20meg each.
These run in batches, the SCSI system blows the IDE away.

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Western Digital SATA Raptor 74GB
apacity: 74 GB
RPM: 10,000
Interface: SATA
Cache: 8 MB
Read Seek: 5.2 ms
Write Seek: 5.9 ms
Latency: 2.99 ms

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"Fishhead" <gregarpp@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1119669424.225998.20720@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> So there is no reason to upgrade the SCSI drives??

No cost efficient reason.

> When I am in photoshop, I might open 50 files at once, 20meg each.
> These run in batches, the SCSI system blows the IDE away.

Then get a WDC Raptor or two(RAID 0).