Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

I've now had my TiVo running for a couple of weeks (since my UTV started
to die; tuner overheat problem) and in day-to-day use I've noticed a few
deficiencies. Maybe some of the more experienced TiVo users around here
could explain how to work around these issues... please?

In the "To Do List"... the UTV equivalent ("Upcoming Recordings" ) would
display a brief summary of the episode as you move the cursor over the
recording. With TiVo you have to press SELECT to see the same
information, and then exit that page. This makes deciding if you want
to keep a program on the record list a more tedious task with TiVo.
Related to this, UTV has a "bulk unselect" page where you can tickbox
all the items you want to remove and then finally click "do not record".
This short description also appears in the Now Playing ("My Shows" )
lists and so on, on the UTV.

In the "Season Pass Manager"... the UTV equivalents (it seperates out
auto-records - wishlist - and normal records - season passes) list the
number of episodes to be recorded on the summary page (eg "Stargate SG1
(4)" would mean 4 episodes are scheduled to be recorded). To get this
on the TiVo you need to select the episode and - for SP only; not for
Wishlist items - it will tell you how many upcoming recordings...
however this is not a count of how many programs are to be recorded!
You have to select even further and look at what episodes have
tick-marks next to them. [ Plus to TiVo; you can record something you'd
previously deselected easier, here ].

Inconsisent UI... in most places right-arrow will select the item...
except in season pass manager where it "grabs" the item... Ugh!!
Horribly annoying.

Fast Forward mode... the UTV seems to be "cleaner" and easier to read -
eg music titles on VH1 Classic, while forwarding at >>> speed. I had to
do the SPS30S to get 30second skip, which I can't live without :-) TiVo
has the 15 minute skip mode, which UTV doesn't, but UTV has the 300speed
forward mode (sometimes buggy, though).

A variation of the Daily Show issue... VH1 Classic doesn't properly flag
shows (We Are The 80s, Pop Show etc, and repeat most shows twice a day -
the seem to have a 12 hour schedule) but I can't find a way to tell the
system to record showings between certain times (I can't say "0800-0900"
since the show times change between days, sometimes). UTV only
recorded +/- 2 hours of the theoretical scheduled time, and this seemed
to work a lot better. I'd miss the occaisional showing (no loss, in
this case!) but with TiVo I always get duplicates.

A minor thing, but useful.. the UTV has a blue light on front that
lights up to let you know that new programs have appeared in the My
Shows list since you last looked at it. This means I can just glance at
the box when I get home from work and see if anything new has been
recorded :-)

Scrolling through the guide and creating a season pass, you end up back
at the beginning of the guide again, and not where you left it.
Annoying!

[ Talking of the guide; in grid mode is it easy to skip forward in
3 hour or 12 hour increments? I know you can do it quickly on the List
Mode view, but in Grid mode I can only skip by 1.5 hour increments ]

The UTV has a nice habit of putting the current output into a small
window (similar to a PIP window) when doing a lot of stuff - eg looking
at the "My Shows" list, scrolling the guide and so on. This is so much
nicer than TiVo full screen displays.

The UTV "Channels I receive" equivalent will use the small-window
function to display the channel you are browsing, alongside a fuller
channel description (eg "260 WE Womens Entertainment" rather than just
"260 WE WE" - although I have noticed TiVo has _some_ description on
some channels!) making it easier to determine if you want to keep a
channel or not.

A potential TiVo bug... I had one tuner doing a recording. The second
tuner was doing a suggestion recording. I'd pressed LiveTV (which
brought up the scheduled recording) and then tried to change channel.
Rather than cancel the suggestion and change channel, it asked me to
cancel the scheduled recording. Ooops. Aborting that, switching tuner,
then change channel worked properly. TiVo should have done this
automatically, cancelling the suggestion rather than asking to interrupt
the scheduled recording.

