Verizon Wireless billing trick, scam $40 "mistake"

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
Choice" plan.

On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
charges and additional benefits.

They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
bill came, with some surprises:

1/ TRICK

Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your "month"
can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.

The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had 400
peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents per
minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".

2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]

The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year by
365 = 13.15 minutes per day.

The accurate number should take into account that weekends are free.
2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes apply.
4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.

3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"

They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
per line on two-year agreements."

My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.

Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.

QE in NJ

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Did they sign up at a VZW store or an agent?
The stores are usually very thorough to point out the
prorating to a billing cycle. Let me guess -- billing
cycle is the 25th of each month? Not very random.

This is so commonly misunderstood that customer
service usually has the overage charges refunded before
you finish explaining what happened. Same will apply
if you change plans in the middle of a billing cycle but
they are not so apt to give you the auto refund then.

Your idea of not counting holidays is interesting.
Plans are monthly. Contracts are for years. When
prorating they figure by the month. Unused minutes
do not carry over from month to month and not all
months have holidays in them. How would you
resolve that?

The activation fee was probably the mistake of the
sales person entering the contracts.

Here is a trick it sounds like you missed:
Try calling customer service and explain what
happened and ask what they can do for you.

-Quick

QuienEs wrote:
> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
> Choice" plan.
>
> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
> per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
> charges and additional benefits.
>
> They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
> bill came, with some surprises:
>
> 1/ TRICK
>
> Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
> SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your "month"
> can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
> 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
>
> The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
> pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
> beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had 400
> peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
> pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
> enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents per
> minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
>
> 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
>
> The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
> Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year by
> 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
>
> The accurate number should take into account that weekends are free.
> 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes apply.
> 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
>
> 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
>
> They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
> activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation fee
> per line on two-year agreements."
>
> My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
> department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
> activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
> their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
>
> Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
>
> QE in NJ

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Those negotiations will take place tomorrow or Friday, must be done
by my relatives, you know the drill - they want to be talking to
their subscriber.

What I can promise is to post a follow-up - after the negotiations and
when I have time.

The purpose of my OP was to divulge the scam and trick to the readers
of this NG, and see if we missed anything.

Why am I involved you might ask ? Because I told them that Verizon
was worth switching to, from ATT. So, I caught some flack. I'm
still on ATT because VZW doesn't have good signal strength in my
wife's work building.

QE
===========

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:51:51 GMT, Notan <notan@ddress.com> wrote:

|QuienEs wrote:
|>
|> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
|> Choice" plan.
|>
|> <snip>
|
|Have you asked Verizon for a "corrected" bill?
|
|Notan

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Talk with customer care. Make that "worry free guarantee" work and let us
know

"QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
> Choice" plan.
>
> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

QuienEs wrote:
> Those negotiations will take place tomorrow or Friday, must be done
> by my relatives, you know the drill - they want to be talking to
> their subscriber.
>
> What I can promise is to post a follow-up - after the negotiations and
> when I have time.
>
> The purpose of my OP was to divulge the scam and trick to the readers
> of this NG, and see if we missed anything.
>
> Why am I involved you might ask ? Because I told them that Verizon
> was worth switching to, from ATT. So, I caught some flack. I'm
> still on ATT because VZW doesn't have good signal strength in my
> wife's work building.
>
> QE
> ===========
>
> On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:51:51 GMT, Notan <notan@ddress.com> wrote:
>
> |QuienEs wrote:
> |>
> |> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
> |> Choice" plan.
> |>
> |> <snip>
> |
> |Have you asked Verizon for a "corrected" bill?
> |
> |Notan
>

They did the same thing to me when I switched to the family plan in the
middle of the month. I refused to accept losing nearly 200 minutes
because Verizon has a policy to always extract the most from their
customers. Since I wasn't told the policy upfront, customer service
agreed to allow the total minutes I would have had coming, had they not
"pro-rated."

I have dropped Verizon dsl, pots, and just as soon as another provider
builds up their network to the point where they can provide the service
I need, I will finally drop Verizon wireless.

If you think about it, "Killer Madness" may not be as "mad" as he
appears. The fact is that your relatives would not have to worry about
customer service making things right if Verizon didn't have a policy
that unfairly penalizes customers.

