Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Yesterday I got a message on my phone, that told me to that avoid having my
phone service cut off, to call an 800 number immediately.

Having paid my bill two weeks before on line, I figured I better call and
see whats going on.

I find myself talking to someone with heavily accented English who starts
asking questions from a script, including asking how I intended to pay and
what my credit card number was. Spooked, I asked what country are you in?
"We are not permitted to give our location out, I can only give the call
center ID". I told her then sorry I am not allowed to give my credit card
number to foreignors outside of the US and hung up.

I called *2, and after the usual 3 minute hold, spoke to someone with clear,
unscripted Southern, who checked my record (the on line payment had gone
AWOL[future reference: write down on line payment confirmation number]) and
offered to take my payment on the phone - for a $5 a fee. After venting some
frustration about the on line AWOL payment, the rep kindly agreed to waive
the fee. (I also asked about the 800 number and the Indians(?) on it, and
was told yes, that was Sprint Financial Services).

Moral of the story: If you get a message from Sprint to call 800-808-1336
to pay your bill, you can quickly talk to someone who probably makes $5 a
day and give them your social security number and credit card numbers and
its free. But if you want to talk to an American, dial *2 and be prepared
to pay $5.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Frank Thomas <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yesterday I got a message on my phone, that told me to that avoid
> having my phone service cut off, to call an 800 number immediately.
> Having paid my bill two weeks before on line, I figured I better call
> and see whats going on.
>
> I find myself talking to someone with heavily accented English who
> starts asking questions from a script, including asking how I
> intended to pay and what my credit card number was. Spooked, I asked
> what country are you in? "We are not permitted to give our location
> out, I can only give the call center ID". I told her then sorry I am
> not allowed to give my credit card number to foreignors outside of
> the US and hung up.

Your attitude sounds a little paranoid, but I'm interested in how you
became the way that you are.

When you travel outside the US, do/will you NOT use credit cards? If so,
why not? With the exception of AMEX traveler's checks, they're safer than
any other form of payment, and assuming you're in a "westernized" country,
they're far more convenient than anything else, except cash, maybe.

When you pay for something in a 'sit-down' restaurant, do you give your CC
to the waiter and feel safe as he walks away with it, out of your sight?

> I called *2, and after the usual 3 minute hold, spoke to someone with
> clear, unscripted Southern, who checked my record (the on line
> payment had gone AWOL[future reference: write down on line payment
> confirmation number]) and offered to take my payment on the phone -
> for a $5 a fee. After venting some frustration about the on line AWOL
> payment, the rep kindly agreed to waive the fee. (I also asked about
> the 800 number and the Indians(?) on it, and was told yes, that was
> Sprint Financial Services).

I worked for SPCS Collections for several months. The $5 fee is scripted.
If you don't ask for it, you get fired. There are conditions, however,
that the caller can satisfy which will allow the Collections rep to drop
the $5 fee, and you obviously satisfied those.

> Moral of the story: If you get a message from Sprint to call
> 800-808-1336 to pay your bill, you can quickly talk to someone who
> probably makes $5 a day and give them your social security number and
> credit card numbers and its free. But if you want to talk to an
> American, dial *2 and be prepared to pay $5.

I worked for SPCS Collections for several months, and the payment via *2
has ALWAYS been $5. This is nothing new. It's how SPCS pays the
Collections reps and still allows you to purchase a subsidized phone with
a good, cheap plan.

When you interact with a human being in a business, the only way they get
paid is a)tacking on a fee for 'human' attention, or b)building the cost
of the 'human attention' into their product. Why is 'a' more offensive
than 'b'?


Kevin M.
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

"Kevin M." <youwish@imaspammer.org> wrote in message
news:i2_Zc.1681$aW5.1493@fed1read07...
........................
> Your attitude sounds a little paranoid, but I'm interested in how you
> became the way that you are.
>
> When you travel outside the US, do/will you NOT use credit cards? If so,
> why not? With the exception of AMEX traveler's checks, they're safer than
> any other form of payment, and assuming you're in a "westernized" country,
> they're far more convenient than anything else, except cash, maybe.
>
> When you pay for something in a 'sit-down' restaurant, do you give your CC
> to the waiter and feel safe as he walks away with it, out of your sight

Answer is yes I do use credit cards outside the US, and I have had a credit
card stolen overseas. Luckily did not accrue a loss.

