Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I am worried that it is. What does everyone think?

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 00:35:05 GMT, Bas wrote:

>I am worried that it is. What does everyone think?
>
I have been away from this group for awhile. I switched to the dark
side, you know. Last week, I saw this beautiful new high-end Palm
device, so I checked. Then I saw it is running PalmOS 5.4. What the
heck is going on here? Will there *ever* be a PalmOS 6 device?

I'm glad I switched.

--
"I'd far rather be happy than right any day."
- Slartibartfast

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Bruno wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 00:35:05 GMT, Bas wrote:
>
>>I am worried that it is. What does everyone think?
>>
> I have been away from this group for awhile. I switched to the dark
> side, you know. Last week, I saw this beautiful new high-end Palm
> device, so I checked. Then I saw it is running PalmOS 5.4. What the
> heck is going on here? Will there *ever* be a PalmOS 6 device?
>
> I'm glad I switched.

To me, all that is practically needed from a PDA is a small
schedule/alarm/MP3 player. The rest are toys because I use desktops
machines for everything unless I am out on the street.

Pocket PC's are heavy, large, and slow. In that sense, they can never
improve my life. I cannot watch films while I walk. I don't desire to
either. What's more, if you use one of the powerful operating systems, you
will need a device that's fully compatible, supported, and open. Speaking
of which, OS 6 might be conceded, I think, because of the switch to UNIX.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat 11 Jun 2005 07:29:42p, Bruno, wrote:

> I have been away from this group for awhile. I switched to the dark
> side, you know. Last week, I saw this beautiful new high-end Palm
> device, so I checked. Then I saw it is running PalmOS 5.4. What the
> heck is going on here? Will there *ever* be a PalmOS 6 device?

I'm trying to think what I'm "missing" by using my Palm 4.x and 3.5.x
devices. There's like, oh... five billion programs for them. I think Palm
kicked Windows CE ass because they offered an OS that didn't try to
include everything *plus* the kitchen sink. Less packed in the PDA, less
to go wrong. M$ Mobile isn't winning on merit -- it's catching up because
of corporate pack-ins (and probably under-the-table payoffs).

But that said, not everyone uses their PDAs for the same things. Perhaps
some folks want them to include "kitchen sinks." My Treo 300 does
everything I want (except for not using a Stowaway Keyboard). I think
there are many people who just want a simple PDA -- that's why so many
series IIIs and Vs continue to sell on eBay.

--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"RonB" <ronbNOSPAM@bliz.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9672D7DAC820Fezboard1lycoscom@204.153.244.170...
> On Sat 11 Jun 2005 07:29:42p, Bruno, wrote:
>
> > I have been away from this group for awhile. I switched to the dark
> > side, you know. Last week, I saw this beautiful new high-end Palm
> > device, so I checked. Then I saw it is running PalmOS 5.4. What the
> > heck is going on here? Will there *ever* be a PalmOS 6 device?
>
> I'm trying to think what I'm "missing" by using my Palm 4.x and 3.5.x
> devices. There's like, oh... five billion programs for them. I think Palm
> kicked Windows CE ass because they offered an OS that didn't try to
> include everything *plus* the kitchen sink. Less packed in the PDA, less
> to go wrong. M$ Mobile isn't winning on merit -- it's catching up because
> of corporate pack-ins (and probably under-the-table payoffs).

Microsoft charges the developers to create apps for Windows Mobile (CE,
Pocket PC... whatever you want to call it) devices. That's the main reason
for the high price of apps for the Windows Mobile platform and also the main
reason there are not many apps out there for it either. The last time I
stopped by palmone.com and checked there were over 17,000 apps and a lot of
them are free, WIndows Mobile on the other hand had about 3,000 and very few
were free, if they worked at all since the apps are processor specific and
there are a lot of different processors they used in those devices. I'm sure
the count on Plam apps has greatly increased since then, it's been a while.

>
> But that said, not everyone uses their PDAs for the same things. Perhaps
> some folks want them to include "kitchen sinks." My Treo 300 does
> everything I want (except for not using a Stowaway Keyboard). I think
> there are many people who just want a simple PDA -- that's why so many
> series IIIs and Vs continue to sell on eBay.
>
> --
> RonB
> "There's a story there...somewhere"

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Palm is still alive and kicking. Check out the latest Palm LiveDrive for
update on the latest Palm development.

"Bas" <clahaye@stx.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ZqLqe.39671$j51.36639@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> I am worried that it is. What does everyone think?
>
>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat 11 Jun 2005 09:56:57p, Scooterflex, wrote:

> Microsoft charges the developers to create apps for Windows Mobile
> (CE, Pocket PC... whatever you want to call it) devices. That's the
> main reason for the high price of apps for the Windows Mobile
> platform and also the main reason there are not many apps out there
> for it either. The last time I stopped by palmone.com and checked
> there were over 17,000 apps and a lot of them are free, WIndows
> Mobile on the other hand had about 3,000 and very few were free, if
> they worked at all since the apps are processor specific and there
> are a lot of different processors they used in those devices. I'm
> sure the count on Plam apps has greatly increased since then, it's
> been a while.

