Archived from groups: microsoft.public.broadbandnet.hardware (More info?)

(4) MN-820 device LAN/WLAN configuration

Here is what we are trying to do:

cable modem
|
MN-820 as a DHCP server, NAT, firewall, switch,
and wireless access point (channel 1)
|
/
|
MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 6)
|
/
|
MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 11)
|
/
|
MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 1)

Regarding the wireless, the two units on channel 1 are in
seperate buildings about 300 feet apart with lots of
concrete and other building materials inbetween. We are
hoping that there is no interference between them.

The problem we had was that the DHCP server stopped
working when we had it in this four unit configuration.
Two devices works okay.

There is a firmware upgrade that has not yet been applied.
Does it correct anything with the DHCP server cutting out?
It cut out on us one time with the 2 device config but a
reset corrected it.

Also, I want to be sure that I'm setting these up
correctly.

Regarding the wireless, we believe we understand the
parameters okay. Choosing not to use MAC ID filtering or
worring about broadcasting the SSID, we are using a 128
bit WEP password for security.

But I'm confused about 2 things:

Since we want to use the 3 additional devices as both
wireless access points and as a wired LAN switch, I
thought that changing the base station mode to "Access
Point" might stop the wired switch/hub from working. (I'm
not able to get onto the premises to test things out but
have to rely on info from various sources and remotely
direct people via phone to configure these.)

SO, what I did was to simply have them turn off the DHCP
server in the 3 additional units. This config param works
when using two units.

So the FIRST question is: Does the wired LAN switch still
work if I have the 3 additional units put into the "Base
Station Access Point" mode?

The SECOND question I have is this: The WLAN socket on the
MN820 connects to the modem for the first device. But what
is the function/usage of this socket for the 3 additional
devices? In other words, (perhaps depending on the answer
to my first question), Does the CAT-5 cable coming from
the first unit plug into the WLAN socket of the second
unit or do we just use one of the 4 LAN sockets?

I sure hope I was able to articulate these questions cause
we really could use a couple of answers here!

Thanks so much,
Ed

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.broadbandnet.hardware (More info?)

OK First off the Firmware upgrade does fix several issues including one
about the DHCP server.

BTW the MN-820 is a kit with the MN-700 as a router & the MN-720
wireless notebook kit.

Since you said what was separating the two MN-700s is 300 Feet I have to
ask how long is the cable run to the last MN-700?

Disabling the broadcasting of the SSID is not a valid form of wireless
security because every wireless packet includes the SSID outside of the
encrypted part of the packet.

WEP has a know flaw in it's original design. If you are using Windows
XP computers I'd highly recommend using WPA as it is more secure.

When you change the MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 into bridging mode (AKA
Access Point mode) it become a switch in the case of the MN-100 (no
wireless) or a bridge in the case of the MN-500 & MN-700. All 5 port
work. The only stipulation is that the WAN port is limited to 10 mbps
also it is the uplink port. The WAN port will automatically detect if
it needs to be a crossover or not while the other 4 ports do not check
if they need to do that.

A detailed set of directions for using up to three Microsoft routers is
just after this line.

Broadband modem --> WAN port of MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1
MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1 LAN port #2 --> WAN port of MN-100, MN-500,
or MN-700 #2
MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1 LAN port #3 --> WAN port of MN-100, MN-500,
or MN-700 #3 (if available)

Make sure all MN-100s & MN-500s are running the latest firmware 1.11.017

Make sure all MN-700s are running the latest firmware 2.01.02.0590

Now lets look at the setup of each MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700:

MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1
router mode
LAN IP address at default of 192.168.2.1
some SSID (if wireless)
some WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
channel 6 (if wireless)

MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #2
bridge mode
LAN IP address at 192.168.2.42, outside of default DHCP range
same SSID (if wireless)
same WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
channel 1 (if wireless)

MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #3 (if available)
bridge mode
LAN IP address at 192.168.2.43, outside of default DHCP range
same SSID (if wireless)
same WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
channel 11 (if wireless)


If you keep the SSID and WEP key or WPA key (if using the MN-700) the
same for all base stations, people will be able to move between
locations and get a connection.

If you are using WEP on some but WPA on other wireless routers you will
have to reconfigure the wireless settings as you switch between wireless
networks.

You need to select non-overlapping channels for the base stations to
prevent interference.

Non-overlapping channels have at least 5 channels between them as 1, 6,
& 11 do.

Channels 1, 6, & 11 are the three non-overlapping channels.

There are more combinations if you only need two channels.

Ed wrote:

> (4) MN-820 device LAN/WLAN configuration
>
> Here is what we are trying to do:
>
> cable modem
> |
> MN-820 as a DHCP server, NAT, firewall, switch,
> and wireless access point (channel 1)
> |
> /
> |
> MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 6)
> |
> /
> |
> MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 11)
> |
> /
> |
> MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 1)
>
> Regarding the wireless, the two units on channel 1 are in
> seperate buildings about 300 feet apart with lots of
> concrete and other building materials inbetween. We are
> hoping that there is no interference between them.
>
> The problem we had was that the DHCP server stopped
> working when we had it in this four unit configuration.
> Two devices works okay.
>
> There is a firmware upgrade that has not yet been applied.
> Does it correct anything with the DHCP server cutting out?
> It cut out on us one time with the 2 device config but a
> reset corrected it.
>
> Also, I want to be sure that I'm setting these up
> correctly.
>
> Regarding the wireless, we believe we understand the
> parameters okay. Choosing not to use MAC ID filtering or
> worring about broadcasting the SSID, we are using a 128
> bit WEP password for security.
>
> But I'm confused about 2 things:
>
> Since we want to use the 3 additional devices as both
> wireless access points and as a wired LAN switch, I
> thought that changing the base station mode to "Access
> Point" might stop the wired switch/hub from working. (I'm
> not able to get onto the premises to test things out but
> have to rely on info from various sources and remotely
> direct people via phone to configure these.)
>
> SO, what I did was to simply have them turn off the DHCP
> server in the 3 additional units. This config param works
> when using two units.
>
> So the FIRST question is: Does the wired LAN switch still
> work if I have the 3 additional units put into the "Base
> Station Access Point" mode?
>
> The SECOND question I have is this: The WLAN socket on the
> MN820 connects to the modem for the first device. But what
> is the function/usage of this socket for the 3 additional
> devices? In other words, (perhaps depending on the answer
> to my first question), Does the CAT-5 cable coming from
> the first unit plug into the WLAN socket of the second
> unit or do we just use one of the 4 LAN sockets?
>
> I sure hope I was able to articulate these questions cause
> we really could use a couple of answers here!
>
> Thanks so much,
> Ed
>
>
>
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.broadbandnet.hardware (More info?)

Fantastic, Joker! You answered some questions that I
needed to know but didn't know enough to ask. If you would
please, a clarification.

Yes, after I posted I realized that MN820 was the kit; we
purchased 4 so we have 4 of the MN700 and 4 of the MN720.

Cable run: Hmmm. Probably 300 feet from MN700#1 to a
switch embedded deep in the building. Then from that
switch, about 150 feet to MN720#2. Also from that
same "embedded" switch about 200 feet to MN720#3. Finally,
from MN720#3 to MN720#4 is about 200 feet. Because the
building sort of wraps around, it is more likely about 400
feet between the 2 similar channels, that is, I'm using
channel 1 twice but on the two wireless access points that
are furthest (farthest? both look funny) apart.

Why do you ask about the distance?

I heard about the uselessness of disabling the SSID
broadcast, but not about the WEP problem except about how
packets can be captured and reused because there is no
sequencing in the encrypted part to identify this hack,
but we are not doing anything particularly interesting to
most people so the only security we want is preventing
people from getting "in" to our network. Don't want them
messing with the file server sort of thing. I picked WEP
since the WPA isn't implemented by other vendors yet, at
least that's what I gather. Maybe I'm wrong.

Ok, here is the clarification I need: It sounds like
turning off the DHCP server on MN720 #s 2, 3, and 4 is not
right; I should put the 3 extras into Access Point mode
turning off the firewall and NAT as well. Right so far? My
big question is this: Do I need to use the slower WAN port
to connect MN700#1 to the others? Could I just connect
numbers 2, 3, and 4 into the LAN using one of the switch
ports or is that a no-go? If I can't do that, then I'll
buy 3 more switches (one for each access point) and then
the wired computers near these points can get full speed
full duplex bandwidth. THen I'll just plug the WAN of the
3 extra access points into the 3 switches to serve the
wireless users. If I must use the WAN port then my
alternative will best serve the need for speed geeks. (of
which I R 1).

Oh, and thanks for the reminder to set the IP outside the
range of the DHCP served-up-IPs. Duh!

And thanks so much for your thorough assistance. We live
in such a great time in history! This stuff is so much
fun!