Its ALOT different with a call center then a waiter. All the waiter has is
your credit card number. The call center has name, address, phone number,
social security number. The potential for large scale identity theft in
countries without the skills and resources to prosecute identity theft
crimes (after all, the victims would not even be citizens) is in my opinion
great.

Eight years ago before outsource was a word (and before identity theft was a
word), we were working with foreign subcontractors. I've been over yonder
and did some training with them (where I had my credit card stolen). They
are nice hard working people that happen to live in very substandard
housing and get paid about $5 to $7 a day. They are happy to have a job.
They got bills to pay, kids to put through school, inlaws to take care of,
doctors and hospitals, just like we do. Thing is, as time goes by though,
they wonder why they get $7 a day instead of $7 an hour. And they are
sitting on a gold mine of personal identification information. In my view,
sending highly personal and sensitive US customer data overseas to people
like that, however nice and grateful they are for the work, is a major
liability, any reasonable person can see that.

In our firm, absolutely ZERO customer information goes overseas, no names,.
no phones, addresses, other IDs, and absolutely no mission critical detailed
design either. Grunt work , off peak overload (they work while you sleep) is
what your foreign subs are good at. Sprint has other ideas it seems and
more lawyers then we do and I guess is willing to the roll dice with the
security of their customer's identity to save a few nickels.

(The thing that kills me with an outsourcing is that we have been doing it a
long time, and its really not that cheap. Sure the labor is cheap, but you
gotta package it so that they can work on it, when they are done it has to
be reviewed, periodically you have to do training missions over there.
There is some built in inefficiency that offsets what they save. They only
reason we still do it is not to save money but to take advantage of the time
difference to keep production rolling 24 hours. )



> I worked for SPCS Collections for several months. The $5 fee is scripted.
> If you don't ask for it, you get fired. There are conditions, however,
> that the caller can satisfy which will allow the Collections rep to drop
> the $5 fee, and you obviously satisfied those.

Thanks for the insight.

> When you interact with a human being in a business, the only way they get
> paid is a)tacking on a fee for 'human' attention, or b)building the cost
> of the 'human attention' into their product. Why is 'a' more offensive
> than 'b'?
>

Good point. The answer is that in our business we learned early on people
hate being nickled and dimed to death. Give clients a cheap price up front
and then bill them for every phone call, mileage, postage stamp etc., for a
detailed invoice, statment, they get pretty pissed off. Give them a fair up
front lump sum cost that includes all normal anticipated costs and they love
you. You got to sell quality and completeness of service.

Anyway, thanks for your insight into Sprint collections, if I have to call
again I hope I get to talk to you.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 06:10:23 -0700, "Kevin M." <youwish@imaspammer.org>
wrote:

>Frank Thomas <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Yesterday I got a message on my phone, that told me to that avoid
>> having my phone service cut off, to call an 800 number immediately.
>> Having paid my bill two weeks before on line, I figured I better call
>> and see whats going on.
>>
>> I find myself talking to someone with heavily accented English who
>> starts asking questions from a script, including asking how I
>> intended to pay and what my credit card number was. Spooked, I asked
>> what country are you in? "We are not permitted to give our location
>> out, I can only give the call center ID". I told her then sorry I am
>> not allowed to give my credit card number to foreignors outside of
>> the US and hung up.
>
>Your attitude sounds a little paranoid, but I'm interested in how you
>became the way that you are.
>
This person had made his payment. He gets a notice to call a number
and they ask for his credit card number. When he asks for where the
call center is, they refuse to tell him. I would be suspicious too.
He did exactly the right hting by hanging up and making a call to a
number where he can be sure he is talking to a Sprint representative.

THere are call centers in foreign countries and there are also
companies that contract out to prisons for the same function.

You can never be too careful when someone unsolicited contacts you and
wants private info.

I think that he did exactly the right thing.


