Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

I'm confused about a forum news release about 5xxx being discontinued
because of commercial skip and internet sharing. Is replay going
under? Is the future bright ? Will they continue to be able to share
within a house ?

I really want two plus tuners. If I buy two replay TVs, do I get a
discount on the second subscription (like satellite)? Is the lifetime
subscription limited to the hardware and not the user ? My tivo died
once in two years.

How hackable is it? Any copying off show to PC hardware? I really
want to burn DVDs.


Thanks for the help,

Paul

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Paul McHale wrote:
> I'm confused about a forum news release about 5xxx being discontinued
> because of commercial skip and internet sharing.

50xx were replaced with 55xx which do not have internet sharing and have
manual commercial advance.

> Is replay going
> under? Is the future bright ?

DNNA is well off financially (Denon, Marantz, Rio). It is Tivo that is
almost bankrupt. DNNA is moving to a central home media server based
system, which was awarded best in show. The unit shown is delayed due to
re-design, probably in response to changes in the marketplace And
customer requests. Nobody knows, but this could be multi-tuners,
cable-card capability, etc. Existing Replay units should be able to be
used as clients in this system.

> Will they continue to be able to share
> within a house ?

Networking is integral to Replay.
>
> I really want two plus tuners. If I buy two replay TVs, do I get a
> discount on the second subscription (like satellite)?

No. Most Replayers have more than one and since Replays stream to each
other and can be controlled from the others, multi-tuners become
unneccessary.

> Is the lifetime
> subscription limited to the hardware and not the user ? My tivo died
> once in two years.

Hardware. Replays are easily user repairable as 99% of failures are due
to drive failure. Also, DNNA has become more pliable in transferring
subscriptions from failed units.
>
> How hackable is it?

Very

> Any copying off show to PC hardware? I really
> want to burn DVDs.
>

Replay is the only game in town. There is no restriction on what you can
burn. It is easy and Replay has the killer app DVArchive which allows
streaming to/from pc, remote control & scheduling and a lot more. Tivo
has announced a desire to add this ability, but with restrictions. Given
their financial condition, I would consider this vaporware until it is
delivered.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 03:57:53 -0400, Tony D <nospam@nospam.com> wrote:

[snip]

>> I really want two plus tuners. If I buy two replay TVs, do I get a
>> discount on the second subscription (like satellite)?
>
>No. Most Replayers have more than one and since Replays stream to each
>other and can be controlled from the others, multi-tuners become
>unneccessary.
>

But would be desirable, considering the confilct resolution (although
DVArchive helps here with it's "upcoming shows" list and ability to
schedule),

[snip]

--
115 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

D&M has given every indication that they want out of the standalone DVR
business where they are hemorrhaging money. (Tony hates it when I quote their
press releases)
The only question for us is whether they new "server" they are developing will
have backward compatibility to our current machines and if they will honor the
"lifetimes" after they spin off the standalone DVR business. The word they use
is they are seeking a "strategic partner". I think that means a cable company.
I do agree with Tony that if they do find a partner to keep RTV alive it will
also honor lifetimers. There is also no reason to think the server won't stream
to 4500-5500 machines.
I do think "phone only" folks may have to "Bring their own connection" to the
central site in some areas, if not all.
If you think all things are forever, go down to Blockbuster and try to rent a
Betamax tape!

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On 01 Sep 2004 17:32:12 GMT, gfretwell@aol.com (Greg) wrote:

>D&M has given every indication that they want out of the standalone DVR
>business where they are hemorrhaging money. (Tony hates it when I quote their
>press releases)
>The only question for us is whether they new "server" they are developing will
>have backward compatibility to our current machines and if they will honor the
>"lifetimes" after they spin off the standalone DVR business. The word they use
>is they are seeking a "strategic partner". I think that means a cable company.
>I do agree with Tony that if they do find a partner to keep RTV alive it will
>also honor lifetimers. There is also no reason to think the server won't stream
>to 4500-5500 machines.
>I do think "phone only" folks may have to "Bring their own connection" to the
>central site in some areas, if not all.
>If you think all things are forever, go down to Blockbuster and try to rent a
>Betamax tape!

It they do stop the service, it's likely that someone else will
provide a substitute (probably requiring an internet connection, even
for older units).

--
115 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Paul McHale <paul.mchale@_NO_$PAMearthlink.net> shaped the electrons to say:
>I'm confused about a forum news release about 5xxx being discontinued
>because of commercial skip and internet sharing. Is replay going
>under? Is the future bright ? Will they continue to be able to share
>within a house ?

ReplayTV has gone under - twice. The first time SonicBlue bought
them. The second time D&M Holdings bought them and used them as part
of the new entity - Digital Networks North America. DNNA is where RTV
lives currently.

