Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

I am seeing a flood of GC83 cards on Ebay lately. What are users
replacing those cards with??

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In <21ndf1lnrilu2pe9bvkcjr85h1fcru0br7@4ax.com> on Mon, 08 Aug 2005 00:15:28
-0400, Howard Huntley <hhuntleyjr@comcast.net> wrote:

>I am seeing a flood of GC83 cards on Ebay lately. What are users
>replacing those cards with??

There's nothing better to replace them with. Perhaps those folks are
switching from GSM to CDMA.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Cingular lately has offered the Sierra Wireless 775 Air Card for EDGE
service. It is a class 12 device, whereas the GC83 is a class 10
device. Class 12 has faster data rates than class 10. Sierra Wireless
also has a very good reputation. The Sierra card costs $50 more than
the Sony Ericsson card for new accounts at Cingular.

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In <1123509587.057203.124480@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> on 8 Aug 2005
06:59:47 -0700, "GomJabbar" <dkbatson@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Cingular lately has offered the Sierra Wireless 775 Air Card for EDGE
>service. It is a class 12 device, whereas the GC83 is a class 10
>device. Class 12 has faster data rates than class 10. Sierra Wireless
>also has a very good reputation. The Sierra card costs $50 more than
>the Sony Ericsson card for new accounts at Cingular.

Fair enough -- what I should have said was, "'There's nothing better to
replace them with' as far as downlink speeds are concerned, which is what most
users care about."

GPRS/EGPRS(EDGE) slot configurations:

Class 10- Configurable between
One Up, Four Down
Or Two Up, Three Down

Class 12- Configurable between
One Up, Four Down
Or Two Up, Three Down
Or Three Up, Two Down
Or Four Up, One Down

Thus:
Class 12 is no faster than Class 10 for DOWNlink.
Class 12 can be made up to twice as fast as Class 10 for UPlink,
but only at the expense of downlink speed.

Class 12 thus matters if you are sending a large file, but has no benefit for
normal surfing and downloading.

As far as reputation is concerned, I think Sony Ericsson has at least as good
reputation as Sierra, if not better -- the GC8x-series is excellent.

I have a GC82. If I were buying a new EDGE card, I might go for Class 12 over
Class 10, but the increased uplink speed isn't enough for me to upgrade from
my GC82.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

John Navas wrote:
> There's nothing better to replace them with. Perhaps those folks are
> switching from GSM to CDMA.

Then for a rebuttal:

> Fair enough -- what I should have said was, "'There's nothing better to
> replace them with' as far as downlink speeds are concerned, which is what
> most users care about."

Sounds to me like someone that got caught flat-footed and is trying to
cover up their tracks.

Then he wrote:
> As far as reputation is concerned, I think Sony Ericsson has at least as
> good reputation as Sierra, if not better -- the GC8x-series is excellent.

Well, I don't have any hard evidence on whether Sony Ericsson's
reputation is as good or better than Sierra Wireless's. But I can say
that as a user of the GC83 card for the last 5 months, I would not call
it 'excellent'. I don't know if the problem is the card, the software,
the carrier, or a combination of all three. I use the card in
multiple cities and states. I frequently have to shutdown and restart
the software to regain my connection. Sometimes I can disconnect then
reconnect but more often I have to close the connection application,
restart it, then wait for it to find the network, then reconnect. This
procedure often takes 1-2 minutes.

Often times I can be browsing in a web forum, going from page to page
OK, then when I want to go to a different website, it can't be found.
I can try and try and try with no avail. Other times after several
tries it will finally find the web site. I have found that sometimes I
can go to www.google.com and it will find that site, then I can go to
the site I really want to go to. Strange. Some kind of DNS issue I'm
sure.

Generally speaking, I've found in rural areas the card works quite
well, but in metropolitan areas there can be big problems. I can get a
4 or 5 bar signal, get connected, and still can't do any browsing.
Other times I can get a 4 or 5 bar signal, and I cannot even connect.
Yet there have been times (in rural areas primarily) that I have had a
usable connection even with 1 bar.

