Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Hello

My daughter's Palm m130 wouldn't turn on or reset. I put it in the
charger overnight then tried soft reset. The screen turned on but it
was immediately obvious that it had been wet. It won't move past the
first "Use stylus to tap...." screen, but neither will it turn off.
I've searched the ng and realise that I shouldn't have turned it on at
all (but I didn't realise it had been wet - I just thought the battery
had discharged completely).

Now I can't turn it off and the Palm m130 has no obvious way of being
disassembled. Soft reset button just causes same screen to appear ....
do I just leave it out of the cradle and let it run down again? Is
there a secret way of turning it off or disassembling? There is
obviously still some water in it and am hoping to dry it out and
salvage the machine but I understand the possiblity of wrecking the
screen now I've turned it on while it is still damp.

Is there any hope?

Deb

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

AS long as it was fresh water I'd leave in the sun to help evaportate the
water. I'd suggest putting it in a warm oven but I don't know how that
would effect the LCD and batteries. When its dry try again. LCD's can be
temporarily effected by the sun but they come back when they cool down. I
would probably put it in the sun LCD down.

On 27 Jun 2004 14:12:52 -0700, djb <djaneb@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hello
>
> My daughter's Palm m130 wouldn't turn on or reset. I put it in the
> charger overnight then tried soft reset. The screen turned on but it
> was immediately obvious that it had been wet. It won't move past the
> first "Use stylus to tap...." screen, but neither will it turn off.
> I've searched the ng and realise that I shouldn't have turned it on at
> all (but I didn't realise it had been wet - I just thought the battery
> had discharged completely).
>
> Now I can't turn it off and the Palm m130 has no obvious way of being
> disassembled. Soft reset button just causes same screen to appear ....
> do I just leave it out of the cradle and let it run down again? Is
> there a secret way of turning it off or disassembling? There is
> obviously still some water in it and am hoping to dry it out and
> salvage the machine but I understand the possiblity of wrecking the
> screen now I've turned it on while it is still damp.
>
> Is there any hope?
>
> Deb



--
_____________
Thank a veteran

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2004-06-27, George Fragos <fragos@earthlink.net> wrote:
> AS long as it was fresh water I'd leave in the sun to help evaportate the
> water ...

Contrariwise, you could leave it in front of an air conditioner.
AC's dehumidify, so it would be in a constant stream of dry, cool
air.
--
Carl Fink carl@fink.to
Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading
http://www.jabootu.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Talcum powder.

Oh...

>Now I can't turn it off and the Palm m130 has no obvious way of being
>disassembled. Soft reset button just causes same screen to appear ....
>do I just leave it out of the cradle and let it run down again? Is
>there a secret way of turning it off or disassembling? There is
>obviously still some water in it and am hoping to dry it out and
>salvage the machine but I understand the possiblity of wrecking the
>screen now I've turned it on while it is still damp.

Let it run down, keeping it in a *warm*, dry, well-ventilated place
(NOT in front of an A/C as someone else suggested) until every last
bit of water has dried, then try recharging it.

(Sorry for the opening remark, but I just couldn't resist. :-) Hope
all goes well with your unit.)


--
SALMON DAY - The experience of spending an entire day swimming
upstream only to get screwed and die in the end.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2004-06-28, Charles Hawtrey <chawtrey@hotpop.com> wrote:

> Let it run down, keeping it in a *warm*, dry, well-ventilated place
> (NOT in front of an A/C as someone else suggested) ...

Why do you say that?
--
Carl Fink carl@fink.to
Jabootu's Minister of Proofreading
http://www.jabootu.com

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Carl Fink wrote:

> On 2004-06-28, Charles Hawtrey <chawtrey@hotpop.com> wrote:

>>Let it run down, keeping it in a *warm*, dry, well-ventilated place
>>(NOT in front of an A/C as someone else suggested) ...

> Why do you say that?

Probably because warm air can dissolve much more water vapor in
it than cool air can. (Which is why you have dew in the morning
when it's cool rather than in the heat of the day, etc.) Also,
if the device itself is relatively warm, the water molecules will
have more energy and therefore a greater chance of making the jump
to the gaseous phase, which means evaporation will happen quicker.

On the other hand, air conditioners do dehumidify, and lower
humidity will increase the rate of evaporation, so it's not
clear that placing it in front of the A/C is automaticaly a
bad thing. It depends on how cold the A/C is and how warm,
dry, and well-ventilated the warm, dry, and well-ventilated
place is.

If you can't do low humidity or slightly (slightly!) elevated
temperatures, I think lots of air flow is a reasonable substitute.
For one thing, as water evaporates, the temperature of the surface
will drop, but more air flow will tend to pull the temperature to
that of the ambient air faster. Also, I bet it will reduce the
partial pressure that is present due to water vapor near the surface
because you are whisking away the water vapor quickly.

Or if you know anyone who has a vacuum chamber, put it in there and
slowly drop it down to the strongest vacuum you can achieve. The
thing will be dried out in no time that way. In a vacuum, water
boils at room temperature. :-)

Your most practical option, assuming you think you can do it without
causing damage to the device, is to disassemble it and let it dry
that way.