Ed


>-----Original Message-----
>OK First off the Firmware upgrade does fix several issues
including one
>about the DHCP server.
>
>BTW the MN-820 is a kit with the MN-700 as a router & the
MN-720
>wireless notebook kit.
>
>Since you said what was separating the two MN-700s is 300
Feet I have to
>ask how long is the cable run to the last MN-700?
>
>Disabling the broadcasting of the SSID is not a valid
form of wireless
>security because every wireless packet includes the SSID
outside of the
>encrypted part of the packet.
>
>WEP has a know flaw in it's original design. If you are
using Windows
>XP computers I'd highly recommend using WPA as it is more
secure.
>
>When you change the MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 into
bridging mode (AKA
>Access Point mode) it become a switch in the case of the
MN-100 (no
>wireless) or a bridge in the case of the MN-500 & MN-
700. All 5 port
>work. The only stipulation is that the WAN port is
limited to 10 mbps
>also it is the uplink port. The WAN port will
automatically detect if
>it needs to be a crossover or not while the other 4 ports
do not check
>if they need to do that.
>
>A detailed set of directions for using up to three
Microsoft routers is
>just after this line.
>
>Broadband modem --> WAN port of MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700
#1
>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1 LAN port #2 --> WAN port of
MN-100, MN-500,
>or MN-700 #2
>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1 LAN port #3 --> WAN port of
MN-100, MN-500,
>or MN-700 #3 (if available)
>
>Make sure all MN-100s & MN-500s are running the latest
firmware 1.11.017
>
>Make sure all MN-700s are running the latest firmware
2.01.02.0590
>
>Now lets look at the setup of each MN-100, MN-500, or MN-
700:
>
>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1
>router mode
>LAN IP address at default of 192.168.2.1
>some SSID (if wireless)
>some WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>channel 6 (if wireless)
>
>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #2
>bridge mode
>LAN IP address at 192.168.2.42, outside of default DHCP
range
>same SSID (if wireless)
>same WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>channel 1 (if wireless)
>
>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #3 (if available)
>bridge mode
>LAN IP address at 192.168.2.43, outside of default DHCP
range
>same SSID (if wireless)
>same WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>channel 11 (if wireless)
>
>
>If you keep the SSID and WEP key or WPA key (if using the
MN-700) the
>same for all base stations, people will be able to move
between
>locations and get a connection.
>
>If you are using WEP on some but WPA on other wireless
routers you will
>have to reconfigure the wireless settings as you switch
between wireless
>networks.
>
>You need to select non-overlapping channels for the base
stations to
>prevent interference.
>
>Non-overlapping channels have at least 5 channels between
them as 1, 6,
>& 11 do.
>
>Channels 1, 6, & 11 are the three non-overlapping
channels.
>
>There are more combinations if you only need two channels.
>
>Ed wrote:
>
>> (4) MN-820 device LAN/WLAN configuration
>>
>> Here is what we are trying to do:
>>
>> cable modem
>> |
>> MN-820 as a DHCP server, NAT, firewall, switch,
>> and wireless access point (channel 1)
>> |
>> /
>> |
>> MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 6)
>> |
>> /
>> |
>> MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 11)
>> |
>> /
>> |
>> MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 1)
>>
>> Regarding the wireless, the two units on channel 1 are
in
>> seperate buildings about 300 feet apart with lots of
>> concrete and other building materials inbetween. We are
>> hoping that there is no interference between them.
>>
>> The problem we had was that the DHCP server stopped
>> working when we had it in this four unit configuration.
>> Two devices works okay.
>>
>> There is a firmware upgrade that has not yet been
applied.
>> Does it correct anything with the DHCP server cutting
out?
>> It cut out on us one time with the 2 device config but
a
>> reset corrected it.
>>
>> Also, I want to be sure that I'm setting these up
>> correctly.
>>
>> Regarding the wireless, we believe we understand the
>> parameters okay. Choosing not to use MAC ID filtering
or
>> worring about broadcasting the SSID, we are using a 128
>> bit WEP password for security.
>>
>> But I'm confused about 2 things:
>>
>> Since we want to use the 3 additional devices as both
>> wireless access points and as a wired LAN switch, I
>> thought that changing the base station mode to "Access
>> Point" might stop the wired switch/hub from working.
(I'm
>> not able to get onto the premises to test things out
but
>> have to rely on info from various sources and remotely
>> direct people via phone to configure these.)
>>
>> SO, what I did was to simply have them turn off the
DHCP
>> server in the 3 additional units. This config param
works
>> when using two units.
>>
>> So the FIRST question is: Does the wired LAN switch
still
>> work if I have the 3 additional units put into
the "Base
>> Station Access Point" mode?
>>
>> The SECOND question I have is this: The WLAN socket on
the
>> MN820 connects to the modem for the first device. But
what
>> is the function/usage of this socket for the 3
additional
>> devices? In other words, (perhaps depending on the
answer
>> to my first question), Does the CAT-5 cable coming from
>> the first unit plug into the WLAN socket of the second
>> unit or do we just use one of the 4 LAN sockets?
>>
>> I sure hope I was able to articulate these questions
cause
>> we really could use a couple of answers here!
>>
>> Thanks so much,
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>.
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.broadbandnet.hardware (More info?)

You can use the other ports you just need to use a crossover cable in
that case because the non WAN ports do not detect if the connection
needs to be crossover.

The reason I asked about cable run length is because 10-base T, 100-base
T, & 1000-base T all require the cable runs to be 100 meters or less.
This amounts to about 328 feet according to the Metric to English
converter at http://ravenx21.tripod.com/con.html as well as
http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/length And last but not least
http://www.onlineconversion.com/length_common.htm. So you really want
to check the length of the 300 foot run as it is really close to the
maximum length.

The other issue you may have is that Twisted pair has a limited number
of hops. I forget the exact amount. I'm still looking it up.

Also by switching it into access point mode will disable the DHCP
server, NAT, along with any features that require NAT such as client
filtering & MAC filtering.

anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com wrote:

> Fantastic, Joker! You answered some questions that I
> needed to know but didn't know enough to ask. If you would
> please, a clarification.
>
> Yes, after I posted I realized that MN820 was the kit; we
> purchased 4 so we have 4 of the MN700 and 4 of the MN720.
>
> Cable run: Hmmm. Probably 300 feet from MN700#1 to a
> switch embedded deep in the building. Then from that
> switch, about 150 feet to MN720#2. Also from that
> same "embedded" switch about 200 feet to MN720#3. Finally,
> from MN720#3 to MN720#4 is about 200 feet. Because the
> building sort of wraps around, it is more likely about 400
> feet between the 2 similar channels, that is, I'm using
> channel 1 twice but on the two wireless access points that
> are furthest (farthest? both look funny) apart.
>
> Why do you ask about the distance?
>
> I heard about the uselessness of disabling the SSID
> broadcast, but not about the WEP problem except about how
> packets can be captured and reused because there is no
> sequencing in the encrypted part to identify this hack,
> but we are not doing anything particularly interesting to
> most people so the only security we want is preventing
> people from getting "in" to our network. Don't want them
> messing with the file server sort of thing. I picked WEP
> since the WPA isn't implemented by other vendors yet, at
> least that's what I gather. Maybe I'm wrong.
>
> Ok, here is the clarification I need: It sounds like
> turning off the DHCP server on MN720 #s 2, 3, and 4 is not
> right; I should put the 3 extras into Access Point mode
> turning off the firewall and NAT as well. Right so far? My
> big question is this: Do I need to use the slower WAN port
> to connect MN700#1 to the others? Could I just connect
> numbers 2, 3, and 4 into the LAN using one of the switch
> ports or is that a no-go? If I can't do that, then I'll
> buy 3 more switches (one for each access point) and then
> the wired computers near these points can get full speed
> full duplex bandwidth. THen I'll just plug the WAN of the
> 3 extra access points into the 3 switches to serve the
> wireless users. If I must use the WAN port then my
> alternative will best serve the need for speed geeks. (of
> which I R 1).
>
> Oh, and thanks for the reminder to set the IP outside the
> range of the DHCP served-up-IPs. Duh!
>
> And thanks so much for your thorough assistance. We live
> in such a great time in history! This stuff is so much
> fun!
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>OK First off the Firmware upgrade does fix several issues
>
> including one
>
>>about the DHCP server.
>>
>>BTW the MN-820 is a kit with the MN-700 as a router & the
>
> MN-720
>
>>wireless notebook kit.
>>
>>Since you said what was separating the two MN-700s is 300
>
> Feet I have to
>
>>ask how long is the cable run to the last MN-700?
>>
>>Disabling the broadcasting of the SSID is not a valid
>
> form of wireless
>
>>security because every wireless packet includes the SSID
>
> outside of the
>
>>encrypted part of the packet.
>>
>>WEP has a know flaw in it's original design. If you are
>
> using Windows
>
>>XP computers I'd highly recommend using WPA as it is more
>
> secure.
>
>>When you change the MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 into
>
> bridging mode (AKA
>
>>Access Point mode) it become a switch in the case of the
>
> MN-100 (no
>
>>wireless) or a bridge in the case of the MN-500 & MN-
>
> 700. All 5 port
>
>>work. The only stipulation is that the WAN port is
>
> limited to 10 mbps
>
>>also it is the uplink port. The WAN port will
>
> automatically detect if
>
>>it needs to be a crossover or not while the other 4 ports
>
> do not check
>
>>if they need to do that.
>>
>>A detailed set of directions for using up to three
>
> Microsoft routers is
>
>>just after this line.
>>
>>Broadband modem --> WAN port of MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700
>
> #1
>
>>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1 LAN port #2 --> WAN port of
>
> MN-100, MN-500,
>
>>or MN-700 #2
>>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1 LAN port #3 --> WAN port of
>
> MN-100, MN-500,
>
>>or MN-700 #3 (if available)
>>
>>Make sure all MN-100s & MN-500s are running the latest
>
> firmware 1.11.017
>
>>Make sure all MN-700s are running the latest firmware
>
> 2.01.02.0590
>
>>Now lets look at the setup of each MN-100, MN-500, or MN-
>
> 700:
>
>>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1
>>router mode
>>LAN IP address at default of 192.168.2.1
>>some SSID (if wireless)
>>some WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>>channel 6 (if wireless)
>>
>>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #2
>>bridge mode
>>LAN IP address at 192.168.2.42, outside of default DHCP
>
> range
>
>>same SSID (if wireless)
>>same WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>>channel 1 (if wireless)
>>
>>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #3 (if available)
>>bridge mode
>>LAN IP address at 192.168.2.43, outside of default DHCP
>
> range
>
>>same SSID (if wireless)
>>same WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>>channel 11 (if wireless)
>>
>>
>>If you keep the SSID and WEP key or WPA key (if using the
>
> MN-700) the
>
>>same for all base stations, people will be able to move
>
> between
>
>>locations and get a connection.
>>
>>If you are using WEP on some but WPA on other wireless
>
> routers you will
>
>>have to reconfigure the wireless settings as you switch
>
> between wireless
>
>>networks.
>>
>>You need to select non-overlapping channels for the base
>
> stations to
>
>>prevent interference.
>>
>>Non-overlapping channels have at least 5 channels between
>
> them as 1, 6,
>
>>& 11 do.
>>
>>Channels 1, 6, & 11 are the three non-overlapping
>
> channels.
>
>>There are more combinations if you only need two channels.
>>
>>Ed wrote:
>>
>>
>>>(4) MN-820 device LAN/WLAN configuration
>>>
>>>Here is what we are trying to do:
>>>
>>>cable modem
>>> |
>>>MN-820 as a DHCP server, NAT, firewall, switch,
>>>and wireless access point (channel 1)
>>> |
>>> /
>>> |
>>>MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 6)
>>> |
>>> /
>>> |
>>>MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 11)
>>> |
>>> /
>>> |
>>>MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 1)
>>>
>>>Regarding the wireless, the two units on channel 1 are
>
> in
>
>>>seperate buildings about 300 feet apart with lots of
>>>concrete and other building materials inbetween. We are
>>>hoping that there is no interference between them.
>>>
>>>The problem we had was that the DHCP server stopped
>>>working when we had it in this four unit configuration.
>>>Two devices works okay.
>>>
>>>There is a firmware upgrade that has not yet been
>
> applied.
>
>>>Does it correct anything with the DHCP server cutting
>
> out?
>
>>>It cut out on us one time with the 2 device config but
>
> a
>
>>>reset corrected it.
>>>
>>>Also, I want to be sure that I'm setting these up
>>>correctly.
>>>
>>>Regarding the wireless, we believe we understand the
>>>parameters okay. Choosing not to use MAC ID filtering
>
> or
>
>>>worring about broadcasting the SSID, we are using a 128
>>>bit WEP password for security.
>>>
>>>But I'm confused about 2 things:
>>>
>>>Since we want to use the 3 additional devices as both
>>>wireless access points and as a wired LAN switch, I
>>>thought that changing the base station mode to "Access
>>>Point" might stop the wired switch/hub from working.
>
> (I'm
>
>>>not able to get onto the premises to test things out
>
> but
>
>>>have to rely on info from various sources and remotely
>>>direct people via phone to configure these.)
>>>
>>>SO, what I did was to simply have them turn off the
>
> DHCP
>
>>>server in the 3 additional units. This config param
>
> works
>
>>>when using two units.
>>>
>>>So the FIRST question is: Does the wired LAN switch
>
> still
>
>>>work if I have the 3 additional units put into
>
> the "Base
>
>>>Station Access Point" mode?
>>>
>>>The SECOND question I have is this: The WLAN socket on
>
> the
>
>>>MN820 connects to the modem for the first device. But
>
> what
>
>>>is the function/usage of this socket for the 3
>
> additional
>
>>>devices? In other words, (perhaps depending on the
>
> answer
>
>>>to my first question), Does the CAT-5 cable coming from
>>>the first unit plug into the WLAN socket of the second
>>>unit or do we just use one of the 4 LAN sockets?
>>>
>>>I sure hope I was able to articulate these questions
>
> cause
>
>>>we really could use a couple of answers here!
>>>
>>>Thanks so much,
>>>Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>.
>>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.broadbandnet.hardware (More info?)