Tom

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Clarification to my OP

I posted it to document what they did and get some joy that it will be
archived in Google Groups forever, and to see if I have missed any
other tricks. I wasn't a reader of this particular NG until today.

What KM says below is in sync with my feelings. Maybe someday there
will be a class action suit about the 13-minutes vs. 18-minutes scam.
Over the years I have automatically received the benefits of such
suits, no great shakes, but I got several free calling cards from MCI
and AT&T. The trick there is that they run out too soon if you don't
use them. The lawyers got paid in cash.

BTW, after years of suffering from this kind of corporate abuse, I
already know how to handle this with Verizon and agree with the
posters who said call them up and be nice. But why should we have to
waste time on that ? And what about the millions who don't check
their bills carefully ?

Pragmatic, pessimistic QE
======================


On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 22:38:15 -0400, "Killer Madness"
<killermo@cnet.com> wrote:

|My god, hasn't anyone read my posts about this company? They will of
course
|make EVERY mistake in their favor. Never will you find a mistake in
your
|favor. The billing system was written very carefully NEVER to make a
favor
|in the customer's favor. If that happened, the company would go
bankrupt or
|fall apart because the incompetent work force wouldn't have a clue
where
|their money went. *Some* customer's just blow it off and forget about
|it...and there's the rub. Those customer's that do that just dumped
millions
|into Verizon's bank account. If you make *mistakes* to millions of
|customer's your bound to get some money out of it. And that's
Verizon's
|thinking. Welcome to my world of the fat greedy frauderlant mouth of
|Verizon.
|
|"QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
|news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
|> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
|> Choice" plan.
|>
|> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
|> per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
|> charges and additional benefits.
|>
|> They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
|> bill came, with some surprises:
|>
|> 1/ TRICK
|>
|> Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
|> SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your
"month"
|> can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of random,
|> 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
|>
|> The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
|> pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
|> beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had
400
|> peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
|> pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
|> enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents
per
|> minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
|>
|> 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
|>
|> The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
|> Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year
by
|> 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
|>
|> The accurate number should take into account that weekends are
free.
|> 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes
apply.
|> 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
|>
|> 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
|>
|> They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
|> activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation
fee
|> per line on two-year agreements."
|>
|> My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
|> department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
|> activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume
that
|> their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
|>
|> Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
|>
|> QE in NJ
|
|

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Thank you Tom. And of course we'll come to expect people saying, "did you
read the fine print", or, "did you ask those questions before signing". I
bet half the people in this group has been robbed or has had money taken
from them every month without even knowing about it. Not a lot of money to
notice right away...but like I said before. When you have billing *mistakes*
happen to hundred of thousands of people, your going to get a lot of money
out of it.

"Tom" <tom@cox.net> wrote in message news:a3LEc.16232$rf7.8402@lakeread02...
> QuienEs wrote:
> > Those negotiations will take place tomorrow or Friday, must be done
> > by my relatives, you know the drill - they want to be talking to
> > their subscriber.
> >
> > What I can promise is to post a follow-up - after the negotiations and
> > when I have time.
> >
> > The purpose of my OP was to divulge the scam and trick to the readers
> > of this NG, and see if we missed anything.
> >
> > Why am I involved you might ask ? Because I told them that Verizon
> > was worth switching to, from ATT. So, I caught some flack. I'm
> > still on ATT because VZW doesn't have good signal strength in my
> > wife's work building.
> >
> > QE
> > ===========
> >
> > On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:51:51 GMT, Notan <notan@ddress.com> wrote:
> >
> > |QuienEs wrote:
> > |>
> > |> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
> > |> Choice" plan.
> > |>
> > |> <snip>
> > |
> > |Have you asked Verizon for a "corrected" bill?
> > |
> > |Notan
> >
>
> They did the same thing to me when I switched to the family plan in the
> middle of the month. I refused to accept losing nearly 200 minutes
> because Verizon has a policy to always extract the most from their
> customers. Since I wasn't told the policy upfront, customer service
> agreed to allow the total minutes I would have had coming, had they not
> "pro-rated."
>
> I have dropped Verizon dsl, pots, and just as soon as another provider
> builds up their network to the point where they can provide the service
> I need, I will finally drop Verizon wireless.
>
> If you think about it, "Killer Madness" may not be as "mad" as he
> appears. The fact is that your relatives would not have to worry about
> customer service making things right if Verizon didn't have a policy
> that unfairly penalizes customers.
>
> Tom

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Baloney..... C'mon already, knock it off......!