The 5000 series is dead, the 5500 is current. They're the same HW,
slightly different features - they dropped Send Show and Commercial
Advance.

It looks like DNNA is leaving the standalone DVR market. They haven't
refreshed the RTV HW in quite a while and have made no announcements
about plans to do so. They also dropped several announced plans for
features like MP3 playback and USB WiFi support.

DNNA has been focusing on bundling DVR functionality into high end
media servers. They haven't *shipped* anything yet though. At
CES2004 in January they showed off a media server, even won a Best of
Show award, but 8 months later it hasn't shipped and there is no firm
date yet. But this is the way they're going.

They've been looking for a 'strategic partner' for the DVR market - in
other words, they want to license the software and get out of the HW
business.

>I really want two plus tuners. If I buy two replay TVs, do I get a
>discount on the second subscription (like satellite)? Is the lifetime
>subscription limited to the hardware and not the user ? My tivo died

There is no discount on multiple subs like there is on TiVO, and the
lifetime is per unit - just like TiVo.

>How hackable is it? Any copying off show to PC hardware? I really
>want to burn DVDs.

RTV isn't very hackable at all, compared to TiVo. Hacks are pretty
much limited to larger drives. But copying to PC HW is easier because
RTV's streaming security is a laugh, so there is software that spoofs
being an RTV and gets another unit to stream to it, then saves the
stream.

To do the same on TiVo you either have to wait for TiVoToGo later
these year or hack the unit to enable extraction. Though if you do
the hack it is then trivial to copy the content.

-MZ, RHCE #806199299900541, ex-CISSP #3762
--
<URL:mailto:megazoneatmegazone.org> Gweep, Discordian, Author, Engineer, me.
"A little nonsense now and then, is relished by the wisest men" 508-755-4098
<URL:http://www.megazone.org/> <URL:http://www.eyrie-productions.com/> Eris

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>t they do stop the service, it's likely that someone else will
>provide a substitute (probably requiring an internet connection, even
>for older units).
>
>--

That I do agree with. I imagine Zap2it might even jump in but the cable company
is a natural since they already have a similar service on their digital boxes.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On 01 Sep 2004 20:39:00 GMT, gfretwell@aol.com (Greg) wrote:

>>t they do stop the service, it's likely that someone else will
>>provide a substitute (probably requiring an internet connection, even
>>for older units).
>>
>>--
>
>That I do agree with. I imagine Zap2it might even jump in but the cable company
>is a natural since they already have a similar service on their digital boxes.

However, Replay isn't limited to digital cable, or even cable so that
wouldn't be a complete solution.

DVArchive already gets a guide somewhere. Some additional software
could pass that on the the Replay.

Does anyone here use zap2it for terrestrial broadcast? Does it list
the channels you actually get?

--
115 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

> ReplayTV has gone under - twice. The first time SonicBlue bought
> them. The second time D&M Holdings bought them and used them as part
> of the new entity - Digital Networks North America. DNNA is where RTV
> lives currently.

That's correct, and a simple call to a broker will give you a fast
answer on the financial stability of Tivo vs DNNA. (This is where Tivo
people like to change the subject and talk about "market share" ).

>
> The 5000 series is dead, the 5500 is current. They're the same HW,
> slightly different features - they dropped Send Show and Commercial
> Advance.

Commercial Advance is called Show/NAv on the 5500.

> They've been looking for a 'strategic partner' for the DVR market - in
> other words, they want to license the software and get out of the HW0.
> business.

Media servers and their clients are still hardware and DNNA is a
hardware company, not a think tank. Tivo is looking for a partner also,
but in their case it is to survive.

> RTV isn't very hackable at all, compared to TiVo. Hacks are pretty
> much limited to larger drives. But copying to PC HW is easier because
> RTV's streaming security is a laugh, so there is software that spoofs
> being an RTV and gets another unit to stream to it, then saves the
> stream.

Replays have an open architecture which allows a lot of custom software.
Many of Tivo hacks are to emulate Replay features. Replays have no
encryption, Tivos do and it looks like the levels are increasing. Tivo
is shopping themselves to media content providers, which would be an
absolute disaster for the consumer.

> To do the same on TiVo you either have to wait for TiVoToGo later
> these year or hack the unit to enable extraction. Though if you do
> the hack it is then trivial to copy the content.

Given their financial shape (like I said, ask a broker not a Tivo
cheerleader), I would wait until the "new features" are out before
looking toward Tivo. Until then it is just vaporware.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Greg wrote:

> D&M has given every indication that they want out of the standalone DVR
> business where they are hemorrhaging money. (Tony hates it when I quote their
> press releases)

Their press releases said they had lower profits the last quarter than
what they originally calculated due to the takeover costs of Rio, Replay
, etc. Of course this was a given because their previous prediction had
no allocation for buying these companies anyway. I suggest any reader
here worrying about the financial stability of DNNA to call a broker not
a chatroom theorist.