All in all, I can say that I like it better than my Nextel service that
I used to have - mainly because the downloads are so much faster. When
I have a good connection, I have no complaints about the card, but
other times I find it's use very frustrating. I do think there are
still a lot of kinks in the system and in the software, and very much
room for improvement. Speed is valuable, but so is a reliable
connection valuable. Whether the Sierra card would actually work any
better, I can't say.

P.S. As I am trying to send this message, I have a 4-5 bar signal, but
I haven't been able to connect after several attempts. I know that
EVENTUALLY I will get a connection and get this message posted.

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In <1123535516.587003.68000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> on 8 Aug 2005
14:11:56 -0700, "GomJabbar" <dkbatson@earthlink.net> wrote:

>John Navas wrote:

>> Fair enough -- what I should have said was, "'There's nothing better to
>> replace them with' as far as downlink speeds are concerned, which is what
>> most users care about."
>
>Sounds to me like someone that got caught flat-footed and is trying to
>cover up their tracks.

I could say the same thing about you. Regardless, you are of course free
to think whatever you want.

>Then he wrote:
>> As far as reputation is concerned, I think Sony Ericsson has at least as
>> good reputation as Sierra, if not better -- the GC8x-series is excellent.
>
>Well, I don't have any hard evidence on whether Sony Ericsson's
>reputation is as good or better than Sierra Wireless's. But I can say
>that as a user of the GC83 card for the last 5 months, I would not call
>it 'excellent'. I don't know if the problem is the card, the software,
>the carrier, or a combination of all three. I use the card in
>multiple cities and states. I frequently have to shutdown and restart
>the software to regain my connection. Sometimes I can disconnect then
>reconnect but more often I have to close the connection application,
>restart it, then wait for it to find the network, then reconnect. This
>procedure often takes 1-2 minutes.

My GC82, with the latest firmware, managed by the latest Sony Ericsson
Wireless Manager software on Windows XP Pro SP2 and an IBM ThinkPad T30, has
been rock solid on Cingular. The only problems were due to occasional
Cingular service issues.

>Often times I can be browsing in a web forum, going from page to page
>OK, then when I want to go to a different website, it can't be found.
>I can try and try and try with no avail. Other times after several
>tries it will finally find the web site. I have found that sometimes I
>can go to www.google.com and it will find that site, then I can go to
>the site I really want to go to. Strange. Some kind of DNS issue I'm
>sure.

Perhaps, although it could easily be something else -- there's no way to know
for sure either way without actually checking (e.g., with a tool comparable to
'nslookup').

>Generally speaking, I've found in rural areas the card works quite
>well, but in metropolitan areas there can be big problems.

That doesn't make much sense.

>I can get a
>4 or 5 bar signal, get connected, and still can't do any browsing.

Why not? Have you done standard troubleshooting?

>Other times I can get a 4 or 5 bar signal, and I cannot even connect.

As indicated by what specifically?

>Yet there have been times (in rural areas primarily) that I have had a
>usable connection even with 1 bar.

Sure -- it's a darn good device.

>All in all, I can say that I like it better than my Nextel service that
>I used to have - mainly because the downloads are so much faster. When
>I have a good connection, I have no complaints about the card, but
>other times I find it's use very frustrating. I do think there are
>still a lot of kinks in the system and in the software, and very much
>room for improvement. Speed is valuable, but so is a reliable
>connection valuable. Whether the Sierra card would actually work any
>better, I can't say.

Are you more interested in dissing the GC83 and/or Cingular, or in fixing your
problem?

>P.S. As I am trying to send this message, I have a 4-5 bar signal, but
>I haven't been able to connect after several attempts. I know that
>EVENTUALLY I will get a connection and get this message posted.

The Sony Ericsson Wireless Manager can be easily configured to automatically
connect you to the network at startup, and then to maintain that connection
for as long as you want. If it fails to connect to the network (which is rare
in my experience), there's usually enough feedback to know what went wrong.
If it connects, and you still can't access the Internet, then something is
wrong other than the GC83. Additional troubleshooting can usually pinpoint
the problem.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

What I have to say in rebuttal to your diatribe is that I find my
problems are very much location based. Also, time of day plays an
important factor. Late at night when most people are in bed, is when I
have the fewest problems. During working hours is the worst.

