Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

What software would you recommend for streaming captured video from ReplayTV
to computer via wireless network. Have tried using Windows media player and
audio scrambles. Videolan seems to play for a few seconds then "hangs up"
Any ideas? Thanks

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:23:54 -0400, "Dave Robb" <dave-robb@cox.net>
wrote:

>What software would you recommend for streaming captured video from ReplayTV
>to computer via wireless network. Have tried using Windows media player and
>audio scrambles. Videolan seems to play for a few seconds then "hangs up"
>Any ideas? Thanks
>

Wireless is limited in bandwidth and may not work properly for
streaming (especially High Quality). You should copy the whole thing
to the computer (DVArchive works fine) and then play it. VideoLAN
should work OK then.

Of course there's always wired 100mbps ethernet connections.

--
107 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Mark Lloyd wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:23:54 -0400, "Dave Robb" <dave-robb@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>What software would you recommend for streaming captured video from ReplayTV
>>to computer via wireless network. Have tried using Windows media player and
>>audio scrambles. Videolan seems to play for a few seconds then "hangs up"
>>Any ideas? Thanks
>>
>
>
> Wireless is limited in bandwidth and may not work properly for
> streaming (especially High Quality). You should copy the whole thing
> to the computer (DVArchive works fine) and then play it. VideoLAN
> should work OK then.
>
> Of course there's always wired 100mbps ethernet connections.
>

I keep hearing how wireless is bandwidth limited. Using a IBM thinkpad
600e, and among others the speed test at www.wugnet.org I've run many
banwidth tests..... Can't see much difference between wireless (And I'm
using .b) and wired DI-514 router, DWL-650 card, not your best of line
products (in fact as far from best as you can get) about Line speed is
about 1 meg and this house is not radio friendly.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:33:55 GMT, John in Detroit
<Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Mark Lloyd wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:23:54 -0400, "Dave Robb" <dave-robb@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What software would you recommend for streaming captured video from ReplayTV
>>>to computer via wireless network. Have tried using Windows media player and
>>>audio scrambles. Videolan seems to play for a few seconds then "hangs up"
>>>Any ideas? Thanks
>>>
>>
>>
>> Wireless is limited in bandwidth and may not work properly for
>> streaming (especially High Quality). You should copy the whole thing
>> to the computer (DVArchive works fine) and then play it. VideoLAN
>> should work OK then.
>>
>> Of course there's always wired 100mbps ethernet connections.
>>
>
>I keep hearing how wireless is bandwidth limited. Using a IBM thinkpad
>600e, and among others the speed test at www.wugnet.org I've run many
>banwidth tests..... Can't see much difference between wireless (And I'm
>using .b) and wired DI-514 router, DWL-650 card, not your best of line
>products (in fact as far from best as you can get) about Line speed is
>about 1 meg and this house is not radio friendly.

That would be showing the limits of your internet connection (which
wireless is adequate for). Speed test sites will be useless here (and
not even the best way to test internet speed). Use a program like
DUMeter (http://www.dumeter.com/) to measure your actual speeds.
Anyway, streaming requires greater bandwidth that most internet
connections.

BTW, I find nothing at www.wugnet.org

--
106 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

John in Detroit <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:nqf0d.426$Qv5.62@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com:

> Mark Lloyd wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:23:54 -0400, "Dave Robb" <dave-robb@cox.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What software would you recommend for streaming captured video from
>>>ReplayTV to computer via wireless network. Have tried using Windows
>>>media player and audio scrambles. Videolan seems to play for a few
>>>seconds then "hangs up" Any ideas? Thanks
>>>
>>
>>
>> Wireless is limited in bandwidth and may not work properly for
>> streaming (especially High Quality). You should copy the whole thing
>> to the computer (DVArchive works fine) and then play it. VideoLAN
>> should work OK then.
>>
>> Of course there's always wired 100mbps ethernet connections.
>>
>
> I keep hearing how wireless is bandwidth limited. Using a IBM
> thinkpad 600e, and among others the speed test at www.wugnet.org I've
> run many banwidth tests..... Can't see much difference between
> wireless (And I'm using .b) and wired DI-514 router, DWL-650 card,
> not your best of line products (in fact as far from best as you can
> get) about Line speed is about 1 meg and this house is not radio
> friendly.

