Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

I just went to the www.palmone.com and they seem to have
very significantly de-positioned the Tungsten T2, to the extent
that, if you were new to Palm, you probably wouldn't even
know it existed! Click onto Tungsten and it lists the E, the T3
and the C. Go to the comparison matrix and again no T2.
On the UK site the same, but then if you click on the "More
Tungstens" link it shows the T2 and (get this) the T as well,
i.e. the T2 is listed along with a model we all know to be
discontinued; is this discontinuation or the T2 by association?

All this has me thinking that the that maybe the E2 is closer
to release than I thought. Others have been saying that the
E2 would now not appear before October-ish (the next
common launch window for Palm) because, if Palm was going
to launch a new Tungsten, then surely they would have done
it at the same time as the Zire just for efficiencies of the publicity
and release process. I saw the logic in this argument and was
all set to buy a T2, but now I'm not so sure. Moving the T2 to
such a low billing on the web sites must surely imply something.

- Julian

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On Sat, 01 May 2004 16:21:33 +0100, Julian wrote:

> Moving the T2 to such a low billing on the web sites must surely imply
> something.

Sure... that they like making money, and they probably view having a
concise, uncomplicated product lineup to be one way to help them make
money.

> if you were new to Palm, you probably wouldn't even know [the Tungsten
> T2] existed!

Exactly!

On a related note, did you ever shop for a Macintosh before Steve Jobs
took over and simplified Apple's product line?

(Of course, now most of their non-Apple B&M stores are complicating the
matter again by selling various obsolete models of iMacs etc. alongside
the new models...)

--
Lenroc

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Lenroc" <lenroc@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com> wrote in message newsan.2004.05.01.17.05.15.16000@NOSPAMFORYOU.hotmail.com...
> On Sat, 01 May 2004 16:21:33 +0100, Julian wrote:
>
> > Moving the T2 to such a low billing on the web sites must surely imply
> > something.
>
> Sure... that they like making money, and they probably view having a
> concise, uncomplicated product lineup to be one way to help them make
> money.
>
> > if you were new to Palm, you probably wouldn't even know [the Tungsten
> > T2] existed!
>
> Exactly!

I see your point, and you might well be right (although I hope not).

To continue the debate though, would de-emphasising the T2 increase
Palm's revenue? Sure, they will force some people who would otherwise
have bought the T2 upwards to the T3, but won't they also force some
of those sales down to the E? If the T2 didn't exist then I would have
a really hard choice right now and I think that, on balance, I might well
go for an E + Bluetooth card instead of a T3. The poor battery life on
the T3 plus my concerns about how much the slider would annoy me
on a 320 x 480 model are very finely balanced vs my desire for built
in bluetooth.

- Julian

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

It is simple. The M505 was replaced by the M515, which in turn was replaced by
the M550/Tungsten T which in turn was replaced by the Tungsten T2 which in turn
was replaced by the Tungsten T3 which in turn will also be replaced. Using your
reasoning that Palm should have kept all discontinued items prominently on
their website, where is the original Palm Pilot and its successors?

If you want a T2 go to Office Depot, Office Max, Staples, etc. as I still see
them in dust covered boxes at those locations. I have an m550/Tungsten T that I
will probably replace with a T3 when the prices drop a little more.
Dennis B. Swaney
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"ROMAD" <romad@aol.com.zz> wrote in message news:20040501141122.19642.00000095@mb-m03.aol.com...
> It is simple. The M505 was replaced by the M515, which in turn was replaced by
> the M550/Tungsten T which in turn was replaced by the Tungsten T2 which in turn
> was replaced by the Tungsten T3 which in turn will also be replaced. Using your
> reasoning that Palm should have kept all discontinued items prominently on
> their website, where is the original Palm Pilot and its successors?

Fair enough, your reply made me realise that there were an
unspoken assumptions in my thinking, and hence in my original post.
I guess that I assumed that Palm would explicitly mention somewhere
when they discontinue a model. I haven't seen any mention of the T2
being discontinued which is why I was surprised at how it is presented
on the web site.

I'm not sure your example above is 100% valid. The M515 did genuinely
replace the M505 in that in the press release of the M515 they announced
the discontinuation of the M505. The same is also true of the V -> Vx
replacement. One cannot say that the T3 replaced the T2 in exactly that
way, i.e. discontinue the old model when the new one comes out.

Hotpaw4 on the palminfocenter.com discussion boards made an interesting
observation re the car industry where manufacturers often re-package
essentially the same car with different bodywork and trim to create different
models. The question then raised was what if Palm took the new Zire 72
innards, removed the camera, and put it into a Tungsten E casing to create
an E2. That would give an E2 that has the same RAM as the E but a slightly
faster CPU and Bluetooth, but not the 320x480 screen as rumoured
earlier this year. To me this would make a lot of sense because an E2
with this spec wouldn't kill T3 sales like an E2 with a 320x480 screen
would, but it would kill T2 sales stone dead which would make sense
of the de-emphasis on the T2. Also, such a modest tweak to the E
specification would be very consistent with Palm's previous V->Vx,
505->515 and T1->T2 upgrades.

- Julian

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

Julian <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> I just went to the www.palmone.com and they seem to have very
> significantly de-positioned the Tungsten T2, to the extent that, if
> you were new to Palm, you probably wouldn't even know it existed!
> Click onto Tungsten and it lists the E, the T3 and the C. Go to the
> comparison matrix and again no T2.

It should be clear that companies have limited production capabilites
and once they introduce a new product the machinery on production
lines have to be reused. At that point active advertising for the old
product is stopped and they sell out whatever they have in stock of
the old product. Sometimes they also need the stock space quickly and
sell the older ones at a bargain price.

Quite normal behaviour, isn't it?