> The only question for us is whether they new "server" they are developing will
> have backward compatibility to our current machines and if they will honor the
> "lifetimes" after they spin off the standalone DVR business. The word they use
> is they are seeking a "strategic partner". I think that means a cable company.
> I do agree with Tony that if they do find a partner to keep RTV alive it will
> also honor lifetimers. There is also no reason to think the server won't stream
> to 4500-5500 machines.

The media server is supposed to be available with client units and
current Replays are supposed to be able to serve as these clients. Can't
see why this would not be easy, but anything is possible. There are more
than 60,000 replays in service and the division operates in the black
according to DNNA people. The entire operation is a customer service
department and a couple of engineers, the rest is now Denon (r&d,design,
advertising,etc). The media server has been delayed since the market
place has changed so dramatically in the last few months. There is
nothing specific about the changes being made but I would think they
would have to be multi-tuners, cable-card, etc.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>That's correct, and a simple call to a broker will give you a fast
>answer on the financial stability of Tivo vs DNNA. (This is where Tivo
>people like to change the subject and talk about "market share" ).

Sony was in great shape but they cut loose several million BetaMax users.
What's your point?


>Replays have an open architecture which allows a lot of custom software.

Where is the complier? Where is the source code? How do you upload the
software? Is the API published anywhere?

RTV is certainly "closed" architecture. The only "hacks" are people who are
tricking the RTV into thinking it is talking to another RTV or the server.

>Given their financial shape (like I said, ask a broker not a Tivo
>cheerleader),
Your pom poms say RTV on them, what's your point? You do look cute in your
uniform tho ;-)

Go Team!

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

>There are more
>than 60,000 replays in service and the division operates in the black
>according to DNNA people

Sure, if you ignore the 1.3 billion yen they wrote off.
If I ignore the money I send the power company I am making a profit on my
electric bill too.

You really hate their press releases don't you?

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Mark Lloyd wrote:


>
>
> No, but seems to be getting it from the same source.

I agree they may well be using the same source, I should point out the
"Same error" I noticed also applies to Yahoo! "My TV" www.Iwon.com and
TVguide.com and ZAPIT.com All showed the same errors

(Which is why I think it's the station's fault)



> Both Replay and DVA (with the same settings) should display the same
> number of channels, before you've deselected (hidden) any.

That is not how I remembered it. I do know they assumed I had about a
400' TV antenna tower (What I'd need to get many of the stations they
listed on broadcast, And yes,,,,, I worked in the antenna business for a
while so I know what I'd need

Project for yesterday.... Add additional 3-wire ground outlet in living
room for wife's VCR. Since power company is so good here I now have her
VCR (She uses a standard VCR says of Replay "Oh, that's too
complicated" ) is on a UPS (APC 280) Works nice

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 11:03:30 GMT, John in Detroit
<Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Mark Lloyd wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>> No, but seems to be getting it from the same source.
>
>I agree they may well be using the same source, I should point out the
>"Same error" I noticed also applies to Yahoo! "My TV" www.Iwon.com and
>TVguide.com and ZAPIT.com All showed the same errors
>

They copy stuff from each other a lot. Looks like the same way most
people don't have opinions on major issues. Those that seem to are
usually just repeating others'.

>(Which is why I think it's the station's fault)
>

Could be, They do things like that. BTW, I used to live in Denton
(near Dallas TX) and EVERY city map I saw had the same error on a
street less than a block from where I lived.

>
>
>> Both Replay and DVA (with the same settings) should display the same
>> number of channels, before you've deselected (hidden) any.
>
>That is not how I remembered it.

Could it be channels that were added between when you set up the
Replay and when you set up DVA? Also, maybe it's how DVA 3.0 kept
forgetting about hidden channels? That problem seems to be fixed in
DVA 3.1.

BTW, DVA works better if your firewall passes uPnP (IP address
239.255.255.250) locally. Strange that they used THAT IP for LAN
traffic. I have it blocked at my router, so it's not being sent on the
internet.

> I do know they assumed I had about a
>400' TV antenna tower (What I'd need to get many of the stations they
>listed on broadcast,

Not as bad (you can always deselect them) as when they leave off
channels you can get with a little indoor antenna. They do that a lot
around here (varies somewhat by ZIP).