Thanks. I didn't know about much of this. Good information.


--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Scooterflex wrote:
>
> Microsoft charges the developers to create apps for Windows Mobile
> (CE, Pocket PC... whatever you want to call it) devices. That's the
> main reason for the high price of apps for the Windows Mobile
> platform and also the main reason there are not many apps out there
> for it either.

http://www.freewareppc.com/ being a fake?


> The last time I stopped by palmone.com and checked
> there were over 17,000 apps and a lot of them are free, WIndows
> Mobile on the other hand had about 3,000 and very few were free, if
> they worked at all since the apps are processor specific and there
> are a lot of different processors they used in those devices. I'm
> sure the count on Plam apps has greatly increased since then, it's
> been a while.

I rather got the impression that the 'Plam app count increase' is
pretty much 'on hold' compared to the gone OS-3/-4 days.


Gruß
Uwe

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Roy Schestowitz wrote:
> ...
> Pocket PC's are heavy, large, and slow. ...

Apart from smartphones Palm is desperately trying do outdo them as well as
Pocket PC manufacturers catched on.
Or in Palm terms:
Today Pocket PCs are easily III-sized and Palm doesn't do V-size anymore.


Gruß
Uwe

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Scooterflex wrote:

> "RonB" <ronbNOSPAM@bliz.org> wrote in message
> news:Xns9672D7DAC820Fezboard1lycoscom@204.153.244.170...
>> On Sat 11 Jun 2005 07:29:42p, Bruno, wrote:
>>
>> > I have been away from this group for awhile. I switched to the dark
>> > side, you know. Last week, I saw this beautiful new high-end Palm
>> > device, so I checked. Then I saw it is running PalmOS 5.4. What the
>> > heck is going on here? Will there *ever* be a PalmOS 6 device?
>>
>> I'm trying to think what I'm "missing" by using my Palm 4.x and 3.5.x
>> devices. There's like, oh... five billion programs for them. I think Palm
>> kicked Windows CE ass because they offered an OS that didn't try to
>> include everything *plus* the kitchen sink. Less packed in the PDA, less
>> to go wrong. M$ Mobile isn't winning on merit -- it's catching up because
>> of corporate pack-ins (and probably under-the-table payoffs).
>
> Microsoft charges the developers to create apps for Windows Mobile (CE,
> Pocket PC... whatever you want to call it) devices. That's the main reason
> for the high price of apps for the Windows Mobile platform and also the
> main reason there are not many apps out there for it either. The last time
> I stopped by palmone.com and checked there were over 17,000 apps and a lot
> of them are free, WIndows Mobile on the other hand had about 3,000 and
> very few were free, if they worked at all since the apps are processor
> specific and there are a lot of different processors they used in those
> devices. I'm sure the count on Plam apps has greatly increased since then,
> it's been a while.
>
>>
>> But that said, not everyone uses their PDAs for the same things. Perhaps
>> some folks want them to include "kitchen sinks." My Treo 300 does
>> everything I want (except for not using a Stowaway Keyboard). I think
>> there are many people who just want a simple PDA -- that's why so many
>> series IIIs and Vs continue to sell on eBay.

Opting for Pocket PC rather than Palm is like opting for Windows rather than
UNIX, but there are a few differences:

- Palm is very simple to use
- Palm is reliable

This, of course, isn't quite true since distros like Ubuntu and (maybe)
Fedora emerged.

There are plenty of programs for *NIX out there and they are predominantly
free and the development is open, flexible and negotiable.

Oh, and guess what??? Palm are switching to UNIX.

Roy

--
Roy S. Schestowitz
http://Schestowitz.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

You're welcome.

"RonB" <ronbNOSPAM@bliz.org> wrote in message
news:Xns9672F2CEDCD10ezboard1lycoscom@204.153.244.170...
> On Sat 11 Jun 2005 09:56:57p, Scooterflex, wrote:
>
> > Microsoft charges the developers to create apps for Windows Mobile
> > (CE, Pocket PC... whatever you want to call it) devices. That's the
> > main reason for the high price of apps for the Windows Mobile
> > platform and also the main reason there are not many apps out there
> > for it either. The last time I stopped by palmone.com and checked
> > there were over 17,000 apps and a lot of them are free, WIndows
> > Mobile on the other hand had about 3,000 and very few were free, if
> > they worked at all since the apps are processor specific and there
> > are a lot of different processors they used in those devices. I'm
> > sure the count on Plam apps has greatly increased since then, it's
> > been a while.
>
> Thanks. I didn't know about much of this. Good information.
>
>
> --
> RonB
> "There's a story there...somewhere"

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

If you read in more detail you'll see that I admit my information is
outdated. Also, there are ways around EULAs and although I'm not a
programmer by any standards I do know there are a lot of languages out there
and most are cross platform.

