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Just read the interesting review here:

http://www.pocketfactory.com/archi [...] mone_3.php

So the advantages are WiFi and more internal memory.

But to get that it seems that you also get a bloated (big and heavy), warm to
the touch, $100 more expensive PDA that takes several seconds to load apps. Is
this really progress?

And I haven't seen anything about battery life yet...

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AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in
news:tbrm819859i5h7mkgj1h59640gvv145eov@4ax.com:

> And I haven't seen anything about battery life yet...
>
>

Please post if you run into some tests

-S-

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Scott <lshugh@hotmail.com.nospam> wrote:

>Please post if you run into some [battery] tests

I found some battery tests here:

http://www.bargainpda.com/discussi [...] IC_ID=8987

Looks like 4+ hours max. Below is a poor cut/paste of what this site says about
the battery. Go to there to see it right and the rest of the very complete and
well done review. My take on the LD...Sad.
---------------------------
Battery

To support its power hungry microdrive and WiFi radio, the Lifedrive packs in a
1660 milliamp-hour battery. While relatively large compared to the 1100 mAh
battery in the T5, I would have liked to see an even larger capacity given the
extremely draining nature of a spinning hard disk. This is doubly important for
non-multimedia use.

Like an iPod, the Lifedrive buffers large chunks of multimedia files it's
playing into solid-state memory, thus running the drive less often and saving
battery life. However, frequent random access--caused either by someone with a
penchant for continually hitting the skip button on their playlist, or by
accessing small files like Word documents, business files, and databases--will
keep the drive spinning more often, and cause greater battery drain.

Playing music from the microdrive, screen set to automatic off, moderate
skipping, no wireless. 4 hours, 20 minutes

Moderate Use Test Screen brightness set to maximum, some use of drive
mode, some WiFi, some music. 3 hours, 37 minutes

WiFi Test
Screen brightness set to maximum, WiFi active, no deliberate use of microdrive.
2 hours, 50 minutes

Video Test Playing video from microdrive. No wireless was active. 1 hour,
44 minutes

Torture Test Nearly continuous use of the microdrive, along with maximum
brightness, Bluetooth, and WiFi. 1 hour, 13 minutes

The battery performance is not great under any of the tests, but with a
microdrive it's never going to be. You sacrifice a certain amount of battery
life for the storage capacity you get. Personally, I would much rather see the
Lifedrive with a removable battery to combat this kind of showing, but PalmOne
obviously didn't see a need.

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On Wed, 18 May 2005 20:52:46 +0000, AaronJ wrote:

> To support its power hungry microdrive and WiFi radio, the Lifedrive packs
> in a 1660 milliamp-hour battery. While relatively large compared to the
> 1100 mAh battery in the T5, I would have liked to see an even larger
> capacity given the extremely draining nature of a spinning hard disk. This
> is doubly important for non-multimedia use.

Drives spin down to conserve power, especially Microdrives.

Wifi isn't on at all times, so that also increases battery life.

Don't believe everything you read yet... let real experts test it.

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AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in
news:2ban81hpk5ec4vjqv9934o5g4cir6hm9uq@4ax.com:

>
>>Please post if you run into some [battery] tests
>
> I found some battery tests here:
>
> http://www.bargainpda.com/discussi [...] IC_ID=8987
>
> Looks like 4+ hours max. Below is a poor cut/paste of what this site
> says about the battery. Go to there to see it right and the rest of
> the very complete and well done review. My take on the LD...Sad.
>

Thank you kindly for the post. I think I share your sadness. Less storage
without the microdrive might be a better route. Really large SD cards are
coming along and that wouldn't be the power drain nor the bulk of how the
LifeDrive is reviewing.

-S-

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"Quaoar" <quaoar@tenthplanet.net> wrote:

>The power drain is a combination of the screen, wifi and bt radios, and
>the drive.

From what I'm reading the design doesn't seem worry much about hard drive
battery drain anyway. With flash as cheap as it is, wouldn't it have been better
to have say 128M (or more) of RAM to permanently hold most of the applications
and leave the HD mostly for data instead of having the hard drive feeding a
cache all the time? That would cut down on the juice heavy HD use and have the
added benefit of eliminating most of those reported operating delays.

>The estimated battery life is in keeping with the Dell Axim
>X50v with its 1100mah battery as well as other PPC devices.

And that is the sad part. Up to now there has been a sharp difference between
Palm and PPC. PPC has always been noted for bloat and delays.
Palm finally caught up...

>iPaq devices come with larger 2100mah batteries standard.