On the plus side, the 6.2 software on the S2 (Philips DSR708) is a lot
faster than my girlfriends S1 (Phillips) box. I haven't yet seen a
massive slowdown when playing with Season Passes. Good! Not as fast as
UTV, but not too slow as to be annoying :-)

I do think the TiVo is the best DVR currently on the market at the
moment, but I still prefer my old UTV; RIP.

--
Stephen Harris
usenet@spuddy.org
The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Once upon a time, Stephen Harris <usenet@spuddy.org> said:
>In the "To Do List"... the UTV equivalent ("Upcoming Recordings" ) would
>display a brief summary of the episode as you move the cursor over the
>recording. With TiVo you have to press SELECT to see the same
>information, and then exit that page. This makes deciding if you want
>to keep a program on the record list a more tedious task with TiVo.

There is a remote code to get this that was posted here recently IIRC
(similar to the 30 second skip; undocumented, unsupported, but well
known) that does something like that for "Now Playing" - I don't know if
it changes the "To Do List". Also, on a TiVo, once you are in the
screen for a show, you don't have to exit that screen to move up and
down in the list; use the channel up/down buttons to move through the
list.
--
Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 22:49:23 -0400, usenet@spuddy.org (Stephen Harris)
wrote:

> In the "To Do List"... the UTV equivalent ("Upcoming Recordings" ) would
> display a brief summary of the episode as you move the cursor over the
> recording. With TiVo you have to press SELECT to see the same
> information, and then exit that page. This makes deciding if you want
> to keep a program on the record list a more tedious task with TiVo.

Press Select on the first one, then use Channel Down to scroll through
them, to get the same effect. You can also use Clear to delete a recording
from that screen.

> Inconsisent UI... in most places right-arrow will select the item...

But Select always selects the item. If you want to always select, always
use Select. If you want to always do whatever is to the right, always use
RightArrow. Seems consistent to me.

> Scrolling through the guide and creating a season pass, you end up back
> at the beginning of the guide again, and not where you left it.
> Annoying!

I'll agree there. In the very rare case where I use the guide for that, it
should return to where it was.

--
"It is more uplifting to find the beauty, wonder, spirituality, and
reverence in what we can see, than to imagine they only exist in what we
can't see." - hawthorn@sover.net http://www.sover.net/~hawthorn/

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

I miss my UTV as well, mine was running fine but had to switch to TIVO
and it's ok, but it's hard to believe that Microsoft did something
better years before Tivo was popular and yet it didn't survive.

I have a good working shell (good UTV no hard drive) still but soon I
think it will be going out to the trash.

By the way the 30 second skip is set up like this...
Start a recording....
Press Select Play Select 3 0 Select

---TheDoctor

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Frank J. Perricone <hawthorn@sover.net> wrote:
> Press Select on the first one, then use Channel Down to scroll through
> them, to get the same effect. You can also use Clear to delete a recording
> from that screen.

That helps a little, but still slow, since you might only want to check up
on what has been scheduled in the past week and just ignore all the music
selections, for example. With 10 entries per page you can pick out the
Futurama or whatever episodes to look at a look quicker.

> > Inconsisent UI... in most places right-arrow will select the item...

> But Select always selects the item. If you want to always select, always
> use Select. If you want to always do whatever is to the right, always use
> RightArrow. Seems consistent to me.

The problem is that left arrow is used to exit a screen, so it's natural
to leave your hand on the arrow pad and use the right arrow to enter
stuff, especially since it works on many screens.

--
Stephen Harris
usenet@spuddy.org
The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> There is a remote code to get this that was posted here recently IIRC
> (similar to the 30 second skip; undocumented, unsupported, but well
> known) that does something like that for "Now Playing" - I don't know if

Hmm... a googling around says

http://tivo.drosoph.com/

Thumbs Up, Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, 7, 8 -- "DESCRIPTION PREVIEW"

Do it in Now Playing, turns on the "Description Preview" in the Now
Playing List. This allows you to see a short description for each
recording while scrolling through the now playing list.

I'll see if that works on my machine when I get home (the icons don't
list it for a DirecTiVo at all).