Regarding rural vs metropolitan, it makes very much sense for 2
reasons. First of all there is a lot more traffic on the cellular
system. Second of all, there are phasing issues as the signal bounces
off buildings and such. You ever try to watch broadcast TV with an
antenna in a big city? You get a lot clearer picture a few miles out
of town (no ghosting). It is the same issue here.

See links below for more information:

http://wirelessreview.com/mag/wire [...] ng_static/

http://www.arcelect.com/Cell_Cellu [...] rength.htm

http://www.marconi.com/Home/custom [...] int.action

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In <1123551155.107278.315500@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> on 8 Aug 2005
18:32:35 -0700, "GomJabbar" <dkbatson@earthlink.net> wrote:

>What I have to say in rebuttal to your diatribe

Diatribe? Hardly. I'm leaving that territory to you.

>is that I find my
>problems are very much location based. Also, time of day plays an
>important factor. Late at night when most people are in bed, is when I
>have the fewest problems. During working hours is the worst.

Phase of the moon? Air temperature? Type of background music? Where will it
end?!

>Regarding rural vs metropolitan, it makes very much sense for 2
>reasons. First of all there is a lot more traffic on the cellular
>system.

What matters is load, not traffic.

>Second of all, there are phasing issues as the signal bounces
>off buildings and such. You ever try to watch broadcast TV with an
>antenna in a big city? You get a lot clearer picture a few miles out
>of town (no ghosting). It is the same issue here.

You're thinking of "multipath," but that's not really a factor when you have a
strong signal.

>See links below for more information:
>[SNIP]

Thanks, but I'm familiar with the technical issues, as reflected in the
information and help I tried to give you. But it seems that you'd rather
fight than fix (to paraphrase the old cig commercial).

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Howard Huntley wrote:
>>I am seeing a flood of GC83 cards on Ebay lately. What are users
>>replacing those cards with??

John Navas wrote:
> There's nothing better to replace them with. Perhaps those folks are
> switching from GSM to CDMA.

Hmmm. Why switch when these GC83 cards are:

John Navas wrote:
> the GC8x-series is excellent.

The cards may be fine or the network might be fine, but the end result
often leaves much to be desired.

I've described real world conditions that I experience. I use my GC83
card for hours a day. I am glad that I can use something like this to
access the internet. And I understand that this is a type of 'Bleeding
Edge Technology'. As such, I don't expect perfection. Rolling out the
network takes time, and I am hoping that conditions improve, to where I
have a reliable connection in more locations.

Perhaps a different card would work more reliably, or maybe nothing can
be done until Cingular's network upgrade has been completed in the
different locations that I use the service. Perhaps some areas will
never work well due to factors beyond what Cingular and the EDGE
technology can accomplish.

The Sony Ericsson GC83 card is not the 'Pie-In-The_Sky' solution that
you seem to imply.

John Navas wrote:
> Phase of the moon? Air temperature? Type of background music? Where
> will it end?!

Yeah, right.

My other beefs with the 'Cingular Connection Manager' software, I know
could be improved in a short time if Cingular was interested.
(1) No reset for when the card hangs due to loss of signal. The Sony
Ericsson Wireless Manager has this.
(2) When the signal is lost, it can take up to a minute before the
application to close when you click on the X in the upper right hand
corner.
(3) When you ask it to search for networks manually, after it finds the
network, you pick one, then it has to search for that network again.
Why can't it remember the info it just found?
(4) The image compression software included is incompatible with Norton
Antivirus 2004 and 2005. You can't download incoming e-mail from a pop
server unless you disable 'Scan incoming email' in Norton AV, or
uninstall the image compression software.
(5) Even though I told the Cingular Connection Manager software not to
have anything to do with my 802.1 WiFi adapter, if I have the adapter
disabled, a pop-up balloon with a sound pops-up every minute, annoying
me.
(6) The latest version of Cingular Connection Manager seems to have
crippled the option to manually choose the carrier (when this is
necessary). The button is still there, but it doesn't work.
--------
Other than that, the software is OK.