- Logan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

chawtrey@hotpop.com (Charles Hawtrey) wrote in message news:<40e07a50.39044031@news.individual.net>...

> >Now I can't turn it off and the Palm m130 has no obvious way of being
> >disassembled.
>
> Let it run down, keeping it in a *warm*, dry, well-ventilated place
> (NOT in front of an A/C as someone else suggested) until every last
> bit of water has dried, then try recharging it.

Well, it has started making strange noises and turning itself on and
off. The screen is obviously drying out but there is some strange
shading now. The worst thing is that the power switch doesn't work -
it is taking ages to run down but I will just leave it off cradle and
hope for the best. It's winter here so it's in a warmed room.

Very funny the way it seems to have a life of it's own now - little
sounds and on and off and every so often going into a made loop
through zillions of screens at once then going off again.

Not funny that it may not survive, but giving Palms to teenagers is
always a risk.

Many thanks

Deb

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Thank you - as I posted elsewhere a warm dry room is aiding its very
strange and noisy recovery, though I don't hold out much hope for a
total cure.

Still, I am amazed at how impervious to water damage they appear to
be.

Thanks for your advice.

Deb

"George Fragos" <fragos@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<opr990v4w0hmcrd6@silverpda>...
> AS long as it was fresh water I'd leave in the sun to help evaportate the
> water. I'd suggest putting it in a warm oven but I don't know how that
> would effect the LCD and batteries. When its dry try again. LCD's can be
> temporarily effected by the sun but they come back when they cool down. I
> would probably put it in the sun LCD down.
>
> On 27 Jun 2004 14:12:52 -0700, djb <djaneb@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Hello
> >
> > My daughter's Palm m130 wouldn't turn on or reset. I put it in the
> > charger overnight then tried soft reset. The screen turned on but it
> > was immediately obvious that it had been wet.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 28 Jun 2004 04:14:12 -0700, djaneb@yahoo.com (djb) wrote:

>chawtrey@hotpop.com (Charles Hawtrey) wrote in message news:<40e07a50.39044031@news.individual.net>...
>
>> >Now I can't turn it off and the Palm m130 has no obvious way of being
>> >disassembled.
>>
>> Let it run down, keeping it in a *warm*, dry, well-ventilated place
>> (NOT in front of an A/C as someone else suggested) until every last
>> bit of water has dried, then try recharging it.
>
>Well, it has started making strange noises and turning itself on and
>off. The screen is obviously drying out but there is some strange
>shading now. The worst thing is that the power switch doesn't work -
>it is taking ages to run down but I will just leave it off cradle and
>hope for the best. It's winter here so it's in a warmed room.
>
>Very funny the way it seems to have a life of it's own now - little
>sounds and on and off and every so often going into a made loop
>through zillions of screens at once then going off again.
>
>Not funny that it may not survive, but giving Palms to teenagers is
>always a risk.
>
>Many thanks
>
>Deb

FYI, I had a Sony Clie NR-70V that got totally soaked by a sprinkler.
I took it apart and let it dry completely. I had some odd shadings on
the screen for quite some time, but they eventually faded away.

You really should take it apart so it will dry completely. Here are
instructions on how to do it:

http://tinyurl.com/2alpt
--
Mike Koenecke
to e-mail, change domain to "alum.haverford.edu"

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

This is one reason I like replaceable batteries. When my Palm IIIxe fell
out of by shirt pocket into a bucket of water, I quickly removed the
batteries. After it dried it was ready for a hot sync and was good as knew.
When much later, I had to replace it for other reasons, I bought one of the
last PDAs that used replaceables (SONY SL-10)
--
Peace,
BobJ

"Mike Koenecke" <mkoenecke@spamhole.com> wrote in message
news:fn50e01ij88gpgioh4l19r2h55a9rur5a1@4ax.com...
> On 28 Jun 2004 04:14:12 -0700, djaneb@yahoo.com (djb) wrote:
>
> >chawtrey@hotpop.com (Charles Hawtrey) wrote in message
news:<40e07a50.39044031@news.individual.net>...
> >
> >> >Now I can't turn it off and the Palm m130 has no obvious way of being
> >> >disassembled.
> >>

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

If you have a gas oven with a pilot light, put it in there. The pilot
light will produce enough low dry heat to dry it out in a day or so.
Just don't forget it's in there and try to use the oven!

Eric

Logan Shaw <lshaw-usenet@austin.rr.com> wrote in message news:<MOQDc.19452$OX2.3327@fe2.texas.rr.com>...
> Carl Fink wrote:
>
> > On 2004-06-28, Charles Hawtrey <chawtrey@hotpop.com> wrote:
>
> >>Let it run down, keeping it in a *warm*, dry, well-ventilated place
> >>(NOT in front of an A/C as someone else suggested) ...
>
> > Why do you say that?
>
> Probably because warm air can dissolve much more water vapor in
> it than cool air can. (Which is why you have dew in the morning
> when it's cool rather than in the heat of the day, etc.) Also,
> if the device itself is relatively warm, the water molecules will
> have more energy and therefore a greater chance of making the jump
> to the gaseous phase, which means evaporation will happen quicker.
>
> On the other hand, air conditioners do dehumidify, and lower
> humidity will increase the rate of evaporation, so it's not
> clear that placing it in front of the A/C is automaticaly a
> bad thing. It depends on how cold the A/C is and how warm,
> dry, and well-ventilated the warm, dry, and well-ventilated
> place is.
>
> If you can't do low humidity or slightly (slightly!) elevated
> temperatures, I think lots of air flow is a reasonable substitute.
> For one thing, as water evaporates, the temperature of the surface
> will drop, but more air flow will tend to pull the temperature to
> that of the ambient air faster. Also, I bet it will reduce the
> partial pressure that is present due to water vapor near the surface
> because you are whisking away the water vapor quickly.
>
> Or if you know anyone who has a vacuum chamber, put it in there and
> slowly drop it down to the strongest vacuum you can achieve. The
> thing will be dried out in no time that way. In a vacuum, water
> boils at room temperature. :-)
>
> Your most practical option, assuming you think you can do it without
> causing damage to the device, is to disassemble it and let it dry
> that way.
>
> - Logan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 15:32:16 GMT, "Marilyn and Bob"
<privacy@nospam.please> wrote:

>This is one reason I like replaceable batteries. When my Palm IIIxe fell
>out of by shirt pocket into a bucket of water, I quickly removed the
>batteries. After it dried it was ready for a hot sync and was good as knew.
>When much later, I had to replace it for other reasons, I bought one of the
>last PDAs that used replaceables (SONY SL-10)

What I can't figure out is: why can't these things have lithium ion
batteries in the same form factor as, say, two or four AAA's? So you
could use alkalines if you wanted, or as an alternative. And you could
replace them really easily.

I know what the answer actually is: the manufacturers want these
things to have a limited useful life, and they want it to be expensive
and difficult to replace the batteries. Perhaps another Handspring
will pop up and create something targeted toward consumer wishes,
though it's really unlikely.
--
Mike Koenecke
to e-mail, change domain to "alum.haverford.edu"

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Mike Koenecke wrote:
> What I can't figure out is: why can't these things have lithium ion
> batteries in the same form factor as, say, two or four AAA's? So you
> could use alkalines if you wanted, or as an alternative. And you could
> replace them really easily.
>
> I know what the answer actually is: the manufacturers want these
> things to have a limited useful life,

Well, it's not just that. Mass-produced electronics design is all
about looking at your design and seeing if there is some component
that you could substitute that would save you 0.5 cents per unit.
Probably a lithium battery with a wire and a plug is going to be
cheaper than a battery with contacts plus a socket with contacts
plus its wire and plug that goes into the circuit board. And
maybe even cheaper by 5 or 10 cents. When you're talking about
manufacturing, say 250,000 units, cutting the price by 10 cents
means saving the company $25,000.

That's not to say a removable battery isn't a feature that's worth
more than 10 cents (plus markup, so more like 50 cents or a dollar).
It might very well be. But companies that try to maximize profit
are inclined to put in only those features that will make a
difference in your purchasing decision. If having a fixed battery
isn't a deal-breaker for anyone, the feature won't make it into
the product.

- Logan

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:00:20 GMT, Mike Koenecke wrote:

> What I can't figure out is: why can't these things have lithium ion
> batteries in the same form factor as, say, two or four AAA's? So you
> could use alkalines if you wanted, or as an alternative. And you could
> replace them really easily.

They can and did, at least with the late Handera 330. It used
either 4 AAAs or a LiIon battery pack that could be changed in
seconds - no need to send the unit back to Handera for replacement.
This didn't add to its size as it had the same dimensions as their
previous model, the TRGPro, which was the same size as the IIIx.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"BillB" <rainbose@earthlink.newt> wrote in message
newsul0e0huduodtmdlvqmgrhvqfag5o07gnr@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:00:20 GMT, Mike Koenecke wrote:
>
> > What I can't figure out is: why can't these things have lithium ion
> > batteries in the same form factor as, say, two or four AAA's? So you
> > could use alkalines if you wanted, or as an alternative. And you could
> > replace them really easily.
>
> They can and did, at least with the late Handera 330. It used
> either 4 AAAs or a LiIon battery pack that could be changed in
> seconds - no need to send the unit back to Handera for replacement.
> This didn't add to its size as it had the same dimensions as their
> previous model, the TRGPro, which was the same size as the IIIx.
>

Yes - but where are they now? - not in the production of PDA's anymore?
I wish that the manufacturers would make units that gave us a choice of
power, but that half cent a unit talks, the consumer doesn't.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 20:24:54 GMT, ClevelandTech wrote:

> I wish that the manufacturers would make units that gave us a choice of
> power, but that half cent a unit talks, the consumer doesn't.

I don't think that half cent per unit talks loudly at all to the
corporate bean counters, at least compared to another factor.
Planned obsolescence. Reduce the average life of handhelds by a
year or more and the additional average profit per device-year might
easily be several thousand times greater than the pennies pinched.
Designing handhelds with non-user-serviceable batteries is a big
factor in encouraging rapid turnover. Apple indirectly stated this
with their original policy concerning iPods whose batteries failed.