PC

"Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote in message
news:0FUEc.3364$YK5.2588@fe32.usenetserver.com...
| Sorry...that's not going to work. You'll get an arrogant incompetent
| customer service person helping you out who doesn't like your attitude and
| then you'll never get any kind of customer service satisfaction at all.
| Remember, they have the best cellular network in the world...so we have to
| bow down to them and let them take advantage of us and charge high prices.
|
| "Alesandra" <rubyebbyrdNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| news:2khbe8F2akdeU1@uni-berlin.de...
| > Talk with customer care. Make that "worry free guarantee" work and let
us
| > know
| >
| > "QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
| > news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
| > > Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
| > > Choice" plan.
| > >
| > > On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
| >
| >
|
|
|

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Killer Madness <killermo@cnet.com> wrote:
: I'm taking a dump. You can't be serious to *have* to be nice to get some
: help, specially when it's a known billing mistake or a frauderlant code
: written in their billing software.

Please - it's "fraudulent", not frauderlent.

...and I know that when I deal with upset customers, I'm much more inclined
to help out the people who are calm, rational, and polite.

If your angle is to always be confrontational and angry with them (which
it sounds like you are recommending) then it's not surprising that you
don't get satisfaction from calling customer service!

--
Charles Robinson
Minneapolis, MN
charlesr@visi.com
http://www.visi.com/~charlesr

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

QuienEs wrote:
> On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 18:01:53 -0700, "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Did they sign up at a VZW store or an agent?
>> The stores are usually very thorough to point out the
>> prorating to a billing cycle. Let me guess -- billing
>> cycle is the 25th of each month? Not very random.
>
> As I recall, it starts on the 14th. As to the rest of your post, it
> looks like you cut-and-pasted in some "boilerplate" - I did not
> mention holidays. Nobody carries over minutes except Cingular
> around here. As to calling them, read my post above.

Yes, it probably does sound like some "boilerplate". You
(or your relatives) must be about the 1,532,349th person
to not hear about/listen to/understand the initial prorating.
So the answer is pretty much refined to something that
sounds the same every time. Sorry, you haven't unearthed
some previously unknown Enron magnitude "scam". To
the best of my knowledge customer service has refunded
the overage in 1,532,337 of those cases for new customers.
Thank you for trying to protect all of us though.

What's the hold up on your relatives calling customer service?
*611 works 24x7. You and they have free long distance.
Should take all of 15 minutes including your posting the results.

-Quick

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Proconsul wrote:


> | > Actually it looks to me like the dealer made the mistake. (There are
> | > Verizon stores all over New Jersey. Why didn't you go to one of them?)
> | > But mistakes happen, and you'll live longer if you don't get so
> | > aggravated about them. I'm sure they'll fix the problem.


It is not a mistake, it is Verizon policy. Apparently the customer
service rep. is supposed to mention the "pro-rating" upfront, but if
they don't and you don't catch it, too bad. The policy was NOT
mentioned to me.

Picture this - I have an 800 minute plan and exactly midway through the
month I decide to add a line with a family share plan. If I had used
600 minutes at this point leaving me with 200 minutes left to use over
the balance of the month, I would have, under Verizon's pro-rated
method, used 200 minutes more than I am allotted under their pro-rating.
Despite the fact that I have 800 minutes to use at any time during my
monthly period, Verizon will penalize me by charging me for using 200
minutes in overage, in my case 200 X $.45 minute = $90, instead of
allowing me to use the actual 400 minutes that I had not used. In other
words, Verizon says I should have only used 400 minutes halfway through
the month, despite the fact that it is normally my choice when and how I
use the minutes.