I did just now find some reference to the maximum number of repeaters
(switches, hubs, bridges, Etc...). It can be found at
http://www.ethermanage.com/ethernet/ch13-ora/ch13.html for your
information. It's in the section about the 'The "5-4-3" Rule' as well
as more detailed information above that.

joker wrote:

> You can use the other ports you just need to use a crossover cable in
> that case because the non WAN ports do not detect if the connection
> needs to be crossover.
>
> The reason I asked about cable run length is because 10-base T, 100-base
> T, & 1000-base T all require the cable runs to be 100 meters or less.
> This amounts to about 328 feet according to the Metric to English
> converter at http://ravenx21.tripod.com/con.html as well as
> http://www.convert-me.com/en/convert/length And last but not least
> http://www.onlineconversion.com/length_common.htm. So you really want
> to check the length of the 300 foot run as it is really close to the
> maximum length.
>
> The other issue you may have is that Twisted pair has a limited number
> of hops. I forget the exact amount. I'm still looking it up.
>
> Also by switching it into access point mode will disable the DHCP
> server, NAT, along with any features that require NAT such as client
> filtering & MAC filtering.
>
> anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com wrote:
>
>> Fantastic, Joker! You answered some questions that I needed to know
>> but didn't know enough to ask. If you would please, a clarification.
>>
>> Yes, after I posted I realized that MN820 was the kit; we purchased 4
>> so we have 4 of the MN700 and 4 of the MN720.
>>
>> Cable run: Hmmm. Probably 300 feet from MN700#1 to a switch embedded
>> deep in the building. Then from that switch, about 150 feet to
>> MN720#2. Also from that same "embedded" switch about 200 feet to
>> MN720#3. Finally, from MN720#3 to MN720#4 is about 200 feet. Because
>> the building sort of wraps around, it is more likely about 400 feet
>> between the 2 similar channels, that is, I'm using channel 1 twice but
>> on the two wireless access points that are furthest (farthest? both
>> look funny) apart.
>> Why do you ask about the distance?
>> I heard about the uselessness of disabling the SSID broadcast, but not
>> about the WEP problem except about how packets can be captured and
>> reused because there is no sequencing in the encrypted part to
>> identify this hack, but we are not doing anything particularly
>> interesting to most people so the only security we want is preventing
>> people from getting "in" to our network. Don't want them messing with
>> the file server sort of thing. I picked WEP since the WPA isn't
>> implemented by other vendors yet, at least that's what I gather. Maybe
>> I'm wrong.
>>
>> Ok, here is the clarification I need: It sounds like turning off the
>> DHCP server on MN720 #s 2, 3, and 4 is not right; I should put the 3
>> extras into Access Point mode turning off the firewall and NAT as
>> well. Right so far? My big question is this: Do I need to use the
>> slower WAN port to connect MN700#1 to the others? Could I just connect
>> numbers 2, 3, and 4 into the LAN using one of the switch ports or is
>> that a no-go? If I can't do that, then I'll buy 3 more switches (one
>> for each access point) and then the wired computers near these points
>> can get full speed full duplex bandwidth. THen I'll just plug the WAN
>> of the 3 extra access points into the 3 switches to serve the wireless
>> users. If I must use the WAN port then my alternative will best serve
>> the need for speed geeks. (of which I R 1).
>>
>> Oh, and thanks for the reminder to set the IP outside the range of the
>> DHCP served-up-IPs. Duh!
>>
>> And thanks so much for your thorough assistance. We live in such a
>> great time in history! This stuff is so much fun!
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> OK First off the Firmware upgrade does fix several issues
>>
>>
>> including one
>>
>>> about the DHCP server.
>>>
>>> BTW the MN-820 is a kit with the MN-700 as a router & the
>>
>>
>> MN-720
>>
>>> wireless notebook kit.
>>>
>>> Since you said what was separating the two MN-700s is 300
>>
>>
>> Feet I have to
>>
>>> ask how long is the cable run to the last MN-700?
>>>
>>> Disabling the broadcasting of the SSID is not a valid
>>
>>
>> form of wireless
>>
>>> security because every wireless packet includes the SSID
>>
>>
>> outside of the
>>
>>> encrypted part of the packet.
>>>
>>> WEP has a know flaw in it's original design. If you are
>>
>>
>> using Windows
>>
>>> XP computers I'd highly recommend using WPA as it is more
>>
>>
>> secure.
>>
>>> When you change the MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 into
>>
>>
>> bridging mode (AKA
>>
>>> Access Point mode) it become a switch in the case of the
>>
>>
>> MN-100 (no
>>
>>> wireless) or a bridge in the case of the MN-500 & MN-
>>
>>
>> 700. All 5 port
>>
>>> work. The only stipulation is that the WAN port is
>>
>>
>> limited to 10 mbps
>>
>>> also it is the uplink port. The WAN port will
>>
>>
>> automatically detect if
>>
>>> it needs to be a crossover or not while the other 4 ports
>>
>>
>> do not check
>>
>>> if they need to do that.
>>>
>>> A detailed set of directions for using up to three
>>
>>
>> Microsoft routers is
>>
>>> just after this line.
>>>
