Hi everybody !!
What Notebook Should I Buy ?

In these days I've received many estimates from high-end laptops providers, but the notebooks that I'm interesting in are only the following ones:

- DELL XPS M1710
- SANTECH M2910 ( internationally known as -> CLEVO M570U )

..and it's very hard to make a choice...

Probably you don't know the Santech brand, but the SANTECH M2910 is based on an ODM barebone, named CLEVO M570U -> http://www.clevo.com.tw/products/M570U.asp

Unfortunately, there are no thermal design analysis that compare these two laptops..

I'd have to use the DELL XPS M1710 with a T7600G processor or a Santech M2910 with a T7600 (that's why only DELL Inc. provides a Merom T7600G CPU...) .. for the rest of configuration I will use a GeForce 7950GTX (that I will problably overclock ...

But the advantage of the Santech products are:

1) the possibility of very cheap future upgrades with new CPUs, graphics card etc.. by using components provided by Santech without to lose anything about warranty/guarantee...
2) possibility to make a RAID 0 or 1 (thanks to two internal hard disk drives)
3) it's available in Italy (yes, infact DELL Italy doesn't provide the XPS M1710 laptop... why ??? )

Also, the Santech customer support is excellent, just 48 days max. to solve any hardware problem.. It's very very near or equal to the DELL support performance.. (hearing from all italian Santech customers in many forums..)

So, could you please help me (and a lot of people) to choose into these laptops.. We can buy one laptop for about 2900 €uro (3.760 USD)..

**********************************
These are the specs for about 3.760 $:

SANTECH M2910 --- ( CLEVO M570U )

# Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo T7600 2,33GHz (4 MB L2 cache, 667Mhz FSB)
# Display 17" WUXGA 1.920x1.200 Glare Type (220 nits)
# Graphics card: NVIDIA GeForce Go 7950GTX 512Mb GDDR3
# RAM 2 Gb DDR II 667MHz (2x1Gb) (Dual Channel) (Up to 4 Gb)
# HDD 1x100=100 Gb 7200 RPM S.ATA (the new Hitachi 7K100)
# (Possible RAID 0/1 Sata with 2 HDD 7200 RPM = Transfer Rate 629*2 = 1258 Mbits/sec. max)
# Burner: DVD Double Layer 8X (DVD+/-RW+R9) (it is an external slim if you choose RAID )
# Wireless (802.11a/b/g 54 Mbps)
# Bluetooth 2.0 Module
# 4 x USB 2.0
# WebCam 1.3 MP e Bluetooth 2.0 Integrati
# Battery: 8 cells (lithium)
# Chassis: Alluminium and ABS
# Networking: Wireless LAN (802.11a/b/g 54 Mbps), Bluetooth 2.0 Module, LAN 10/100/1000
# Porte: 4 x USB 2.0, Realtek HD 7.1 audio, 1 x external VGA (with adapter), 1 x Audio in, 1 x Microphone, 1 x S/PDIF digital, 1 x RJ-11 modem 56 Kbps V.90/V.92, 1 x RJ-45 LAN, 1 x TV-out connector S-Video, 1 x TV-in (only with internal TV Tuner), 1 x Card Reader 7in1 (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MMC/RSMMC/SD/Mini SD), 1 x FireWire IEEE 1394 (Controller Texas Instruments), 1 x DVI-I, 1 x Serial Port, 1 x Express Card (Controller Texas Instruments), 1 x WebCam Integrata 1.3 MP, 1 x TV Tuner Analogico/Digitale (Optional)
# Dimensions: 397x294x44 cm
# Weight: from 3,58 Kg without battery (4 Kg with battery)
# Warranty: 2 Year door-to-door (48 days maximum waiting)

