SLI is back

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Wed, 12 May 2004 20:33:50 -0500, Destroy wrote:

> Alienware released their new tech:
>
> Video Array is an accelerated graphics processing subsystem that will
> allow users to add multiple, off-the-shelf video cards to their
> Alienware computer systems and have both cards process graphic commands
> in parallel.

Do you have a link for this?

--

"Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.
You won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."
-- General George S. Patton, Jr.

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WOW get 20% increase in speed and pay 400 bucks for the privilage, the
second card




On Wed, 12 May 2004 23:25:48 -0400, "magnulus"
<magnulus@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>
>"James Riske" <james_riske@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>newsan.2004.05.13.03.18.50.907000@localhost.debian.org...
>> Do you have a link for this?
>>
>
> It's based on some technology by Metabyte. I have no idea how it works,
>but apparrently they have been messing around with SLI configurations since
>the TNT days.
>
> I'm not sure how it works... or IF it works. Videocards have evolved well
>past the point where all they did was basic triangle setup and rendering.
>I believe it might work by some proprietary bridge and chipset.
>

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"We Live For The One We Die For The One" <Mr fred@yahoo.com.au> wrote in
message news:k4r5a0duv76s3qn5ojv3fb6al5m6sesm19@4ax.com...
>
> WOW get 20% increase in speed and pay 400 bucks for the privilage, the
> second card
>
You'll pay a whole lot more then $400 if you have to buy one of their
systems to be able to do it! Have you priced a Alienware PC lately! There
not cheap. JLC

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"Destroy" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
news:bdAoc.59198$u_4.12711@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> Alienware released their new tech:
>
> Video Array is an accelerated graphics processing subsystem that will
> allow users to add multiple, off-the-shelf video cards to their
> Alienware computer systems and have both cards process graphic commands
> in parallel.
>

That's Voodootwo-ariffic!

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

Destroy wrote:
> Alienware released their new tech:
>
> Video Array is an accelerated graphics processing subsystem that will
> allow users to add multiple, off-the-shelf video cards to their
> Alienware computer systems and have both cards process graphic commands
> in parallel.
>

Nah, what Alienware "released" was a press statement saying they are
planning on developing this tech. Hopefully it pans out for them and
maybe we'll see the return of SLI, but it's not here today, or anytime
too soon. (slated for Q3/Q4)

Here's some more info:

http://www.alienware.com/press_rel [...] y_0512.asp
http://arstechnica.com/news/posts/1084398037.html
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid [...] 52&tid=185

--
cK

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Vince wrote:
> "cK-Gunslinger" wrote
>
>>Destroy wrote:
>>
>>>Alienware released their new tech:
>>>
>>
>>Nah, what Alienware "released" was a press statement saying they are
>>planning on developing this tech. Hopefully it pans out for them and
>>maybe we'll see the return of SLI, but it's not here today, or anytime
>>too soon. (slated for Q3/Q4)
>
>
> Q3 is soon.


Maybe, but the "End of September, 2003" release for HL2 was "soon" a
year ago. But I don't see it yet. =P I'm just saying, release dates
slip (for both software and hardware), and I've learned to wait until
there is a shipping product before I beleive too much hype.

Otherwise, I'd be playing Duke Nukem Forever, Half-Life 2, Team Fortress
2, and Doom 3 on my brand new BitBoys' video card, or maybe on my
Phantom Gaming Console. *grin*

--
cK

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"cK-Gunslinger" <cK@nowayinhell.com> wrote in message
newsSNoc.4$cZ2.2@dfw-service2.ext.ray.com...
> Destroy wrote:
> > Alienware released their new tech:
> >
> > Video Array is an accelerated graphics processing subsystem that will
> > allow users to add multiple, off-the-shelf video cards to their
> > Alienware computer systems and have both cards process graphic commands
> > in parallel.
> >
>
> Nah, what Alienware "released" was a press statement saying they are
> planning on developing this tech. Hopefully it pans out for them and
> maybe we'll see the return of SLI, but it's not here today, or anytime
> too soon. (slated for Q3/Q4)
>
> Here's some more info:
>
>
http://www.alienware.com/press_rel [...] y_0512.asp
> http://arstechnica.com/news/posts/1084398037.html
>
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid [...] 52&tid=185
>
> --
> cK