And those monster size batteries make a joke of the word "pocket" PC.

>The two Tungsten E... Palms that I tried never had battery life in
>excess of 3-4 hours in my use - one of the many reasons I returned both.

All of my color models were in the 4+ hour range: TE, Z71, and Z72. I use them
only because of the superior screens. But when I travel I still take the old
trusty AAA battery powered m125. No climbing under motel furniture to find a
socket for a wall wart and *if* I need refresh batteries (I generally get 2+
weeks use at 2 hours a day), they're found at any local convenience store.

>P1 should not have used a less than stellar battery in the LD unless
>they live in a cave with no contact with the real world.

I would have said to concentrate on the total hardware design to use *less
power* to be able to use a *smaller* battery and thus make a *smaller* and
*pocket friendly* PDA. Sometimes less is definitely more. Now give that device
decent battery life and that really would be progress. Maybe next year. No? Well
I can dream anyway...

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Not just no improvements, a lot of problems!

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Quaoar wrote:
> A 2000+ mah battery is the same capacity as a single newer NiMH AA cell
> for reference.

It is the same capacity if the voltages are the same. You could take
15 AA batteries and put them in series, and the system would still only
have a 2000 mAh capacity. However, if you wired them in parallel then
the system (composed of the same batteries in a different configuration)
would have a 30,000 mAh capacity.

The amp-hour rating of a battery is only half the picture. It's like
giving ratings of how many kg of cargo an elevator can carry up a
certain height. If you have two elevators that can both carry 900 kg
up to the top of the building they're in, they might seem comparable,
but what if I then tell you one elevator is in a 3-story building and
another is in a 10-story building?

Anyway, I don't know what kind of battery is in the LifeDrive, but
the lithium-ion battery in my cell phone is a 3.6V battery. If you
compare that with a NiMH, which is a 1.2V battery, then equal mAh
ratings don't mean batteries of equal capacity. If they both can
sustain their respective voltages at the same current for the same
period of time, then the 3.6V battery actually has triple the capacity.

> IMO the LifeDrive should not have been released without a unified,
> seamless file system. Copying files to/from the drive for execution is
> a thoughtless kludge that speaks volumes about PalmOne and PalmSource's
> futures and suggests that Cobalt is a figment of the imagination.

Cobalt is not a figment of the imagination. It's real software that
exists on a simulator that developers can download. It runs Palm OS
apps pretty well, just about as well as OS 5 devices I've tried. It
is true that Cobalt devices are still nonexistant, but that's a
different story.

To go on a bit of a tangent, personally I think the reason that Cobalt
doesn't exist is that it's just too much extra work to make a Cobalt
device compared to just enhancing OS 5.x which already exists on real
devices (that are similar to new devices being produced). Perhaps the
move to the Linux kernel beneath Palm OS Cobalt will make the transition
to Cobalt easier for hardware manufacturers (like PalmOne, of course).
Supposedly, embedded Linux is so wildly popular today that most embedded
devices already have Linux support for them (drivers, etc.), which may
even make it easier to put Linux-based Cobalt on some new device that
PalmOne is designing than it would be to put OS 5.x on it.

More to the point, if Cobalt is difficult to put on a new device right
now, and if Linux is going to make it easier, and if there is no reason
to be in a hurry to produce Cobalt devices (from a business point of
view), it would make perfect sense for PalmOne to wait for Linux-based
Cobalt to be ready.

Of course, all this assumes that PalmSource is only doing their
Linux work on Cobalt and not also on OS 5.x. Personally, I am
assuming this is the case, since I would expect them not to put
lots of new work into Garnet. But, they could be doing both.

- Logan

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Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>I don't know what kind of battery is in the LifeDrive,

Reports have it a 3.7 volt 1660 milliamp-hour Lithium Ion battery.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

My take on the lifedrive is that it is a stop gap. PalmOne hasn't had a
decent handheld since the Vx. Its insane that I should have to go with
Sony since they seem to be the only company that has released an OS5
device that has what i want, and nothing i don't. And they are outta the
game! PalmOne is trying to figure it out now, and thats great,
unfortunately, they did it wrong this time. 4 GB HDD is not what i
wanted. I wanted Wifi, and maybe BT, but mostly wifi, in a sub 300
dollar machine that is not a snail, and not crash happy either. The TJ37
and TH55 are great examples (The TJ27, which i have, is also excellent,
besides the fact that i had to buy my wifi card). Heres hoping for a
better new palmone unit.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hello, Robert !
You wrote:

> My take on the lifedrive is that it is a stop gap. PalmOne hasn't had a
> decent handheld since the Vx. Its

I for one have been very fond of my Tungsten E and the Tungsten T3 is not
without it fans. And I also love my Treo 600 which despite its cellphone
moniker is as usable as a handheld as most unconnected PDAs.