>>> Broadband modem --> WAN port of MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700
>>
>>
>> #1
>>
>>> MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1 LAN port #2 --> WAN port of
>>
>>
>> MN-100, MN-500,
>>
>>> or MN-700 #2
>>> MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1 LAN port #3 --> WAN port of
>>
>>
>> MN-100, MN-500,
>>
>>> or MN-700 #3 (if available)
>>>
>>> Make sure all MN-100s & MN-500s are running the latest
>>
>>
>> firmware 1.11.017
>>
>>> Make sure all MN-700s are running the latest firmware
>>
>>
>> 2.01.02.0590
>>
>>> Now lets look at the setup of each MN-100, MN-500, or MN-
>>
>>
>> 700:
>>
>>> MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1
>>> router mode
>>> LAN IP address at default of 192.168.2.1
>>> some SSID (if wireless)
>>> some WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>>> channel 6 (if wireless)
>>>
>>> MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #2
>>> bridge mode
>>> LAN IP address at 192.168.2.42, outside of default DHCP
>>
>>
>> range
>>
>>> same SSID (if wireless)
>>> same WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>>> channel 1 (if wireless)
>>>
>>> MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #3 (if available)
>>> bridge mode
>>> LAN IP address at 192.168.2.43, outside of default DHCP
>>
>>
>> range
>>
>>> same SSID (if wireless)
>>> same WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>>> channel 11 (if wireless)
>>>
>>>
>>> If you keep the SSID and WEP key or WPA key (if using the
>>
>>
>> MN-700) the
>>
>>> same for all base stations, people will be able to move
>>
>>
>> between
>>
>>> locations and get a connection.
>>>
>>> If you are using WEP on some but WPA on other wireless
>>
>>
>> routers you will
>>
>>> have to reconfigure the wireless settings as you switch
>>
>>
>> between wireless
>>
>>> networks.
>>>
>>> You need to select non-overlapping channels for the base
>>
>>
>> stations to
>>
>>> prevent interference.
>>>
>>> Non-overlapping channels have at least 5 channels between
>>
>>
>> them as 1, 6,
>>
>>> & 11 do.
>>>
>>> Channels 1, 6, & 11 are the three non-overlapping
>>
>>
>> channels.
>>
>>> There are more combinations if you only need two channels.
>>>
>>> Ed wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> (4) MN-820 device LAN/WLAN configuration
>>>>
>>>> Here is what we are trying to do:
>>>>
>>>> cable modem
>>>> |
>>>> MN-820 as a DHCP server, NAT, firewall, switch,
>>>> and wireless access point (channel 1)
>>>> |
>>>> /
>>>> |
>>>> MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 6)
>>>> |
>>>> /
>>>> |
>>>> MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 11)
>>>> |
>>>> /
>>>> |
>>>> MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 1)
>>>>
>>>> Regarding the wireless, the two units on channel 1 are
>>
>>
>> in
>>
>>>> seperate buildings about 300 feet apart with lots of concrete and
>>>> other building materials inbetween. We are hoping that there is no
>>>> interference between them.
>>>>
>>>> The problem we had was that the DHCP server stopped working when we
>>>> had it in this four unit configuration. Two devices works okay.
>>>>
>>>> There is a firmware upgrade that has not yet been
>>
>>
>> applied.
>>
>>>> Does it correct anything with the DHCP server cutting
>>
>>
>> out?
>>
>>>> It cut out on us one time with the 2 device config but
>>
>>
>> a
>>
>>>> reset corrected it.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I want to be sure that I'm setting these up correctly.
>>>> Regarding the wireless, we believe we understand the parameters
>>>> okay. Choosing not to use MAC ID filtering
>>
>>
>> or
>>
>>>> worring about broadcasting the SSID, we are using a 128 bit WEP
>>>> password for security.
>>>>
>>>> But I'm confused about 2 things:
>>>>
>>>> Since we want to use the 3 additional devices as both wireless
>>>> access points and as a wired LAN switch, I thought that changing the
>>>> base station mode to "Access Point" might stop the wired switch/hub
>>>> from working.
>>
>>
>> (I'm
>>
>>>> not able to get onto the premises to test things out
>>
>>
>> but
>>
>>>> have to rely on info from various sources and remotely direct people
>>>> via phone to configure these.)
>>>> SO, what I did was to simply have them turn off the
>>
>>
>> DHCP
>>
>>>> server in the 3 additional units. This config param
>>
>>
>> works
>>
>>>> when using two units.
>>>>
>>>> So the FIRST question is: Does the wired LAN switch
>>
>>
>> still
>>
>>>> work if I have the 3 additional units put into
>>
>>
>> the "Base
>>
>>>> Station Access Point" mode?
>>>>
>>>> The SECOND question I have is this: The WLAN socket on
>>
>>
>> the
>>
>>>> MN820 connects to the modem for the first device. But
>>
>>
>> what
>>
>>>> is the function/usage of this socket for the 3
>>
>>
>> additional
>>
>>>> devices? In other words, (perhaps depending on the
>>
>>
>> answer
>>
>>>> to my first question), Does the CAT-5 cable coming from the first
>>>> unit plug into the WLAN socket of the second unit or do we just use
>>>> one of the 4 LAN sockets?
>>>>
>>>> I sure hope I was able to articulate these questions
>>
>>
>> cause
>>
>>>> we really could use a couple of answers here!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks so much,
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.broadbandnet.hardware (More info?)