That could be very useful!

--
Stephen Harris
usenet@spuddy.org
The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

* Stephen Harris Wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:

> Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> wrote:
>> There is a remote code to get this that was posted here recently
>> IIRC (similar to the 30 second skip; undocumented, unsupported,
>> but well known) that does something like that for "Now Playing" -
>> I don't know if
>
> Hmm... a googling around says
>
> http://tivo.drosoph.com/
>
> Thumbs Up, Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, 7, 8 -- "DESCRIPTION
> PREVIEW"
>
> Do it in Now Playing, turns on the "Description Preview" in the
> Now Playing List. This allows you to see a short description
> for each recording while scrolling through the now playing
> list.
>
> I'll see if that works on my machine when I get home (the icons
> don't list it for a DirecTiVo at all).
>
> That could be very useful!
>

If you are running 6.X version of the DTivo software it will work.


--
David

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Stephen Harris <usenet@spuddy.org> wrote:
> Chris Adams <cmadams@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> > There is a remote code to get this that was posted here recently IIRC
> > (similar to the 30 second skip; undocumented, unsupported, but well
> > known) that does something like that for "Now Playing" - I don't know if

> Thumbs Up, Thumbs Down, Thumbs Up, 7, 8 -- "DESCRIPTION PREVIEW"

> Do it in Now Playing, turns on the "Description Preview" in the Now

Well, that's... interesting! It does a very very nice feature, and
turns on descriptions in the Now Playing list. However, it does
emphasis a problem with the Tivo interface; all the "pretty graphic"
overhead wasting screen space means that the list is restricted to 5
lines. I think I'll keep the option on, simply because it allows me to
pick episodes to play a lot quicker, but it really looks messy.

The data doesn't show in the "To Do list", unfortunately.

I never understood why the Tivo wasted screen display with the animated
top-line graphics... why would I want to see a massive DTV logo, a
massive TiVo logo and an animated "DirecTV" display running behind the
"Now playing" header? Such a waste of screen space!

TiVo animations are "pretty" but wasteful. UTV animations were
functional.

Hmmm... turning this function on seems to make screen updates slower;
scrolling between pages (now more frequent because of less lines per
page) causes a larger period of blankness as the page is refreshed.
Odd!

I think I'll keep the option turned on, but it still reminds me of what
the UTV did better!

The subject line of this thread still holds :-)

--
Stephen Harris
usenet@spuddy.org
The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Stephen Harris (usenet@spuddy.org) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> However, it does
> emphasis a problem with the Tivo interface; all the "pretty graphic"
> overhead wasting screen space means that the list is restricted to 5
> lines.

Those "pretty graphics" are so that the important text will remain in the
"safe area".

--
Jeff Rife | "I have a question that could affect our entire
| relationship...did you kill Coach Mattay?"
| "No!"
| "But, you did dress him up like a woman...?"
| "Yeah."
| "Just checking."
| -- Alex Lambert and Brian Hackett, "Wings"

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:
> Stephen Harris (usenet@spuddy.org) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> > However, it does
> > emphasis a problem with the Tivo interface; all the "pretty graphic"
> > overhead wasting screen space means that the list is restricted to 5
> > lines.

> Those "pretty graphics" are so that the important text will remain in the
> "safe area".

I understand that, but it's way overkill and can be used for other
not-so-important stuff - eg the program descriptions :-)

--
Stephen Harris
usenet@spuddy.org
The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Stephen Harris (usenet@spuddy.org) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> > Those "pretty graphics" are so that the important text will remain in the
> > "safe area".
>
> I understand that, but it's way overkill and can be used for other
> not-so-important stuff - eg the program descriptions :-)

Anything you want the user to see can't be there, though. Even "backdoors"
follow the TiVo UI rules.

It bugs me, too, because my TV has 2-3% overscan, and not the 10-15% that
would be necessary to need such a large safe area. The Fox sports score
bar is really annoying, since there is 2" of space above it on my 38" TV.
It's pretty much right in the middle of the action for me.