You do provide a service on this forum for many users, and that's fine
by me. But acting like everything is the end users problem, and not
Cingular's, leaves me suspect. By chance are you, or your wife, or
your relative employed by Cingular? If not, do you or they receive any
compensation from Cingular directly, indirectly or through the
'services' you provide as a second or third party?

BTW: I wasn't posting on this thread to get help, I was posting to
correct misconceptions.

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In <1123602458.968489.272530@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com> on 9 Aug 2005
08:47:39 -0700, "GomJabbar" <dkbatson@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Howard Huntley wrote:
>>>I am seeing a flood of GC83 cards on Ebay lately. What are users
>>>replacing those cards with??
>
>John Navas wrote:
>> There's nothing better to replace them with. Perhaps those folks are
>> switching from GSM to CDMA.
>
>Hmmm. Why switch when these GC83 cards are:
>
>John Navas wrote:
>> the GC8x-series is excellent.
>
>The cards may be fine or the network might be fine, but the end result
>often leaves much to be desired.

Not in my experience, and that of many others.

Subscribers may be switching carriers for other reasons, including price (the
most common reason), coverage in a given area (another common reason),
employer, plan features, etc.

>I've described real world conditions that I experience. I use my GC83
>card for hours a day. I am glad that I can use something like this to
>access the internet. And I understand that this is a type of 'Bleeding
>Edge Technology'. As such, I don't expect perfection. Rolling out the
>network takes time, and I am hoping that conditions improve, to where I
>have a reliable connection in more locations.
>
>Perhaps a different card would work more reliably, or maybe nothing can
>be done until Cingular's network upgrade has been completed in the
>different locations that I use the service. Perhaps some areas will
>never work well due to factors beyond what Cingular and the EDGE
>technology can accomplish.

Or perhaps you have problems that have nothing to do with the card or
Cingular. No way to know, since you seem more interested in bitchin' than in
fixin'.

>The Sony Ericsson GC83 card is not the 'Pie-In-The_Sky' solution that
>you seem to imply.

I never said it was, just that it's very good, and works very well.

>My other beefs with the 'Cingular Connection Manager' software,

So stop bitchin' and start fixin', by at least trying Sony Ericsson Wireless
Manager (as I've suggested a number of times) -- it's free, and works very
well. Also be sure to install the latest firmware in your card.

>You do provide a service on this forum for many users, and that's fine
>by me. But acting like everything is the end users problem, and not
>Cingular's, leaves me suspect.

I don't act like that -- I just call 'em as I see 'em. I recently posted a
report on a serious Cingular EGPRS(EDGE) problem here in Northern California
-- did you miss that? Or did you somehow see that as blaming end users?

>By chance are you, or your wife, or
>your relative employed by Cingular? If not, do you or they receive any
>compensation from Cingular directly, indirectly or through the
>'services' you provide as a second or third party?

I have no relationship to Cingular, direct or indirect, other than as a paying
customer.

>BTW: I wasn't posting on this thread to get help, I was posting to
>correct misconceptions.

In other words, venting. And what's the point of that? If your problems
could actually be fixed, then you're actually doing a disservice to others.
--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

FYI : I've been using Sony Ericsson's Wireless Manager for months, and
I got the tip from another user. Actually I have both Cingular
Connection Manager and Sony Ericsson's Wireless Manager both installed,
and I switch back and forth, depending upon the conditions where I am
at. Both programs have different pros and cons.