You can bet that this "extreme performance system" will cost $4,000 +. JLC

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"JLC" <j.jc@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:5D7pc.48824$z06.6960904@attbi_s01...
>
> "Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:2gkc16F3mv75U1@uni-berlin.de...
> >
> > "Destroy" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
> > news:bdAoc.59198$u_4.12711@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > > Alienware released their new tech:
> > >
> > > Video Array is an accelerated graphics processing subsystem that will
> > > allow users to add multiple, off-the-shelf video cards to their
> > > Alienware computer systems and have both cards process graphic
commands
> > > in parallel.
> >
> > It will never work.
> >
> > 1. If you only have 1 monitor, then it can only be connected to 1 card
> > (Doh!)
> > 2. Which means that what work is done by the other card, the results
have
> to
> > be copied across to the card containing the frame buffer. Even at
> > PCI-Express speeds, this will be sloooooow.
> >
> > I don't know what these guys have been smoking. Maybe they have plans
for
> > multiple-monitor setups. I could just about believe that. But for a
> single
> > monitor setup, I cannot see this improving anything.
> >
> > Chip
> >
> I guess you never had two 3DFX Voodoo cards running in SLI. I did and they
> were great back in the day. I'm not saying that this new idea is going to
> pan out, but I'm sure they have worked around the monitor connection
> problem. The Voodoo cards were build with a connecter on their sides that
> allowed you to plug in a second Voodoo card into it. Then you had a small
> monitor cable that you ran from the bottom card to the top card. You then
> plugged your top card into your monitor.
> Worked fantastic! JLC

But you forget one *crucial* piece of information. The 3dfx cards were
*designed* to work in SLI mode! The hair-brain Alienware idea is that it
will work with normal video cards. And given that normal video cards have
no clue about how to render alternative scan lines, then only thing I can
image they will do is come up with some fancy driver wrapper than decides
which vertices (and which pixels) will be processed by each card and then
splits the work between the two cards. And then takes the rendered pixels
from one card and transfers them to the other for z-buffer processing and
final rendering.

It will be brilliant.... not. If this ever sees the light of day, I will be
amazed.

Chip

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On Fri, 14 May 2004 15:15:55 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
wrote:


>There's a bit of a difference between the voodoo2 which was designed to
>run solo or be linked to another voodoo2, and some feature on a
>motherboard to stick two video cards into, that _were_ _not_ designed to
>work together.
>
>It the difference between 2 random people, and a set of twins.
>
>Xocyll

Personally, I would never want dual vid cards, just as I wouldn't want
dual cpu's. And there are two reasons for that, 2 means twice as much
heat and twice as much noise.

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Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in
news:ai6aa052fm6din1f1455mtl3j8e07lbhkk@4ax.com:

> There's a bit of a difference between the voodoo2 which was designed
> to run solo or be linked to another voodoo2, and some feature on a
> motherboard to stick two video cards into, that _were_ _not_ designed
> to work together.
>
> It the difference between 2 random people, and a set of twins.

I have to agree this idea sounds pretty hare-brained. I mean, why not
just buy a faster video card? And if you already have the fastest, are
you really going to want another $400ish video card just to gain a few
FPS? I don't think the consumer market is going to really support this
idea even if they get it to work, unless it just works FABULOUSLY and you
can get almost twice the performance out of 2 cards versus 1.

Knight37

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Things are different now Andrew. I think you still live in voodoo2 era.
Thinking that every normal card is designed to run in SLI is not sane.
Unless ATI and Nvidia decide to put enormous effort into develop versions of
their cards that can be run in SLI, performance gain would be at most 2-5%
in best case scenario. It's not likely that ati or nvidia would do something
like that in the first place, if they wanted to do that, they'd have done it
way way back.


"Andrew" <spamtrap@localhost> wrote in message
news:t0eaa05b2uli4q7odo7agfq04ro7135m4c@4ax.com...
> On 14 May 2004 21:19:10 GMT, Knight37 <knight37m@email.com> wrote:
>
> >I have to agree this idea sounds pretty hare-brained. I mean, why not
> >just buy a faster video card? And if you already have the fastest, are
> >you really going to want another $400ish video card just to gain a few
> >FPS? I don't think the consumer market is going to really support this
> >idea even if they get it to work, unless it just works FABULOUSLY and you
> >can get almost twice the performance out of 2 cards versus 1.
>
> You weren't around when the Voodoo 2's came out were you.
> --
> Andrew. To email unscramble nrc@gurjevgrzrboivbhf.pbz & remove spamtrap.
> Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
> please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text.
> Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

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On Fri, 14 May 2004 21:50:50 GMT, "Asestar" <a s e s t a r @ s t a r t
.. n o> patronised:

>Things are different now Andrew. I think you still live in voodoo2 era.