I do not consider Verizon's pro-rating policy to be customer friendly at
all. I also object to spending my time trying to have money returned
that should have never been taken from me in the first place. I do
agree that it is better to be "nice," since this is a policy of Verizon
management, not the csr. Tom

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Tom wrote:
> Proconsul wrote:
>
>
>>>> Actually it looks to me like the dealer made the mistake. (There
>>>> are Verizon stores all over New Jersey. Why didn't you go to one
>>>> of them?) But mistakes happen, and you'll live longer if you don't
>>>> get so aggravated about them. I'm sure they'll fix the problem.
>
>
> It is not a mistake, it is Verizon policy. Apparently the customer
> service rep. is supposed to mention the "pro-rating" upfront, but if
> they don't and you don't catch it, too bad. The policy was NOT
> mentioned to me.
>
> Picture this - I have an 800 minute plan and exactly midway through
> the month I decide to add a line with a family share plan. If I had
> used 600 minutes at this point leaving me with 200 minutes left to
> use over the balance of the month, I would have, under Verizon's
> pro-rated method, used 200 minutes more than I am allotted under
> their pro-rating. Despite the fact that I have 800 minutes to use
> at any time during my monthly period, Verizon will penalize me by
> charging me for using 200 minutes in overage, in my case 200 X $.45
> minute = $90, instead of allowing me to use the actual 400 minutes
> that I had not used. In other words, Verizon says I should have only
> used 400 minutes halfway through the month, despite the fact that it
> is normally my choice when and how I use the minutes.

Sure. *IF* you have your plan for the entire month. You decided
to terminate your plan in the middle of the month and switch to a new plan.
How do you propose they charge you? How should they charge
if you used 1500 minutes of a 2000 minute plan by the middle of the
month and want to switch to a 400 minute plan?

I must have switched plans 10 times over the past years. *Every* time
the CS rep. has strongly suggested that I wait until the end of the billing
period so as not to get caught with prorating charges. It actually bugs
me somewhat that I have to take the time to tell them that I am actually
capable of grasping how prorating works and am then forced to listen
while it is explained again in excrutiating detail. If I was VZW I would
cut a lot of overhead by simply not allowing people to switch plans in
the middle of a billing period.

I'm pretty sure I've seen the prorating explained in writing as well
(wasn't it on my contract?)... maybe in the brochures I got with
every new plan?

-Quick

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Quick wrote:


> Sure. *IF* you have your plan for the entire month. You decided
> to terminate your plan in the middle of the month and switch to a new plan.
I didn't consider myself to have terminated my plan; I thought I added
to it. Point of fact; had the rep. told me of Verizon's policy, I would
have emphatically said, "No thanks."

> How do you propose they charge you?
I should have had the balance of the month to use the balance of my
minutes (had I only 10 minutes left for the month, that is the time I
would expect to still have after making the change). I would then
expect to pay a pro-rated amount for the time I had the additional
benefit of the family share plan. At $19.99 mo. per line, a half month
should have cost me $10.

How should they charge
> if you used 1500 minutes of a 2000 minute plan by the middle of the
> month and want to switch to a 400 minute plan?
Your example is not at all like what I described, but in your example I
would expect to pay the over usage fee of 500 mins. X $.45, since I
would be downgrading to a lower minute plan.

> I must have switched plans 10 times over the past years. *Every* time
> the CS rep. has strongly suggested that I wait until the end of the billing
> period so as not to get caught with prorating charges. It actually bugs
> me somewhat that I have to take the time to tell them that I am actually
> capable of grasping how prorating works and am then forced to listen
> while it is explained again in excrutiating detail. If I was VZW I would
> cut a lot of overhead by simply not allowing people to switch plans in
> the middle of a billing period.
Like I said, the csr did NOT mention the pro-rating. Had he done so, I
would have simply waited until the first day of my new billing cycle.

> I'm pretty sure I've seen the prorating explained in writing as well
> (wasn't it on my contract?)...

I don't remember; by the time I finished reading the contract I had a
headache and truly wished I didn't need a cell phone.

Tom

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"QuienEs" <QuienEsREMOVETHISandthis@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:4dm6e05tfdvl32f838hr55bftnci06bgb0@4ax.com...
> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
> Choice" plan.
>
> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
> per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
> charges and additional benefits.
>
> They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
> bill came, with some surprises:
>snipped



Minutes are figured on monthly basis, not yearly. They divide 30 days into
whatever plan you have. Yes, it doesn't take into account there are some
days that may be weekend days but thats just how it works. Its not some big
scam you are making it out to be. Its clearly laid out in the Customer
Agreement. It should have been explained to them when they got the phones.
There is even a printout that comes with the contract that shows exactly the
prorated charge for the month and the minutes allowed.