WPA is supported on Windows XP if you have installed SP1 & "826942 -
Wireless update rollup package for Windows XP is available". That
updates gives Windows XP WPA capabilities.

Some hardware vendors other then just Microsoft do support the WPA
standard at this point. However if you are running OS's prior to
Windows XP you will need to get third party software to enable support
for WPA as the Microsoft Broadband Network Utility (BNU) only adds WEP
support to OS's before XP that are on the supported list.

Also I strongly recommend against installing the BNU on any computer
that doesn't need it to configure WEP (This means all wired computers,
Windows XP computers & Windows 2003 computers {The software isn't
supported on Windows 2003 as it is a server OS & the hardware is
marketed for home users who most likely are not going to need Windows
2003}) as the user may use that instead of the OS & cause new problems
for your wireless networking or it will crash in the case of Windows 2003.

An example of Third party software that enables WPA support For Windows
2000 computers can be found at
http://www.wirelesssecuritycorp.co [...] sistant.do is the
only program I know of that is available without purchasing some other
networking vendors hardware.

anonymous@discussions.microsoft.com wrote:

> Fantastic, Joker! You answered some questions that I
> needed to know but didn't know enough to ask. If you would
> please, a clarification.
>
> Yes, after I posted I realized that MN820 was the kit; we
> purchased 4 so we have 4 of the MN700 and 4 of the MN720.
>
> Cable run: Hmmm. Probably 300 feet from MN700#1 to a
> switch embedded deep in the building. Then from that
> switch, about 150 feet to MN720#2. Also from that
> same "embedded" switch about 200 feet to MN720#3. Finally,
> from MN720#3 to MN720#4 is about 200 feet. Because the
> building sort of wraps around, it is more likely about 400
> feet between the 2 similar channels, that is, I'm using
> channel 1 twice but on the two wireless access points that
> are furthest (farthest? both look funny) apart.
>
> Why do you ask about the distance?
>
> I heard about the uselessness of disabling the SSID
> broadcast, but not about the WEP problem except about how
> packets can be captured and reused because there is no
> sequencing in the encrypted part to identify this hack,
> but we are not doing anything particularly interesting to
> most people so the only security we want is preventing
> people from getting "in" to our network. Don't want them
> messing with the file server sort of thing. I picked WEP
> since the WPA isn't implemented by other vendors yet, at
> least that's what I gather. Maybe I'm wrong.
>
> Ok, here is the clarification I need: It sounds like
> turning off the DHCP server on MN720 #s 2, 3, and 4 is not
> right; I should put the 3 extras into Access Point mode
> turning off the firewall and NAT as well. Right so far? My
> big question is this: Do I need to use the slower WAN port
> to connect MN700#1 to the others? Could I just connect
> numbers 2, 3, and 4 into the LAN using one of the switch
> ports or is that a no-go? If I can't do that, then I'll
> buy 3 more switches (one for each access point) and then
> the wired computers near these points can get full speed
> full duplex bandwidth. THen I'll just plug the WAN of the
> 3 extra access points into the 3 switches to serve the
> wireless users. If I must use the WAN port then my
> alternative will best serve the need for speed geeks. (of
> which I R 1).
>
> Oh, and thanks for the reminder to set the IP outside the
> range of the DHCP served-up-IPs. Duh!
>
> And thanks so much for your thorough assistance. We live
> in such a great time in history! This stuff is so much
> fun!
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>OK First off the Firmware upgrade does fix several issues
>
> including one
>
>>about the DHCP server.
>>
>>BTW the MN-820 is a kit with the MN-700 as a router & the
>
> MN-720
>
>>wireless notebook kit.
>>
>>Since you said what was separating the two MN-700s is 300
>
> Feet I have to
>
>>ask how long is the cable run to the last MN-700?
>>
>>Disabling the broadcasting of the SSID is not a valid
>
> form of wireless
>
>>security because every wireless packet includes the SSID
>
> outside of the
>
>>encrypted part of the packet.
>>
>>WEP has a know flaw in it's original design. If you are
>
> using Windows
>
>>XP computers I'd highly recommend using WPA as it is more
>
> secure.
>
>>When you change the MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 into
>
> bridging mode (AKA
>
>>Access Point mode) it become a switch in the case of the
>
> MN-100 (no
>
>>wireless) or a bridge in the case of the MN-500 & MN-
>
> 700. All 5 port
>
>>work. The only stipulation is that the WAN port is
>
> limited to 10 mbps
>
>>also it is the uplink port. The WAN port will
>
> automatically detect if
>
>>it needs to be a crossover or not while the other 4 ports
>
> do not check
>
>>if they need to do that.
>>
>>A detailed set of directions for using up to three
>
> Microsoft routers is
>
>>just after this line.
>>
>>Broadband modem --> WAN port of MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700
>
> #1
>
>>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1 LAN port #2 --> WAN port of
>
> MN-100, MN-500,
>
>>or MN-700 #2
>>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1 LAN port #3 --> WAN port of
>
> MN-100, MN-500,
>
>>or MN-700 #3 (if available)
>>
>>Make sure all MN-100s & MN-500s are running the latest
>
> firmware 1.11.017
>
