Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Is this possible?

Thanks,

Tom

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 5 Dec 2004 08:36:55 -0800, tomloi@hotmail.com (Tom) wrote:

>Is this possible?

Sure is. You want to make something quick and easy (and not 5.1)?
Record onto a standalone DVD recorder. The video will be average, the
sound will be stereo. But you'll be done in the running time of your
disc.

Want to do better? Better get ready for quite a large learning curve,
spending some money, and taking some considerable time.

The best method would resemble something like as follows:

Step One:
- buy a decent LD player (Pioneer 704 and up?)
- buy an AC3-RF demodulator (eBay?)
- buy a decent PC cap card (Philips or Conexant 9- or 10-bit chipset)
- buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)
- download a capture application (VirtualVCR? The best ones are free)
- download VirtualDubMod (free)
- download AviSynth (free)
- download HuffYUV codec (free)
- download BeSweet (free)
- download CCE or TMPGEnc (sorta free)
- buy a big hard drive (NOT free)

Step Two:
- visit doom9.org and/or videohelp.com
- read, read, read
- read a little more

Step Three:
- cap your disc(s): HuffYUV YUY2, 720 x 480, 29.97fps
- you can eliminate rot by getting three individual copies of any
disc, and using AviSynth to average the best two sources for every
pixel in every frame
- cap AC3 audio from demodulator into CoolEdit Pro (now Adobe
Audition). Audacity (free) might also work; not sure

Step Four:
- IVTC (if the source is a movie) with AviSynth
- do other cleanup and filtering with AviSynth (e.g. colour correct,
sharpen, rotoscope, remove dust, etc., etc. -- this can make a
dramatic difference to the final result)
- make the picture anamorphic with AviSynth (optional)
- render video to MPEG-2 with either CCE or TMPGEnc
- render audio to AC-3 (if it isn't AC-3 already) with BeSweet

Step Five:
- author with DVD authoring package of choice (DVDlab is powerful and
cheap).

Step Six:
- phone up all your old friends, and tell them you're still alive
despite your year-long disappearance.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

tomloi@hotmail.com (Tom) wrote...
> Is this possible?

Yes, it is possible and has been posted here and alt.dvd.authoring ad
nauseam. Do a simple google groups search. Here's my solution...

<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=139de3b3.0310201237.21f2ec70%40posting.google.com&rnum=2&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26q%3Dauthor%253Awatsona%40kenyon.edu%2Bac-3%26btnG%3DSearch>

HTH,

-Junior

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote...
> Step Six:
> - phone up all your old friends, and tell them you're still alive
> despite your year-long disappearance.

LOL! Good one, G. Thanks for brightening my day!

-Junior

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Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
: - buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)

How do you plug AC-3 into your soundcard?

--Leonid

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Leonid Makarovsky" <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:cp0pmf$7a$3@news3.bu.edu...
> Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
> : - buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)
>
> How do you plug AC-3 into your soundcard?
>
> --Leonid

After teh LD's AC-3 RF is modulated, now its regular old digital ac-3, you
can plug it in and capture it using any PC soundcard with a digital input,
many models have that feature now.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 6 Dec 2004 05:11:43 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>: - buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)

>How do you plug AC-3 into your soundcard?

Locate two RCA cables.

Get ahold of first cable. Connect one end to RF AC3 out of laser disk and
connect other end to demodulator.

Get ahold of second cable. Connect one end to demodulator's output and connect
it to the s/pdif (ac3) input of sound card.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 5 Dec 2004 18:43:48 -0800, watsona@kenyon.edu (unclejr) wrote:

>Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote...
>> Step Six:
>> - phone up all your old friends, and tell them you're still alive
>> despite your year-long disappearance.
>
>LOL! Good one, G. Thanks for brightening my day!
>
>-Junior

Heh, heh... you're welcome. I know that that LOL of yours is from
bitter (?) experience!

Thank goodness for understanding partners, eh?