I don't cut Cingular as much slack as I probably would under normal
circumstances, but they did get on my bad side from the get go. See my
bitch list below:

(1) The phone salesmen told me conflicting information regarding Media
Net Unlimited and Laptop Connect when I was looking to buy service. I
wanted to know if I purchased a data capable phone and Media Net
Unlimited (about $25/mo), could I tether that phone to my laptop and
get unlimited internet service. I was told that was only available
with the Laptop Connect plan (about $80/mo). So I purchased a phone
and the GC83 card. From reading this forum however, it appears I could
be saving $55/mo by tethering my phone to my laptop with Media Net
Unlimited. Problem is, I have a 2-year contract.
(2) I told the phone saleman I wanted the phone and PC card sent to my
work address in another state. They ended up shipping the PC Card to
my home, and they got the address wrong for shipping to my work
address. I told the salesman Richmond Terrace, but he only wrote down
Richmond. It turns out there is a Richmond Avenue in the same area,
and FEDEX couldn't find the location on Richmond Avenue, because it
didn't exist. Fortunately I was able to get FEDEX (through Cingular)
to redirect the packages, but they were delayed.
(3) When I received the GC83 card, there was no software included, and
the only internet connection I had available was with my Nextel cell
phone. I tryed for several days to download the 25MB file, but I
couldn't maintain a connection long enough. Finally I had someone burn
it onto a CD for me and deliver it to my work address.
(4) So, about a week later I have the software, but the card wouldn't
work. It turns out the card was defective. So to get a new card I had
to let Cingular charge $249.99 to my credit card. They said I would be
refunded the money in 1-2 billing cycles after I received the card.
(5) Well they sent the card to my work address as requested, but the
return shipping label was sent to my house resulting in about a 2-week
delay for me to return the card.
(6) I finally received the money back for the credit card charge, 3-1/2
months after my card was charged. Most other vendors give their
customers a time window to return a defective item after the new one
has been shipped out, before charging the customer for the item.
Instead Cingular got to make money off of the float for 3-1/2 months
for a defective card that they sent me.
(7) All of the above entailed over 10 hours on the phone with Cingular
trying to get the various issues resolved. I would spend an hour being
redirected around before finally getting someone who could answer or
solve my problem. Often they redirected me to the same number that I
had just called some minutes before. Other times they gave me an
out-of-service number (from a phone company? go figure).
(8) My first bill comes, with no overages in any catagory, yet it is
over $500. This included the charge for the GC83 card and a Samsung
x427m basic no-frills phone. On the bill it says something like: Q.
Why is my bill so high? A. Not to worry this is just
because............ No one should be hit with a first bill this high,
when they don't choose high end hardware.
(9) Most of the other issues I have already stated earlier in this
thread.

So yeah, the above is 'Venting', but you drove me to it. The items in
the above list happened months ago, but I never laid them out for all
to see until now. And I don't see how you can or could have helped me
with the issues I have had or am having. In other words, you don't
have the horsepower to fix my problems. A Cingular technical engineer
or manager would be required for that.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

===============================================
* Reply by Jack D. Russell, Sr. <jackru$$ell2@notmail.com>
* Newsgroup: alt.cellular.cingular
* Reply to: All; "GomJabbar" <dkbatson@earthlink.net>
* Date:Tue, 9 Aug 2005 18:52:11 -0500
* Subj: Re: GC83 cards on Ebay
=====================================================

G>Howard Huntley wrote:
>>>I am seeing a flood of GC83 cards on Ebay lately. What are users
>>>replacing those cards with??

G>John Navas wrote:
>> There's nothing better to replace them with. Perhaps those folks
>> are switching from GSM to CDMA.

G>Hmmm. Why switch when these GC83 cards are:

G>John Navas wrote:
>> the GC8x-series is excellent.

G>The cards may be fine or the network might be fine, but the end
G>result often leaves much to be desired.

G>I've described real world conditions that I experience. I use my
G>GC83 card for hours a day. I am glad that I can use something like
G>this to access the internet. And I understand that this is a type
G>of 'Bleeding
G>Edge Technology'. As such, I don't expect perfection. Rolling out
G>the network takes time, and I am hoping that conditions improve, to
G>where I have a reliable connection in more locations.

G>Perhaps a different card would work more reliably, or maybe nothing
G>can be done until Cingular's network upgrade has been completed in
G>the different locations that I use the service. Perhaps some areas
G>will never work well due to factors beyond what Cingular and the
G>EDGE technology can accomplish.

G>The Sony Ericsson GC83 card is not the 'Pie-In-The_Sky' solution
G>that you seem to imply.