3D cards I have owned: Voodoo 1, Voodoo 2, Voodoo 2 SLI, Voodoo 3,
Geforce Pro, Geforce 2 GTS, Geforce 3, Geforce 4 4400, 9700 Pro.

I think I have moved on.

>Thinking that every normal card is designed to run in SLI is not sane.

Of course they are not designed to, but there is a lot of hardware
that enterprising people have stretched to do things way beyond what
they were designed to do.

>Unless ATI and Nvidia decide to put enormous effort into develop versions of
>their cards that can be run in SLI, performance gain would be at most 2-5%
>in best case scenario.

Based on what data? You think Alienware would bother going through
this exercise if that was all the improvements it would yield?
--
Andrew. To email unscramble nrc@gurjevgrzrboivbhf.pbz & remove spamtrap.
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

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"Xocyll" <Xocyll@kingston.net> wrote in message
news:ai6aa052fm6din1f1455mtl3j8e07lbhkk@4ax.com...
> "JLC" <j.jc@nospam.com> looked up from reading the entrails of the porn
> spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:
>
> >
> >"Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message
> >news:2gkc16F3mv75U1@uni-berlin.de...
> >>
> >I guess you never had two 3DFX Voodoo cards running in SLI. I did and
they
> >were great back in the day. I'm not saying that this new idea is going to
> >pan out, but I'm sure they have worked around the monitor connection
> >problem. The Voodoo cards were build with a connecter on their sides that
> >allowed you to plug in a second Voodoo card into it. Then you had a small
> >monitor cable that you ran from the bottom card to the top card. You then
> >plugged your top card into your monitor.
> >Worked fantastic! JLC
>
> There's a bit of a difference between the voodoo2 which was designed to
> run solo or be linked to another voodoo2, and some feature on a
> motherboard to stick two video cards into, that _were_ _not_ designed to
> work together.
>
> It the difference between 2 random people, and a set of twins.
>
> Xocyll
> --
I realize that this is a totally different concept. I was replaying to the
guy that thought that because you have two vid cards it didn't make since
that they could work together because you only have one monitor. That was
the only point I was making. I read also on one of the links about the new
tech, that it's speculated that you could use two different brands of cards.
I can't see how that could possibly work. Wouldn't that really confuse a
game when it was starting up and trying to figure out what card it was going
to run on? Of course that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to
potential problems.
The whole thing sounds more like and experiment then a full on retail
product. And not to mention the cost. It will be amazingly expensive. That
MB alone will probably cost $300 or more plus the cost of the extra vid
card. Plus the fact that you can only get this tech if you buy an Alienware
PC which cost to much already. JLC

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On Fri, 14 May 2004 21:16:59 -0500, Ryan E. <tron_1982@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>That's insane. Proof positive you play tech demos instead of games.

Jealousy is a terrible thing. Your Kyro card is struggling a bit is
it?
--
Andrew. To email unscramble nrc@gurjevgrzrboivbhf.pbz & remove spamtrap.
Help make Usenet a better place: English is read downwards,
please don't top post. Trim messages to quote only relevant text.
Check groups.google.com before asking a question.

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"JLC" <j.jc@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:Xfgpc.95236$Ik.7373086@attbi_s53...
>
> The whole thing sounds more like and experiment then a full on retail
> product. And not to mention the cost. It will be amazingly expensive. That
> MB alone will probably cost $300 or more plus the cost of the extra vid
> card. Plus the fact that you can only get this tech if you buy an
Alienware
> PC which cost to much already. JLC
>

It sounds like an experiment alright, a marketing experiment. Being a high
end vendor I'm sure Alienware is always looking for something to distinguish
themselves from the pack. It doesn't have to be revolutionary, just unique
and intriguing enough to justify their inflated price point. There are
always people who will blindly spend more because they think they're getting
something for it. To me it just sounds like something Alienware is using to
enhance their image as an innovative, exotic PC vendor.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

On Sat, 15 May 2004 03:51:06 GMT, "JLC" <j.jc@nospam.com> wrote:

>
>"Ryan E." <tron_1982@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:sbvaa0te273rrq63uqo300b52n12274mjh@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 14 May 2004 23:08:37 +0100, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost> wrote:
>>
>> >>Things are different now Andrew. I think you still live in voodoo2 era.
>> >
>> >3D cards I have owned: Voodoo 1, Voodoo 2, Voodoo 2 SLI, Voodoo 3,
>> >Geforce Pro, Geforce 2 GTS, Geforce 3, Geforce 4 4400, 9700 Pro.
>>
>> That's insane. Proof positive you play tech demos instead of games.
>
>Are you serious? You must be one of those guys that belive that they only
>need to upgrade there vid card every 4 years or so. And games look great at
>640x480.
>Since 12/98 I've owned two Voodoo 2's that I ran in SLI at the same time I
>had a 16MB Diamond Viper V550 TNT card in the AGP slot, a GeForce 256,
>GeForce 3 Ti-200, GeForce 4 Ti-4200, and what I'm running now which is a ATI
>9800Pro. And belive me I'm a hard core gamer. Have been since I was 12 and
>I'm 43 now. JLC
>
I skip a generation, at least after the arrival of dedicated 3d cards.