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 23:22:34 -0600, TCS
<The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:

>On 6 Dec 2004 05:11:43 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>>Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>>: - buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)
>
>>How do you plug AC-3 into your soundcard?
>
>Locate two RCA cables.
>
>Get ahold of first cable. Connect one end to RF AC3 out of laser disk and
>connect other end to demodulator.
>
>Get ahold of second cable. Connect one end to demodulator's output and connect
>it to the s/pdif (ac3) input of sound card.

Yup: it really is almost that simple. The one remaining caveat is that
even if you've got a sound card (or, even worse, on-board sound) with
S/PDIF in, it may resample all the incoming audio, destroying the
"AC3-ness" of the incoming bitstream.

In fact, most on-board sound is AC-97, which I believe *specifies*
resampling of input audio, so an external card is probably a
necessity.

There are cheap sound cards that don't resample, just as there are
more expensive ones that do. You'll likely have to do a little
homework -- perhaps including some testing.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 06:03:59 GMT, Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 23:22:34 -0600, TCS
><The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:

>>On 6 Dec 2004 05:11:43 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>>>Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>>>: - buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)
>>
>>>How do you plug AC-3 into your soundcard?
>>
>>Locate two RCA cables.
>>
>>Get ahold of first cable. Connect one end to RF AC3 out of laser disk and
>>connect other end to demodulator.
>>
>>Get ahold of second cable. Connect one end to demodulator's output and connect
>>it to the s/pdif (ac3) input of sound card.

>Yup: it really is almost that simple. The one remaining caveat is that
>even if you've got a sound card (or, even worse, on-board sound) with
>S/PDIF in, it may resample all the incoming audio, destroying the
>"AC3-ness" of the incoming bitstream.

>In fact, most on-board sound is AC-97, which I believe *specifies*
>resampling of input audio, so an external card is probably a
>necessity.

>There are cheap sound cards that don't resample, just as there are
>more expensive ones that do. You'll likely have to do a little
>homework -- perhaps including some testing.

That's the *real* problem. Connecting the cables is trivial. Finding software
cheaper than simply replacing all your movies is the difficult part.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 08:55:39 -0600, TCS
<The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:

>Finding software
>cheaper than simply replacing all your movies is the difficult part.

I disagree!

For movies/other material that just doesn't exist outside LD, there's
no other choice than to do it yourself. But it's the time and effort
that's the difficult part, not finding cheap software.

Almost all of the software I use is freeware or cheap shareware, and
excellent. That includes VirtualVCR, the HuffYUV lossless codec,
VirtualDubMod, AviSynth, TMPGEnc, BeSweet, and Audacity. I believe
there are still free trial versions of CoolEdit Pro and CCE out there
somewhere. I haven't upgraded my DVDlab for a while, but as I recall
that's another cheap/free trial, and even the full product is cheap.

Turning to hardware, a suitable cap card is about $80CAD, and a
suitable soundcard could be as little as $50CAD.

So the most expensive parts are the demodulator (only for AC-3), the
LD player itself -- which it seems many people participating in this
forum have few troubles justifying, if some of the -X0/-X9 threads are
to be believed -- and generic stuff like hard drive space.

Don't count up the hours you end up spending chasing perfection,
though: even at overseas-running-shoe-factory labour rates, you'll be
appalled at how much it "costs".

Pretty fun, though.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
: Get ahold of first cable. Connect one end to RF AC3 out of laser disk and
: connect other end to demodulator.

Ok, I get it. The RF AC3 from LD is an analog signal, correct? AC-3 is not
stored digitally on LaserDisc.

--Leonid

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
: Yup: it really is almost that simple. The one remaining caveat is that
: even if you've got a sound card (or, even worse, on-board sound) with
: S/PDIF in, it may resample all the incoming audio, destroying the
: "AC3-ness" of the incoming bitstream.

I have read the reports that soundblasters were resampling digital audio. That's
why I stay away from Creative. M-Audio copied digital audio signals as is.
I hope the soundcard I'm using now (http://productsen.terratec.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=197&menu=114) also copies as is.


Now, if you do the proper connections and stuff, then do the capturing in
VirtualVCR into AVI file. Then demux audio. What format of WAV file is it
going to be. You get the AC-3 in. So when you load your audio to any sound
editors, how many channels is it going to show? Is it also going to be an
uncompressed WAV file?