--
Jeff Rife | "...the flames began at a prophylactic recycling
| plant, near the edge of the forest..."
|
| -- "WarGames"

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Jeff Rife <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote:
> Stephen Harris (usenet@spuddy.org) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> > > Those "pretty graphics" are so that the important text will remain in the
> > > "safe area".
> >
> > I understand that, but it's way overkill and can be used for other
> > not-so-important stuff - eg the program descriptions :-)

> Anything you want the user to see can't be there, though. Even "backdoors"
> follow the TiVo UI rules.

I think you missed the point of "overkill". The header line and left margin
is way greater than that needed to remain in the safe area.

--
Stephen Harris
usenet@spuddy.org
The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Stephen Harris (usenet@spuddy.org) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> I think you missed the point of "overkill". The header line and left margin
> is way greater than that needed to remain in the safe area.

No, it's just about exactly the safe title area, which is something like
15-20% overscan.

In the normal NPL, the legs on the TiVo icon are inside the safe title
area, but the TV "body" is outside. So, that bar is a little bigger than
necessary, but it's not even a full line of the standard sized text
display more, so they did about as good as they could.

The info at the bottom about the sort mode is way outside the safe title
area.

--
Jeff Rife | "He's an investment banker from Amsterdam.
| Apparently he handles a lot of Bill Gates'
| money, so, don't say anything derogatory
| about the Netherlands or Microsoft."
| "Oh, damn...there goes my opening joke about
| the Dutchman trying to install Windows 95."
| -- Niles and Frasier

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

> In the "To Do List"... the UTV equivalent ("Upcoming Recordings" ) would
> display a brief summary of the episode as you move the cursor over the
> recording. With TiVo you have to press SELECT to see the same
> information, and then exit that page.

Just press channel up/down while looking at the Info page. It'll move to
the next/previous one on the list.

> Inconsisent UI... in most places right-arrow will select the item...
> except in season pass manager where it "grabs" the item...

The selection box shows the > right arrow when it can be used.

> A variation of the Daily Show issue... VH1 Classic doesn't properly flag
> shows (We Are The 80s, Pop Show etc, and repeat most shows twice a day -
> the seem to have a 12 hour schedule)

Complain to the network. There's not a lot any recorder can do when the
network willfully provides deficient data.

> [ Talking of the guide; in grid mode is it easy to skip forward in
> 3 hour or 12 hour increments? I know you can do it quickly on the List
> Mode view, but in Grid mode I can only skip by 1.5 hour increments ]

At least grid mode is faster than it's been before.

> The UTV has a nice habit of putting the current output into a small
> window (similar to a PIP window) when doing a lot of stuff - eg looking
> at the "My Shows" list, scrolling the guide and so on. This is so much
> nicer than TiVo full screen displays.

Get a couple of years older, you'll appreciate BIG TEXT.

> A potential TiVo bug... I had one tuner doing a recording. The second
> tuner was doing a suggestion recording.

Just about everybody turns off the suggestions feature. It's a cool idea
but in practice I've never found it useful.

> I do think the TiVo is the best DVR currently on the market at the
> moment, but I still prefer my old UTV; RIP.

Yeah, apparently it's feature set wasn't enough to sustain the level of
sales needed to survive.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

wkearney99 <wkearney99@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > A variation of the Daily Show issue... VH1 Classic doesn't properly flag
> > shows (We Are The 80s, Pop Show etc, and repeat most shows twice a day -
> > the seem to have a 12 hour schedule)

> Complain to the network. There's not a lot any recorder can do when the
> network willfully provides deficient data.

We need a Season pass with time restrictions. For VH1C something like
"Pop Show between midnight and midday" would solve the problem. I'm sure
a similar restriction for Daily Show would work.

> > [ Talking of the guide; in grid mode is it easy to skip forward in
> > 3 hour or 12 hour increments? I know you can do it quickly on the List
> > Mode view, but in Grid mode I can only skip by 1.5 hour increments ]

> At least grid mode is faster than it's been before.