I went from Voodoo 1 (a Banshee, I think) to GeForce 256 to GeForce 3
Ti200.

My next will be a ATI, I think, as my Gf3 runs so hot it's started to
malfunction - I can now only play games with the side of my PC off,
otherwise it overheats and bluescreens.

--

Bunnies aren't just cute like everybody supposes !
They got them hoppy legs and twitchy little noses !
And what's with all the carrots ?
What do they need such good eyesight for anyway ?
Bunnies ! Bunnies ! It must be BUNNIES !

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On Sat, 15 May 2004 03:51:06 GMT, "JLC" <j.jc@nospam.com> wrote:

>> >3D cards I have owned: Voodoo 1, Voodoo 2, Voodoo 2 SLI, Voodoo 3,
>> >Geforce Pro, Geforce 2 GTS, Geforce 3, Geforce 4 4400, 9700 Pro.
>>
>> That's insane. Proof positive you play tech demos instead of games.
>
>Are you serious? You must be one of those guys that belive that they only
>need to upgrade there vid card every 4 years or so. And games look great at
>640x480.
>Since 12/98 I've owned two Voodoo 2's that I ran in SLI at the same time I
>had a 16MB Diamond Viper V550 TNT card in the AGP slot, a GeForce 256,
>GeForce 3 Ti-200, GeForce 4 Ti-4200, and what I'm running now which is a ATI
>9800Pro. And belive me I'm a hard core gamer. Have been since I was 12 and
>I'm 43 now. JLC

I bought my first graphics accelerator (Voodoo 2) for Quake II which
was around fall 1997. Quake II is less than seven years old and I've
acquired 4 accelerator cards since that time (three of which are still
in service. I built an Athlon system for work early last year and am
using one of those cards, a TNT2 on a 17' FPM). That's a bad enough
record considering I also buy game consoles for their exclusive
content.

High resolutions are not a sole determinating factor in making games
look good. There is such a thing as good design and high levels of
polish. But I can see how PC only gamers overlook that when developers
are more interested in creating engines for licensing and selling
buggy tech demos which they knowingly ship buggy, and may or may not
fix later.

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On Fri, 14 May 2004 21:16:59 -0500, Ryan E. <tron_1982@yahoo.com>
wrote:


>That's insane. Proof positive you play tech demos instead of games.

Me too.
S3 Virge>Voodoo1>Voodoo2>Voodoo3>Geforce2>Voodoo5>another
Geforce2>Radeon8500>Geforce4>Radeon9800pro.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

> I can't believe how obsessed the industry has become with resolution. And
> yet its almost completely irrelevant.

Depends a lot on hardware its being viewed on however. HUGE difference
between 1600x1200 and 800x600 on a 21 inch monitor. Resolution is very
important.

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My line goes like:
some S3 pci, Matrox Mystique, Voodoo2, Voodoo2SLI, Ati RageXL, Voodoo3
3000agp, Kyro2 64mb, Gf2 gts 64mb (died), radeon 8500le (died), mobility
9000, 9600se, mobility 9600 pro..




"Allan Sheely" <NO@MAIL.HERE> wrote in message
news:r07ca0dtknoglie23nv6k11rtta8cv73bi@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 14 May 2004 21:16:59 -0500, Ryan E. <tron_1982@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >That's insane. Proof positive you play tech demos instead of games.
>
> Me too.
> S3 Virge>Voodoo1>Voodoo2>Voodoo3>Geforce2>Voodoo5>another
> Geforce2>Radeon8500>Geforce4>Radeon9800pro.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

> It sounds like an experiment alright, a marketing experiment. Being a high
> end vendor I'm sure Alienware is always looking for something to distinguish
> themselves from the pack. It doesn't have to be revolutionary, just unique
> and intriguing enough to justify their inflated price point. There are
> always people who will blindly spend more because they think they're getting
> something for it. To me it just sounds like something Alienware is using to
> enhance their image as an innovative, exotic PC vendor.