I assume www.wugnet.org returns a bandwidth test for your internet
connection. Note your cable modem, DSL, or satellite and the link to
your router is the limiting factor. Most home routers allow 100Mb half-
duplex communication and the better do a full-duplex comm.

Compare that to an 802.11b connection with a 100% signal strength which
tops out at 12-14Mbps. Likewise you could use a homeplug connection,
which is rated at 14Mbps --- but not for anything above the lowest
quality recordings.
I have 45xx series machines and I understand the 5xxx use a different
MPEG encryption (specifically for the audio with a switch between
variable bitrates and static bitrates) - so my expeiences will differ
from yours.

My "main" RTV is currently using a HPNA connection - max of 14Mbps.
I can BARELY stream a "standard quality" show from either RTV to another
RTV or to a PC. If I attempt to move through the show I will likely
crash one or the other RTV. Medium and High quality recordings are not
to be attempted.

I have better luck with the other RTV which is hardwired wth 100Mb.
From that RTV I can stream "standard quality" shows to my iBook using a
802.11b and VLC. I can also stream from my hardwired (100Mb) PC running
DVA back to the hardwired RTV shows in strd, medium, and High qualities.

I obviously cannot stream any show from my PC running DVA to my work pc
despite having a OC-12 connection at work; becuase as mentioned in this
case my access from home to the internet (broadband) is my limiting
factor and does not have enough bandwidth to handle even a low quality
stream.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Mark Lloyd wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:33:55 GMT, John in Detroit
> <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Mark Lloyd wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:23:54 -0400, "Dave Robb" <dave-robb@cox.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>What software would you recommend for streaming captured video from ReplayTV
>>>>to computer via wireless network. Have tried using Windows media player and
>>>>audio scrambles. Videolan seems to play for a few seconds then "hangs up"
>>>>Any ideas? Thanks
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Wireless is limited in bandwidth and may not work properly for
>>>streaming (especially High Quality). You should copy the whole thing
>>>to the computer (DVArchive works fine) and then play it. VideoLAN
>>>should work OK then.
>>>
>>>Of course there's always wired 100mbps ethernet connections.
>>>
>>
>>I keep hearing how wireless is bandwidth limited. Using a IBM thinkpad
>>600e, and among others the speed test at www.wugnet.org I've run many
>>banwidth tests..... Can't see much difference between wireless (And I'm
>>using .b) and wired DI-514 router, DWL-650 card, not your best of line
>>products (in fact as far from best as you can get) about Line speed is
>>about 1 meg and this house is not radio friendly.
>
>
> That would be showing the limits of your internet connection (which
> wireless is adequate for). Speed test sites will be useless here (and
> not even the best way to test internet speed). Use a program like
> DUMeter (http://www.dumeter.com/) to measure your actual speeds.
> Anyway, streaming requires greater bandwidth that most internet
> connections.
>
> BTW, I find nothing at www.wugnet.org
>
I get rather good video streams at 300KBPS (1/3 my internet connection
speed) from ABC-news all the time

At least one of my proucts does measure the bit rate when displaying an
MPEG and reports it.... (And of couse that app won't run just now, May
have to re-install it) but it reposts bit rates below my internet
connection speed

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Mark Lloyd wrote:

> That would be showing the limits of your internet connection (which
> wireless is adequate for). Speed test sites will be useless here (and
> not even the best way to test internet speed). Use a program like
> DUMeter (http://www.dumeter.com/) to measure your actual speeds.
> Anyway, streaming requires greater bandwidth that most internet
> connections.
>
> BTW, I find nothing at www.wugnet.org
>

Sorry it's www.wugnet.com (i should know the URL, I bought this laptop
from it's owner)