> insane that I should have to go with
> Sony since they seem to be the only company that has released an OS5
> device that has what i want, and nothing i don't. And they are outta the
> game! PalmOne is trying to figure it out now, and thats great,
> unfortunately, they did it wrong this time. 4 GB HDD is not what i

I like the hard drive and have always wondered why someone didn't try to
put one in a PDA before (except for Sharp). So I'm taking a long, hard look
at at the LifeDrive.

> wanted. I wanted Wifi, and maybe BT, but mostly wifi, in a sub 300

You do realize that the Palm Vx debuted at $449?

My take on the LifeDrive is that it is exactly what PalmOne says it is --
an attempt to create a new handheld category. Their initial attempt is
bound to have its compromises and the LifeDrive certainly has its share.
But the real question is, do the pluses outweigh the minuses? My own
opinion is that for me they probably do, I use my Tungsten E to play MP3s,
video, and to read e-books. These are all tasks where the LifeDrive with
its big screen, huge battery, and ample storage should excel.
--
"It's a long story. And it ends with me on the roof of a goddamned nuthouse
on Route 128 doing a one-man tribute to the Three Stooges."
-- Art in "Eastern Standard Tribe"

Roberto Castillo
robertocastillo@ameritech.net

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I stopped in my local CompUSA today to check out the LifeDrive. They have a nice
little display set up with a loose leaf information book and a little pedestal
for the LD to sit in, and several boxed units in the case ready to sell. But the
actual demo unit was a FAKE!! It has a fake picture of the launcher on the
screen and no innards. All the other PDA's were real. I asked the sales guy why
and he wasn't sure but thought they didn't want the customers handling them.
Honest that's a quote...

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

AaronJ wrote:
> I stopped in my local CompUSA today to check out the LifeDrive. They have a nice
> little display set up with a loose leaf information book and a little pedestal
> for the LD to sit in, and several boxed units in the case ready to sell. But the
> actual demo unit was a FAKE!! It has a fake picture of the launcher on the
> screen and no innards. All the other PDA's were real. I asked the sales guy why
> and he wasn't sure but thought they didn't want the customers handling them.
> Honest that's a quote...

I'm usually a pretty mellow guy, but almost every time I go into the
local CompUSA, I come out frazzled and muttering obscenities. It's just
amazing to me to consider that someone in CUSA's senior management
hierarchy has determined that, by ignoring customer service and creating
a hostile shopping environment, they can make more money. Why do I go
there? Because they've long ago put most other local shops out of business.

Jeff

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hello, AaronJ !
You wrote:
>
> I stopped in my local CompUSA today to check out the LifeDrive.

I did the same on Friday.

> They have a nice
> little display set up with a loose leaf information book and a little
pedestal
> for the LD to sit in, and several boxed units in the case ready to sell.
But the
> actual demo unit was a FAKE!! It has a fake picture of the launcher on
the
> screen and no innards. All the other PDA's were real. I asked the sales
guy why
> and he wasn't sure but thought they didn't want the customers handling
them.
> Honest that's a quote...

My demo unit was real. It's a very nice little machine. As I had suspected
from the pre-release leaks, it's about the same size as the old Visor
handhelds. The beveled backplate makes it comfortable to hold. Performance
was a bit sluggish -- about a one or two second wait when launching
applications for the first time. This is due to the LD's hard drive, after
you've launched an application once it is cached in the device's memory and
will come up instantaneously. A soft reset takes about a minute -- again
because of the hard drive. During a reset the LifeDrive becomes very warm.
Otherwise, it performs the way you would expect a Palm device to perform.

It comes with some music and a video pre-installed so you can get a good
idea of its multimedia capabilities. The mono speaker is very loud. The
screen is brighter than Tungsten T5 and E screens but not as bright as the
TE2 or Treo 600's screen. With my Tungsten E having grown unstable in
recent weeks, I think I might just jump on the LD after I've had a few more
chances to play around with it.
--
"It's a long story. And it ends with me on the roof of a goddamned nuthouse
on Route 128 doing a one-man tribute to the Three Stooges."
-- Art in "Eastern Standard Tribe"

Roberto Castillo
robertocastillo@ameritech.net

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sun 22 May 2005 01:51:18p, Zombie Elvis, wrote:

> My demo unit was real. It's a very nice little machine. As I had
> suspected from the pre-release leaks, it's about the same size as the
> old Visor handhelds.

