Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

I live in a large apartment building. I have a PC laptop with a
wireless card. Some weeks ago, I noticed that I was connected to the
Internet via wireless signals I was picking up from one or more
neighbors. So I then had an Airport card (not Extreme) installed in
our iMac, but it doesn't work. The little radar-looking icon shows a
signal and when you click it, it shows "Verizon Wi-Fi," but the
computer will not connect to the Internet. Clicking on the Airport
icons in Utilities, I got a message that the utility had "unexpectedly
quit."

1. What are the ethics of piggybacking? Should I try to find out
whose signal I'm getting? If so, how? And what if, as I suspect, I am
getting signals from more than one neighbor?

2. Why doesn't the Airport card work? How can I get it to work?

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

In article <6fc27add.0406161233.68dee985@posting.google.com>,
jl2109@yahoo.com (Jay) wrote:

> I live in a large apartment building. I have a PC laptop with a
> wireless card. Some weeks ago, I noticed that I was connected to the
> Internet via wireless signals I was picking up from one or more
> neighbors. So I then had an Airport card (not Extreme) installed in
> our iMac, but it doesn't work. The little radar-looking icon shows a
> signal and when you click it, it shows "Verizon Wi-Fi," but the
> computer will not connect to the Internet. Clicking on the Airport
> icons in Utilities, I got a message that the utility had "unexpectedly
> quit."
>
> 1. What are the ethics of piggybacking? Should I try to find out
> whose signal I'm getting? If so, how? And what if, as I suspect, I am
> getting signals from more than one neighbor?

technically, the ISP has not granted you or your neighbor permission to
share their connection with you. At the very minimum you should get
permission from your neighbor.

A utility such as MacStumbler or APGrapher or KisMac
(http://versiontracker.com/macosx) if you had a Mac laptop. I would
suggest you find the equivalent type of signal strength program for your
PC and then use it to find your neighbor's door with the strongest
signal and knock. Assuming you have nice neighbors :-)

> 2. Why doesn't the Airport card work? How can I get it to work?

Get MacStumbler mentioned above. It gives a little additional
information about the WiFi access point. Not much, but there is always
a chance it will give a clue.

If you pull down the Airport signal strength menu item, you can use it
to open the "Internet Connect" utility (Applications -> Internet
Connect). Try to make an Airport connection using Internet Connect. It
might show you more information. If the connection fails, maybe it will
give your more information to work with.

Bob Harris

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

"Jay" <jl2109@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6fc27add.0406161233.68dee985@posting.google.com...
> I live in a large apartment building. I have a PC laptop with a
> wireless card. Some weeks ago, I noticed that I was connected to the
> Internet via wireless signals I was picking up from one or more
> neighbors. So I then had an Airport card (not Extreme) installed in
> our iMac, but it doesn't work. The little radar-looking icon shows a
> signal and when you click it, it shows "Verizon Wi-Fi," but the
> computer will not connect to the Internet. Clicking on the Airport
> icons in Utilities, I got a message that the utility had "unexpectedly
> quit."
>
> 1. What are the ethics of piggybacking? Should I try to find out
> whose signal I'm getting? If so, how? And what if, as I suspect, I am
> getting signals from more than one neighbor?
>

If you need to ask about the ethics, then you are not interested in the
answer.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Entity Jay spoke thus:

> 1. What are the ethics of piggybacking?

I have an open access point in a dense neighborhood. I don't care who uses
the service as long as it's used not abused.


-- Gnarlie
http://www.Gnarlodious.com/

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Gnarlodious <gnarlodiousNULL@VOID.invalid.yahoo.com> wrote in
news:BCF65ECB.4D9E1%gnarlodiousNULL@VOID.invalid.yahoo.com:

> Entity Jay spoke thus:
>
>> 1. What are the ethics of piggybacking?
>
> I have an open access point in a dense neighborhood. I don't care who
> uses the service as long as it's used not abused.


Does Earthlink allow you to run an open AP off your connection? I wish my
ISP would let me do that.


--
Lucas Tam (REMOVEnntp@rogers.com)
Please delete "REMOVE" from the e-mail address when replying.
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/coolspot18/

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Lucas Tam <REMOVEnntp@rogers.com> wrote:

> Does Earthlink allow you to run an open AP off your connection?