Oh,,, And I see file transfer rates in the same speed range when
I'm copying off //main via the lan

Let's see. 1 gig (1000/meg) divided by 3600 seconds 277K bytes per
second or about 2.7mbps if I've not misplaced a decmil point

I should note... In my first tests wireless was faster however I've not
been able to reproduce that, Get about a meg a bit per second either
way now

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

John in Detroit <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
news:Eoo0d.2247$RS5.399@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com:

> Mark Lloyd wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:33:55 GMT, John in Detroit
>> <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> That would be showing the limits of your internet connection (which
>> wireless is adequate for). Speed test sites will be useless here (and
>> not even the best way to test internet speed). Use a program like
>> DUMeter (http://www.dumeter.com/) to measure your actual speeds.
>> Anyway, streaming requires greater bandwidth that most internet
>> connections.
>>
>> BTW, I find nothing at www.wugnet.org
>>
> I get rather good video streams at 300KBPS (1/3 my internet connection
> speed) from ABC-news all the time
>
> At least one of my proucts does measure the bit rate when displaying
> an MPEG and reports it.... (And of couse that app won't run just now,
> May have to re-install it) but it reposts bit rates below my internet
> connection speed
>

300KBPS (actually kbps) is naturally less than your broadband
connection. It is also displayed in a window at a much lower resolution
and sound quality (bitrate) than the MPG2 files coming off your RTV.

Please read from the source and search for the keywords of bitrate and
bandwidth (separately) about the v5.x software. Again I have 45xx
series, so mine is different.
http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/r [...] pgrade.asp

Try some basic math:
Take an hour long episode/show. How big is it?
Now figure out how much of that show needs to stream from one side to
other for each minute ( 1/60th ). Do the calculation again to get per
second. There is some additional fudging to deal with Bytes versus bits
(factor of 8) - but that should get you close.

Now realize the theoretical maximum for 100Mb wired line is roughly 70
Mb. Same overhead for slower or wireless.

Fun huh?

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Thanks for the informative discussion. Not usually found in news groups.


"Dave Robb" <dave-robb@cox.net> wrote in message
news:NJ40d.38737$xu6.5258@okepread02...
> What software would you recommend for streaming captured video from
ReplayTV
> to computer via wireless network. Have tried using Windows media player
and
> audio scrambles. Videolan seems to play for a few seconds then "hangs up"
> Any ideas? Thanks
>
>

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:46:28 GMT, John in Detroit
<Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Mark Lloyd wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:33:55 GMT, John in Detroit
>> <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Mark Lloyd wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:23:54 -0400, "Dave Robb" <dave-robb@cox.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>What software would you recommend for streaming captured video from ReplayTV
>>>>>to computer via wireless network. Have tried using Windows media player and
>>>>>audio scrambles. Videolan seems to play for a few seconds then "hangs up"
>>>>>Any ideas? Thanks
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Wireless is limited in bandwidth and may not work properly for
>>>>streaming (especially High Quality). You should copy the whole thing
>>>>to the computer (DVArchive works fine) and then play it. VideoLAN
>>>>should work OK then.
>>>>
>>>>Of course there's always wired 100mbps ethernet connections.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I keep hearing how wireless is bandwidth limited. Using a IBM thinkpad
>>>600e, and among others the speed test at www.wugnet.org I've run many
>>>banwidth tests..... Can't see much difference between wireless (And I'm
>>>using .b) and wired DI-514 router, DWL-650 card, not your best of line
>>>products (in fact as far from best as you can get) about Line speed is
>>>about 1 meg and this house is not radio friendly.
>>
>>
>> That would be showing the limits of your internet connection (which
>> wireless is adequate for). Speed test sites will be useless here (and
>> not even the best way to test internet speed). Use a program like
>> DUMeter (http://www.dumeter.com/) to measure your actual speeds.
>> Anyway, streaming requires greater bandwidth that most internet
>> connections.
>>
>> BTW, I find nothing at www.wugnet.org
>>
>I get rather good video streams at 300KBPS (1/3 my internet connection
>speed) from ABC-news all the time
>

What is your internet speed? Remember that there's a difference
between upload speed and download speed. And don't forget the
difference between bits (b) and bytes (B) which are groups of 8 bits.

