Modern warfare 2 - 18 rating questions - possible spoiler

i'm thinking of buying mw2 for someone, is there anything other than the shoot the hostage scene that might warrant the 18 cert? i'm happy with violence in general and moral issues with the hostage scene, but drugs, sex, random violence against innocents is more of an issue.

so the question is, is there any other reason for the 18? Xbox360 version.

thanks for the help.

We're happy with death and destruction for the 'right' reasons, but not the semi random gta type violence, not yet at least anyway, don't get me wrong i'm not a wishy washy liberal parent, but until i've played it i'm not sure if there's anything else of import. So i'm asking those that have played it, is there anything else (so that I can make a decision based on that), i don't expect there to be, but it can't hurt to find out.

I'm not a follower of (is it thompson over in the states) or keith vaz who seems to be jumping on the bandwagon, just need to know if this is COD4 with a single scene that is questionable or something else.

Its not in that great detail either he's only got a little screen

there are reasons that are more 'right' than I have a baseball bat and they happened to be there, i.e. someone holding gun to someones head, would using violence in those circumstances be justified to the same level as the first example?

morals are not black and white, i just want to know what shade of grey we are talking about.

shall we start up a seperate thread to discuss is violence ever justified, its only one of the age-old questions maybe we could have a stab (no pun intended) at it.

If theyre 18 give them the money and they can buy it themselves, otherwise you shouldnt buy it for them at all. full stop.

There's been a massive hoo-ha in the uk about violence in video games this week, the bottom line was that people who supply games to underage kids are the problem.

It's the same as MW1 with different weapons, maps, etc.... let the kid play....

Let me refresh you guys with MW1, the intro had a hostage scene, militants blindfolding hostages and then executing them in front of a wall, a man on his knees beggin for mercy and then shot in the forehead... So all of this nonsense reagarding the violence is basically mild compared to other games that are by far worse but still accepted by ESRB.

Because "The Man" or "The System" made an arbitrary decision, that if you are 17 years old and 364 days, you can't buy the game. But if you wait 24 more hours, you can. Something in those last 24 hours makes you mature enough to realize that the violence is all fun and games and that you won't be so impressionable or so easily influenced that you'll act out the game in real life.

The questioned shouldn't be so much in "Why 18" but in "How 18?"
All Zen Masters who also happen to be fans of CoD4, if there are any, please feel free to share your insights.

will it turn them into mindless slavering zombies with gun fetishes and the urge to shoot people...

well at least they'll be of use in the coming zombie apocalypse/scavenge for the last drops of water/fuel/food