As far as the activation fees, I have never seen anyone get charged
incorrectly on them. A simple call to CS should fix that. Would of been
alot quicker than coming on here and posting about it.


KC

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Quick <dhorwitz@nospamcisco.com> wrote:

> What? You mean you couldn't have made the plan change a
> couple of days early to be *effective* on you billing cycle?
> It would change in the system at midnight, last day of the
> current plan.

Um, I could have, actually a CSR offered to do this for me; but I still
would have to wait 30 days, regardless. Even if the change takes effect at
midnight on the first day of the billing cycle, you still have to pay the
full bill according to the plan *you just switched from* and while you wait
30 days to get your money back, it sits in VZW's checking account, presumably
collecting interest. 'Scuse me? I don't think so. As I pointed out to the CSR
I was talking to, VZW will turn my service off if I wait thirty days to pay
my bill. They obviously expect prompt payment. Therefore, when I am due a
credit, I will expect prompt issuance of the credit from them.

And it is a problem because not only am I switching due to things being
broken here and not getting fixed, I'm trying to minimize my cellular costs
right now; I'm underemployed and looking for contract work at this particular
moment. I need the money *now.*

I complained long enough to end up getting a credit for my troubles from
the CSR, but it still hasn't posted yet. I'll give it another day or two
before I complain; I've been issued recent credits for dropped-call problems
and they seem to take an average of three business days to make it to my
account.

The one other time I had a credit issue was when VZW mistakenly posted a
check that was supposed to have been post-dated. They very readily agreed
to give me my money back, but said it would take six to eight weeks, after
which I informed them that they would be paying all of my bounced check fees
if they did. I had to keep on them, and that meant calling every day, but I
managed to get the check within about a week, and got the check deposited
just in time, before other stuff started bouncing.

If VZW owes you a credit, you *really* have to hound them...

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steven J Sobol wrote:


> And it is a problem because not only am I switching due to things being
> broken here and not getting fixed, I'm trying to minimize my cellular costs
> right now; I'm underemployed and looking for contract work at this particular
> moment. I need the money *now.*

Good luck with your search for contract work. Tom

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

I vote "idiot troll"....

"Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message news:r-GdncSlIYhHrHndRVn-hQ@lmi.net...
> Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
> > "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:
> >
> >>Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage - you are
> >>excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
> >
> > That was uncalled for.
>
> No, it wasn't. Have you read KM's posts? All he wants to do is scream about
> how he's being screwed. If he was serious about being screwed he'd already have
> taken action against Verizon, including dropping them and going to another
> carrier.
>
> I used to be a wage-slave flunkie working at a gas station owned by one
> of the big oil companies (now I'm a self-employed, slightly better-paid
> flunkie
>
> I recall an experience with a customer who was a cantankerous jerk (though,
> in his defense, he was also an extremely loyal, regular customer).
>
> At the time, we were selling a small bottle of V8 for 89 cents and tomato
> juice (the same size) for 99 cents. Or it may be the other way around; the
> important thing is that one was 89 cents and the other one was 99.
>
> So the customer pumps his gas, and walks in and picks out the 89-cent
> product and brings it to the counter, but I mistakenly think it's the 99-cent
> product. HOWEVER, I catch myself before I ring it up and, thinking out loud,
> I say, "Oops, this isn't 99, it's 89."
>
> This, of course, prompts the customer to tell me I'm trying to cheat him.
>
> Duh, if I was trying to cheat him I'd just have rung it up at 89 and kept
> the dime. Besides, if I was going to risk my lousy little minimum-wage job
> by screwing over a customer, I'd have attempted to screw over a customer
> for a lot more than a dime. A dime is not worth the trouble.
>
> Point being - there *are* people who will take a situation and twist it around
> to portray it in the worst light possible. KM seems to be one of those people.
> OTOH, maybe he's just an idiot troll.
>
> --
> JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
> Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
> PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
> Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Killer Madness wrote:
>
> Hey Putz...I bet no one EVER on here posted a billing mistake in the
> customer's favor. How is that possible with so many customer's? O, I know.
> The billing system was designed to NEVER make a mistake IN the customer's
> favor. Most of you have missed my point and are only thinking of yourselves
> and have no clue on what I've been saying the last couple months. I'm even
> talking like white trailer-trash teenager and still no one can understand
> me.