The speeds of most internet services are given in bps (BITS per
second). Much software (including that on the Replay gives speeds in
Bps (BYTES per second).

My internet connection allows download speeds of over 900kbps (which
is equivalent to 112.5KBPS). I guess yours is the same. If your video
stream is really 300KBPS as you said, that is 2400kbps (too high).
Upload speeds are much lower.

Standard wireless ethernet devices (802.11b) claim a maximum speed of
11mbps. That's plenty for what you want, but notice the "UP TO" in
that speed. Real connection speed is often lower. Then there's the
overhead (higher with wireless). You may be getting no more than
600kbps (75KBPS).

>At least one of my proucts does measure the bit rate when displaying an
>MPEG and reports it....

The DUMeter I told you about shows network speed no matter what's
being transferred.

> (And of couse that app won't run just now, May
>have to re-install it) but it reposts bit rates below my internet
>connection speed

Of course speed is limited by the SLOWER of the sending and the
receiving device. In that case that web server (the one with the MPEG)
isn't sending as fast as you could receive.

--
106 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:08:33 GMT, Steph
<CUT_skipatrol@hotmail.com_CUT> wrote:

>John in Detroit <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>news:Eoo0d.2247$RS5.399@newssvr15.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> Mark Lloyd wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 10:33:55 GMT, John in Detroit
>>> <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> That would be showing the limits of your internet connection (which
>>> wireless is adequate for). Speed test sites will be useless here (and
>>> not even the best way to test internet speed). Use a program like
>>> DUMeter (http://www.dumeter.com/) to measure your actual speeds.
>>> Anyway, streaming requires greater bandwidth that most internet
>>> connections.
>>>
>>> BTW, I find nothing at www.wugnet.org
>>>
>> I get rather good video streams at 300KBPS (1/3 my internet connection
>> speed) from ABC-news all the time
>>
>> At least one of my proucts does measure the bit rate when displaying
>> an MPEG and reports it.... (And of couse that app won't run just now,
>> May have to re-install it) but it reposts bit rates below my internet
>> connection speed
>>
>
>300KBPS (actually kbps)

I suppose you know about the difference between bits (b) and bytes (B)
there. It seems to be a common cause of confusion.

> is naturally less than your broadband
>connection. It is also displayed in a window at a much lower resolution
>and sound quality (bitrate) than the MPG2 files coming off your RTV.
>
>Please read from the source and search for the keywords of bitrate and
>bandwidth (separately) about the v5.x software. Again I have 45xx
>series, so mine is different.
> http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/r [...] pgrade.asp
>
>Try some basic math:
>Take an hour long episode/show. How big is it?
>Now figure out how much of that show needs to stream from one side to
>other for each minute ( 1/60th ). Do the calculation again to get per
>second. There is some additional fudging to deal with Bytes versus bits
>(factor of 8) - but that should get you close.
>
>Now realize the theoretical maximum for 100Mb wired line is roughly 70
>Mb. Same overhead for slower or wireless.

I expect you got it right for wired. Wireless has greater overhead
(and also notice that wireless speeds are UP TO).

>
>Fun huh?

--
106 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 20:51:14 GMT, John in Detroit
<Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Mark Lloyd wrote:
>
>> That would be showing the limits of your internet connection (which
>> wireless is adequate for). Speed test sites will be useless here (and
>> not even the best way to test internet speed). Use a program like
>> DUMeter (http://www.dumeter.com/) to measure your actual speeds.
>> Anyway, streaming requires greater bandwidth that most internet
>> connections.
>>
>> BTW, I find nothing at www.wugnet.org
>>
>
>Sorry it's www.wugnet.com (i should know the URL, I bought this laptop
>from it's owner)
>

I normally use copy & paste from the browser, to be sure to get the
right URL. That leads to a home page with a lot of stuff on it. Is
there a speed test here? How about a better link?