>>Make sure all MN-700s are running the latest firmware
>
> 2.01.02.0590
>
>>Now lets look at the setup of each MN-100, MN-500, or MN-
>
> 700:
>
>>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #1
>>router mode
>>LAN IP address at default of 192.168.2.1
>>some SSID (if wireless)
>>some WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>>channel 6 (if wireless)
>>
>>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #2
>>bridge mode
>>LAN IP address at 192.168.2.42, outside of default DHCP
>
> range
>
>>same SSID (if wireless)
>>same WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>>channel 1 (if wireless)
>>
>>MN-100, MN-500, or MN-700 #3 (if available)
>>bridge mode
>>LAN IP address at 192.168.2.43, outside of default DHCP
>
> range
>
>>same SSID (if wireless)
>>same WEP key or WPA key if MN-700 (if wireless)
>>channel 11 (if wireless)
>>
>>
>>If you keep the SSID and WEP key or WPA key (if using the
>
> MN-700) the
>
>>same for all base stations, people will be able to move
>
> between
>
>>locations and get a connection.
>>
>>If you are using WEP on some but WPA on other wireless
>
> routers you will
>
>>have to reconfigure the wireless settings as you switch
>
> between wireless
>
>>networks.
>>
>>You need to select non-overlapping channels for the base
>
> stations to
>
>>prevent interference.
>>
>>Non-overlapping channels have at least 5 channels between
>
> them as 1, 6,
>
>>& 11 do.
>>
>>Channels 1, 6, & 11 are the three non-overlapping
>
> channels.
>
>>There are more combinations if you only need two channels.
>>
>>Ed wrote:
>>
>>
>>>(4) MN-820 device LAN/WLAN configuration
>>>
>>>Here is what we are trying to do:
>>>
>>>cable modem
>>> |
>>>MN-820 as a DHCP server, NAT, firewall, switch,
>>>and wireless access point (channel 1)
>>> |
>>> /
>>> |
>>>MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 6)
>>> |
>>> /
>>> |
>>>MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 11)
>>> |
>>> /
>>> |
>>>MN-820 as a switch and access point (chn 1)
>>>
>>>Regarding the wireless, the two units on channel 1 are
>
> in
>
>>>seperate buildings about 300 feet apart with lots of
>>>concrete and other building materials inbetween. We are
>>>hoping that there is no interference between them.
>>>
>>>The problem we had was that the DHCP server stopped
>>>working when we had it in this four unit configuration.
>>>Two devices works okay.
>>>
>>>There is a firmware upgrade that has not yet been
>
> applied.
>
>>>Does it correct anything with the DHCP server cutting
>
> out?
>
>>>It cut out on us one time with the 2 device config but
>
> a
>
>>>reset corrected it.
>>>
>>>Also, I want to be sure that I'm setting these up
>>>correctly.
>>>
>>>Regarding the wireless, we believe we understand the
>>>parameters okay. Choosing not to use MAC ID filtering
>
> or
>
>>>worring about broadcasting the SSID, we are using a 128
>>>bit WEP password for security.
>>>
>>>But I'm confused about 2 things:
>>>
>>>Since we want to use the 3 additional devices as both
>>>wireless access points and as a wired LAN switch, I
>>>thought that changing the base station mode to "Access
>>>Point" might stop the wired switch/hub from working.
>
> (I'm
>
>>>not able to get onto the premises to test things out
>
> but
>
>>>have to rely on info from various sources and remotely
>>>direct people via phone to configure these.)
>>>
>>>SO, what I did was to simply have them turn off the
>
> DHCP
>
>>>server in the 3 additional units. This config param
>
> works
>
>>>when using two units.
>>>
>>>So the FIRST question is: Does the wired LAN switch
>
> still
>
>>>work if I have the 3 additional units put into
>
> the "Base
>
>>>Station Access Point" mode?
>>>
>>>The SECOND question I have is this: The WLAN socket on
>
> the
>
>>>MN820 connects to the modem for the first device. But
>
> what
>
>>>is the function/usage of this socket for the 3
>
> additional
>
>>>devices? In other words, (perhaps depending on the
>
> answer
>
>>>to my first question), Does the CAT-5 cable coming from
>>>the first unit plug into the WLAN socket of the second
>>>unit or do we just use one of the 4 LAN sockets?
>>>
>>>I sure hope I was able to articulate these questions
>
> cause
>
>>>we really could use a couple of answers here!
>>>
>>>Thanks so much,
>>>Ed
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>.
>>

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.broadbandnet.hardware (More info?)

Better yet, get the forthcoming Windows XP Sp2 update.

It makes setting up your wireless network even easier (and it bundles all
the latest in WPA support).


--
Jason Tsang - Microsoft MVP

Find out about the MS MVP Program -
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/default.aspx

"joker" <no-spam@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:uzfimpOfEHA.1724@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> WPA is supported on Windows XP if you have installed SP1 & "826942 -
> Wireless update rollup package for Windows XP is available". That updates
> gives Windows XP WPA capabilities.
>
> Some hardware vendors other then just Microsoft do support the WPA
> standard at this point. However if you are running OS's prior to Windows
> XP you will need to get third party software to enable support for WPA as
> the Microsoft Broadband Network Utility (BNU) only adds WEP support to
> OS's before XP that are on the supported list.
>
> Also I strongly recommend against installing the BNU on any computer that
> doesn't need it to configure WEP (This means all wired computers, Windows
> XP computers & Windows 2003 computers {The softwa