>When you travel outside the US, do/will you NOT use credit cards? If so,
>why not? With the exception of AMEX traveler's checks, they're safer than
>any other form of payment, and assuming you're in a "westernized" country,
>they're far more convenient than anything else, except cash, maybe.
>
>When you pay for something in a 'sit-down' restaurant, do you give your CC
>to the waiter and feel safe as he walks away with it, out of your sight?
>
>> I called *2, and after the usual 3 minute hold, spoke to someone with
>> clear, unscripted Southern, who checked my record (the on line
>> payment had gone AWOL[future reference: write down on line payment
>> confirmation number]) and offered to take my payment on the phone -
>> for a $5 a fee. After venting some frustration about the on line AWOL
>> payment, the rep kindly agreed to waive the fee. (I also asked about
>> the 800 number and the Indians(?) on it, and was told yes, that was
>> Sprint Financial Services).
>
>I worked for SPCS Collections for several months. The $5 fee is scripted.
>If you don't ask for it, you get fired. There are conditions, however,
>that the caller can satisfy which will allow the Collections rep to drop
>the $5 fee, and you obviously satisfied those.
>
>> Moral of the story: If you get a message from Sprint to call
>> 800-808-1336 to pay your bill, you can quickly talk to someone who
>> probably makes $5 a day and give them your social security number and
>> credit card numbers and its free. But if you want to talk to an
>> American, dial *2 and be prepared to pay $5.
>
>I worked for SPCS Collections for several months, and the payment via *2
>has ALWAYS been $5. This is nothing new. It's how SPCS pays the
>Collections reps and still allows you to purchase a subsidized phone with
>a good, cheap plan.
>
>When you interact with a human being in a business, the only way they get
>paid is a)tacking on a fee for 'human' attention, or b)building the cost
>of the 'human attention' into their product. Why is 'a' more offensive
>than 'b'?
>
>
>Kevin M.
>"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
> you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
>"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier
>

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Frank Thomas wrote:

> do use credit cards outside the US, and I have had a credit
> card stolen overseas. Luckily did not accrue a loss.

No, it's not "luckily." You just didn't accrue a loss. Most credit
card companies are very good about that zero liability policy they have.

> Its ALOT different with a call center then a waiter. All the waiter has is
> your credit card number.

Actually, no, he has your credit card, not just the number. A lot can
be done with just the card.

> The call center has name, address, phone number,
> social security number.

....you mean, all the stuff they had anyway, even if you never gave them
your credit card number?

> The potential for large scale identity theft in
> countries without the skills and resources to prosecute identity theft
> crimes (after all, the victims would not even be citizens) is in my opinion
> great.

Well, the real sticking point here is, you don't even know for certain
if you were speaking to a foreign call center. A person with a thick
accent doesn't automatically mean that you're speaking to someone
overseas. We do have immigration, you know.

Second, to be totally honest, there's not a whole lot someone in India
or Russia can really do with your personal information. A car
dealership or electronics store in an overseas country isn't going to be
able to do much with a US social security number, and will probably look
mighty suspiciously upon someone applying for credit using a foreign, US
address.

Overseas, a thief would have much better success with an already
established credit account, a stolen credit card number. But again,
that's where that whole zero liability things comes into play.

> Eight years ago before outsource was a word (and before identity theft was a
> word), we were working with foreign subcontractors. I've been over yonder
> and did some training with them (where I had my credit card stolen). They
> are nice hard working people that happen to live in very substandard
> housing and get paid about $5 to $7 a day. They are happy to have a job.
> They got bills to pay, kids to put through school, inlaws to take care of,
> doctors and hospitals, just like we do. Thing is, as time goes by though,
> they wonder why they get $7 a day instead of $7 an hour.
> And they are
> sitting on a gold mine of personal identification information.

So in other words, you're saying that they're honest, hard working
people, but they're thieves anyway.

> In my view,
> sending highly personal and sensitive US customer data overseas to people
> like that, however nice and grateful they are for the work, is a major
> liability, any reasonable person can see that.

Actually, any reasonable person can see that the possibility for ID
theft is just as bad, if not worse, in the US. Here, people who work
for $5-$7 an hour are often there because their skill level, past work
history, or a criminal record prevents them from getting something
better. The cost of living is much higher, so they're most likely
frequently strapped for cash... and here they are, sitting on a gold
mine of personal identification information, and far easier to open
fraudulent US accounts with US data.

But I guess if they're American and an ex-con, well that's just better
than letting good ol' clean-record Deepak from Calcutta look at your
customer data, right?

> In our firm, absolutely ZERO customer information goes overseas, no names,.
> no phones, addresses, other IDs, and absolutely no mission critical detailed
> design either. Grunt work , off peak overload (they work while you sleep) is
> what your foreign subs are good at. Sprint has other ideas it seems and
> more lawyers then we do and I guess is willing to the roll dice with the
> security of their customer's identity to save a few nickels.