for other specs:-> http://www.santech.it/notebook/M2910.htm


DELL XPS M1710

# Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo T7600G 2,33GHz (4 MB L2 cache, 667Mhz FSB)
# Display: 17’’ WUXGA (1920x1200) UltraSharp with TrueLife (260 nits)
# Graphics card: Nvidia GeForce 7950GTX (512 MB GDDR3)
# RAM 2 Gb DDR II 667MHz (2x1Gb) (Dual Channel) (Up to 4 Gb)
# Hard Disk: 100GB (7200RPM SATA)
# Masterizzatore DVD Double Layer 8X (DVD+/-RW+R9)
# Networking: Dell Wireless 1500 Draft 802.11n Dual-Band Wireless Mini-Card, for Core 2 Processors, Bluetooth, Modem 56k
# Ports: IEEE 1394 a 4-pin, 6-USB 2.0 (Universal Serial Bus), RJ11 Modem, 1 DVI, 1 VGA, 1 S-Video, Component Video e S/PDIF, 5-in-1 memory card reader, hack for microphone and headsets, RJ45 Ethernet
# input: Keyboard QWERTY (English version)
# Battery: 9 cells (lithium)
# Chassis: Aluminium with reinforces in magnesium alloy
# Dimensions: 39,4x28,8x4,22 cm
# Weight: 4 Kg with 9 cells battery
# Warranty: 1-Year (standard) with possible extension...


There is also a discussion on the most important italian PC hardware website..
http://www.hwupgrade.it/forum/showthread.php?t=1397577
please visit it and if you a little bit understand the italian language you can also post there in english.. we'll be very happy and honor to hear about your opinion/help to find a possible true winner in these two high-end/enthusiast 17 inches laptops...

I can soon say that in the italian thread the main problem seems to be to analyze the best thermal design... For example I had no found any detailed thermal design analysis about the DELL XPS M1710...
For the Santech M2910 is impossible to find this bench because it's not yet much famous outside European Union or Italy...
Maybe, by googling "CLEVO M570U" should be more simple to have results about thermal design on that laptop... but until today, we've found nothing...
...the best thing would be a scientific comparative analysis of this two laptops with a TomsHardware.com style !!! But it will remain a dream for many people...

For now, THANKS very much for any Your help !!

>Byez<

First off, I would avoid RAID. If one HDD fails, you are totally sunk. All data is lost(I know this is true with RAID 0, not sure for RAID 1). Dell also underclocks their 7950 to avoid heat issues (I believe most companies do the same).

For comparison look at this review: KN Executioner vs Alienware
The Executioner in the review is based off the Clevo/Santech, I believe(atleast they look similar).

If you are mostly going to be in Italy, then buy the Santech. If you purchase the Dell somewhere else and then go to Italy, you won't get Dell support(at least not the XPS support).

I think the Santech looks like the better laptop.

I agree with lost on the RAID point, plus you lose the internal DVD-ROM. I personally own an Executioner, and I have nothing but good things to say about it. It is based off the same chassis (clevo 575u) but it has a lot of features and support that only K|N offers. Such as the GPU heatsink mods that Mark (owner and system builder for K|N) does so that the 7950GTX doesn’t fry itself. He even encourages you to overclock the CPU, and will add extra cooling for free if you simply tell him that you plan on overclocking. I could go on and on about this, but instead I'll just give you the site and let you check it out for yourself. I think you'll find they're truly awesome machines.


www.killernotebooks.com

Hello Guys !!
Thanks very much for your advice !!

I'm trying to find info and pictures about Clevo M570U's CPU and GPU heatsinks.. and (if available) the same ones about the DELL XPS M1710...

Anyway I've contacted Clevo for more informations about thermal design compared with the XPS M1710 design, I hope they will be so kind to reply... I'll post...

Thanks again for your help and see u soon here !!

>Byez<

Ps. About the boutiques the killernote.. is great, but there is also Flawlesscomputers with very amazing prices and an excellent pre/post service..

With K|N, you get so much more for your money though. Thats a plain and simple fact. Dell underclocks their GPUs to try and deal with the heat issues associated with the 7950GTX. K|N replaces the the stock heatsink and thermal tape with a crazy modded copper heatsink and AS5. You can't simply compare price, because you're not getting nearly the same thing. Anyone who owns an Executioner can tell you that it is worth every penny and then some. You should at least give them a little research time.

Techware labs review: http://www.techwarelabs.com/review [...] ndex.shtml

THG review: http://www.geardigest.com/2006/10/ [...] index.html

More info about the heatsinks (be sure to scroll down a bit for more pics): http://www.guruofgaming.com/module [...] sc&start=0

I just bought a brand new XPS M1710 last week in the UK for £1,435 delivered. Specs....