Still, using such a site can show only your internet speed, which will
probably be less than your local network speed (even wireless).

>Oh,,, And I see file transfer rates in the same speed range when
>I'm copying off //main via the lan
>

I guess you forgot to quote the right lines. Are you referring to the
59mbps I mentioned?

>Let's see. 1 gig (1000/meg)

I suppose thats 1GB (gigaBYTE). Is this supposed to be the amount of
data the Replay records? I find about 880KB/hr in Standard and
1.6MB/hr in Medium.

> divided by 3600 seconds 277K bytes per
>second or about 2.7mbps if I've not misplaced a decmil point
>

I get 2.16mbps (for the number it's (277*8)/1000). Maybe a difference
in rounding somewhere.

So you've got the necessary speed to transfer 1GB in an hour (except
you need to add a bit for TCP/IP overhead).

>I should note... In my first tests wireless was faster however I've not
>been able to reproduce that, Get about a meg a bit per second either
>way now

**
Note that in the math above I used 1000, as you seemed to be. These
things normally use 1024 instead (1000=10^3, so it makes sense in
decimal. 1024=2^10, so it makes sense in binary):

1B = 8b
1KB = 1024B
1MB = 1024KB
1GB = 1024MB

--
106 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:54:58 GMT, Steph
<CUT_skipatrol@hotmail.com_CUT> wrote:

>John in Detroit <Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote in
>news:nqf0d.426$Qv5.62@newssvr33.news.prodigy.com:
>
>> Mark Lloyd wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 18:23:54 -0400, "Dave Robb" <dave-robb@cox.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>What software would you recommend for streaming captured video from
>>>>ReplayTV to computer via wireless network. Have tried using Windows
>>>>media player and audio scrambles. Videolan seems to play for a few
>>>>seconds then "hangs up" Any ideas? Thanks
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Wireless is limited in bandwidth and may not work properly for
>>> streaming (especially High Quality). You should copy the whole thing
>>> to the computer (DVArchive works fine) and then play it. VideoLAN
>>> should work OK then.
>>>
>>> Of course there's always wired 100mbps ethernet connections.
>>>
>>
>> I keep hearing how wireless is bandwidth limited. Using a IBM
>> thinkpad 600e, and among others the speed test at www.wugnet.org I've
>> run many banwidth tests..... Can't see much difference between
>> wireless (And I'm using .b) and wired DI-514 router, DWL-650 card,
>> not your best of line products (in fact as far from best as you can
>> get) about Line speed is about 1 meg and this house is not radio
>> friendly.
>
>I assume www.wugnet.org returns a bandwidth test for your internet
>connection.

Even the corrected URL (.com) does not. It refers to a home page with
no apparent links to a speed test.

> Note your cable modem, DSL, or satellite and the link to
>your router is the limiting factor.

Yes.

> Most home routers allow 100Mb half-
>duplex communication and the better do a full-duplex comm.
>

Full-duplex should help then there are more than 2 machines using the
network.

>Compare that to an 802.11b connection with a 100% signal strength which
>tops out at 12-14Mbps.

They claim 11Mbps. People often don't notice the "UP TO".

Wireless adds a lot of overhead.

Range will be significantly less than advertised.

>Likewise you could use a homeplug connection,
>which is rated at 14Mbps --- but not for anything above the lowest
>quality recordings.
>I have 45xx series machines and I understand the 5xxx use a different
>MPEG encryption (specifically for the audio with a switch between
>variable bitrates and static bitrates) - so my expeiences will differ
>from yours.
>

With my 5xxx, the file sizes are about 880MB/hr for Medium and
1.6GB/hr for Medium. What do you get?

>My "main" RTV is currently using a HPNA connection - max of 14Mbps.
>I can BARELY stream a "standard quality" show from either RTV to another
>RTV or to a PC. If I attempt