--Leonid

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 6 Dec 2004 16:29:06 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
>: Get ahold of first cable. Connect one end to RF AC3 out of laser disk and
>: connect other end to demodulator.

>Ok, I get it. The RF AC3 from LD is an analog signal, correct? AC-3 is not
>stored digitally on LaserDisc.

correct. Don't ask me why, but the last step of demodulation is never done
in the laserdisc player.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 16:06:30 GMT, Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 08:55:39 -0600, TCS
><The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:

>>Finding software
>>cheaper than simply replacing all your movies is the difficult part.

>I disagree!

>For movies/other material that just doesn't exist outside LD, there's
>no other choice than to do it yourself. But it's the time and effort
>that's the difficult part, not finding cheap software.

>Almost all of the software I use is freeware or cheap shareware, and
>excellent. That includes VirtualVCR, the HuffYUV lossless codec,
>VirtualDubMod, AviSynth, TMPGEnc, BeSweet, and Audacity. I believe
>there are still free trial versions of CoolEdit Pro and CCE out there
>somewhere. I haven't upgraded my DVDlab for a while, but as I recall
>that's another cheap/free trial, and even the full product is cheap.

excuse me. I asked the exact question about 8 months ago and was told
by all the regulars that there was no solution less than about $2500.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Leonid Makarovsky wrote:
> Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
> : Yup: it really is almost that simple. The one remaining caveat is that
> : even if you've got a sound card (or, even worse, on-board sound) with
> : S/PDIF in, it may resample all the incoming audio, destroying the
> : "AC3-ness" of the incoming bitstream.
>
> I have read the reports that soundblasters were resampling digital audio. That's
> why I stay away from Creative. M-Audio copied digital audio signals as is.
> I hope the soundcard I'm using now (http://productsen.terratec.net/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=197&menu=114) also copies as is.

Yes, it should. According to the website you linked your card (Terratec
Aureon 7.1 Universe) feautures a "Bit-true Digital input,
optical/coaxial, 44.1/48/96 kHz (TOS link)". This is what you want. I
own a Terratec EWX 24/96 and it also has a bit-true digital input
(optical only) and workes correctly.

> Now, if you do the proper connections and stuff, then do the capturing in
> VirtualVCR into AVI file. Then demux audio. What format of WAV file is it
> going to be. You get the AC-3 in. So when you load your audio to any sound
> editors, how many channels is it going to show? Is it also going to be an
> uncompressed WAV file?

You have to record the AC-3 audio stream to a 44.1 KHz 16 bit stereo
file. The AC-3 stream will be embedded in the wave file. If you play
this file back without software dsp or equalizer, using a soundcard with
bit-true sp-dif output to a external decoder, the external decoder
should pick up the AC-3 signal inside and decode it.

For DVD authoring only 48 KHz audio streams are supported. So you will
have to extract the AC-3 stream from the wave file, demux it, upsample
it to 48 KHz and then reencode it to AC-3. The best tool for this is
BeSweet (see www.doom9.org).

Greetings,
Martijn Bouterse

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:22:03 +0100, Martijn Bouterse
<nospam@myaddress.com> wrote:

>You have to record the AC-3 audio stream to a 44.1 KHz 16 bit stereo
>file. The AC-3 stream will be embedded in the wave file.
>
>For DVD authoring only 48 KHz audio streams are supported. So you will
>have to extract the AC-3 stream from the wave file, demux it, upsample
>it to 48 KHz and then reencode it to AC-3.

Are you just saying, or have you done it? Because I am quite sure you
don't have to extract/demux/remux; LD AC-3 is already 48kHz. It's been
a long time since I messed around with this, but I believe you have to
record the original WAV at 48kHz, 16-bit stereo.

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

> I have read the reports that soundblasters were resampling digital audio.
That's
> why I stay away from Creative.

Its the software that resamples it. If installed correctly it wont do this.

/Kenneth Iversen

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Kenneth Iversen <kenneth.iversen@notvalid.tele.duh> wrote:
: Its the software that resamples it. If installed correctly it wont do this.

No, it wasn't software. It was soundblaster's drivers.

--Leonid