"U. Lippke" <shorttext@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:42abd5c0$0$308$4d4ebb8e@read.news.de.uu.net...
> Scooterflex wrote:
> >
> > Microsoft charges the developers to create apps for Windows Mobile
> > (CE, Pocket PC... whatever you want to call it) devices. That's the
> > main reason for the high price of apps for the Windows Mobile
> > platform and also the main reason there are not many apps out there
> > for it either.
>
> http://www.freewareppc.com/ being a fake?
>
>
> > The last time I stopped by palmone.com and checked
> > there were over 17,000 apps and a lot of them are free, WIndows
> > Mobile on the other hand had about 3,000 and very few were free, if
> > they worked at all since the apps are processor specific and there
> > are a lot of different processors they used in those devices. I'm
> > sure the count on Plam apps has greatly increased since then, it's
> > been a while.
>
> I rather got the impression that the 'Plam app count increase' is
> pretty much 'on hold' compared to the gone OS-3/-4 days.
>
>
> Gruß
> Uwe
>
>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"U. Lippke" <shorttext@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:42abd84b$0$300$4d4ebb8e@read.news.de.uu.net...
> Roy Schestowitz wrote:
> > ...
> > Pocket PC's are heavy, large, and slow. ...
>
> Apart from smartphones Palm is desperately trying do outdo

And succeeded... you failed to mention that. Who is the biggest Pocket PC
manufacturer? I think it would be HP/Compaq and then maybe Dell. Who else? I
have no idea and nor do I care. They still hold about 10% or the market
share... there must be a reason for that. I don't know one person that has
or wants one although I know a lot of people with Palms and even more who
want them. There must be a reason for that too.

them as well as
> Pocket PC manufacturers catched on.
> Or in Palm terms:
> Today Pocket PCs are easily III-sized and Palm doesn't do V-size anymore.
>
>
> Gruß
> Uwe
>
>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Bas wrote:
> I am worried that it is. What does everyone think?

OS 4 is still alive and kicking on my PDA ;-)

Being spoiled by reading discussions at Palminfocenter.com (The sometimes
insulting tone there one might prefer to ignore or take as a grain of salt.
IMHO it's well worth it...) I would say PalmOS is struggling.
The outcome depends on the announced Palm-Linux, which is something like
PalmOS building on a Linux based kernel.
Nothing much to do with personal Linux experience on desktops or servers,
though.
Applications being developed for PalmOS, drivers and the like already around
or ready to pick-up ;-).
"Another astounding, versatile future of what Palm users will be able to
do."

Hopefully this will work.
But, frankly, IMO Palm has no credit delivering announced stuff.
But then, it's all about being lucky and improving based on experience.
Palm might need both again...


Gruß
Uwe

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Cross platforming is a nice concept. Everyone wins because it increases the
company's customer base and the customers benefit from more and better
written software. One example is Linux but with apps like Firefox,
personally I don't like it, I still use IE. On my portable devices I use
Palm OS. I have a Tungsten C and a Samsung i500 Smartphone. Although I've
never used a MAC with the Unix version on it I've heard some pretty bad
things about it. I don't use Macs and never will so it doens't effect me at
all. I've found Macs to be for people who don't like to fiddle with
things... almost like it was made for a simplton and I like to have the free
control to have things work the way I want to. From my very limited
experience on a Mac, you can't do that.
I agree though that Palms are very stable and reliable. My old Jornada was
unstable and battery life was very limited. The way it handled memory
management was really bad too.