G>John Navas wrote:
>> Phase of the moon? Air temperature? Type of background music?
>> Where will it end?!

G>Yeah, right.

G>My other beefs with the 'Cingular Connection Manager' software, I
G>know could be improved in a short time if Cingular was interested.
G>(1) No reset for when the card hangs due to loss of signal. The
G>Sony
G>Ericsson Wireless Manager has this.
G>(2) When the signal is lost, it can take up to a minute before the
G>application to close when you click on the X in the upper right
G>hand corner.
G>(3) When you ask it to search for networks manually, after it finds
G>the network, you pick one, then it has to search for that network
G>again. Why can't it remember the info it just found?
G>(4) The image compression software included is incompatible with
G>Norton Antivirus 2004 and 2005. You can't download incoming e-mail
from a
G>pop server unless you disable 'Scan incoming email' in Norton AV,
G>or uninstall the image compression software.
G>(5) Even though I told the Cingular Connection Manager software not
G>to have anything to do with my 802.1 WiFi adapter, if I have the
G>adapter disabled, a pop-up balloon with a sound pops-up every
G>minute, annoying me.
G>(6) The latest version of Cingular Connection Manager seems to have
G>crippled the option to manually choose the carrier (when this is
G>necessary). The button is still there, but it doesn't work.
G>--------
G>Other than that, the software is OK.

G>You do provide a service on this forum for many users, and that's
G>fine by me. But acting like everything is the end users problem,
G>and not Cingular's, leaves me suspect. By chance are you, or your
wife, or
G>your relative employed by Cingular? If not, do you or they receive
G>any compensation from Cingular directly, indirectly or through the
G>'services' you provide as a second or third party?

BTW:: I wasn't posting on this thread to get help, I was posting to
G>correct misconceptions.

Different areas of the country, different cards/handsets and system
configurations can all be sources of contention. But the technology and
it's capabilities usually remain the same. Your conditions must be
different than John's, or maybe configured improperly. That's no reason
to doubt what he's trying to tell you. There must be some explanation
for your problems when his equipment works correctly, consistently and
yours doesn't. The carrier is the same, the technology is the same and
the equipment is basically the same. What's left?
While I know of no affiliation between John and CW, I do know that John
started this group, wrote the charter, did all of the work (alone) to
get this forum started for all of our benefits.
--
Jack

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In <1123630534.395566.319940@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com> on 9 Aug 2005
16:35:34 -0700, "GomJabbar" <dkbatson@earthlink.net> wrote:

>So yeah, the above is 'Venting', but you drove me to it.

No, you chose to do it.

>The items in
>the above list happened months ago, but I never laid them out for all
>to see until now. And I don't see how you can or could have helped me
>with the issues I have had or am having. In other words, you don't
>have the horsepower to fix my problems. A Cingular technical engineer
>or manager would be required for that.

You'll never know one way or the other.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

Jack D. Russell, Sr. wrote:
> I do know that John started this group, wrote the charter, did all of the work
> (alone) to get this forum started for all of our benefits.

I was not aware of that. That does explain his pro-Cingular stance.

I plan to leave this thread for now. I really don't have anything left
to say anyway.

Archived from groups: alt.cellular.cingular (More info?)

[POSTED TO alt.cellular.cingular - REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <1123654271.139096.103200@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com> on 9 Aug 2005
23:11:11 -0700, "GomJabbar" <dkbatson@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Jack D. Russell, Sr. wrote:
>> I do know that John started this group, wrote the charter, did all of the work
>> (alone) to get this forum started for all of our benefits.
>
>I was not aware of that. That does explain his pro-Cingular stance.

Hardly. I also publish webpages on SprintPCS/CDMA, which doesn't make me
pro-SprintPCS. You just see my evenhanded stance as pro-Cingular because you
don't like what I have to say.

>I plan to leave this thread for now. I really don't have anything left
>to say anyway.

Thanks.

--
Best regards, HELP FOR CINGULAR GSM & SONY ERICSSON PHONES:
John Navas <http://navasgrp.home.att.net/#Cingular>