Sounds a lot better than I was led to believe. Someone said it was as
"big as a boat" or something similar. I don't consider a Visor-sized PDA
particularly big. Thanks for the mini review.

--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

DELETErobertocastillo@ameritech.net (Zombie Elvis) wrote:

>it's about the same size as the old Visor handhelds.

Yep pretty close. The extra weight probably puts it an uncomfortable pocket
carry though. The Visor was marginal. IMO over 5 oz is too heavy for PC...

Visor = 4.80 x 3.00 x .70 5.4 oz
LifeDrive = 4.76 x 2.87 x .74 6.8oz

>The beveled backplate makes it comfortable to hold.

Agreed, probably more comfortable in the hand than my squared cornered TungE.

>about a one or two second wait when launching
>applications for the first time. This is due to the LD's hard drive,

Apparently although many reviewers don't seem to know it, the advertised 64M of
user "RAM" is really a *partition* on the hard drive. I wonder why they just
didn't use flash for the ram? Probably cheaper this way...

> I think I might just jump on the LD after I've had a few more
>chances to play around with it.

I really would like to get a new Palm. It's been a year and I was really
considering this machine, even with it's reported warts. Course I still want to
find a live one to play with. CompUSA only has a dead one...

<Off topic gripe mode on>
While I was there at CompUSA I bought a Rhino-Skin aluminum case for my Zire72.
I wanted to try belt carrying awhile. I may have to do that if I buy a LD.
Anyway the Rhino-Skin case I bought is designed *only* for the Z72. It has a
hole in the bottom for the charging and USB plugs. Neither the charger or USB
plug would fit through the case opening. The hole is too SMALL!!! $30 bucks for
a fancy specially designed case and the damned hole is too small. What's with
these Rhino-Skin people?? Don't they check their holes (pun intended)? Well
luckily aluminum is easy to work with and I was able to modify it to work.
<Gripe mode off - now I feel better...>

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On Sun, 22 May 2005 21:16:11 GMT, AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:

><Off topic gripe mode on>
>While I was there at CompUSA I bought a Rhino-Skin aluminum case for my Zire72.
>I wanted to try belt carrying awhile. I may have to do that if I buy a LD.
>Anyway the Rhino-Skin case I bought is designed *only* for the Z72. It has a
>hole in the bottom for the charging and USB plugs. Neither the charger or USB
>plug would fit through the case opening. The hole is too SMALL!!! $30 bucks for
>a fancy specially designed case and the damned hole is too small. What's with
>these Rhino-Skin people?? Don't they check their holes (pun intended)? Well
>luckily aluminum is easy to work with and I was able to modify it to work.
><Gripe mode off - now I feel better...>

I know what you mean. I got a leather RhinoSkin case for my Tungsten
E. It's DOES have a cutout for the hotsync and power cable, and even a
little notch so you can access the stylus and the power button while
the case is closed. HOWEVER.... they did NOT provide a hole for the
headphone jack, which is just next to the power button!

Now, I can think of a situation where I want to have the case closed,
and have headphones plugged in: when the case is clipped to the belt
clip, and I have MP3s playing.

I cannot think of a situation where I would need to use the power
button without opening the case though. The case is made of freekin
leather! When I turn the palm on, I'm going to need to SEE the screen,
so I'll have to open the case anyway!

I used a pair of sharp scissors and extended the notch to include the
headphone jack myself, but now it looks shitty. RhinoSkin should have
at least given the prototype to a real person to test for a week
before going full production.



Remove the BALONEY from my email address.
-----------------------------------------------------
Matthew Fries Minneapolis, MN USA
freeze@baloneyvisi.com

"Quit eating all my *STUFF*!" - The Tick

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AaronJ <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:

>I stopped in my local CompUSA today to check out the LifeDrive.
>But the actual demo unit was a FAKE!!

Ok I thought I'd try again to see a real LifeDrive. Went to the local Circuit
City (Arrowhead store if you live in Phoenix) since my trip to CompUSA was a
bust. Circuit City used to have several handhelds out to play with. This time
there were no handhelds in sight. Asked the sales guy and he said they were
rearranging the store so the handhelds were all put away. But that when they
came back out they would all be in *sealed boxes only*. They would no longer
have a tryout PDA display. Heck of a way to sell handhelds. 2 stores down, I'll
keep trying...