"Roy Schestowitz" <newsgroups@schestowitz.com> wrote in message
news8gm6e$1k3p$1@godfrey.mcc.ac.uk...
> Scooterflex wrote:
>
> > "RonB" <ronbNOSPAM@bliz.org> wrote in message
> > news:Xns9672D7DAC820Fezboard1lycoscom@204.153.244.170...
> >> On Sat 11 Jun 2005 07:29:42p, Bruno, wrote:
> >>
> >> > I have been away from this group for awhile. I switched to the dark
> >> > side, you know. Last week, I saw this beautiful new high-end Palm
> >> > device, so I checked. Then I saw it is running PalmOS 5.4. What the
> >> > heck is going on here? Will there *ever* be a PalmOS 6 device?
> >>
> >> I'm trying to think what I'm "missing" by using my Palm 4.x and 3.5.x
> >> devices. There's like, oh... five billion programs for them. I think
Palm
> >> kicked Windows CE ass because they offered an OS that didn't try to
> >> include everything *plus* the kitchen sink. Less packed in the PDA,
less
> >> to go wrong. M$ Mobile isn't winning on merit -- it's catching up
because
> >> of corporate pack-ins (and probably under-the-table payoffs).
> >
> > Microsoft charges the developers to create apps for Windows Mobile (CE,
> > Pocket PC... whatever you want to call it) devices. That's the main
reason
> > for the high price of apps for the Windows Mobile platform and also the
> > main reason there are not many apps out there for it either. The last
time
> > I stopped by palmone.com and checked there were over 17,000 apps and a
lot
> > of them are free, WIndows Mobile on the other hand had about 3,000 and
> > very few were free, if they worked at all since the apps are processor
> > specific and there are a lot of different processors they used in those
> > devices. I'm sure the count on Plam apps has greatly increased since
then,
> > it's been a while.
> >
> >>
> >> But that said, not everyone uses their PDAs for the same things.
Perhaps
> >> some folks want them to include "kitchen sinks." My Treo 300 does
> >> everything I want (except for not using a Stowaway Keyboard). I think
> >> there are many people who just want a simple PDA -- that's why so many
> >> series IIIs and Vs continue to sell on eBay.
>
> Opting for Pocket PC rather than Palm is like opting for Windows rather
than
> UNIX, but there are a few differences:
>
> - Palm is very simple to use
> - Palm is reliable
>
> This, of course, isn't quite true since distros like Ubuntu and (maybe)
> Fedora emerged.
>
> There are plenty of programs for *NIX out there and they are predominantly
> free and the development is open, flexible and negotiable.
>
> Oh, and guess what??? Palm are switching to UNIX.
>
> Roy
>
> --
> Roy S. Schestowitz
> http://Schestowitz.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sun 12 Jun 2005 12:26:48a, U. Lippke, wrote:

> I rather got the impression that the 'Plam app count increase' is
> pretty much 'on hold' compared to the gone OS-3/-4 days.

Yeah, but is it "on hold" at 17,000 to 3,000? Still a pretty significant
lead, if so. That would be 85% to 15%.

What I like about the Palm stuff that I download is that it works and
it's small. What I know about Windows for the Desktop (and suspect for
Windows CE/PPC/Mobile) is that it often crashes the system when installed
and it is bloated -- requiring much more storage than its Palm
counterpart. It also requires much more advanced hardware, while
simultaneously being slower.

But it's worse than that -- or was in the CE days. Windows CE was too
"big" and bulky for a PDA -- and they never got it through their heads at
M$ that they needed to cut back and redesign the *PDA* OS from the ground
up. The Palm OS (and the Psion OS for that matter) were designed for PDAs
from the beginning. Both were "clean" and compact. (The Palm OS more so
than the Psion, but I don't think anyone has had a better flat database
than what came built into the Psions.)

That said, I'm a bit leery of a Linux Palm. I hope they keep producing a
few Palm OS machines. I've really gotten to like the idea behind the Palm
OS.

--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sun 12 Jun 2005 12:53:56a, Roy Schestowitz, wrote:

> Opting for Pocket PC rather than Palm is like opting for Windows
> rather than UNIX, but there are a few differences:
>
> - Palm is very simple to use
> - Palm is reliable

And Palm does the job I want done without the burden of a bloated OS with
features that are almost useless on a PDA.

How many times have I read of folks coming back to Palm from PPC because
simple things like alarms don't work on the PPC machines (no surprise,
it's "working" on M$) -- and I'm always hearing that the Windows
CE/PPC/Mobile machines are too slow. I think "clunky" seems to be
adjective that sums up the platform.

If M$ has overcome this problem -- and they probably have to a certain
degree -- it's probably because of the advanced (and expensive) hardware
now available. This is the same way they got their clunky OS to work (as
well as it does) on the desktop -- by brute force, using a ton of memory
and very fast CPUs to achieve usability.

And, again, that's why I like the Palm OS. Simple, compact, to the point.
(Speaking for v3.5 to 4.1 -- never used the 5.x Palm OS.)

--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"U. Lippke" <shorttext@gmx.net> wrote:

>I would say PalmOS is struggling.

Is it the OS or the hardware that's struggling? It's hard to sell an OS if the
hardware's not there.

I couldn't find a LifeDrive demo anywhere in my area. I checked CompUSA,
CircuitCity, BestBuy, OfficeMax, and Staples. CompUSA at least had them in
stock, but no one else did. I was hot to trot with my credit card primed but no
demo. That may have cost them a sale because now I've cooled a bit after reading
about the warts. I'm probably not the only one...

And talking about Palm sales, my local Target store (where I bought an m100,
m125, TungE, and a Zire71) now stocks *no* Palms at all.

All these stores use to have a decent complement of Palms. No longer. And that's
not a good sign...