It's not a matter of not having a clue, it's a matter of not really caring.

Don't go away mad, just go away.

Notan

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Steven J Sobol <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote:

>Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
>> "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage - you are
>>>excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
>>
>> That was uncalled for.
>
>No, it wasn't. Have you read KM's posts? All he wants to do is scream about
>how he's being screwed. If he was serious about being screwed he'd already have
>taken action against Verizon, including dropping them and going to another
>carrier.

I'm not objecting to your portrayal of him. I'm objecting to your
stereotypes about people who take lithium.



==
Jack Hamilton
jfh@acm.org

==
In the end, more than they wanted freedom, they wanted comfort and security.
And in the end, they lost it all - freedom, comfort and security.
Edward Gibbons

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

Well, for sure SOMEONE hasn't got a clue..... I wonder who it might be???

PC

"Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote in message
news:_14Fc.90692$904.5909@fe35.usenetserver.com...
| Hey Putz...I bet no one EVER on here posted a billing mistake in the
| customer's favor. How is that possible with so many customer's? O, I know.
| The billing system was designed to NEVER make a mistake IN the customer's
| favor. Most of you have missed my point and are only thinking of
yourselves
| and have no clue on what I've been saying the last couple months. I'm even
| talking like white trailer-trash teenager and still no one can understand
| me.
|
|
| "Steven J Sobol" <sjsobol@JustThe.net> wrote in message
| news:r-GdncSlIYhHrHndRVn-hQ@lmi.net...
| > Jack Hamilton <jfh@acm.org> wrote:
| > > "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote:
| > >
| > >>Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage -
you
| are
| > >>excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
| > >
| > > That was uncalled for.
| >
| > No, it wasn't. Have you read KM's posts? All he wants to do is scream
| about
| > how he's being screwed. If he was serious about being screwed he'd
already
| have
| > taken action against Verizon, including dropping them and going to
another
| > carrier.
| >
| > I used to be a wage-slave flunkie working at a gas station owned by one
| > of the big oil companies (now I'm a self-employed, slightly better-paid
| > flunkie
| >
| > I recall an experience with a customer who was a cantankerous jerk
| (though,
| > in his defense, he was also an extremely loyal, regular customer).
| >
| > At the time, we were selling a small bottle of V8 for 89 cents and
tomato
| > juice (the same size) for 99 cents. Or it may be the other way around;
the
| > important thing is that one was 89 cents and the other one was 99.
| >
| > So the customer pumps his gas, and walks in and picks out the 89-cent
| > product and brings it to the counter, but I mistakenly think it's the
| 99-cent
| > product. HOWEVER, I catch myself before I ring it up and, thinking out
| loud,
| > I say, "Oops, this isn't 99, it's 89."
| >
| > This, of course, prompts the customer to tell me I'm trying to cheat
him.
| >
| > Duh, if I was trying to cheat him I'd just have rung it up at 89 and
kept
| > the dime. Besides, if I was going to risk my lousy little minimum-wage
job
| > by screwing over a customer, I'd have attempted to screw over a customer
| > for a lot more than a dime. A dime is not worth the trouble.
| >
| > Point being - there *are* people who will take a situation and twist it
| around
| > to portray it in the worst light possible. KM seems to be one of those
| people.
| > OTOH, maybe he's just an idiot troll.
| >
| > --
| > JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
| > Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) /
| sjsobol@JustThe.net
| > PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
| > Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three
kids.
|
|
|

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

I didn't write the paragraph you're commenting on.....

FWIW, Verizon's policy is clear, simple, direct, to the point and easily
understood. There are those, however, who just must make a big deal out of
nothing......

PC

"Tom" <tom@cox.net> wrote in message news:A4YEc.7$jp1.5@lakeread04...
| Proconsul wrote:
|
|
| > | > Actually it looks to me like the dealer made the mistake. (There
are
| > | > Verizon stores all over New Jersey. Why didn't you go to one of
them?)
| > | > But mistakes happen, and you'll live longer if you don't get so
| > | > aggravated about them. I'm sure they'll fix the problem.
|
|
| It is not a mistake, it is Verizon policy. Apparently the customer
| service rep. is supposed to mention the "pro-rating" upfront, but if
| they don't and you don't catch it, too bad. The policy was NOT
| mentioned to me.
|
| Picture this - I have an 800 minute plan and exactly midway through the
| month I decide to add a line with a family share plan. If I had used
| 600 minutes at this point leaving me with 200 minutes left to use over
| the balance of the month, I would have, under Verizon's pro-rated
| method, used 200 minutes more than I am allotted under their pro-rating.
| Despite the fact that I have 800 minutes to use at any time during my
| monthly period, Verizon will penalize me by charging me for using 200
| minutes in overage, in my case 200 X $.45 minute = $90, instead of
| allowing me to use the actual 400 minutes that I had not used. In other
| words, Verizon says I should have only used 400 minutes halfway through
| the month, despite the fact that it is normally my choice when and how I
| use the minutes.
|
| I do not consider Verizon's pro-rating policy to be customer friendly at
| all. I also object to spending my time trying to have money returned
| that should have never been taken from me in the first place. I do
| agree that it is better to be "nice," since this is a policy of Verizon
| management, not the csr. Tom

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Giambi" <byegiambi2WINNER@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2kjv54F36u8sU1@uni-berlin.de...
| "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.org> wrote in message
| news:R8VEc.6145$151.1579@fed1read02...
| > Perhaps you should have your therapist adjust your lithium dosage - you
| are
| > excessively "enraged" over what is, in reality, a trifle....
|
| Not so far from the truth. If you're wondering where our friend Killer
| suddenly came from about a month ago (and why he might have some spare
time
| on his hands, along with the shitty attitude), here's a clue:
|
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl [...] omcast.com

I'm not surprised - his problem as reported in that link is serious. I hope
things work out for him in that regard.....

PC

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

C C wrote:
> That activation fee mistake happened to me, too. I got my phone from
> a VZW store. I am not sure if the salesdroid explained to me on a
> expected partial billing.

doh!

> Random? I signed up last June 3. My first bill showed I had a
> partial from June 3 to June 11. My billing cycle is every 12th of
> the month.
>
> Why can't Verizon just start the billing cycle on the day of the
> signing of the contract???

Sounds like a basis for your next class action.
"VZW *always* starts your billing cycle a week or less after you
sign up knowing that you will be using a lot of minutes immediately
trying out your new phone and service which will result in proration
overage charges resulting from their intentionally uncomprehensible
prorating calculation." yea... that's the ticket.

-Quick

>
> "Quick" <dhorwitz@NOSPAMcisco.com> wrote in message
> news:1088643865.996749@sj-nntpcache-3...
>> Did they sign up at a VZW store or an agent?
>> The stores are usually very thorough to point out the
>> prorating to a billing cycle. Let me guess -- billing
>> cycle is the 25th of each month? Not very random.
>>
>> This is so commonly misunderstood that customer
>> service usually has the overage charges refunded before
>> you finish explaining what happened. Same will apply
>> if you change plans in the middle of a billing cycle but
>> they are not so apt to give you the auto refund then.
>>
>> Your idea of not counting holidays is interesting.
>> Plans are monthly. Contracts are for years. When
>> prorating they figure by the month. Unused minutes
>> do not carry over from month to month and not all
>> months have holidays in them. How would you
>> resolve that?
>>
>> The activation fee was probably the mistake of the
>> sales person entering the contracts.
>>
>> Here is a trick it sounds like you missed:
>> Try calling customer service and explain what
>> happened and ask what they can do for you.
>>
>> -Quick
>>
>> QuienEs wrote:
>>> Two of my relatives just signed up for Verizon Wireless' "America's
>>> Choice" plan.
>>>
>>> On the surface it sounds good, 400 shared peak time minutes
>>> per-month, unlimited nights and weekends usage, no long distance
>>> charges and additional benefits.
>>>
>>> They have been with Verizon Wireless for about 10 days and the 1st
>>> bill came, with some surprises:
>>>
>>> 1/ TRICK
>>>
>>> Their "month" did not start when the phones were activated,
>>> SURPRISE ! -- it started 4 days later. We learned that your
>>> "month" can start anytime - the dealer told us today it is sort of
>>> random, 3-days after you sign up, or 10 days or 15 days.
>>>
>>> The problem for them was that the first 3 days were treated as a
>>> pro-rated partial month. They got screwed because they used their
>>> beautiful new cell phones a lot those 1st 3 days thinking they had
>>> 400 peak minutes to spread over 30 or 31 days, but Verizon Wireless
>>> pro-rated the 3 days at 13 peak minutes each which, in their newbie
>>> enthusiasm, they had exceeded - resulting in a 3-day [ at 45-cents
>>> per minute ] charge of around $7 for "excess minutes".
>>>
>>> 2/ SCAM [ adding insult to injury ]
>>>
>>> The scam is the use of 13 minutes per day for the pro-rated period.
>>> Apparently they get that figure by dividing 4800 minutes per year by
>>> 365 = 13.15 minutes per day.
>>>
>>> The accurate number should take into account that weekends are free.
>>> 2x52 = 104 free days. 365-104 = 261 days to which peak minutes
>>> apply. 4800/261 = 18.39 minutes allowance per peak day.
>>>
>>> 3/ $40 billing computer "mistake"
>>>
>>> They advertise: "One- or Two-year agreement required per line. $35
>>> activation fee per line on one-year agreements, and $15 activation
>>> fee per line on two-year agreements."
>>>
>>> My relatives signed up for 2-years, confirmed by Verizon's billing
>>> department and the dealer today. But the bill shows two $35
>>> activation fees, not two $15 activation fees. One can assume that
>>> their billing computer makes this "mistake" for everyone.
>>>
>>> Comments welcome, especially about any tricks we may ahve missed.
>>>
>>> QE in NJ

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

On Thu, 01 Jul 2004 13:45:02 -0400, Tom <tom@cox.net> wrote:

>Proconsul wrote:
>
>> | > Actually it looks to me like the dealer made the mistake. (There are
>> | > Verizon stores all over New Jersey. Why didn't you go to one of them?)
>> | > But mistakes happen, and you'll live longer if you don't get so
>> | > aggravated about them. I'm sure they'll fix the problem.
>
>It is not a mistake, it is Verizon policy. Apparently the customer
>service rep. is supposed to mention the "pro-rating" upfront, but if
>they don't and you don't catch it, too bad. The policy was NOT
>mentioned to me.

The "mistake" I was referring to was the apparent failure of the agent to
adequately describe the pro-rating of minutes during the initial billing
period.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.verizon (More info?)

"Killer Madness" <killermo@cnet.com> wrote in
news:KDUEc.3347$YK5.1122@fe32.usenetserver.com:

> Thank you Tom. And of course we'll come to expect people saying, "did
> you read the fine print", or, "did you ask those questions before
> signing". I bet half the people in this group has been robbed or has
> had money taken from them every month without even knowing about it.
> Not a lot of money to notice right away...but like I said before. When
> you have billing *mistakes* happen to hundred of thousands of people,
> your going to get a lot of money out of it.
>

Conversely, I won the lottery a few years ago when a credit for over $400
showed up on my Verizon Wireless bill! I sat tight, figuring the idiots
running the company would notice their error and kept putting money into
the wireless pot to pay the bill after the error was discovered.

The same idiots you've dealt with never noticed or wouldn't admit they'd
made a mistake of this proportion to their managers, putting their asses on
the block. So, I got a "Good Customer Bonus" for a few months before my
credit ran out....to my delight.....(c;

Does anyone but me ALWAYS overpay and recurring bill by some odd amount
like 73 cents? I always do. If the bill is for $42, I send them a check
for $42.73 and always maintain that little credit to my account. You just
KNOW whatever company has these few dollars on that stupid computer have
GOTTA screw up every so many billings......ad nauseum. I used to play this
game with Bell$not landline for 30 years.....worked great!

Larry
try it....great fun.