2.16 GHz
2 GB 667 MHz
120 GB 5,400 rpm
7950 GTX
Bluetooth
MCE + Vista free upgrade
3 years onsite warranty

I've specced up the equivalent, as near as I can, on the KN Executioner and the price is $3498 with delivery. At today's exchange rates that's about £1,777 so significantly more expensive than the Dell. Plus, as an import, I'd have to add duty and VAT. I'm not sure what the duty would come to but VAT is 17.5% so that's £2088 and I've still got duty to add. I'm not sure on what basis the Executioner is supposed to be cheaper than the Dell but it looks way more expensive to me.

Well, the thing that most people are saying is to buy a KN. This was not my point. I was using the Executioner as an example of what the Santech would be and likely perform like. YOu are, however correct that it would be more expensive to buy one. In the US, the KN when spec'd similarly to the Dell is actually cheaper for the performance you get.

The Dell is $3101 and the KN is $3164. Yes the KN is slightly more expensive, but its 7950 is not underclocked, like the XPS', and Mark's customer service far surpasses Dell's.
The only problem is, neither the KN or the XPS is sold in Italy, which is where the guy seemed to be either located or traveling to. My recommendation to him was to get the Santech because he will have the customer support and it will perform as well as the XPS. If he is located in Italy then it would make no sense to buy the Dell or the KN somewhere else and ship it to his location where he won't be given support without paying large amounts of money to Dell.

Hi !! Yeah you're definetely right.. but DELL offers an international warranty, so you can transfer it also from US to Italy, or better from UK/France to Italy... (But many people is waiting for buying it directly from DELL Italy..)

The Santech prices are very high because of very low competition in Italy.. Just 2 players are reselling CLEVO (Santech.it and dpctech.net)..
I've found flawlesscomputers in the U.S. and they are an amazing support thanks to an Italian company partner... But probably flawlesscomp.. does not modd the laptop like KN, so IMHO the XPS would be remain the best choice also without consider the T7600G@3,16GHz that I think help the GPU's downclock problem...

About Thermal design I'm hearing that XPS is less noisy than CLEVO M570U and the different thermal design it would be a little bit more efficient than CLEVO... There are no comparison about that.. I hope Toms can help us...

Thanks very much and see u soon !!
Bye

Dell price is better than kn (first of all warranty).

The Geffo7950GTXGo from Dell isn't underclocked, and, on the net, you can simply find some other users with score egual and better than kn on 3dmk05 and 3dmk06.

I'm not sure what you're smoking... but K|N has one of the best warrenties out there. As for importing notebooks to Italy, I must have missed that part on my first read through. Given the choice between Dell and Santech I would definitely pick the Santech. I've had a few close friends try to deal with Dell support, and I wouldn't wish that on even my worst enemies...

Totalli wrong:
1) Santech warranty is good, but Dell warranty is better.
Could K|N provide on site next business day support? No.
2) Dell 7950GTXGo isn't underclocked
Could you provide "real" core and memory frequencies?

Do you seriously think that Dell is going to come to your house and fix your XPS next day? I think what you're talking about is the warranty they offer large businesses, which isn't remotely relevant this case.

"With XPS, you'll not only get help when you need it, but get a rapid, accurate response. We offer:
Priority 24/7 access to our XPS phone queue, staffed by a group of XPS-trained technicians
An online support site is loaded with valuable information including user manuals, troubleshooting guides, hints and tips
Access to a support rep via online chat, 24 hours a day, seven days a week"

Where in that (streight from Dell's website) do you see "we'll send a tech right over to help you out!" All I see is "you're going to have to sit on hold in a BS phone queue like everyone else."

You are completely wrong; take a look at the standard warranty that came with xps and with all dell notebook and dell desktop :

ON SITE NEXT BUSINESS DAY



Take a look at this page:
http://www.dell.com/content/produc [...] l=en&s=dhs

1 Year At Home Service included: it means 1 year on site next business day.

I own a Dell Inspiron 9300 with 3 Year OnSite Next Business Day; i can assure to you that when you call Dell Support they came next business day with the solution (a new harddisk, a new motherboard, a new GPU).