Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

Oh...and a parting gift:

http://www.broadbandreports.com/sh [...] 5#14370254


--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Dunno what his problem is.

I just got a HR10-250 free after rebate, and today my Waiver was applied
so I get Fox 5 HD NYC on 88, despite living in the Center of Houston, TX.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jack Zwick <jackzwick@yahoo.com> wrote in news:jackzwick-
8253A0.14435717092005@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com:

> I just got a HR10-250 free after rebate, and today my Waiver was applied
> so I get Fox 5 HD NYC on 88, despite living in the Center of Houston, TX.

And if you think it is DRM-free, you're even dumber than I thought.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Howard (stile99@email.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> Jack Zwick <jackzwick@yahoo.com> wrote in news:jackzwick-
> 8253A0.14435717092005@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com:
>
> > I just got a HR10-250 free after rebate, and today my Waiver was applied
> > so I get Fox 5 HD NYC on 88, despite living in the Center of Houston, TX.
>
> And if you think it is DRM-free, you're even dumber than I thought.

Even if it has DRM, it doesn't have the same issues as the SA TiVos. I
recorded every one of the Fox programs that people had "problems" with, and
they were all without any "protection".

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Sherm [...] riever.gif

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in
news:MPG.1d9665bc672573e9989fc7@news.nabs.net:

> Even if it has DRM, it doesn't have the same issues as the SA TiVos. I
> recorded every one of the Fox programs that people had "problems" with,
> and they were all without any "protection".

That's because not everybody had "problems", nor were these "problems"
restricted only to any particular type of TiVo. Or for that matter, TiVo
at all...which was kind of the point.

For example, my SA TiVo had no "problem" at all, but in following the link,
it seems at least one TV card did. Since TiVo doesn't market TV cards for
computers, it's really hard for people to continue to claim it is a "TiVo"
problem.

Hence, my post. Anyone who is dumping TiVo for alternate DVRs...So long,
losers. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. And if you think your
replacement will be free of any problems...

Well, good luck with that.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Howard wrote:
> Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in
> news:MPG.1d9665bc672573e9989fc7@news.nabs.net:
>
>
>>Even if it has DRM, it doesn't have the same issues as the SA TiVos. I
>>recorded every one of the Fox programs that people had "problems" with,
>>and they were all without any "protection".
>
>
> That's because not everybody had "problems", nor were these "problems"
> restricted only to any particular type of TiVo. Or for that matter, TiVo
> at all...which was kind of the point.
>
> For example, my SA TiVo had no "problem" at all, but in following the link,
> it seems at least one TV card did. Since TiVo doesn't market TV cards for
> computers, it's really hard for people to continue to claim it is a "TiVo"
> problem.
>
> Hence, my post. Anyone who is dumping TiVo for alternate DVRs...So long,
> losers. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. And if you think your
> replacement will be free of any problems...
>
> Well, good luck with that.
>

Yeah, I think Howard's OP was a bit unclear. It took a minute for me to
see what he was driving at, but he's right, DRM is pervasive. It's
there because the broadcasters and MPAA folks are forcing it into *all*
devices, not just Tivo. They do it by blackmail, either add it in, or
they won't allow you to display their content. Either they won't
deliver it to you, or they'll sue the pants off you.

The only possible way around the DRM is home-brew systems that are too
small potato to sue. However don't be surprised if the DRM gets
packaged into the hardware eventually. If that happens, even the MythTV
and Freevo folks are going to be up the proverbial creek since they
could do whatever they want with the software, if the Tuner card won't
allow specific digital streams to be recorded, then there's little they
can do.

Randy S.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Jack Zwick" <jackzwick@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:jackzwick-8253A0.14435717092005@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> Dunno what his problem is.
>
> I just got a HR10-250 free after rebate, and today my Waiver was applied
> so I get Fox 5 HD NYC on 88, despite living in the Center of Houston, TX.

No surprise there. Fox27 Houston is a Fox O&O affiliate. A waiver should
not be necessary.