Yes; the whole series 2 with 6.2 software is a lot faster than a series 1
with 3.1 software!

> Get a couple of years older, you'll appreciate BIG TEXT.

I'll be rich enough then to get a BIG TV... I hope! :-) :-)

> Just about everybody turns off the suggestions feature. It's a cool idea
> but in practice I've never found it useful.

I've been glancing at it, but all it seems to be recording for me now is
the various Star Trek's and Outer Limits. I've watched a few things it
suggested, but am debating whether to turn it off. At least it doesn't
take up any great amounts of real-estate on the now playing list, due to
folders!

> > I do think the TiVo is the best DVR currently on the market at the
> > moment, but I still prefer my old UTV; RIP.

> Yeah, apparently it's feature set wasn't enough to sustain the level of
> sales needed to survive.

Bad advertising and a change in focus by Microsoft didn't help.

--
Stephen Harris
usenet@spuddy.org
The truth is the truth, and opinion just opinion. But what is what?
My employer pays to ignore my opinions; you get to do it for free.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

Randy S. (rswitt@nospam.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
> > Just about everybody turns off the suggestions feature. It's a cool idea
> > but in practice I've never found it useful.
>
> Really!? My impressions are exactly the opposite. The kicker is that
> even if you don't find it useful (which I can certainly accept), it
> really doesn't *hurt* anything.

It makes it quite a bit harder just to watch TV. I don't do it often,
but sometimes I just want the TiVo to stay on the same channel I sat
it on, even though I'm not pressing buttons. It's not important enough
to bother to record (and for things like CNN for breaking news, you can't
really do it anyway, since the program in the guide might end in two
minutes), but I want it there.

Also, if it's recording a suggestion and a scheduled recording (on a
DirecTiVo), it offers to end the recording on the *other* tuner if you
try and change channels. This can be confusing and lead to ending the
wrong recording.

--
Jeff Rife | "...who paved the way for The Alan Parsons'
| Project...which I believe was some sort
| of a hovercraft."
| -- Homer Simpson

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.tivo (More info?)

"Jeff Rife" <wevsr@nabs.net> wrote in message
news:MPG.1d5c0e5e2415124a989ed5@news.nabs.net...
> Randy S. (rswitt@nospam.com) wrote in alt.video.ptv.tivo:
>> > Just about everybody turns off the suggestions feature. It's a cool
>> > idea
>> > but in practice I've never found it useful.
>>
>> Really!? My impressions are exactly the opposite. The kicker is that
>> even if you don't find it useful (which I can certainly accept), it
>> really doesn't *hurt* anything.
>
> It makes it quite a bit harder just to watch TV. I don't do it often,
> but sometimes I just want the TiVo to stay on the same channel I sat
> it on, even though I'm not pressing buttons. It's not important enough
> to bother to record (and for things like CNN for breaking news, you can't
> really do it anyway, since the program in the guide might end in two
> minutes), but I want it there.
>
> Also, if it's recording a suggestion and a scheduled recording (on a
> DirecTiVo), it offers to end the recording on the *other* tuner if you
> try and change channels. This can be confusing and lead to ending the
> wrong recording.
>
> --
> Jeff Rife | "...who paved the way for The Alan Parsons'
> | Project...which I believe was some sort
> | of a hovercraft."
> | -- Homer Simpson
I agree - I hate the suggestions - for all of the above reasons. I know that
some people love them, that it is TiVo's pride and joy and is used to
justify the service charge. But I got fed up with TiVo switching from a
program I was watching live while I was out of the room (typically I watch
live sporting events and news) or asking me permission to change channels so
that it could record a suggestion. It also cluttered up the now playing list
with stuff that I don't care about. Most people I know who are new to TiVo
complain about the junk that gets recorded, and once they understand the
process make a decision on the "goodness" of the feature, many seem to end
up turning it off.