Then perhaps you should vote with your dollars and take your racist
nickels elsewhere?


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Scott wrote:


>>Your attitude sounds a little paranoid, but I'm interested in how you
>>became the way that you are.
>>
>
> This person had made his payment. He gets a notice to call a number
> and they ask for his credit card number. When he asks for where the
> call center is, they refuse to tell him.

Well, I can certainly put everyone's mind at ease. The number this
person cited (800-808-1336) is most certainly a Sprint number. I just
ran the number through SBC's RespOrg ID system, and Sprint
Communications, L.P. is registered as the responsible organization for
this number.


> I would be suspicious too.
> He did exactly the right hting by hanging up and making a call to a
> number where he can be sure he is talking to a Sprint representative.

If you are that suspicious, then yes, that's a good idea. But chances
are, you're already checked the account and seen that your payment
didn't go through, corroborating the message.


--
E-mail fudged to thwart spammers.
Transpose the c's and a's in my e-mail address to reply.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Frank Thomas <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Yesterday I got a message on my phone, that told me to that avoid having my
> phone service cut off, to call an 800 number immediately.
>
> Having paid my bill two weeks before on line, I figured I better call and
> see whats going on.
>
> I find myself talking to someone with heavily accented English who starts
> asking questions from a script, including asking how I intended to pay and
> what my credit card number was. Spooked, I asked what country are you in?
> "We are not permitted to give our location out, I can only give the call
> center ID". I told her then sorry I am not allowed to give my credit card
> number to foreignors outside of the US and hung up.
>
> I called *2, and after the usual 3 minute hold, spoke to someone with clear,
> unscripted Southern, who checked my record (the on line payment had gone
> AWOL[future reference: write down on line payment confirmation number]) and
> offered to take my payment on the phone - for a $5 a fee. After venting some
> frustration about the on line AWOL payment, the rep kindly agreed to waive
> the fee. (I also asked about the 800 number and the Indians(?) on it, and
> was told yes, that was Sprint Financial Services).
>
> Moral of the story: If you get a message from Sprint to call 800-808-1336
> to pay your bill, you can quickly talk to someone who probably makes $5 a
> day and give them your social security number and credit card numbers and
> its free. But if you want to talk to an American, dial *2 and be prepared
> to pay $5.
>

I agree with you 100%! However, don't be fooled into believing that
your social security number and other personal information is not
already floating around the Indian subcontinent in large quantity.
Credit Card approvals are even done through the low budget call centers.
I make a stink about this to every customer service rep [American reps
anyway] when I get a chance, because I want them to report that
companies will lose business because of this. I will pay more for an
a product that doesn't outsource its customer service centers.
Unfortunately, so far, I don't have the option to switch carriers as
several others do it too ...

- --

Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

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Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Frank Thomas <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Its ALOT different with a call center then a waiter. All the waiter has is
> your credit card number. The call center has name, address, phone number,
> social security number. The potential for large scale identity theft in
> countries without the skills and resources to prosecute identity theft
> crimes (after all, the victims would not even be citizens) is in my opinion
> great.
>

I assume you mean the "perpetrators" would not be American citizens ?

> (The thing that kills me with an outsourcing is that we have been doing it a
> long time, and its really not that cheap. Sure the labor is cheap, but you
> gotta package it so that they can work on it, when they are done it has to
> be reviewed, periodically you have to do training missions over there.
> There is some built in inefficiency that offsets what they save. They only
> reason we still do it is not to save money but to take advantage of the time
> difference to keep production rolling 24 hours. )
>

And more often than not, there is an issue with quality. I have yet to
deal with offshore or onshore/nearshore foreign nationals [especially
India] where you get consistantly good quality. I also have to say
that, and this could sound bad, but my experience with Russians has been
superb! But my experience with *shore from India has been hit or miss
with an emphasis on miss. Apparently Dell agrees with me on this.