Here is more so how it works, ripped from
http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=43
--------
Although the first ALX systems certainly seem impressive, it is the
Video Array system found on the following model which has the potential
to take performance to a whole new level. In short, the patent pending
Video Array is a system which utilizes two PCI-Express graphics cards to
maximize performance. Although seeming alarmingly similar to the famous
SLI technology found on Voodoo cards of old, the new Video Array system
takes a totally new approach. Here, each graphics card is responsible
for rendering a specific portion of the screen. Typically, the screen is
divided into two horizontal halves. The job of rendering each portion is
then dictated to the appropriate card by a “video merger hub”. This
hardware component is able to take signals from the default video
drivers and can allocate responsibilities to either graphics card.
Overall, the separation of workload is hoped to increase performance
more than 40% over typical platforms in most applications. This
performance advantage is said to increase according to how taxing the
application may be. Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 fans rejoice as this new
system seems custom tailored to these titles.
---------

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"Destroy" <no@thanks.com> wrote in message
newsIwpc.1937$zn.249@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
> > It sounds like an experiment alright, a marketing experiment. Being a
high
> > end vendor I'm sure Alienware is always looking for something to
distinguish
> > themselves from the pack. It doesn't have to be revolutionary, just
unique
> > and intriguing enough to justify their inflated price point. There are
> > always people who will blindly spend more because they think they're
getting
> > something for it. To me it just sounds like something Alienware is using
to
> > enhance their image as an innovative, exotic PC vendor.
>
> Here is more so how it works, ripped from
> http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=43
> --------

Thanks for the link! JLC

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"Allan Sheely" <NO@MAIL.HERE> wrote in message
news:2m7da0tssd23u7861iiqps2uqcapriq3rq@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 15 May 2004 22:20:04 GMT, Destroy <no@thanks.com> wrote:
>
>
> >Here is more so how it works, ripped from
> >http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=43
> >--------
> >The job of rendering each portion is
> >then dictated to the appropriate card by a "video merger hub". This
> >hardware component is able to take signals from the default video
> >drivers and can allocate responsibilities to either graphics card.

I have no problem with the "separation of the work" idea.

What I have a problem with is the "display of the results"! Given that you
can only attach the monitor to 1 card, how are you supposed to get the
output from the other card onto the screen? The only way is back across the
PCI-Express bus. The bandwidth of which is nowhere near large enough to
compete with the 256bit, 1000MHz+ bandwidth of the cards' video memory.
PCI-Express will be a big bottleneck!

Chip

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Allan Sheely <NO@MAIL.HERE> looked up from reading the entrails of the
porn spammer to utter "The Augury is good, the signs say:

>On Fri, 14 May 2004 15:15:55 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
>wrote:
>
>
>>There's a bit of a difference between the voodoo2 which was designed to
>>run solo or be linked to another voodoo2, and some feature on a
>>motherboard to stick two video cards into, that _were_ _not_ designed to
>>work together.
>>
>>It the difference between 2 random people, and a set of twins.
>
>Personally, I would never want dual vid cards, just as I wouldn't want
>dual cpu's. And there are two reasons for that, 2 means twice as much
>heat and twice as much noise.

If can effectively silence one, you can silence two.

There are lots of effective yet quiet cooling solutions, but they aren't
the cheaper ones.

Having as much heat as a modern video card produces, and having it
doubled, close together could be a problem, but that could be dealt with
easily enough by good case/airflow design.

Xocyll
--
I don't particularly want you to FOAD, myself. You'll be more of
a cautionary example if you'll FO And Get Chronically, Incurably,
Painfully, Progressively, Expensively, Debilitatingly Ill. So
FOAGCIPPEDI. -- Mike Andrews responding to an idiot in asr

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action,alt.comp.periphs.videocards.ati (More info?)

"Allan Sheely" <NO@MAIL.HERE> wrote in message
news:5baaa01sqrt5opdpjimn89bnn8ikv5c1k6@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 14 May 2004 15:15:55 -0400, Xocyll <Xocyll@kingston.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> >There's a bit of a difference between the voodoo2 which was
designed to
> >run solo or be linked to another voodoo2, and some feature on a
> >motherboard to stick two video cards into, that _were_ _not_
designed to
> >work together.
> >
> >It the difference between 2 random people, and a set of twins.
> >
> >Xocyll
>
> Personally, I would never want dual vid cards, just as I wouldn't
want
> dual cpu's. And there are two reasons for that, 2 means twice as
much
> heat and twice as much noise.

If you read the description of the Alienware setup, you will see that
they are liquid cooling their two card rigs,
so no noise and little heat....