It should be pretty clear that the T3 is replacing the T2 as business
top model; while the TC is special with its keyboard.

> All this has me thinking that the that maybe the E2 is closer to
> release than I thought.

I don't think the T2->T3 change has anything to do with an E2. After
all, they have just introduced a Z72 with better attributes than the
TE.

> I saw the logic in this argument and was all set to buy a T2, but
> now I'm not so sure. Moving the T2 to such a low billing on the web
> sites must surely imply something.

What are you waiting for? Do you believe the T2 price will suddenly
drop? You will certainly not consider the T2 if you want to have the
newest model; in this case you will have to wait until first PalmOS6
models appear.

Regards,

Guido

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"Guido Ostkamp" <gueltig-bis-15-05-2004@nurfuerspam.de> wrote in message news:mr1fm1-o63.ln1@320076385420-0001.dialin.t-online.de...
> Julian <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:
> > I saw the logic in this argument and was all set to buy a T2, but
> > now I'm not so sure. Moving the T2 to such a low billing on the web
> > sites must surely imply something.
>
> What are you waiting for? Do you believe the T2 price will suddenly
> drop? You will certainly not consider the T2 if you want to have the
> newest model; in this case you will have to wait until first PalmOS6
> models appear.

I'm waiting for a non-slider Palm with built in bluetooth.

Julian

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

On 2-May-2004, "Julian" <nospam@nospam.com> Flushed this thought from his brain
to the screen::

> I'm waiting for a non-slider Palm with built in bluetooth.
>
> Julian

Can you say "Zire 72"?

WyreNut
--
You can't shake hands with a clenched fist! -- Indira Ghandi

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

In article news:<zGelc.7511$y86.2125@nurse.blueyonder.net>, Julian
wrote:
> I'm waiting for a non-slider Palm with built in bluetooth.

I'll second that!

[Oh, and with no camera - the Z72 is not the model I've been
waiting for.]

Cheers,
Daniel.

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"WyreNut" <Me@home.biz> wrote in message news:5kflc.19155$I%1.1369197@attbi_s51...
>
> On 2-May-2004, "Julian" <nospam@nospam.com> Flushed this thought from his brain
> to the screen::
>
> > I'm waiting for a non-slider Palm with built in bluetooth.
> >
> > Julian
>
> Can you say "Zire 72"?

Yes. I realised as soon as I hit the send button on my last post that I
forgot one other key criteria, it has to be as close to Palm V form
factor as possible. I have always carried my Palm in my wallet in a
billfold slim wallet case, if I can't do that then it is unusable for me.
The very first thing I do whenever going into a shop to check out a
new Palm or Sony, before even turning the thing on, is to detach my
palm from my wallet and try the new device for size; if it doesn't fit
then I know I won't buy it.

Having said the above, I should re-visit the Zire 72 because it hasn't
made its way to the shops in the UK yet, at least none near me, so
I haven't tried the wallet test. Looking at the size vs the T3 (which
does just pass my test), it looks like the Zire 72 might pass too. That
just leaves me with the frustration of knowing that it has a camera
that I would never use.

I'm afraid that what I still really want is a Zire 72 without the camera
and slightly smaller, i.e. pretty much a Tungsten E with bluetooth. I've
been a Palm owner since the first Palm V and my m515 is still going
OK so I think I'll sit on the sidelines just until the end of the summer
and see if they do refresh the Tungsten lineup. I'm not too worried
about 320x480 screen right now because I worry that they'll need
another year or so to get useable battery life out of those so I'm
happy to leave that one until my 2006 upgrade.

Thanks to everyone that did point out the different perspectives to
my post. In retrospect I did make 2 and 2 add up to 5, a case of
seeing what one wants to see.... still hoping for an E2 though!

Julian

Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

>I guess that I assumed that Palm would explicitly mention somewhere
>when they discontinue a model. I haven't seen any mention of the T2
>being discontinued which is why I was surprised at how it is presented
>on the web site.
>
>I'm not sure your example above is 100% valid. The M515 did genuinely
>replace the M505 in that in the press release of the M515 they announced
>the discontinuation of the M505. The same is also true of the V -> Vx
>replacement. One cannot say that the T3 replaced the T2 in exactly that
>way, i.e. discontinue the old model when the new one comes out.

Palm is pretty weird lately. IIRC, they never announced that the original TT
was being replaced by the T2; they just released the T2 a few months after the
the original. Even after the T3 was out I would still see all three on display
at the various retailers. Now I only see the T3 and T2, but the T2s are
disappearing.
Dennis B. Swaney
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Archived from groups: comp.sys.palmtops.pilot (More info?)

"ROMAD" <romad@aol.com.zz> wrote in message news:20040503122438.29140.00000761@mb-m13.aol.com...
> Palm is pretty weird lately. IIRC, they never announced that the original TT
> was being replaced by the T2; they just released the T2 a few months after the
> the original. Even after the T3 was out I would still see all three on display
> at the various retailers. Now I only see the T3 and T2, but the T2s are
> disappearing.

Actually, it's even wierder than that. It's a long time ago now so I can't find
or remember the original source but Palm did explicitly announce the
discontinuation of the T in one of their press releases (maybe it was when
they launched the T3). I remember this distinctly because the evening I read
whatever press release it was in I was meeting up with a friend for a drink.
She had bought a Tungsten T fairly recently and I said to her "what do our
Palm's have in common?" (I have an m515); the answer was of course that
they were both discontinued models. I wouldn't have made that observation
if I hadn't just read a Palm release that explicitly announced the discontinuation
of the T.

Where it gets wierd though is, despite the above (which was some time ago),
I know of at least one UK online store (www.expansys.com) that still
advertises and sells the T alongside the T2 and the T3. Wierd indeed.

Julian