> And yes,,,,, I worked in the antenna business for a
>while so I know what I'd need
>
>Project for yesterday.... Add additional 3-wire ground outlet in living
>room for wife's VCR. Since power company is so good here I now have her
>VCR (She uses a standard VCR says of Replay "Oh, that's too
>complicated" ) is on a UPS (APC 280) Works nice

I started using a DVR because I wanted something that would work like
a VCR (pause, rewind, forward, etc...) with live TV (something nearly
impossible with tape), then found out about the schedule and seldom
watch live TV now. I usually don't even know when something comes on
or what channel, just watch it when convenient.

--
113 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

I bet the source for most TV listings is TMS/Zap2it. At any rate they are all
at the mercy of what the networks and affilliates tell them. These days I
suspect they get a spreadsheet file (XLS or similar) and it is up to the user
to roll that up into a database.
I'm not sure who clips on the attributes like "action","Comedy" etc but I bet
it is TMS.
The actual software for the searching and selection (themes etc) is pretty
trivial in a database system.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

Mark Lloyd wrote:
>
> Using DVA as an internet server. It's possible, but as the FAQs say,
> there are security issues. Also, there's a couple of different servers
> in DVA:

The plan is to run two programs on the "Server" one DVA set to download
all programs at least once a day. And the other basically a very
heavily password protected FTP server. Something with a password like
"Now*is#the&time@for^all$good+men=to_come-to$the&aid or some such
(all passwords are hackable, that one is going to make some hacker loose
a lot of sleep, that is not, however, a password I'd ever use. but you
get the idea, lots of words separated with random non-spaces, just the
words would not string like those do)

I have found this actually works better.... Currently if I'm in a hurry
it's better to let //main download the RTV and then copy/move the files
using network commands rather than allowing DVA to do it. I get about
double the download speed when copying files from //main using windows
move file command as opposed to replay, and that's faster coming off the
1.8GHz Win-xp box than off the RTV



>
> I can remember many instances of watching that tape very carefully,
> hoping something would fit.

I see we agree there... And what's worse is not watching it and catching
fifty minutes and then ...... <REW shows up on the screen ARRRGGHHH!!!!

And though my RTV is only a 5504.... I now have a small 160 hour
accessory that plugs into either of the DVArchive equipped boxes.

Makes for one LONG video tape don't you know (I'm transferring to it as
I type)

>
> You could record the DVDs to the Replay if there's enough room. I've
> done that a few times, in order to get a digital copy on the computer.
> This works better than using a digitizer card in the PC.


I do, with DVA there is more than enough room... Did find though that at
high quality I need to limit the file size. I have only one NTFS drive
(not counting the 5504, don't know what file structure it uses) and
that's my smallest (20 gig) HD. It's a storage drive, not actively used.

This computer chokes if it sees 4+ gig in a file size, won't even delete
it remotely.. So I have to keep files under four gigs (known issue (not
a bug) of FAT and windows other than NT)


> A VCD will hold 2 of those 30-minute shows. I recorded a few, mostly
> just to see if I could (and to avoid creating so many DVD "coasters" ).

I know,,, I can put an hour on a VCD but quality suffers.
One half hour fits at best quality

> I have about 55 theme channels at this time.

Is there an easy way to set up a theme channel? (I"m still learning the
menu structure on this box and have not seen anything in the fine manual
on that, or if I did I missed it)

> Do you care if Replay ever has a HDTV model?

Well.... might be nice but not having any HDTV's in the house.

Archived from groups: alt.video.ptv.replaytv (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Sep 2004 01:01:04 GMT, John in Detroit
<Blanked@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>Mark Lloyd wrote:
>>
>> Using DVA as an internet server. It's possible, but as the FAQs say,
>> there are security issues. Also, there's a couple of different servers
>> in DVA:
>
>The plan is to run two programs on the "Server" one DVA set to download
>all programs at least once a day. And the other basically a very
>heavily password protected FTP server. Something with a password like
>"Now*is#the&time@for^all$good+men=to_come-to$the&aid or some such
>(all passwords are hackable, that one is going to make some hacker loose
>a lot of sleep, that is not, however, a password I'd ever use. but you
>get the idea, lots of words separated with random non-spaces, just the
>words would not string like those do)
>

Do you have to type that password?

>I have found this actually works better.... Currently if I'm in a hurry
>it's better to let //main download the RTV and then copy/move the files
>using network commands rather than allowing DVA to do it. I get about
>double the download speed when copying files from //main using windows
>move file command as opposed to replay, and that's faster coming off the
>1.8GHz Win-xp box than off the RTV
>
>

What actual speeds are you getting, and with what connection?

That (the combination of DVA and a FTP server) sounds like something I
may want to do. Everything automatic until the final download, which
will be fast.

>
>>
>> I can remember many instances of watching that tape very carefully,
>> hoping something would fit.
>