"You and members of your household or business, if you have purchased a
business account, are the only authorized users of your EarthLink
account and must comply with this Agreement."
<http://www.earthlink.net/about/policies/dial/>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

In article <BCF68B91.4D9C4%gnarlodiousNULL@VOID.invalid.yahoo.com>,
Gnarlodious <gnarlodiousNULL@VOID.invalid.yahoo.com> wrote:

> > I wish my ISP would let me do that.
> How are they going to know?

same way rental car companies know if you drove the car out of state or
it is driven by someone not listed on the contract. unless something
goes wrong (and there is no gps tracker installed), they won't know.

same with an isp - if usage patterns are 'normal' and nothing bad
happens, they won't know and likely not care.

however, if someone uses your account for illicit purposes or bandwidth
demands are significantly higher than normal then they might notice.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Jay <jl2109@yahoo.com> wrote:

> 1. What are the ethics of piggybacking?

You're getting commercial service without paying for it. What do you
suppose the ethics of that are?

--
Mike Rosenberg
<http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida
<http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
Toyota Prius fans: Check out alt.autos.toyota.prius

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid (Mike Rosenberg) wrote in
news:1gfilcr.1bqmjwx481a2yN%mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid:

> Jay <jl2109@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> 1. What are the ethics of piggybacking?
>
> You're getting commercial service without paying for it. What do you
> suppose the ethics of that are?

That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that he's merely accessing
the airwaves above his own property. This is why there are no clear laws
regarding the matter. Yet. Electric companies got it arranged so you
can't have a big copper coil taking electricity from the wires
above/nearby...but then again that could be considered an 'easement'. I
doubt one could get an easement for a radio signal.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Howard <stile99@email.com.> wrote:

> That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that he's merely
> accessing the airwaves above his own property.

True, but looking at it from the ISP's vantage point, they're selling
their service to one household, and that household is then broadcasting
it.

--
Mike Rosenberg
<http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida
<http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
Toyota Prius fans: Check out alt.autos.toyota.prius

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid (Mike Rosenberg) wrote in
news:1gfjgtn.1x2ma0t1mnwk7mN%mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid:

> Howard <stile99@email.com.> wrote:
>
>> That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that he's merely
>> accessing the airwaves above his own property.
>
> True, but looking at it from the ISP's vantage point, they're selling
> their service to one household, and that household is then broadcasting
> it.

However, at that point it becomes an issue between the ISP and the customer
who is broadcasting it unsecurely. The ISP would have far far more luck
pursuing the customer than the neighbor.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

In article <Xns950C887D6EB8stile@129.250.170.82>,
Howard <stile99@email.com.> wrote:

> mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid (Mike Rosenberg) wrote in
> news:1gfjgtn.1x2ma0t1mnwk7mN%mike@POSTTOGROUP.invalid:
>
> > Howard <stile99@email.com.> wrote:
> >
> >> That's one way of looking at it. Another way is that he's merely
> >> accessing the airwaves above his own property.
> >
> > True, but looking at it from the ISP's vantage point, they're selling
> > their service to one household, and that household is then broadcasting
> > it.
>
> However, at that point it becomes an issue between the ISP and the customer
> who is broadcasting it unsecurely. The ISP would have far far more luck
> pursuing the customer than the neighbor.

I wonder if this might be treated by the law analogously to a neighbor
making an illegal cable TV hookup, by splicing into the neighbor's cable
without them knowing about it. Most cable modem TOS's say that you
can't redistribute the service to others, but do they say that you have
to take measures to *prevent* others from using the service without your
knowledge or consent?

--
Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me ***

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Howard <stile99@email.com.> wrote:

> However, at that point it becomes an issue between the ISP and the
> customer who is broadcasting it unsecurely. The ISP would have far far
> more luck pursuing the customer than the neighbor.

That's true. This is quite different than, say, illegally receiving
satellite signals, where you have to buy equipment to do so. And, of
course, in most cases, the people broadcasting WiFi signals to the
immediate neighborhood are unaware they're doing that. In fact, I'm
sure many of them would be quite horrified to know it's happening.

And yet, I think that someone who knows he's latching onto his
neighbor's signal should also know it's wrong.

--
Mike Rosenberg
<http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida
<http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart
Toyota Prius fans: Check out alt.autos.toyota.prius

Archived from groups: comp.sys.mac.comm,alt.internet.wireless (More info?)

Taking a moment's reflection, Barry Margolin mused:
|
| I wonder if this might be treated by the law analogously to a neighbor
| making an illegal cable TV hookup, by splicing into the neighbor's cable
| without them knowing about it.

To fit here, it would be more like a neighbour splicing his cable TV
line, and running an outlet to your apartment (knowingly or unknowingly).
Even still, it is *your* choice on whether you hook it up or not.