If your local CBS, ABC, and NBC affiliates are network owned, you should
get the New York HD feed for those networks.

http://www.directv.com/see/landing/abc_hd.html
You should also be receiving the NY WABC HD channel.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Randy S. (rswitt@NOSPAM.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> > Hence, my post. Anyone who is dumping TiVo for alternate DVRs...So long,
> > losers. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. And if you think your
> > replacement will be free of any problems...
> >
> > Well, good luck with that.
> >
>
> Yeah, I think Howard's OP was a bit unclear.

Yeah, I missed the point, too.

I thought he was dumping TiVo to go to something else.

> If that happens, even the MythTV
> and Freevo folks are going to be up the proverbial creek since they
> could do whatever they want with the software, if the Tuner card won't
> allow specific digital streams to be recorded, then there's little they
> can do.

It'll be a long time before an HDTV tuner card has any hardware encryption
on it. It's just too expensive to do for no reason.

The thing missing from the PCI HDTV cards is the "TiVo" part...wishlists,
etc. But, every PCI HDTV card has a way to add recordings to their
"To Do" list without knowing squat about the software other than "put the
following data format into a file and run this helper program". So, a
TiVo-like program could do all the heavy lifting, then 15 minutes before a
recording is to start, it would add the recording to the card's "To Do"
list.

--
Jeff Rife |
| http://www.nabs.net/Cartoons/Dilbe [...] aining.gif

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <Xns96D49FFE2C90Fstile@129.250.170.91>,
Howard <stile99@email.com> wrote:

> Jack Zwick <jackzwick@yahoo.com> wrote in news:jackzwick-
> 8253A0.14435717092005@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com:
>
> > I just got a HR10-250 free after rebate, and today my Waiver was applied
> > so I get Fox 5 HD NYC on 88, despite living in the Center of Houston, TX.
>
> And if you think it is DRM-free, you're even dumber than I thought.

When DRM comes, if you think Cable wont lead the way then you're the
dumbest of them all.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in
news:MPG.1d969528fd00adbb989fca@news.nabs.net:

> Randy S. (rswitt@NOSPAM.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>> Yeah, I think Howard's OP was a bit unclear.
>
> Yeah, I missed the point, too.
>
> I thought he was dumping TiVo to go to something else.

I tend to be a little on the obscure side (quite on purpose). Perhaps in
this instance I strayed a bit TOO far into obscure-land, but I thought
given my recent posts on the topic and the link provided, there were enough
pieces to the puzzle.

> It'll be a long time before an HDTV tuner card has any hardware
> encryption on it. It's just too expensive to do for no reason.

Trust me, "Do it or we'll sue your ass back to the stone age" is generally
accepted to be reason enough.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jack Zwick <jackzwick@yahoo.com> wrote in
news:jackzwick-F72880.21320217092005@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com:

> When DRM comes, if you think Cable wont lead the way then you're the
> dumbest of them all.

Ummm...DRM is already here.

And satellite didn't just lead the way, they did the surveying, graded the
ground, installed the road and paved it.

--
Minister of All Things Digital & Electronic, and Holder of Past Knowledge
stile99@email.com. Cabal# 24601-fnord | Sleep is irrelevant.
I speak for no one but myself, and |Caffeine will be assimilated.
no one else speaks for me. O- | Decaf is futile.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

you troll

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

In article <Ol3Xe.2959$5n4.1828@newssvr29.news.prodigy.net>,
"Jack Ak" <akjack@excite.com> wrote:

>
> "Jack Zwick" <jackzwick@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:jackzwick-8253A0.14435717092005@newsclstr02.news.prodigy.com...
> > Dunno what his problem is.
> >
> > I just got a HR10-250 free after rebate, and today my Waiver was applied
> > so I get Fox 5 HD NYC on 88, despite living in the Center of Houston, TX.
>
> No surprise there. Fox27 Houston is a Fox O&O affiliate. A waiver should
> not be necessary.

It's Fox26 in Houston, last station in Houston to broadcast in Stereo.

>
> If your local CBS, ABC, and NBC affiliates are network owned, you should
> get the New York HD feed for those networks.
>
> http://www.directv.com/see/landing/abc_hd.html
> You should also be receiving the NY WABC HD channel.

I agree but they insisted FCC rules required the waiver process.

So soon I'll have ABC too, and have it denoted as a Channel I receive
for that day.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Howard (stile99@email.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> > It'll be a long time before an HDTV tuner card has any hardware
> > encryption on it. It's just too expensive to do for no reason.
>
> Trust me, "Do it or we'll sue your ass back to the stone age" is generally
> accepted to be reason enough.

It would be if there was some reason (like a law) behind it. But, with
the broadcast flag in limbo, it'll be a very long time before such cards
have to have hardware encryption.

One of the more interesting things about the broadcast flag is that anybody
who uses Windows Media Center Edition to record HDTV will be in for a real
shock if the broadcast flag ever comes back. Despite the fact that Microsoft
software encrypts/can encrypt the recorded files, this is *not* good enough
to make the system broadcast flag compliant. Microsoft's only choice would
be to stop recording shows where the broadcast flag is set until the HDTV
card is replaced by one with hardware encryption.

--
Jeff Rife | "Tragedy struck today in Sector Nine as rebel
| terrorists blew up the Death Star, killing
| thousands. The Rebel Alliance, a fringe group
| of anti-Empire fanatics, has claimed
| responsibility for the terrorist act.
| Fortunately, Lord Vader escaped without harm.
| Our hearts go out to the families of the
| victims."
| -- "NewsRadio"

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jack Zwick wrote:
> you troll

Hmm, this thread seems to be attracting obscure posts. I'm not getting
the reasoning for Jack's at all. Unless he's *purposefully* trying to
be obscure.

Randy S.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jeff Rife wrote:
> Howard (stile99@email.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>
>>>It'll be a long time before an HDTV tuner card has any hardware
>>>encryption on it. It's just too expensive to do for no reason.
>>
>>Trust me, "Do it or we'll sue your ass back to the stone age" is generally
>>accepted to be reason enough.
>
>
> It would be if there was some reason (like a law) behind it. But, with
> the broadcast flag in limbo, it'll be a very long time before such cards
> have to have hardware encryption.

Well, I sort of see your point. Requiring broadcast restriction in
hardware is a bit more difficult then requiring it in software, because
they aren't actually doing the recording. It might be a tougher road to
go without a law, like you say. I'm not sure there wouldn't be some
underhanded, monopolistic way to do it, but I can't think of it right now.

> One of the more interesting things about the broadcast flag is that anybody
> who uses Windows Media Center Edition to record HDTV will be in for a real
> shock if the broadcast flag ever comes back. Despite the fact that Microsoft
> software encrypts/can encrypt the recorded files, this is *not* good enough
> to make the system broadcast flag compliant. Microsoft's only choice would
> be to stop recording shows where the broadcast flag is set until the HDTV
> card is replaced by one with hardware encryption.

You're saying they couldn't choose to store a program for 7 days or
less, so they'd have to block recording it entirely in the first place?

Randy S.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> The only possible way around the DRM is

Recognize that it's just TELEVISION for pity's sake and get on with your
lives.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Randy S. (rswitt@NOSPAM.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> > One of the more interesting things about the broadcast flag is that anybody
> > who uses Windows Media Center Edition to record HDTV will be in for a real
> > shock if the broadcast flag ever comes back. Despite the fact that Microsoft
> > software encrypts/can encrypt the recorded files, this is *not* good enough
> > to make the system broadcast flag compliant. Microsoft's only choice would
> > be to stop recording shows where the broadcast flag is set until the HDTV
> > card is replaced by one with hardware encryption.
>
> You're saying they couldn't choose to store a program for 7 days or
> less, so they'd have to block recording it entirely in the first place?

Yep, because the BF ruling part that talks about accepted means of protection
says the data cannot be unencrypted over any public bus. PCI is a public
bus, and it's trivial to write a "wedge" driver that sits between the real
driver and the rest of Windows and just dump everything that gets sent over
the bus.

--
Jeff Rife | "Grab a shovel...I'm only one skull
| short of a Mouseketeer reunion."
|
| -- Bender, "Futurama"