- --

Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1

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Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Frank Thomas wrote:
> I called *2, and after the usual 3 minute hold, spoke to someone with clear,
> unscripted Southern, who checked my record (the on line payment had gone
> AWOL[future reference: write down on line payment confirmation number]) and
> offered to take my payment on the phone - for a $5 a fee. After venting some
> frustration about the on line AWOL payment, the rep kindly agreed to waive
> the fee. (I also asked about the 800 number and the Indians(?) on it, and
> was told yes, that was Sprint Financial Services).
>
> Moral of the story: If you get a message from Sprint to call 800-808-1336
> to pay your bill, you can quickly talk to someone who probably makes $5 a
> day and give them your social security number and credit card numbers and
> its free. But if you want to talk to an American, dial *2 and be prepared
> to pay $5.

Not necessarily. There were a couple of times at the Mentor, Ohio Sprint store
that I had to talk to an employee to make a payment because the payment machine
was down -- and that normally also costs money. They waived the $5 fee each time.

If you are in a situation like this, just ask them to waive the fee. They
usually will if you were unable to make a payment without talking to a rep or
had a similar problem with an automated payment system.

--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Isaiah Beard wrote:

> Well, I can certainly put everyone's mind at ease. The number this
> person cited (800-808-1336) is most certainly a Sprint number. I just
> ran the number through SBC's RespOrg ID system, and Sprint
> Communications, L.P. is registered as the responsible organization for
> this number.

Means nothing.

That means that Sprint handles calls to the number. It could be Sprint, it
could be United Telephone (if the company even exists anymore and hasn't been
folded back into Sprint), it could be Sprint PCS. *Or it could be a Sprint
customer who routes their tollfree calls through Sprint.*


--
JustThe.net Internet & New Media Services, http://JustThe.net/
Steven J. Sobol, Geek In Charge / 888.480.4NET (4638) / sjsobol@JustThe.net
PGP Key available from your friendly local key server (0xE3AE35ED)
Apple Valley, California Nothing scares me anymore. I have three kids.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

"Frank Thomas" <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:kcZZc.144$KQ5.95@fe25.usenetserver.com...
> Moral of the story: If you get a message from Sprint to call 800-808-1336
> to pay your bill, you can quickly talk to someone who probably makes $5 a
> day and give them your social security number and credit card numbers and
> its free. But if you want to talk to an American, dial *2 and be prepared
> to pay $5.

Or do as I do: have Sprint automatically charge your cell bill to your
credit card. You won't have to talk to anybody. The payment will never
be late. Plus I get a cash rebate from the credit card charges.

--

John Richards

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.sprintpcs (More info?)

Scott <Refused@Refused.com> wrote:
> "Kevin M." <youwish@imaspammer.org> wrote:
>>Frank Thomas <nospam@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> Yesterday I got a message on my phone, that told me to that avoid
>>> having my phone service cut off, to call an 800 number immediately.
>>> Having paid my bill two weeks before on line, I figured I better
>>> call and see whats going on.
>>>
>>> I find myself talking to someone with heavily accented English who
>>> starts asking questions from a script, including asking how I
>>> intended to pay and what my credit card number was. Spooked, I
>>> asked what country are you in? "We are not permitted to give our
>>> location out, I can only give the call center ID". I told her then
>>> sorry I am not allowed to give my credit card number to foreignors
>>> outside of the US and hung up.
>>
>>Your attitude sounds a little paranoid, but I'm interested in how you
>>became the way that you are.
>>
> This person had made his payment. He gets a notice to call a number
> and they ask for his credit card number. When he asks for where the
> call center is, they refuse to tell him. I would be suspicious too.

I take it that you've never worked in a call center. I've managed one.
This is standard operating procedure withing the call center "industry".
Why? Well, you have hundreds of phone reps talking to thousands of
customers every day, and can you just IMAGINE what would happen if a
caller who knew where the call center he just talked to was located
decided to DO SOMETHING? Whoa! ;D

> He did exactly the right thing by hanging up and making a call to a
> number where he can be sure he is talking to a Sprint representative.

Why, EXACTLY?

> There are call centers in foreign countries and there are also
> companies that contract out to prisons for the same function.

So you don't trust people that are/have been in prison? Ok.

> You can never be too careful when someone unsolicited contacts
> you and wants private info.

I think you've going to find that, eventually, you will either have to
change you attitude and accept your company's implicit promoise to
safeguard your data to the best of their ability, or you won't be able to
do detailed business with almost any American company. Sorry, but that's
just the way it's headed.

> I think that he did exactly the right thing.

Again, why, EXACTLY?


Kevin M.
"Know your enemy, and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
"Contentment... Complacency... Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier