Subject: Compatability and Performance

I would like to know all of what kinds of
motherboards,chipsets,and cpu's you have tested. And in what combinations, for
the best performance of Pro Audio and the new Sonar. I am set up to do
primarily audio and want to be able to do as many audio tracks simultaneously
as possible. I went to a dual-processor G4 Mac, but it will be a long time
before the second cpu would ever do me any good, and I was just not happy with
their excessive prices and picky hardware. Everything with them is expensive
and too selective. And I couldn't transfer my data back and forth to my PC
without spending a ton more money and a lot of extra time. So, it is gone. But
before I build another computer, I want to know what works the best with and
for what I already have and own. I have 2 dman 2044 cards, which came with Mac
drivers but would not work in a G4. And I have Cakewalk Pro Audio 8.0 Deluxe. I
am thinking of trying to put enough money together to build a dual processor
unit, but don't even know who makes a good board and what board and cpu
combinations will yeild the fastest most powerful performance, but stable and
consistent. I was hoping you might be able to offer some advice or at least
some results that might be beneficial to me during my decision making process.
I'm tired of buying stuff and fighting with computers and hardware, etc. I just
want to record and make good music. So, if you can help me I would be very
grateful.

Sincerely,
BobbyStevenEstell/ddrummer4jesus
Sounds of Grace Studio

I have not used the specific software that you are talking about, but I have worked with Cakewalk. I use it with a Delta 66 Analog to digital breakout box which allows me to have mike and acoustic guitar at the same time. I was using an old Yamaha XG soundcard with no problem, but ran into difficulty with the SB Platinum. The Breakout box has a PCI card, and the soundblaster really does not like to co-exist with it. I am running a T-Bird 750 (can OC), and an Abit KT7-RAID Motherboard with 224 MB PC 100 SDRAM. I have been really pleased with the performance of this rig. Allows me to playback previously recorded tracks through headphones and record additional ones in real time. It also handles real time effects with no problem. Hope that this helps.

Mike

The athlon sucks for sound recording. I wouldn't use AMD for anything professional.

This may effect the quality of your recording since playback is effected too.

http://forumz.tomshardware.com/mod [...] d=1&code=1

This patch doesnt fix the problem, it just hide it. your quality of recording will suck.

don't listen to fugger he is one of the most biaised people one this site at least in the since that he won't ever say anything good about AMD
i would personal wiat too see how the next generation p4 does becuase there is no way to get around the fact a p4 is good for bandwith intensive tasks

Yes but don't ever think about buying a current P4, they run at half FPU.....

=Quantum
AO Admin
The Dr.Twister Network
http://ao.drtwister.com

i've had success with my sb live platnium, running on a tbird 800- i would think you should concentrate your money on a good RAID-0 setup along with a top end athlon....

One thing to keep in mind is that older AMD chipsets were incompatible with Echo audio cards and other cards that basically had a Motorola DSP onboard.

I'm in the process of upgrading as well. I still have a PIII 450 that is bogging down with two many plug-ins (mostly direct x native). Speaking of direct x- direct x 8 has been a nightmare for most digital audio, and it's not easy to revert to a version of 7. I use Cubase, which is optimized for PIII instructions- so I'm a bit leary of going with AMD- but will probably opt for an Athalon anyway. I also need a new audio card- the Gina is hardware limited to 20 bits. If you go with any OS more potent than Win ME and run midi off USB you might have severe timing problems- Also, a bunch of audio cards don't play well with win 2000 (no drivers yet- at least not ASIO2... if that matters to you).

The bottom line is to not listen to anyone on this board and to research each element of your setup to make sure it is compatible with the motherboard and with the OS you go with. Those will be your two biggest potential problems.

I can't imagine you'd need RAID if you run modern HDs. Your drives stream mostly linear data anyway. I'd stick with two fast drives- probably skip SCSI unless you are a Rockerfeller and run your apps on one and your audio on the other, but that should do fine. My CPU always has bit the dust before I ran into HD problems- and of course you can always mute a few tracks and export if you run into either problem. Even at 24 bits, I've been fine with my ATA 66s. The inherent hardware limitations (like seek time) of the drives are probably more of a problem than transfer rates anyway. There are a lot of people who really get into overkill on all of these issues. I usually shoot for about $1000 to 1200 in parts (not including monitor) for an audio system. Paying an extra $500 only buys you about four months of extra technology!

Finally, do your homework regarding a dual processor system. Cakewalk might not even support it. Cubase FINALLY does, but you have to assign various elements of it to each processor. I'd be curious to see some audio benchmarks for this sort of thing. Rather than using dual processors, I'll load a VA on a separate box and run it through midi, export the audio over a network and keep it all digital.

Anyway... I'm just rambling at this point- but most of the "tips" for building an audio system are about two years out of date (like they STILL expouse the virtues of SCSI drives!!).

I don't know or understand anything about Raid setup's yet. I have been reading some good things about them in Maximum PC and the like. It seems that using IBM Drives and a Raid setup, is the way to fly. I just don't know what that entails or what it means. What exactly, is a Raid setup? And how does it differ or work differently from the common IDE and SCSI setup's?

Thanks for all the info. I've been pretty well turned against any of the Layla products and such. I don't know the signifigance of the DSP you mentioned, but have seen it pop up in things I've read. I have my 2 Dman 2044's, which are 20 but as well. The predecessors to the Delta series interfaces. Whilst owning my dual 500 G4 and Digital Performer, I was made aware of the MOTU interfaces, and feel pretty confidently, that they are the way to fly, since you can control any 3 of their interfaces with one card, unlike the Delta's and many others. So, my plan is to get a 2408 MkII, as it offers the most ins and outs and the most diversity of connection types. I have recently purchased a new O1v for the purpose of having surface control of my audio software, as well as being able to pre-mix all but 8 of my analog and digital ins and outs to the computer. Since the MOTU 2408 will give me 8 more analog ins and outs, as well as 3 banks each of ADAT and TASCAM digital ins and outs and some S/PDIF's, I feel like I have that area covered. Plus, I'm getting the expansion card for my O1v that lets me take advantage of 8 the ADAT channels on the 2408. That will let me run all of my ins and outs through the mixer, which has 2 full banks of effects processors built in, preamps on 12 channels and phantom power available for 12 or 16 channels. I can also record direct from the O1v to any analog or digital recording device, sub-mix the monitors on stage at the church where I play on Sundays, as well as be able to run sound for them or anyone else, including me at my studio.(my computer and I), and take snapshots of the mixes, so that I can just pull them back up at any time and the motorized faders and knobs will go right back to those original settings. Outside of having the right computer setup for optimum recording capabilities, I should be almost set. Although I have been told I should probably get Cubase. Now if I could just figure out how to hook up and turn on all that stuff, I'd be in business.
Really, the most important thing that concerns me at this point, is being able to record enough audio tracks simultaneously, at my church, with out the computer stumbling. At home it really is not an issue, yet. After all, I can only play one instrument at a time. And I could do that with either of my good sound cards. My AWE64Gold Deluxe, and my Sound Blaster Live Card. Both do a great job. Sure wish I could get windows to allow mw to install and use multiple sound cards. Then I wouldn't even need those expensive interface cards. BTW, I have had as many as 5 Sound Cards installed along with my Dman cards, and windows let me, after I disabled half of the unneeded stuff on my computer. But, it would not let me input and/or output to but one, not counting the Dman cards. Bummer!

Anyway, thanks for your time.
Bob Estell/ddrummer4jesus
ddrummer-ffb@ionet.net

Thanks again. I am leary of A-bit boards because of the trouble I've had with them being extremely picky about the brand of Ram I use. I don't like that at all, but except for that, they are an impressive piece of hardware.

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it.
Bob Estell

Does that mean none of the PIII's are good for the task, or just that the PIV is better. I don't think I could get anywhere near being able to purchase any of the PIV's for a long time. And I don't want to wait too long. Wouldn't you say that the PIII's would still be better for my purposes than the AMD's, or not?

Bob Estell.

Half of what? Or half of what other CPU's? And what's the signifigance of that?

Bob Estell

>>I wouldn't use *** for anything professional
Like you would do something professional in your life!


8"

i was just saying that the next genararion p4 might be something to look into when it comes out according to intle the price are spose to be down around the sdram prices by then which would make the system price a bit closer to a none p4 pc

Drummer, get a CUSL2 by asus, a P3 667 ~ 1Ghz (depending on budget) and at least 256MB PC133 RAM,geforce2 MX, ATA100 hard rive, and a high end sound card with midi (quite a few to choose from, depending on your needs)

For well under $1000 you will have extreamly stable machine that will not self destruct at 50degrees celcius, suffer from VIA chipset nightmare, it will be 100% intel compatable, everything will operate correctly without line noise, CPU process pausing, and no stupid VIA/Win2k patch.

Take a minute to read thru the dozens of posts on AMD and thermal problems/failure, incompatabilities, and other crap associated with owning them.

Then you can "try" to find a Intel post with problem.

People talk of more bang for your buck, but in reality you spend same amount on both. gotta figure in 300+ watt PSU, extra heavy duty HSF, extra fans in case, higher prices on motherboard, and higher price on DDR ram. not including your time it takes to confirm each part is AMD approved and getting feedback here to make sure you dont step on land mine. like the SupraExpress modem does not work on most AMD systems period. had to give an example or the AMD lemmings will try to come back with "what incompatabilities" or "what doesnt work".